Musings on Marquette Recruiting

[ChicosBailBonds]

ummm,  the lie created by Tom Cream lives on.  Dwade was extremely highly regarded.  While not highly recruited due to the fact that the Big 5 conferences did not allow scholarships under the old prop 48 rule.  Lesser conferences did, hence MU was one of the biggest names available to recruit a Dwade while other were not going to recruit what they couldnt have. 

You are correct that some conferences did not allow scholarships for prop 48.  You are incorrect about saying Wade was extremely highly regarded.  The recruiting services ranked kids regardless of whether they were Prop 48 or not, and Wade only got one great rating and a bunch of average ratings.   The ratings could not care less about prop 48, they base it on talent level.  You're mixing two things to push your agenda Robby.

[brandx]

Wade was #101 - RSCI

[MuMark]

Wade was #101 - RSCI

Since RSCI only goes to 100 that is some pretty inside info you have obtained....


https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2000-final

[MU82]

Not to repeat myself (much), but ...

I am friendly with one-time top Illinois recruiter Rob Judson (yeah, I know, you're happy for me), and he told me back then (and has repeated it since) that the Illini knew Wade would be an outstanding college player, as did most other major programs in the Midwest.

Let's not pretend that Wade was some mystery who emerged from nowhere, a la Robert Redford in The Natural. Wade might not have been ranked by the services, but he was ranked in the minds of D1 coaches.

[brandx]

Since RSCI only goes to 100 that is some pretty inside info you have obtained....


https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2000-final

You're right. I read the chart wrong. RSCI had him listed as #101 for most of the services (anyone not in the top 100 was listed at #101). They had one service listing him at #55.

But it may have been the worst HS class ever. Other than Wade, the best players were Zac Randolph, Luke Ridnour, Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, and Jameer Nelson.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not to repeat myself (much), but ...

I am friendly with one-time top Illinois recruiter Rob Judson (yeah, I know, you're happy for me), and he told me back then (and has repeated it since) that the Illini knew Wade would be an outstanding college player, as did most other major programs in the Midwest.

Let's not pretend that Wade was some mystery who emerged from nowhere, a la Robert Redford in The Natural. Wade might not have been ranked by the services, but he was ranked in the minds of D1 coaches.

Don't think anyone is disputing this, but the rating services don't hedge based on whether he will be a prop 48 or not.  They rate based on talent.  There are plenty of guys over the years they have rated in the top 100 that had to go to prep school or were prop 48's or would have been academically ineligible so they went straight to the pro's. 

Yes, some coaches noted his talent.  Many didn't.  Some conferences didn't allow it, but unlike Robby River Rat's claim, many did.  In his own state....Purdue, for example....Glenn Big Dog Robinson was a Prop 48.  Notre Dame had Tony Rice, Prop 48 for football. 

[keefe]

emerged from nowhere, a la Robert Redford in The Natural

Actually, Redford toiled in the minors for a decade until he was called up to play for George Roy Hill. Hill paired Redford with perennial All Star Paul Newman and the two formed one of the Big's best batteries for years.

But you get a lot of credit for the Malamud reference. Stellar writer.

[swoopem]

Yes, some coaches noted his talent.  Many didn't.  Some conferences didn't allow it, but unlike Robby River Rat's claim, many did.  In his own state....Purdue, for example....Glenn Big Dog Robinson was a Prop 48.  Notre Dame had Tony Rice, Prop 48 for football. 

I met Tony Rice in a bar last year during the elite 8. I was wearing MU gear and he came up to talk to me because his daughter had just graduated from MU. He was a real nice guy, but he did drop his name and mentioned he was a Heisman finalist at ND to see if I recognized him...which I did. No class ring and picking of the nose, but Al woulda got a kick outta it.

[MU82]

Don't think anyone is disputing this, but the rating services don't hedge based on whether he will be a prop 48 or not.  They rate based on talent.  There are plenty of guys over the years they have rated in the top 100 that had to go to prep school or were prop 48's or would have been academically ineligible so they went straight to the pro's. 

Yes, some coaches noted his talent.  Many didn't.  Some conferences didn't allow it, but unlike Robby River Rat's claim, many did.  In his own state....Purdue, for example....Glenn Big Dog Robinson was a Prop 48.  Notre Dame had Tony Rice, Prop 48 for football. 

I agree with all of this, though I am guessing that far more coaches, especially those who recruited Chicago at all, knew how good Wade was than not.

[The Equalizer]

You are correct that some conferences did not allow scholarships for prop 48.  You are incorrect about saying Wade was extremely highly regarded.  The recruiting services ranked kids regardless of whether they were Prop 48 or not, and Wade only got one great rating and a bunch of average ratings.   The ratings could not care less about prop 48, they base it on talent level.  You're mixing two things to push your agenda Robby.

Three other things to keep in mind.

First, Wade signed with MU long before anyone knew that he would be Prop 48. The comments on the board here were hopeful he'd pull a qualifying score on the ACT right up to the last test date following his senior season. There were no league rules that would have restricted signing an academically risky player--the rules prohibited that player enrolling.  In November of his senior year, nobody knew whether he'd qualify as a frosh or not.

Second, there were no such league restrictions on the likes of Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, etc.  Even if UNC or Duke chose to pass due to academic risk that Wade would fail to meet league minimums, Huggins and Pitino could still have gone after Wade. Yet, they passed as well.

Third, even AFTER Wade's senior season, he was only voted 7th for Illinois Mr. Basketball. And he improved his standing significantly during his senior year. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

True, he was not an RSCI top 100 player. He had big time problems at home (Mom went to jail and he had to move in with his Dad) and in the classroom. Many services overlooked him, but he blew up his senior year (scored like 81 points in a 2 game Christmas tournament) and Bob Gibbons had him at 55 in his spring rankings. Couldn't play his freshmen year, but reports were he dominated senior star Brian Wardle in practice and wowed the Bucks players in pick up games. Nobody who really followed MU hoops was at all surprised when he starred from day one his sophomore year.

Don't disagree at all with this either

[MuMark]

He didn’t start on his AAU team IIRC.

[Skatastrophy]

He didn’t start on his AAU team IIRC.

He was the 5th best player in IL his senior year, playing for the Illinois Warriors.

http://www.basketballworld.faithweb.com/2000/

Among those who took notice was Larry Butler, coach of the AAU Illinois Warriors. Already the state’s top amateur squad, the Warriors boasted a roster that included future pro and college stars Darius Miles, T.J. Cummings, Matt Lottich, and a good buddy of Dwyane’s, Odartey Blankson. Butler wanted a player to complement Miles, and Dwyane was the perfect fit. No only could he could run the break, he could also start it with a rebound and finish it with a twisting lay-up. (Dwyane didn’t start dunking until his senior year at Richards.)

Playing with the Warriors earned Dwyane the one thing he truly needed: exposure. To this point, college scouts barely knew he existed. Now they were checking their programs to find out about the rock-solid swingman. His biggest moments came during the Nike Peach Jam. Though never the dominant player of the floor, Dwyane displayed a knack for the game, especially in crunch time, that savvy evaluators couldn’t miss.

Heading into his senior year, Dwyane was becoming a hot commodity among midwest schools. Marquette, DePaul and Illinois State were all interested, and he responded to the extra attention with a marvelous season. Dwyane went for a double-double almost every game, with averages of 27 points and 11 rebounds. Richards surged to a mark of 24-5.

[Lennys Tap]

He didn’t start on his AAU team IIRC.

I recall that also. My further recollection is that Dwyane missed a lot of time with that AAU team due to the turmoil in his home life.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Three other things to keep in mind.

First, Wade signed with MU long before anyone knew that he would be Prop 48. The comments on the board here were hopeful he'd pull a qualifying score on the ACT right up to the last test date following his senior season. There were no league rules that would have restricted signing an academically risky player--the rules prohibited that player enrolling.  In November of his senior year, nobody knew whether he'd qualify as a frosh or not.

Second, there were no such league restrictions on the likes of Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, etc.  Even if UNC or Duke chose to pass due to academic risk that Wade would fail to meet league minimums, Huggins and Pitino could still have gone after Wade. Yet, they passed as well.

Third, even AFTER Wade's senior season, he was only voted 7th for Illinois Mr. Basketball. And he improved his standing significantly during his senior year. 

Yup, and thanks for the additional information.  It doesn't fit the meme that people want to believe here, however, so I'm sure you'll be attacked for mentioning it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He was the 5th best player in IL his senior year, playing for the Illinois Warriors.

http://www.basketballworld.faithweb.com/2000/

According to Frank Rusnak, yes. 

[MuMark]

Did you mean to say in 2017 we will be "in" NC....Charlotte, Greensboro, maybe Raleigh?  Beautiful part of the country...can't imagine NC meant anything else. 

TAMU...Sharma is a STONE cold lock for the Badgers. 

Mark Miller just predicted Sharma to BC.......

[Johnny B]

Mark Miller just predicted Sharma to BC.......

Can't get em all

[MuMark]

Can't get em all

We were never going to get him ....I was referring to Chico's " stone cold lock" prediction for Bucky.....

Time will tell but if Mark Miller is predicting BC then I can guarantee you that Sharma isn't a lock for UW......although he certainly could still end up there.

[Dawson Rental]

You're right. I read the chart wrong. RSCI had him listed as #101 for most of the services (anyone not in the top 100 was listed at #101). They had one service listing him at #55.

But it may have been the worst HS class ever. Other than Wade, the best players were Zac Randolph, Luke Ridnour, Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, and Jameer Nelson.

Wade was good, but he was no Liberto Tetimandingar (#77)

[bilsu]

Mark Miller just predicted Sharma to BC.......

Now we need Diamond Stone to commit to Uconn or Maryland and that would be a      

[MUfan12]

Sharma to Stanford.

[Groin_pull]

Sharma to Stanford.

Guess he couldn't meet UW-Madison's academic requirements.

[Dawson Rental]

Wow, I'm impressed how right on TAMU's original post on Aug 20 proved to be.  Right down to Dillard.  (Even TAMU couldn't have predicted the Levin scholarship opening up, but he had Davon on the list after Henry and Haanif.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We were never going to get him ....I was referring to Chico's " stone cold lock" prediction for Bucky.....

Time will tell but if Mark Miller is predicting BC then I can guarantee you that Sharma isn't a lock for UW......although he certainly could still end up there.

UW was tired of waiting, said that last month.  They got their commitment.  Glad to be in the same camp with Mark Miller...wrong on this one