Campus Expansion

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Do the math.

Marquette tuition and fees are about $36,000 per year.  If you get a $12,000 Ignatius scholarship (relatively common) and graduate in 4 years, that's a net cost for your degree of $98,000.

If you are a science, engineering, or business major at U of I, in-state tuition and fees are about $20,500.  Multiply that by 5 years and that is a net cost of $102,500.  Add the opportunity cost of not having a full-time professional job that fifth year and you are approaching $150,000.

Room and board costs are similar between the two institutions, FWIW.

As far as your second point, I was talking about freshman enrollment, not graduate school.  Kids are coming from China and are taking up undergrad business and engineering spots.  In the past decade, U of I undergrad enrollment has gone from 90% in-state residents to a little over 70%.

Is this apples to apples though?

If a kid is getting a scholarship at MU, isn't that kid likely to receive some sort of scholarship at UofI?

[🏀]

The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.

4 years at Marquette - 144,000

5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000

Where, exactly, is the cost savings?

I'm not interested in your situation in Illinois, but it sounds like another example of a state with out of control finances. Good luck to you with that.

chick's point is you rarely pay the sticker price at Marquette, while you almost certainly pay the sticker at the public universities.

That being said, UoI's tuition is much higher than the average B1G school, but those behind will quickly catch up. UoI charges additional tuition to the sciences, engineering and business majors because those are their strengths, smart.

[warriorchick]

The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.

4 years at Marquette - 144,000

5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000

Where, exactly, is the cost savings?

I'm not interested in your situation in Illinois, but it sounds like another example of a state with out of control finances. Good luck to you with that.

Since 1/3 of Marquette students are from Illinois, it's pretty relevant.

And thanks to my Jesuit education, I can make a salient point without resorting to being a rude a$$hole.

[RJax55]

Is this apples to apples though?

If a kid is getting a scholarship at MU, isn't that kid likely to receive some sort of scholarship at UofI?

Most likely, no. The majority of scholarships that MU gives (and most private schools) are in realty a tuition discount. The model is extremely similar to buying a car. There's the sticker price, then after a series of discounts, the actual price.

Public schools do not use this model, or if they do, it is not to the same degree as private institutions. The grades and test scores that the average admitted student brings to the table to receive a scholarship at MU, would almost in all cases, received no scholarship support at UofI, or another comparable public school.

[StillAWarrior]

If this continues, many smart people will go to an in-state school. It is inevitable.

We're facing this situation right now.  My wife and I made the decision to send our kids to private elementary school and high school.  Obviously, with four kids, this has been and continues to be a significant investment.  It's very difficult to calculate ROI on this because it gets into a lot of intangibles, but I wouldn't change it.  However, it will have an effect on the money available for college.

But now we're looking at colleges for the first time.  When I attended college, I never even considered any public schools.  With my son, he's got one public school right at the top of his list (Miami) along with several privates (Elon, Kenyon, Dayton, ND, Georgetown, Catholic U).  Fortunately, we've got a couple of good state schools in Ohio.  Miami happens to be tied with Marquette in the US News rankings.  At this point, if one of the several privates my son likes comes through with a great merit-based package, he might go there.  If not, he'll likely go to Miami.  And I'm comfortable with that because it's a great school.  Frankly, I'd be very surprised if any of the privates he's considering comes up with a package that would bring the cost down to where it's competitive with Miami.  Maybe one will surprise me.  I hope so, if only to give some good options.

[Groin_pull]

Who are these mythical thin drunk MU chicks you speak of?

On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish MU dudes are.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

And thanks to my Jesuit education, I can make a salient point without resorting to being a rude a$$hole.

Nah, your "do the math" comment suggests you can't. I gave you the math. Deal with it.

Besides, this whole "sticker price" thing is a joke. Let's say a student gets an Ignatius scholarship. Wow, it's now $24,000 in tuition versus $10,000! What a bargain!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This hasn't been a problem yet, for the university. Applications are at an all-time high.

It seems like there's a lot of noise being created around a "problem" that may not exist quite yet for Marquette.

This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.

The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.

I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans.  You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.

I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?

So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.

All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.

[warriorchick]

On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish sober MU dudes are.

FIFY

[River rat]

This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.

The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.

I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans.  You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.

I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?

So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.

All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!!

[StillAWarrior]

The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.

4 years at Marquette - 144,000

5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000

Where, exactly, is the cost savings?

Looking at Miami in Ohio

No Merit-Based Cash:

Miami - $57,000 ($14,250 x 4 years)
Marquette - $144,000


With 3.5 GPA and 32+ on the ACT:

Miami - $28,500 ($7,125 x 4 years)
Marquette - ????


I'm hopeful that some schools will offer my son a good merit-based program.  As I mentioned in another post, I'd be surprised if it brings the cost down low enough to be competitive with Miami on that basis.

[tower912]

My daughter is in her sophomore year of college.    She decided on her major during high school and we went college shopping based on her intended major.  (Occupational Therapy).    There is one major Midwest Catholic university that offers it.   Xavier.   She applied to and was accepted there.   They immediately offered her $17k off of their $40k tuition/room-board rate.   She opted to go to a directional MAC school that had gave her a $4500 merit based scholarship and nothing else.   My wife and I pledged to continue paying what he had paid per year to put her through Catholic schools.   Because of the state school being less than half of what Xavier cost to begin with, she will need no loans until her 4th year, when she starts working on her masters while simultaneously finishing her bachelors.   She will likely leave college with only a Ford Focus worth of debt, instead of a BMW 3 series worth.   After 12 years of catholic school, she chose the state school based on her own cost-benefit analysis.      A cautionary tale for MU.  

If I had been able to persuade her to change her plans for her major....one of the state schools here will give 4 years of free tuition for a high school GPA higher than 3.9 or an ACT score higher than 29.    She had both. 

[PBRme]

Nah, your "do the math" comment suggests you can't. I gave you the math. Deal with it.

Besides, this whole "sticker price" thing is a joke. Let's say a student gets an Ignatius scholarship. Wow, it's now $24,000 in tuition versus $10,000! What a bargain!

On a percentage basis if you add in Room and Board and income in the fifth year instead of tuition and more Room and Board in the Fifth year I think you will find the numbers come out more equal than you are stating.

25 X 5 = 125000 Tuition Room and Board UW-Mad
(51 x 4)-50 = 154000 Tuition Room and Board MU

[StillAWarrior]

My daughter is in her sophomore year of college.    She decided on her major during high school and we went college shopping based on her intended major.  (Occupational Therapy).    There is one major Midwest Catholic university that offers it.   Xavier.   She applied to and was accepted there.   They immediately offered her $17k off of their $40k tuition/room-board rate.   She opted to go to a directional MAC school that had gave her a $4500 merit based scholarship and nothing else.   My wife and I pledged to continue paying what he had paid per year to put her through Catholic schools.   Because of the state school being less than half of what Xavier cost to begin with, she will need no loans until her 4th year, when she starts working on her masters while simultaneously finishing her bachelors.   She will likely leave college with only a Ford Focus worth of debt, instead of a BMW 3 series worth.   After 12 years of catholic school, she chose the state school based on her own cost-benefit analysis.      A cautionary tale for MU.  

Aside from the focus on the major, that is very similar to what we're looking at in my house.  My son is a smart kid and sees what college costs.  We haven't specifically told him what we can or will spend, but like your daughter he's doing a cost-benefit analysis and just doesn't see the benefit of the private schools.  There are a couple privates he really likes, and he'd love for them to offer enough money that the cost-benefit makes sense, but he's not counting on it.

[4everwarriors]

Back in the day, I was able to pay my tuition entirely with a summer job's earnin's. Kids today, don't have that luxury, aina?

[Lennys Tap]

On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish MU dudes are.

I can only speak for myself - 4 South Schroeder freshman and sophomore years, 932 N 18th as a junior, 23rd and Wisconsin (the not very aptly named Camelot East Apts) senior year.

[jsglow]

Looking at Miami in Ohio

No Merit-Based Cash:

Miami - $57,000 ($14,250 x 4 years)
Marquette - $144,000


With 3.5 GPA and 32+ on the ACT:

Miami - $28,500 ($7,125 x 4 years)
Marquette - ????


I'm hopeful that some schools will offer my son a good merit-based program.  As I mentioned in another post, I'd be surprised if it brings the cost down low enough to be competitive with Miami on that basis.

Assuming your GPA includes the 'extra' point for AP/Honors classes (truly a 5 pt scale), I'd estimate a MU scholly at $10-$12K range per year assuming all the nice resume items.  By way of comparison, Butler's scholly for that might be $15K.  We typically lag the competition and that's an issue related to the endowment.

[StillAWarrior]

Assuming your GPA includes the 'extra' point for AP/Honors classes (truly a 5 pt scale), I'd estimate a MU scholly at $10-$12K range per year assuming all the nice resume items.  By way of comparison, Butler's scholly for that might be $15K.  We typically lag the competition and that's an issue related to the endowment.

Thanks for the information.  We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect.  We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do.  As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction.  They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36).  I find that surprising.  I'm not sure what they consider rigorous.  Would four AP be rigorous?  6?  IB?  Just not sure what to expect.

[Litehouse]

The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.

4 years at Marquette - 144,000

5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000

Where, exactly, is the cost savings?

Chick compared Business/Engineering majors.  At UW, tuition and fees for Business is $12,547 and Engineering is $12,947.
https://registrar.wisc.edu/tuition_&_fees.htm

At MU, tuition and fees for Business/Engineering majors is $35,930 for up to 19 credits.
http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/bursar/2014-15tuitionandhousingfees.shtml

Plus, she mentioned the greater availability of scholarships/aid.  A $12,000/year St. Ignatius scholarship at MU would be common for a kid choosing between MU and UW.  So for Business/Engineering it would be $23,930 with the scholarship.

4 years at MU = $95,720
5 years at UW = $64,735 (Engineering)
5 years at UW = $62,735 (Business)

Include a first year salary of $50,000+ and the MU grad comes out ahead after 5 years.

[warriorchick]

Thanks for the information.  We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect.  We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do.  As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction.  They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36).  I find that surprising.  I'm not sure what they consider rigorous.  Would four AP be rigorous?  6?  IB?  Just not sure what to expect.

Is you avatar from your son's school?  Marquette has a program where they award a half-tuition scholarship to one student from each of the Jesuit high schools in the US:
http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-jesuit.php

All you have to do now is talk all the other kids at his school out of applying to Marquette and yours is golden.

[jsglow]

Thanks for the information.  We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect.  We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do.  As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction.  They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36).  I find that surprising.  I'm not sure what they consider rigorous.  Would four AP be rigorous?  6?  IB?  Just not sure what to expect.

StillA, it'll all make sense when you go through the process as you set the offers down side by side.  Funny, my kids were both excited about the big fancy acceptance letter.  I waited for the scholly letter that typically followed one to four weeks later.  We were blessed in the fact that no offer was so superior to another that it drove our kids' decision.  It truly would have been disappointing if our kids were forced to go somewhere they weren't keen on.  That said, we did leave dollars on the table when they chose Marquette.  But at least we get to cheer for the same basketball team!

[🏀]

StillAWarrior, you'll get $10k-15K easily from MU, especially if your son is coming from a Jezzy.

[🏀]

Chick compared Business/Engineering majors.  At UW, tuition and fees for Business is $12,547 and Engineering is $12,947.
https://registrar.wisc.edu/tuition_&_fees.htm

At MU, tuition and fees for Business/Engineering majors is $35,930 for up to 19 credits.
http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/bursar/2014-15tuitionandhousingfees.shtml

Plus, she mentioned the greater availability of scholarships/aid.  A $12,000/year St. Ignatius scholarship at MU would be common for a kid choosing between MU and UW.  So for Business/Engineering it would be $23,930 with the scholarship.

4 years at MU = $95,720
5 years at UW = $64,735 (Engineering)
5 years at UW = $62,735 (Business)

Include a first year salary of $50,000+ and the MU grad comes out ahead after 5 years.

The fifth year is crucial for both earned income and tuition, but more importantly, talking with other recruiters in my field everyone notes a MU engineering student is coming out in four years. That usually means they busted their ass to get their degree with maximum credit semesters, which has translated into the real world.

[forgetful]

Excellent point. Same thing happening at Cal-Berkeley.

In addition to the Chinese students, the new big thing is recruiting from Saudi Arabia, the government is strongly advocating for increased science education and will pay full tuition for their students.

In both countries, the cost of an American Education is a drop in the bucket…cheap compared to their salaries and costs of living, so they'll gladly pay full tuition.

[warriorchick]

In addition to the Chinese students, the new big thing is recruiting from Saudi Arabia, the government is strongly advocating for increased science education and will pay full tuition for their students.

Is Saudi Arabia sending over any female students?