U 17 championship game thread

[real chili 83]

Just poured a glass of Woodford Reserve.  Looking forward to see Henry and Diamond bring home a trophy.

[real chili 83]

Aussies have lots of traditionals. 

[real chili 83]

Aussies by 4 on some good shooting.

[real chili 83]

Nice put back by Stone

[Jay Bee]

(Not gonna tell you the result, but the game was played earlier today  )

[real chili 83]

(Not gonna tell you the result, but the game was played earlier today  )

.

They just fast forwarded through most of the first qtr.  missed their comeback.

[4everwarriors]

Seein' like its about 4:30 am in the Sandbox, hey?

[4everwarriors]

Stone's lost his baby fat. Trainin' in The Quon must pay off, aina?

[real chili 83]

Nice touch at the ft line for stone

[real chili 83]

Newman is tough

[real chili 83]

Ellenson not a factor....at all.

[hoops12]

It's pretty tough to be a factor if you really don't get minutes. Henry played nine minutes and those were all short stints. You can't really develop a rhythm if that's the case. He had a great experience, and hopefully we will see him wearing a Marquette uniform in the future. Being the part of a USA gold medal team is pretty special no matter what. Congratulations to Henry and the Ellenson family!

[real chili 83]

Yes, most of his minutes were in the first half.

USA had some hot shooters.  Also, Stone neutralized their big scorer....he looked afraid to take the ball to the hoop against stone.  Probably also why Ellenson saw limited minutes.

Ellenson looks versatile...brought the ball up a few times.

[Wojo'sMojo]

It's pretty tough to be a factor if you really don't get minutes. Henry played nine minutes and those were all short stints. You can't really develop a rhythm if that's the case. He had a great experience, and hopefully we will see him wearing a Marquette uniform in the future. Being the part of a USA gold medal team is pretty special no matter what. Congratulations to Henry and the Ellenson family!

According to many posters on scoop, short stints don't matter and are not an excuse. They claim you don't need to get into the flow of the game and should have a rhythm as soon as you enter.

[willie warrior]

It's pretty tough to be a factor if you really don't get minutes. Henry played nine minutes and those were all short stints. You can't really develop a rhythm if that's the case. He had a great experience, and hopefully we will see him wearing a Marquette uniform in the future. Being the part of a USA gold medal team is pretty special no matter what. Congratulations to Henry and the Ellenson family!

What--this has been Ners argument on Dawson, which was discounted by the Buzz/Derrick advocates. Either that is true, or it is not.

[NersEllenson]

According to many a handful of posters on scoop (who have never played the game at a decent level), short stints don't matter and are not an excuse. They claim you don't need to get into the flow of the game and should have a rhythm as soon as you enter.

Fixed.

hoops12 played at UW Plateville.  He understands.  As do most...even many of those who haven't played the game at a decent level - except the 5 Buzz blowhards last year who refused to acknowledge Buzz was awful, and refused to acknowledge Buzz had better options on the bench than those he started.  Thank God we won't be subjected to that crap again this year.  Last season went down for me as the most disappointing season in my 27 years of closely following MU hoops - even more disappointing than the 2003-2004 team missing the NCAA.

Bottom line is you can play a TON of very skilled guys for 3, 3 minute stints and they aren't going to show much in the way of production...just like Ellenson didn't in this game...and he's a consensus Top 10 recruit.

[real chili 83]

While Ellenson was playing, there were other USA players that were hoti, especially Neman.  Newman got into a rhythm, and ended up with about 20 points int the first half.

If I recall correctly, Ellenson was first off the bench in the first half.  The U17 team looks to be very very deep in talent.  An outstanding class

One thing I noticed about Stone, he got beat on the baseline by his guy a couple of times.  Anomaly, or weakness?

[g0lden3agle]

What--this has been Ners argument on Dawson, which was discounted by the Buzz/Derrick advocates. Either that is true, or it is not.

You see Willie, there's these things called opinions.  Turns out anyone can have a different opinion, and those opinions can coexist on an internet forum without having to point out that there's opposing viewpoints on the forum.

[Lennys Tap]

Fixed.

hoops12 played at UW Plateville.  He understands.  As do most...even many of those who haven't played the game at a decent level - except the 5 Buzz blowhards last year who refused to acknowledge Buzz was awful, and refused to acknowledge Buzz had better options on the bench than those he started.  Thank God we won't be subjected to that crap again this year.  Last season went down for me as the most disappointing season in my 27 years of closely following MU hoops - even more disappointing than the 2003-2004 team missing the NCAA.

Bottom line is you can play a TON of very skilled guys for 3, 3 minute stints and they aren't going to show much in the way of production...just like Ellenson didn't in this game...and he's a consensus Top 10 recruit.

You claim playing high school basketball qualifies you as an expert (I know guys who played past high school I wouldn't let coach a 4th grade girl's team, but that's another argument altogether) but if you really want to be one have someone explain John Pudner's numbers to you. While you were being seduced by your own "eye test" and the (as usual) wildly wrong predictions of a bunch of coaches, John was almost perfectly nailing last year's results with his Value Added system. You, the AP and the coaches drastically overrated our talent. He (and the numbers) didn't.

[willie warrior]

You see Willie, there's these things called opinions.  Turns out anyone can have a different opinion, and those opinions can coexist on an internet forum without having to point out that there's opposing viewpoints on the forum.

I get it now--everything here is an opinion. So, then all opinions have the same value without the irresponsible  name calling and arrogance that some exercise when they believe their opinion is more valuable than others. So I am sure that you do agree that the opinions should all co-exist, without any accompanying denigration. And of course, you can then police that also. It is clear now.

[Lennys Tap]

I get it now--everything here is an opinion. So, then all opinions have the same value without the irresponsible  name calling and arrogance that some exercise when they believe their opinion is more valuable than others. So I am sure that you do agree that the opinions should all co-exist, without any accompanying denigration. And of course, you can then police that also. It is clear now.

Here's the thing about opinions, Willie - depending on their underpinnings they get more or less consideration. Want to argue about Derrick vs John, does a coach uses his time outs properly or whether one should vote for Romney or Obama, knock your socks off. Plenty of legit stuff on which to base your opinion and argue your point. When someone insists, though, that a suicide bomb is the fast track to heaven, that George W Bush ordered the strikes that brought down the towers or that our basketball coach purposely threw games I won't nod and concede that those statements are a matter of opinion, even though, technically at least, they are - because if a thing is crazy, it doesn't matter if it's also technically something else. Crazy trumps any other thing it might be. At least that's my opinion, LOL.

By the way, I'm not ascribing any of this craziness to you - I bring it up to make a point.

[g0lden3agle]

I get it now--everything here is an opinion. So, then all opinions have the same value without the irresponsible  name calling and arrogance that some exercise when they believe their opinion is more valuable than others. So I am sure that you do agree that the opinions should all co-exist, without any accompanying denigration. And of course, you can then police that also. It is clear now.

So when you disagree with an opinion you can ask that person if they smoke a lot of pot, or call them "slurpy"/"low life bomb thrower", or sarcastically call someone the "all knowing guru", and that doesn't count as irresponsible name calling and arrogance?  Just making sure I've got this all figured out.

[willie warrior]

So when you disagree with an opinion you can ask that person if they smoke a lot of pot, or call them "slurpy"/"low life bomb thrower", or sarcastically call someone the "all knowing guru", and that doesn't count as irresponsible name calling and arrogance?  Just making sure I've got this all figured out.

Keep trying---you are the one that brought up internet forum protocol on opinions--I didn't. And I have previously addressed slurper. Bomb thrower came about when your boy Juwannaman called me stupid. Hey wait--they are all opinions on the internet so it is all OK. No, you do not have it figured out yet. And you are the one that was sarcastic. But it is OK--that is your opinion. All in the spirit of civil discourse.

[mu03eng]

Keep trying---you are the one that brought up internet forum protocol on opinions--I didn't. And I have previously addressed slurper. Bomb thrower came about when your boy Juwannaman called me stupid. Hey wait--they are all opinions on the internet so it is all OK. No, you do not have it figured out yet. And you are the one that was sarcastic. But it is OK--that is your opinion. All in the spirit of civil discourse.

[brandx]

ENG, we CAN have nice things. Just put Willie on ignore.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Keep trying---you are the one that brought up internet forum protocol on opinions--I didn't. And I have previously addressed slurper.

I'll tell you again, that's OUR word. Only me and my slurpers can say that.

 

[mu03eng]

I'll tell you again, that's OUR word. Only me and my slurpers can say that.

 

[tower912]

ENG, we CAN have nice things. Just put Willie on ignore.

Took that advice a long time ago.   Never looked back.   

[NersEllenson]

You claim playing high school basketball qualifies you as an expert (I know guys who played past high school I wouldn't let coach a 4th grade girl's team, but that's another argument altogether) but if you really want to be one have someone explain John Pudner's numbers to you. While you were being seduced by your own "eye test" and the (as usual) wildly wrong predictions of a bunch of coaches, John was almost perfectly nailing last year's results with his Value Added system. You, the AP and the coaches drastically overrated our talent. He (and the numbers) didn't.

And John Pudner's model missed on the 2010 midgets team.  Explain that?  Was it brilliant coaching by Buzz?

And I did give you some food for thought.  If the eye test doesn't matter why do teams even have scouts??

Why would you play two guys who were the most one dimensional players on the roster more minutes than any other players..and play them together?  Why start Juan Anderson over Burton?

Freshman can win at this level you know - your boy Crean proved that with the Big 3..in a much more difficult Big East  Last year's recruits - Burton and JJJ rated as high as Wes and Dom.  Dawson a 3-star.  Buzz played Jake 200+ more minutes than Mayo.  I mean really?

Sorry your weird Buzz infatuation can't allow you to ever be critical of the guy - but he was awful last year...

[NersEllenson]

You claim playing high school basketball qualifies you as an expert (I know guys who played past high school I wouldn't let coach a 4th grade girl's team, but that's another argument altogether) but if you really want to be one have someone explain John Pudner's numbers to you. While you were being seduced by your own "eye test" and the (as usual) wildly wrong predictions of a bunch of coaches, John was almost perfectly nailing last year's results with his Value Added system. You, the AP and the coaches drastically overrated our talent. He (and the numbers) didn't.

Hey Lenny - I seem to recall you bringing up time and again how Buzz way outperformed the coaches and media expectation for the 2010 midgets team.  Do you not recall how many times you pointed out how Buzz did a great job that year, citing time and time again what the coaches and media predicted for that team?  Just curious, why did it matter then, but not now?

[Lennys Tap]

Hey Lenny - I seem to recall you bringing up time and again how Buzz way outperformed the coaches and media expectation for the 2010 midgets team.  Do you not recall how many times you pointed out how Buzz did a great job that year, citing time and time again what the coaches and media predicted for that team?  Just curious, why did it matter then, but not now?

Hey Ners - The TEAM (and of course Buzz gets a lot of credit) massively outperformed the Value Added projections that year - which put us outside of the top 100 entering the season. That year the coaches and the writers agreed with Pudner which gave them (probably accidentally - even a broken watch is right twice a day) some credibility.

We'll see who wins the Ner's eye test vs the Value Added contest this year. You think we're loaded and headed to the NCAA tournament. John doesn't. Hope you're right, but I place more faith in John's numbers than than your eye test.

[NersEllenson]

Hey Ners - The TEAM (and of course Buzz gets a lot of credit) massively outperformed the Value Added projections that year - which put us outside of the top 100 entering the season. That year the coaches and the writers agreed with Pudner which gave them (probably accidentally - even a broken watch is right twice a day) some credibility.

We'll see who wins the Ner's eye test vs the Value Added contest this year. You think we're loaded and headed to the NCAA tournament. John doesn't. Hope you're right, but I place more faith in John's numbers than than your eye test.

The problem is Pudner's data/value add projections going into last year had the team projected at 21.65 (good for what should have been 3rd and a solid NCAA berth...not to mention the 21.65 didn't even take into account Burton's Value add which was roughly 2.0..which would have put us at 23.65 and rivaling Nova and Creighton for the league title) - and we finished a paltry 12.66 for the year.  That speaks to either really poor coaching, or really, really bad player development...and both of those fall on the coach.