A Tragic Untold Story

[keefe]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gov't has made people mentally ill

[GGGG]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental overall health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

FIFY.

[Skatastrophy]

FIFY.

It's more profitable to treat issues as they arise than it is to resolve problems permanently.

[brandx]

It's more profitable to treat issues as they arise than it is to resolve problems permanently.

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

[warriorchick]

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

Unfortunately, you can't force treatment on someone who doesn't want it.  A large number of mentally ill people who are prone to violence think they are fine.

[brandx]

Unfortunately, you can't force treatment on someone who doesn't want it.  A large number of mentally ill people who are prone to violence think they are fine.

You're right, but that still leaves a lot of people who could be helped.

[Skatastrophy]

Mental help for those that need it is staggeringly more cost effective than imprisoning (or executing) the mentally ill.

Industries have been built off of imprisoning mentally ill people instead of getting them help. Our approach won't change anytime soon.

[mu_hilltopper]

Curious question .. does anyone know about how other countries do better/worse on mental illness issues?  France, Canada, Mexico .. Estonia, Russia, China, India?

[MU82]

Whenever there is a mass shooting we tend to focus on gun control. But a more fundamental issue is this nation's management of mental health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/01/government-has-failed-the-mentally-ill.html

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

[keefe]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

There is a huge difference between mental illness and profound stupidity, 82. Unfortunately.

[brandx]

Industries have been built off of imprisoning mentally ill people instead of getting them help. Our approach won't change anytime soon.

The worst of both worlds - for-profit schools and for-profit prisons.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

I think that is what is referred to as "Freedumb".

[brandx]

I of course agree with you, keefer.

Having said that, I'm still trying to figure out who the mentally ill person was (or people were) leading to the 9-year-old girl learning how to shoot an Uzi.

Really! 4 adults and not a single, working brain between them.

If she would have shot the other 3 (her parents and the range owner), I would argue she was the smart one

[Lennys Tap]

The worst of both worlds - for-profit schools and for-profit prisons.

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

[brandx]

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

The Japanese look at these things quite a bit different than we do.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Check out the latest from The Atlantic.  What a fabulous magazine.


The Future of College?

A brash tech entrepreneur thinks he can reinvent higher education by stripping it down to its essence, eliminating lectures and tenure along with football games, ivy-covered buildings, and research libraries. What if he's right?

By Graeme Wood
August 13, 2014
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/08/the-future-of-college/375071/

[keefe]

My son is the principal at an international school in Tokyo. It's a for profit. The learning environment and their results are spectacular.

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

[keefe]

Check out the latest from The Atlantic.  What a fabulous magazine.

I have been a devoted reader for decades. I couldn't agree more, Nutmeg!

[tower912]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.  It was decided to treat the vast majority in an outpatient fashion.  
    So many times, we will respond to a homeless person passed out on the sidewalk.   They have been drinking, which completely neutralizes the psychotropic drugs, the anti-seizure medications, which if taken regularly and correctly, can make it possible for these poor souls to function nearly normally.     There are places they can go for shelter, for help with their medications, for all sorts of assistance.   But to go to them means a perceived loss of independence.   Many would prefer to live in their camps, under their bridges, in their culverts, than submit to the rules and regulations and go through the pain of fighting their addictions.   I am not saying this as a part of any study, these are things that members of the homeless have said to me.   There are no easy, one-size-fits-all answers.  But doing nothing isn't working, either.  

[keefe]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.  It was decided to treat the vast majority in an outpatient fashion.  
    So many times, we will respond to a homeless person passed out on the sidewalk.   They have been drinking, which completely neutralizes the psychotropic drugs, the anti-seizure medications, which if taken regularly and correctly, can make it possible for these poor souls to function nearly normally.     There are places they can go for shelter, for help with their medications, for all sorts of assistance.   But to go to them means a perceived loss of independence.   Many would prefer to live in their camps, under their bridges, in their culverts, than submit to the rules and regulations and go through the pain of fighting their addictions.   I am not saying this as a part of any study, these are things that members of the homeless have said to me.   There are no easy, one-size-fits-all answers.  But doing nothing isn't working, either.  

I am sure you have a much better perspective since you and your men deal with this on a very personal level. My exposure is seeing these poor souls at many intersections around Bellevue and Redmond - upper middle to exclusive areas. I mention that as Seattle has cracked down aggressively on homeless panhandling and squatting which has caused them to come east across the bridges. Most churches in Bellevue, mine among them, allow the homeless to camp on the grounds, offer prepared meals, and take in a number of people once the weather turns.

I work in the kitchen a couple times a month and it clear that most men are mentally unstable while women with children are victims of abuse. It is hard to not feel a sense of anger that amidst so much material wealth we have citizens crawling in the dirt.

[77ncaachamps]

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

That pretty much sums it up.

Teachers and school holds the kids accountable.

But it's the parents, by holding their children accountable, reinforce the importance of playing well, following directions, etc.

[MU82]

I am not taking issue, Mr Bernstein. In fact, I am a huge fan of international schools. I went through them as did my children. I think the structural differences with International schools are compelling guarantors of success:

- Cost: Tuition at International schools run about $30K. Capital Debentures are an equal amount. Other fees add in another $5K.  All in it costs almost $70K a year to put a kid through an international school. MNCs pick up the tab for this and it is an expected cost of stationing an expat in a foreign market. As such, corporations usually select their very best for these assignments. And corporations want no problems with dependent children during an assignment because they want the Expat to have a laser focus on his professional responsibilities.

- Parents: Because parents are typically highly motivated, well educated, successful people they tend to impart those same values in their children. There are no indigent parents at International Schools.

- Faculty and staff: International schools pay much better and offer expat perks to staff. This tends to attract not just the best but from a global pool of open-minded, adventuresome people. Who better to expand the horizons of the young than people with a dedicated sense of enterprise and curiosity?

- Student body: My kids have stayed in touch with friends from throughout Asia, Europe, Aus, and Latin America. And they do so in common third languages. A huge part of the international school experience is the life long friendships children make with others from around the globe.

I think many of these same factors support the success enjoyed by private schools in the US. Many on this board went through parochial programs which led them to Marquette and professional success.

But I'm not convinced that for-profit education can lay claim to these criteria. I know that at the tertiary level, for profit education is a travesty. Does anyone take seriously a degree from Phoenix, AIU, Argosy, or any of the hundreds of other similar for profit enterprises? 

This sounds very similar to the private schools in Chicago that I know a lot about because my kids knew some of those kids from rec-league and travel-team sports.

I mean, kids at Chicago Latin had parents paying 30K and everybody was motivated and they all went to great colleges.

Money buys a lot, no matter the enterprise. Including education all the way from preschool through law school.

[brandx]

As one who has spent many years working with the homeless in my community.....    Mental illness is a huge element among the homeless population.   A generation or two ago, many of the homeless would have been housed in old-school mental hospitals/sanitariums.    It was decided that it was too expensive and led to horrific living conditions.    

One month prior to the 1980 election, President Carter had signed the Mental Health Systems Act, which had proposed to continue the federal community mental health centers program, with some additional state involvement. But when President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried. The CMHC program had not only died but been buried as well.

Proving that karma does exist, two months after taking office, Reagan was shot by John Hinckley, a young man with untreated schizophrenia. Reagan was also exposed to the consequences of untreated mental illness through the two sons of Roy Miller, his personal tax advisor. Both sons developed schizophrenia; one committed suicide in '81, and the other killed his mother in '83. Despite such personal exposure, Reagan never exhibited any interest in the need for study or better treatment for serious mental illness.

In other words, Mental illness was treated the same by Reagan as the AIDS epidemic -- WHO CARES

[tower912]

I know all of that, but I chose to not politicize it.