Campus Expansion

[warriorchick]

I obviously agree that hoops exposure, by far, pays the most dividends for Marquette. But I also know that better facilities can attract great student/athletes who play soccer and lacrosse, and these are kids who normally would have looked elsewhere, that's all. And you'd be surprised at the checks that some of the Olympic sport parents are willing to write to support the school.

Or even Olympic Sports alum.  Last year I sat in front of a guy who was a track athlete back in the 60's (state HS champion in two different states in the same year - his family moved) and now he is considered one of the more important donors the school has. 

[moomoo]

Or even Carthage College.  Their sports facilities are amazing.

Yes, I did not mean to suggest it was for student athletes only. I am sure they will use it for practices during the colder months, but I envision it would be available to ALL of Marquette, which would be beneficial to the entire student body.

[jficke13]

UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.

If UW-O can have it, we should too.

[Litehouse]

I hope they find a better use for this land than a fieldhouse.  It would be nice if they could use the close proximity to downtown to do something that further connects MU to the downtown business community.  As others have mentioned, I think it would have been a better location for the law school.  A fieldhouse would be nice, but there's a lot of cheap land to the west that could be used for that purpose since the location wouldn't be as important.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.

If UW-O can have it, we should too.

Right, so if UW-O's facilities are so great, do a lot of kids chose it instead of MU?

I'm not saying that facilities aren't important, but I don't think they are a magic bullet that some people are making them out to be.

Capital improvements need to be measured against needs and long term planning.

They should not be built for marketing purposes. You want better marketing? Hire better marketers. Changing the box doesn't = more sales.

[jficke13]

I guess I wasn't making some sort of "if you build it they will come, just like they all go to UW-O" argument.

I was just pointing out that a non-flagship UW school has an absolutely spectacular facility. I'd like to think that we can/should be on at least equal ground with every state school in Wisconsin when it comes to facilities (excluding perhaps labs at UW-Madison, though if I had build a building $ to donate new labs would be the first thing I'd build at MU)

[Litehouse]

Are the Rec Center and Rec Plex really that far behind?  It's been at least 10 years since I've been in either facility, and over 15 years since I've used either regularly, but I thought they were decent at the time.  A better indoor running track would be nice, but there were plenty of bball courts and the weight/exercise machines all seemed up to date.  Also, is a new building necessary to for an upgrade?  Couldn't they just renovate the current facilities?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Are the Rec Center and Rec Plex really that far behind?  It's been at least 10 years since I've been in either facility, and over 15 years since I've used either regularly, but I thought they were decent at the time.  A better indoor running track would be nice, but there were plenty of bball courts and the weight/exercise machines all seemed up to date.  Also, is a new building necessary to for an upgrade?  Couldn't they just renovate the current facilities?

Theyre bad. Just because they are really small. Rec Center has nice tennis courts but 3/4 the time the tennis team has them. Basketball courts are fine but you can wait up to half an hour for a game in there. Rec Plex wright room is pretty awful and they have a small court and a really small court. Plex is fine the way it is because its on the complete east side of campus and not a lot of people venture out there but the rex center at least needs to be made bigger.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

However in response to other facilities, Marquette has started slowly but surely. The new interior in Marquette Hall and Sensenbrener are really really nice. New offices and everything. They are doing the same with Coughlin so that will be nice too. Exercise Science labs in Cramer are up to date but Chem, Bio, and Physics labs are pretty awful.

So in terms of offices, there has been a ton of work done and it has been really nice but for classrooms and labs, not so much besides the PT and exercise physiology department.

[Litehouse]

The entire block behind the Blood Center adjacent the Rec Center would seem like a better place for a fieldhouse or expanded rec center than this new piece of land.  Heck, they could even use the entire next block behind the dental school, close down 18th St., and make a massive facility spanning those 2 blocks.  There's not much else on that land.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I guess I wasn't making some sort of "if you build it they will come, just like they all go to UW-O" argument.

I was just pointing out that a non-flagship UW school has an absolutely spectacular facility. I'd like to think that we can/should be on at least equal ground with every state school in Wisconsin when it comes to facilities (excluding perhaps labs at UW-Madison, though if I had build a building $ to donate new labs would be the first thing I'd build at MU)

Yes and no for me.

I'm not sure a kick ass rec-center is central to MU's mission.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, but I'd put it father down the list than most people.

Facilities aren't what make the school.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The entire block behind the Blood Center adjacent the Rec Center would seem like a better place for a fieldhouse or expanded rec center than this new piece of land.  Heck, they could even use the entire next block behind the dental school, close down 18th St., and make a massive facility spanning those 2 blocks.  There's not much else on that land.

From the 500 and 600 blocks of 18th-20th street. (Behind the blood center for 2 blocks) There is only 1 apartment building, the childcare center and a parking lot that takes up an entire square block. Easily movable.

[MDMU04]

I was actually at a presentation by an economist the other day who said that college tuition should actually be rising faster.  That with the growing income difference between those with and without a college degree, that college tuition should actually be about 20% higher than it is right now.

He said that there are a number of factors that are preventing this.  First, is politics.  Second, is that parents pay a good portion of the college costs but don't participate in the economic benefits.  Third, are cash flow issues - he believes that the governments loan programs should be expanded significantly and that such expansion would be beneficial for both the borrower and the lender.

It was interesting to say the least.

Was the economist a professor at a university?

[GGGG]

Was the economist a professor at a university?

Adjunct.  Not his primary source of income.

[Texas Western]

UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.

If UW-O can have it, we should too.

I agree. Our facilities are an embarrassment. A fieldhouse would serve the entire campus and really help the Olympic Sports efforts. Winter is long and having a facilty like that would make a huge difference in attracting top flight kids.

[chapman]

Fieldhouse will actually enhance the economics of the school:

Better facilities, better recruits, better teams, better exposure ----> more kids who would not be interested in going to Marquette will now be willing to come, including many paying close to sticker price.

Additionally, many more donations to the school based on sports success.

Lastly, if you are not investing in the school, you are actually taking a step back. Status quo can never be an option.

Agree completely.  Not just athletes, but the entire student experience.  You can't keep the status quo and expect future students to want to come and live, attend class, work out all in sub par facilities.  These things attract more and more talented students, more alumni pride, more corporate interest...it's a great investment in the long run.


And as others have said, our Rec Center is a joke.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Agree completely.  Not just athletes, but the entire student experience.  You can't keep the status quo and expect future students to want to come and live, attend class, work out all in sub par facilities.  These things attract more and more talented students, more alumni pride, more corporate interest...it's a great investment in the long run.


And as others have said, our Rec Center is a joke.

I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.

The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?

Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.

[6746jonesr]

Expansion of the campus to add an arena is not going to add to the cost of tuition.  All new construction is paid for by donations, not student tuition.  This is a big difference between public and private schools.  A new building on a state college campus in Wisconsin will be paid for primarily by taxpayers (70%). 

[79Warrior]

I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.

The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?

Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.

Keeping up with facilities is the cost of doing business. I cannot tell you how many times my kids, as well as their friends, commented on that when they were looking at colleges. MU has to keep up.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Expansion of the campus to add an arena is not going to add to the cost of tuition.  All new construction is paid for by donations, not student tuition.  This is a big difference between public and private schools.  A new building on a state college campus in Wisconsin will be paid for primarily by taxpayers (70%). 

No free lunches.

Those donations could be used for other things, like payroll, tuition, operating costs, etc.

Now, maybe some of those donations do not come without a specific capital campaign, but still, the buildings aren't "free" just because a donor gives you a check.

As far as the "cost of doing business", I'm not saying that MU can just stand still and never improve, but there seems to be a lot of "Ya! Build it!" going on in this thread, with little regard for what that means in the big picture.

We lament when MU tears down a bar and builds campus apartments, but then we want them to tear down a rec center just so they can have a newer one? Maybe just a remodel/refresh would be enough?

The school has experienced tremendous growth in the past 20 years, and it should continue to grow... but cranking out a bunch of new buildings is not "marketing", and should not be viewed in such a manner.

[Brewtown Andy]

From the 500 and 600 blocks of 18th-20th street. (Behind the blood center for 2 blocks) There is only 1 apartment building, the childcare center and a parking lot that takes up an entire square block. Easily movable.

The parking lots on 18th and 19th serve the dental school clinic patients and the dental school students and faculty.  Essentially unmovable.

There are three apartment buildings between 18th & 20th, plus Miss Katie's.

If we're talking about a fieldhouse facility, we're talking about something that's multiple football/soccer/lacrosse fields in length or width.

[StillAWarrior]

I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.

The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?

Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.

I think a couple of key questions in all of this are:  What is happening with Marquette's applications?  What is happening with the overall quality of students?


Like a lot of others on here, I think capital projects are great.  I've been visiting a lot of campuses in the past year and I suspected that Marquette had fallen behind because there hadn't been new dorms or rec center since when I was there (I hadn't heard about McCabe).  Other colleges have beautiful new dorms and rec centers.

But, if the answer to the questions above are that both are going up (more applications and higher quality of students), I don't necessarily buy into the knee-jerk "we have to build to be competitive" response.  Marquette certainly cannot let its facilities fall into disrepair, but if they're still getting high numbers of good students, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they must build new dorms or a new rec center.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

No free lunches.

We lament when MU tears down a bar and builds campus apartments, but then we want them to tear down a rec center just so they can have a newer one? Maybe just a remodel/refresh would be enough?

One of the two buildings in your analogy was beloved; the other seemingly has never had a good word said about it. 

[muarmy81]

I think a couple of key questions in all of this are:  What is happening with Marquette's applications?  What is happening with the overall quality of students?


Like a lot of others on here, I think capital projects are great.  I've been visiting a lot of campuses in the past year and I suspected that Marquette had fallen behind because there hadn't been new dorms or rec center since when I was there (I hadn't heard about McCabe).  Other colleges have beautiful new dorms and rec centers.

But, if the answer to the questions above are that both are going up (more applications and higher quality of students), I don't necessarily buy into the knee-jerk "we have to build to be competitive" response.  Marquette certainly cannot let its facilities fall into disrepair, but if they're still getting high numbers of good students, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they must build new dorms or a new rec center.

A lot of universities are "refreshing" their student rec centers.  Our company is finishing up our 3rd such facility in Texas and recently hosted officials from about 50 universities in the US who are looking at updating or building entirely new rec centers...seems to be the "in" thing to do at the moment.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

One of the two buildings in your analogy was beloved; the other seemingly has never had a good word said about it. 

I understand the sentimentally, but from a practicality standpoint, the new apartments were a significant upgrade for MU. Tearing down the rec center to simply build a new rec center seems like a minor upgrade at best.