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Author Topic: A Pope for our time?  (Read 23700 times)

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2014, 10:09:59 AM »
This would make a great mascot

When a significant % of people in our country believes this:



Is it really worth arguing between science and religion?

Henry Sugar

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2014, 10:27:52 AM »
This would make a great mascot


Yet another mascot better than Golden Eagles.
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

mu03eng

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2014, 10:28:17 AM »
Yet another mascot better than Golden Eagles.

There are so many.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2014, 10:35:21 AM »

You are missing his overall point as a scientist.  Science is about the pursuit of truth.  What is known today, may be different as addition knowns becomes known in the future.  Or a better way to put it, you don't stop the science.  You don't just put things in the case is closed book.  Now, he was speaking figuratively, of course, but the premise is absolutely correct.   Today, if I drop a ball, it will hit the ground due to gravity.  In 1000 years, that may not be the case because of influences we cannot predict. 

A quote that he would share.   

"Who would dare assert that we know all there is to be known?"
- Galileo


Stephen Hawking has talked about this many times.   “No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict the theory.  On the other hand, you can disprove a theory by finding even a single observation that disagrees with the predictions of the theory.”


We can go through 1000's of examples where science of the day said one thing, but ultimately turned out wrong.  Whether it is the mundane like margarine is better for you than butter, or using leaches to bleed you out, of people in a car going over 50mph would not be able to breathe due to a lack of oxygen, the earth being flat, so on and so forth.  And those conclusions may be wrong again, at some future time.

OK, ultimately what is your point?  Yes science can be wrong and evolves.  Religion can be wrong and should evolve.  If anyone accepts science or religion as incontrovertible fact, they are a fool.  Both disciplines serve a purpose, but one should not be exchanged for the other, they can and should co-exist.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Henry Sugar

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2014, 10:38:00 AM »
nm - not worth it
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mu03eng

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2014, 10:40:10 AM »
nm - not worth it

I think you should have stuck with it, you weren't wrong.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

reinko

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2014, 11:00:23 AM »
I think you should have stuck with it, you weren't wrong.

+1  But here is how it would have played out.

HS: Original Comment
CBB: Smarmy retort, with probably this emoticon,  ::)

Rinse & repeat, and then this.



Lennys Tap

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2014, 11:02:41 AM »

You are missing his overall point as a scientist.  Science is about the pursuit of truth. 

So is religion. And when a religion asks you to blindly accept things that defy reason and/or a functioning conscience one shouldn't be a lemming. That's not what constitutes a good Catholic.

tower912

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2014, 12:41:44 PM »
When a significant % of people in our country believes this:



Is it really worth arguing between science and religion?

http://creationmuseum.org/

Read it.....and weep.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

mu03eng

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2014, 01:05:19 PM »
+1  But here is how it would have played out.

HS: Original Comment
CBB: Smarmy retort, with probably this emoticon,  ::)

Rinse & repeat, and then this.




http://youtu.be/A8MO7fkZc5o
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

jesmu84

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2014, 01:59:19 PM »
Yeah, certainly something like Common Core or teachers that are unqualified but protected by Unions don't hamper it.  LOL

Oh, so exactly like I said when I stated "among thousands of other reason"? I literally stated there are many different reasons our education system is hampered. No, I didn't list them all, just pointed out the one that was already brought up. Yes, there are problems with unqualified teachers and unions and the Common Core. Teaching creationism in schools as fact is wrong. There is no disputing that. Plain and simple. You can argue all the other reasons. You cannot argue this one.

brandx

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2014, 02:54:32 PM »
Yeah, certainly something like Common Core or teachers that are unqualified but protected by Unions don't hamper it.  LOL

Can you even make it through one thread without bringing up your right-wing crap?

Are you not intelligent enough to discuss any issue without falling back on your cliches?

muwarrior69

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2014, 02:57:05 PM »
In my experiences, I have noticed that many of those who cling so tightly to science have but a superficial understanding of it.  They suffer from a strand of the Dunning-Kruger effect--they aren't aware of what they don't know.  At the risk of 'appealing to authority', I would recommend those who take modern science as gospel to take a look at the religious/philosophical beliefs of the academics in the natural sciences.  The number of theists (including deists) may surprise you. 

One other point to keep in mind is that there are some very outspoken scientists who are incredibly great at what they do.  They are experts in their respective fields.  However, they often go on talk shows, write books, etc., and they voice their personal, philosophical opinions on God, religion, the afterlife, etc.  When many of these scientists speak about such matters, they have tacitly removed their scientist hat and replaced it with their I-have-an-opinion hat.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who do not see the switch. 

Okay, one other point.  The Bible contains both real historical events and allegory.  Some passages in the Bible could be interpreted literally or figuratively; science can reveal how to interpret ambiguous scriptures.  This is one of the important roles of science, according to modern-day Roman Catholic doctrine (and historically, St. Augustine of Hippo). 

For example, after the destruction of the Tower of Babel, the Bible says (paraphrasing) that 'God dispersed the people among the four corners of the earth'.  Of course, some could interpret this to mean that the earth has four literal corners.  However, science reveals to us that we should interpret this passage figuratively.  Yet another example is the earth being created in six literal days.  For those painting religion with a broad brush, I would ask that you keep in mind that the majority of the people who believe in a 6,000 year old earth that was created in six 24 hour days are Protestants and Evangelicals.

Anyway, I could go on for hours.  For those who are truly curious about the interaction between science and religion, I would highly recommend visiting the Magis Center's website.  They have some good resources.

http://www.magiscenter.com/science-reason-faith/

It is run by Father Robert Spitzer, a Jesuit priest who is a physicist (cosmologist specifically, I believe) by trade and the former president of Gonzaga University.

thank you....just an amazing video.

Lennys Tap

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2014, 03:16:12 PM »
Can you even make it through one thread without bringing up your right-wing crap?

Are you not intelligent enough to discuss any issue without falling back on your cliches?

Those educated by FOX/MSNBC are taught never to stray from one's talking points.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2014, 01:23:01 AM »
When a significant % of people in our country believes this:



Is it really worth arguing between science and religion?

A significant number of people believe a certain former pres. made 9/11 happen in this country....on the flip side, a significant number of people believe the current guy is from another country.  You can always find a significant population that is out there on a topic.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2014, 01:27:07 AM »
Those educated by FOX/MSNBC are taught never to stray from one's talking points.

Brand is on ignore, but I laughed especially coming from him.

Personally, I read the NY Times, Wa Post, watch CNN, Fox, PBS, etc among others.  Just got done voting myself, happily voted...again....for people of different parties without batting an eye.  The parties suck, the talking points are lame, but continue with the false narrative if you wish Lenny....it's like a cliche fortune cookie and you just cracked one open.


MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2014, 02:08:25 PM »
Interestingly, 2 weeks at my cousins daughter's confirmation, in his homily the arch-bishop included that evolution as science tells us is correct and mentioned that even Pope JPII said so.

tower912

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2014, 02:10:35 PM »
That was being taught in my catholic grade school 35+ years ago.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Coleman

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2014, 05:35:07 PM »
That was being taught in my catholic grade school 35+ years ago.   

As it should have been.

Unfortunately we took a couple steps back with this "intelligent design" silliness. Thankfully that is not being pushed anymore.

Pakuni

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2014, 05:38:24 PM »
As it should have been.

Unfortunately we took a couple steps back with this "intelligent design" silliness. Thankfully that is not being pushed anymore.

The Catholic Church is not on board with intelligent design and, to the best of my knowledge, never has been.

Coleman

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2014, 05:41:56 PM »
The Catholic Church is not on board with intelligent design and, to the best of my knowledge, never has been.


Benedict flirted with it.

JPII spoke in favor of scientific theories such as the Big Bang and evolution. But Benedict was pretty wishy washy on scientific topics
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 05:45:28 PM by Bleutellenson »

noblewarrior

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2014, 05:48:04 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

The Catholic church has been all over the Big Bang Theory for awhile... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel

And genetics... ie Evolution
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 05:50:41 PM by noblewarrior »

Pakuni

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2014, 05:55:48 PM »
Benedict flirted with it.

JPII spoke in favor of scientific theories such as the Big Bang and evolution. But Benedict was pretty wishy washy on scientific topics

The Church declared intelligent design "not science" in 2006, about a year after Benedict's ascension. So, if he flirted with it, it wasn't for long, and it wasn't seriously.

Anyhow, timely subject, as Francis weighed in on evolution today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28/pope-francis-backs-theory-of-evolution-says-god-is-no-wizard/

Coleman

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Re: A Pope for our time?
« Reply #124 on: October 28, 2014, 10:16:11 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

The Catholic church has been all over the Big Bang Theory for awhile... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel

And genetics... ie Evolution

Yes, some great contributions over the years.

Don't forget about this guy, a Jesuit too

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin





 

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