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Author Topic: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?  (Read 14406 times)

Tugg Speedman

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What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« on: August 16, 2014, 04:44:43 AM »
See the highlighted part ... What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?


Mankato football coach Todd Hoffner jumps back into position

http://www.startribune.com/local/271476971.html?page=all&prepage=2&c=y#continue

The lowest moments in his two-year battle are still painful for Minnesota State Mankato football coach Todd Hoffner.

“We were down to very little money,” Hoffner said, sitting in his dining room with his wife, Melodee. The family, he said, came perilously close to losing their home.

Hoffner tried to answer, at first uncomfortably, the many questions that still surround his legal and emotional roller coaster after officials at Minnesota State Mankato found naked pictures of his children on his school cellphone in August 2012. He was escorted off the practice field, and subsequently removed from his job.

“The goal always was for Todd to get his job back. [We] never wavered,” said Melodee, who still flashed her emotions as she recapped what had happened. “More people said, ‘You need to stay.’ [There were] a few that said, ‘What do you think about starting fresh?’ ”

The coach said that questions about what transpired might linger “only if you leave.’’

“There is no choice,” he said, “but to come back and face anyone and everyone.”

In court and on the field, Hoffner has been vindicated. He has his team back — the Mavericks began practice this week in preparation for their first game against St. Cloud State on Sept. 4 — and the abandonment of last April when his players briefly refused to play for him when he returned appears to be in the past. But an awkwardness remains.

The Hoffner saga went viral nationally in the wake of the sex scandal at Penn State involving a former assistant coach. Child pornography charges were filed against Hoffner, and then dismissed when a judge determined the pictures simply showed children at innocent play. But instead of reinstating him, school officials fired him, a decision reversed only when Hoffner won a sweeping arbitrator’s ruling last spring after he had accepted the coaching job at Minot State.

There have been changes — at least on the surface. In an attempt to alter his image as a “hard-ass” coach, Hoffner said he has made some subtle concessions: He will allow loud music to be piped in during practices, and will let his assistants wear sunglasses. His players also will not have to always wear their helmets at practices.

And swearing, the subject of a nondisciplinary letter of expectations the coach received in early 2012, also has been addressed. “I can tell you that I have not sworn since I’ve been back,” he said. With the new school year, Hoffner also will see his pay rise slightly again, up nearly $5,000 to $105,809.

“I will not be trying to appease everybody,” he added. “In your attempt to appease everybody, you’ll appease nobody.”

Unexpected support

The long journey was not without its bright spots, which only now are coming to light. Former Marquette men’s basketball coach Buzz Williams — out of the blue — called Hoffner and last year paid for the Hoffners to go to Disney World. “[I told Hoffner], ‘You can go anywhere you want to go — just tell me,’ ” said Williams, now the coach at Virginia Tech.

Overcome by emotion as he recounted his reaching out to Hoffner, Williams said in a phone interview that he was devastated by what Hoffner had endured and that the image of police coming to “get you at your house, and arrest you — I just don’t get that.” Williams said he also invited Hoffner to Milwaukee last winter to a Marquette game, and had the Mankato coach attend a pregame team meeting.

Williams said he even called Minot State to help Hoffner get hired at the North Dakota school. “[I told Minot State], ‘He was wronged,’ ” said Williams. Hoffner was hired at Minot State and then quit without ever coaching a game — leaving abruptly, and leaving the school less than pleased, when he got word he could coach again in Mankato.

Williams said that when he first called Hoffner, the Mankato coach had to be persuaded to accept the offer. “I’m giving it to you,” Williams said he told Hoffner. “We’re not going to argue about it.”


School officials mum

Hoffner found no such support among school officials, who just months before his problems had lavished him with praise — and a raise — after a 2011 season that ended with a bowl victory. Hoffner and his wife said they still cannot explain why key school officials were so quick to abandon them.

Others are equally baffled. “How can you be so enamored with this guy, and then suddenly it just all goes sour. [Even] when the judge rules [to dismiss the charges], you don’t give up and you still try to crucify the guy,” said Casey Lloyd, the football team’s longtime radio voice.

Eight months before Hoffner was removed as coach in August 2012, school President Richard Davenport bragged in an e-mail to Hoffner of having the football from a bowl game victory on his desk. The school’s vice president for finance — who would later be seen by the Hoffners as being particularly vindictive toward them — sent an e-mail at the same time saying he was “very proud” of the “coaching job you and your staff have done.”

Melodee Hoffner added that she had been working with Athletic Director Kevin Buisman — Hoffner’s boss — on a fund­raising drive for a local charity. Before their world changed dramatically, the Hoffners said they had attended Davenport’s wedding, as well as a graduation party for the children of Richard Straka, the vice president for finance.

Davenport, Straka and Buisman each declined to be interviewed for this story through school spokesmen.

Jim Fleming, Hoffner’s lawyer, said he still is baffled why Blue Earth County Attorney Ross Arneson — who did not seek re-election — pressed criminal charges against Hoffner even as evidence mounted that the case was thin. Instead, according to internal e-mails, Arneson argued that should Hoffner “accept responsibility for his conduct” the charges could be reduced to a misdemeanor. “If your client blames everybody but himself, then it is up to the court system to hold him responsible,” Arneson wrote.

Arneson did not respond to interview requests.

‘The elephant in the room’

There remain, in the end, almost too many oddities, loose ends and fractured relationships in Mankato to count.

Hoffner said in June he has not spoken to Aaron Keen, the assistant who became the interim coach and compiled a 24-2 regular season record in Hoffner’s absence, since Hoffner came back and Keen left. “I asked him, ‘Is this what you want?’ ” Hoffner said of Keen’s leaving. “People put a lot of drama into that.”

The team’s defensive line coach, Ron Planz, also had little to say after leaving in March for a head coaching job in Illinois. “I’m not really interested” in talking about Hoffner, he said.

Hoffner meanwhile said he has been straightforward with his team — especially the 23 incoming players Keen signed in February — and said that “less than a handful of guys” had left the program since his return. He said his approach, in dealing with the team, has been to talk directly about what occurred and identify “the elephant in the room.

“I don’t try [to] dance around it,” he said.


« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 04:48:00 AM by Heisenberg »

tower912

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 05:08:16 AM »
This isn't the first story like this.   There have been other stories of him calling up coaches who have been fired and offering them money, working to get them another job, doing something nice for their family.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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SaveOD238

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 08:24:25 AM »
My guess is that having a bunch of young children at home makes him sympathetic to other coaches with children.  As much as we don't want to admit it, Buzz was a deeply religious, charitable man.  He just let his basketball ego get too big.

real chili 83

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 08:30:12 AM »
It's an absolute travesty what they did to Hoffner.

He was/is a tremendous coach.

keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 08:47:12 AM »
My guess is that having a bunch of young children at home makes him sympathetic to other coaches with children.  As much as we don't want to admit it, Buzz was a deeply religious, charitable man.  He just let his basketball ego get too big.

A deeply religious man could see past what he perceived as failings in colleagues and therefore refuse to treat them with anything less than dignity and respect. The Christian ethos doesn't allow for picking and choosing one's moments. Random acts of kindness demonstrate periodic generosity but do not mask callow insensitivity. Bert's bizarre treatment of fellow members of the Marquette Athletic Department exposed him as the intellectual and impious fraud he truly is.  


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mileskishnish72

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 09:03:12 AM »
Examples of bizarre?

Tugg Speedman

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 10:36:50 AM »
A deeply religious man could see past what he perceived as failings in colleagues and therefore refuse to treat them with anything less than dignity and respect. The Christian ethos doesn't allow for picking and choosing one's moments. Random acts of kindness demonstrate periodic generosity but do not mask callow insensitivity. Bert's bizarre treatment of fellow members of the Marquette Athletic Department exposed him as the intellectual and impious fraud he truly is.  

+1

Where was this sympathy and understanding for Larry Williams?

wadesworld

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 11:12:27 AM »
A deeply religious man could see past what he perceived as failings in colleagues and therefore refuse to treat them with anything less than dignity and respect. The Christian ethos doesn't allow for picking and choosing one's moments. Random acts of kindness demonstrate periodic generosity but do not mask callow insensitivity. Bert's bizarre treatment of fellow members of the Marquette Athletic Department exposed him as the intellectual and impious fraud he truly is.  

Well put.

+1

Where was this sympathy and understanding for Larry Williams?


Much more than just Larry Williams.
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Jay Bee

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 11:43:31 AM »
"jumps back into position".."hard ass".. is the STrib being cute?

For the record, I find what was on Hoffner's phone to be bizarre and concerning.  It makes no sense to me.
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GGGG

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 12:46:06 PM »
Parents have been taking naked pictures of their young children since cameras have been invented, and phones have become the camera of default in most families.

Taking naked pictures of your own young kids on a state issued phone isn't a felony, but it is something he should (and has) been sanctioned for.

Galway Eagle

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 12:46:53 PM »
"jumps back into position".."hard ass".. is the STrib being cute?

For the record, I find what was on Hoffner's phone to be bizarre and concerning.  It makes no sense to me.

How old are his kids? Was it like an overreaction to toddler running around naked or did he have like pics of like his teenage kids?
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GGGG

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2014, 12:47:32 PM »
How old are his kids? Was it like an overreaction to toddler running around naked or did he have like pics of like his teenage kids?

At the time they were all under 10 years old.

GGGG

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2014, 12:48:42 PM »
Much more than just Larry Williams.


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Galway Eagle

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2014, 12:58:09 PM »
At the time they were all under 10 years old.

Ya just read up on the case.  I mean it seems to me that it's weird to have an 8yr old boy and 9yr old girl bathing together but I don't think that the two videos were by any means pornography or sexually exicit
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keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2014, 01:03:58 PM »
Ya just read up on the case.  I mean it seems to me that it's weird to have an 8yr old boy and 9yr old girl bathing together but I don't think that the two videos were by any means pornography or sexually exicit

If that is the reality then Hoffner is mentally ill if he cannot see a problem with siblings that age bathing together, much less capturing those images for posterity. 8 and 9 year old children of different genders do not bathe together under any circumstance. A parent photographing such events is disturbed. This man would not be welcome in my neighborhood - not even to deliver a pizza.


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GGGG

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2014, 01:08:01 PM »
If that is the reality then Hoffner is mentally ill if he cannot see a problem with siblings that age bathing together, much less capturing those images for posterity. 8 and 9 year old children of different genders do not bathe together under any circumstance. A parent photographing such events is disturbed. This man would not be welcome in my neighborhood - not even to deliver a pizza.


Lighten up Francis.  A little odd?  Sure.

Fire-able or arrestable offense?  Gimme a break.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 01:10:28 PM by The Sultan of Sunshine »

real chili 83

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2014, 01:12:43 PM »
I'm with sultan on this one.

keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »

Lighten up Francis.  A little odd?  Sure.

Fire-able or arrestable offense?  Gimme a break.

A "little odd?" It is extremely odd. Children of that age do not bathe together.

Should he have been fired because he took photos of his nude pre-pubescent male and female children bathing together? No.

Should he have been fired for taking photos of his nude pre-pubescent male and female children bathing together with an employer-provided asset? Arguable.

I don't know about Mankato State University but if one were to take nude pictures of older children on an Air Force-provided phone you would be subject to discipline that would end your career, one way or another. And with reason.



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🏀

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2014, 01:43:12 PM »
Yeah,
I'm with sultan on this one.

me too.

GGGG

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2014, 01:54:22 PM »
BTW, they were "all under the age of nine" at the time of the recording.  The eldest was nine when he lost his job.

keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2014, 02:09:05 PM »
BTW, they were "all under the age of nine" at the time of the recording.  The eldest was nine when he lost his job.

Not so. They were 9, 8, and 5 when the videos were shot.

I am not questioning the legality of this matter for I have no expertise. But as a parent, everything about Hoffner's judgment is questionable. 


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Nukem2

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2014, 02:54:55 PM »
Whatever the merits of Hoffner's case may be, the video was on a school cellphone.  He was certainly out of bounds in that regard.

Galway Eagle

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2014, 03:14:12 PM »
If that is the reality then Hoffner is mentally ill if he cannot see a problem with siblings that age bathing together, much less capturing those images for posterity. 8 and 9 year old children of different genders do not bathe together under any circumstance. A parent photographing such events is disturbed. This man would not be welcome in my neighborhood - not even to deliver a pizza.

He said it's so that they don't have shame about their bodies. To me 8 and 9 is the absolute oldest that I can fathom that being ok before you hit creepy.  The two videos were not of them bathing but of a dance they did after the bath where the three kids asked him to video tape a dance and then they dropped their towels and sang some song about being naked.  Personally I think the only fire able portion is that it was on a work phone.  I'm all for making peole comfortable with their bodies but at that age, especially for the girl, you're getting into not ok for her to be walking around naked in front of lil bro and dad
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Jay Bee

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2014, 05:02:03 PM »
Bathing together? Uhh, that wasn't what was on the videos.

Quote
A one-minute video created on June 26 showed the three children, one boy and two girls, with their backs to the camera and covered by towels, the complaint said. They drop the towels and turn toward the camera, exposing themselves. The boy allegedly fondles himself and the girls allegedly bend over and expose their anuses to the camera.
A much shorter video showed the girls dancing naked before the boy enters wearing only a football helmet, according to the complaint. The third video, about two minutes long, allegedly shows one of girls being woken at night by a male and told to go to the bathroom. After the girl gets up, the camera focuses in on the back side of her underwear, the complaint said.

Sorry, I just can't understand why these videos would be on your phone. I can't understand what went on in the videos. Is it criminal? Don't know. It strikes me as probably sick, but at a minimum I just can't reconcile this to what reasonable, decent humans do in every day life.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2014, 05:03:49 PM »
Bathing together? Uhh, that wasn't what was on the videos.

Sorry, I just can't understand why these videos would be on your phone. I can't understand what went on in the videos. Is it criminal? Don't know. It strikes me as probably sick, but at a minimum I just can't reconcile this to what reasonable, decent humans do in every day life.

I agree.  I didn't hear read anything about the third video that's not ok
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rocket surgeon

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2014, 05:44:50 PM »
He said it's so that they don't have shame about their bodies. To me 8 and 9 is the absolute oldest that I can fathom that being ok before you hit creepy.  The two videos were not of them bathing but of a dance they did after the bath where the three kids asked him to video tape a dance and then they dropped their towels and sang some song about being naked.  Personally I think the only fire able portion is that it was on a work phone.  I'm all for making peole comfortable with their bodies but at that age, especially for the girl, you're getting into not ok for her to be walking around naked in front of lil bro and dad

well if any good came of this-hopefully awareness.  either it exposed a potential problem in the making and corrected it, or it shoved it back into a closet only to reappear later.  i shudder to be reminded of one jerry sandusky.  i have to lean toward creepy and hope the hoffner family sees this as bad judgement, puts it behind them, never to have to revisit anything like this again as well as anyone else.  man, if this happens again in some form or another, many will look back and say what if only we...?  how many people saw the signs and ignored them with sandusky?  just saying
don't...don't don't don't don't

Tugg Speedman

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2014, 06:04:24 PM »
Again. Given all this ... Why is Bert calling this guy out of the blue to pay for a trip to Disney world and going to bat for him?

It leaves me as many questions as the video does.

rocket surgeon

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2014, 08:22:17 PM »
Again. Given all this ... Why is Bert calling this guy out of the blue to pay for a trip to Disney world and going to bat for him?

It leaves me as many questions as the video does.

only thing i can think of is that he felt sorry for him and felt he was getting "jobbed"?  could you imagine being minot state?  giving him a 2nd chance on the recommendations/endorsement of buzz and then he leaves there to go back to mankato after they just done exposing him as an alleged pedophile?  that's got to blow buzz's credibility some?
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2014, 08:58:43 PM »
Hoffner's case is odd. Definitely a different standard of appropriateness than what is the current cultural norm. Certainly not something I would do if I was a parent. But I don't think the dad is a pedophile.

In the end, it was on a school issued phone, so it was absolutely within the rights of the school to terminate the coach. But this strikes me as a case of bad judgement rather than a heinous crime.
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muhoosier260

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2014, 09:45:58 PM »
If the facts were the same except for the pictures being on a computer (school issued) would people's reaction be different? Regardless, Buzz injecting himself into this situation is bizarre (even though I think Hoffner didn't deserve any of the treatment he received).

rocket surgeon

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2014, 05:12:30 AM »
sounded like mankato made a knee jerk reaction, without having all the facts first.  then as the situation evolved, cooler heads prevailed.  but hey, hoffner doesn't swear anymore and they get to listen to loud music now or something?  what's next? chocolate milk on fridays?  what's nasty about this, will hoffner persevere?  he came perilously close to losing his reputation, career, house, family, etc over an alleged, but kind of creepy act.  maybe buzz helped prevent this from going where no innocent person should have to go-guilty before innocent 
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Jay Bee

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2014, 10:14:46 AM »
sounded like mankato made a knee jerk reaction, without having all the facts first.  then as the situation evolved, cooler heads prevailed.  but hey, hoffner doesn't swear anymore and they get to listen to loud music now or something?  what's next? chocolate milk on fridays?  what's nasty about this, will hoffner persevere?  he came perilously close to losing his reputation, career, house, family, etc over an alleged, but kind of creepy act.  maybe buzz helped prevent this from going where no innocent person should have to go-guilty before innocent 

No, Mankato didn't. They didn't fire him for a loooong time after the phone incident and when they did it was for something else (e.g., viewing dirt porn on his work issued computer; allowing his wife to use the computer).

I think if you look at the various changes Hoffner has "made" in how he carries himself at work now, you can tell there were some other issues other than the bizarro stuff on his phone and him  beating to porn on his work computer.

He testified at his own pre-trial - for a long time. It was unusual and odd. The disgusting stuff on his phone isn't in question - it's what you personally think about it. I find it disturbing and problematic. Others don't.

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keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2014, 10:46:34 AM »
No, Mankato didn't. They didn't fire him for a loooong time after the phone incident and when they did it was for something else (e.g., viewing dirt porn on his work issued computer; allowing his wife to use the computer).

I think if you look at the various changes Hoffner has "made" in how he carries himself at work now, you can tell there were some other issues other than the bizarro stuff on his phone and him  beating to porn on his work computer.

He testified at his own pre-trial - for a long time. It was unusual and odd. The disgusting stuff on his phone isn't in question - it's what you personally think about it. I find it disturbing and problematic. Others don't

The plot thickens...

This man filmed his two daughters bending over, pulling their butt cheeks apart, and exposing their sphincters to him. How anyone can not find that disturbing is troubling in a very different way.


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4everwarriors

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2014, 10:57:38 AM »
Auditionin' for the Casting Couch, hey?
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rocket surgeon

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2014, 12:26:00 PM »
No, Mankato didn't. They didn't fire him for a loooong time after the phone incident and when they did it was for something else (e.g., viewing dirt porn on his work issued computer; allowing his wife to use the computer).

I think if you look at the various changes Hoffner has "made" in how he carries himself at work now, you can tell there were some other issues other than the bizarro stuff on his phone and him  beating to porn on his work computer.

He testified at his own pre-trial - for a long time. It was unusual and odd. The disgusting stuff on his phone isn't in question - it's what you personally think about it. I find it disturbing and problematic. Others don't.



oh, shoot!  i didn't know about the porn stuff-wtf, but thanks for filling me in.  sounds like he's qualified for a position with the federal gubmint though as they have just recently admitted that they watch up to 8 hours or so of porn a week or something like that.  maybe he'd have some pointers/new web sites to recommend?  it'll be interesting to see how his team does after all this.  and buzz?  now i have more questions than answers.
don't...don't don't don't don't

keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2014, 12:48:15 AM »
oh, shoot!  i didn't know about the porn stuff-wtf, but thanks for filling me in.  sounds like he's qualified for a position with the federal gubmint though as they have just recently admitted that they watch up to 8 hours or so of porn a week or something like that.  maybe he'd have some pointers/new web sites to recommend?  it'll be interesting to see how his team does after all this.  and buzz?  now i have more questions than answers.

Viewing porn on an Air Force computer will get you charged with several violations of the UCMJ. Viewing porn at work in the tech industry is just another day of work.

But the videos of his kids are sick.


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Coleman

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2014, 09:14:00 AM »

Should he have been fired because he took photos of his nude pre-pubescent male and female children bathing together? No.

Should he have been fired for taking photos of his nude pre-pubescent male and female children bathing together with an employer-provided asset? Arguable.


Its an important distinction that Keefe makes.

What you do on your own time with your own stuff is your business, as long as it is not illegal.

What you do with your company's assets are a completely different story. And a company has every right to terminate employment with someone they deem is using their assets inappropriately (or even simply in a way unintended by the employer).

barfolomew

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2014, 09:39:03 AM »
What you do with your company's assets are a completely different story. And a company has every right to terminate employment with someone they deem is using their assets inappropriately (or even simply in a way unintended by the employer).

Except Scoop at work...
Surely that is an inalienable human right!
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keefe

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2014, 10:51:51 AM »
Except Scoop at work...
Surely that is an inalienable human right!


I read somewhere that Jefferson had the men of Scoop in mind when he put quill to parchment and articulated that concept. Some issues are foundational bedrock in the quest for life, liberty, and the pursuit of basketball knowledge.


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ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2014, 10:15:52 PM »
jaybee's got videos of 89 year olds bathing and dancing the sphincter dance.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2014, 09:18:29 AM »
jaybee's got videos of 89 year olds bathing and dancing the sphincter dance.

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Newsdreams

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Re: What was Brent's connection that he got so involved in this?
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2014, 09:47:55 AM »
jaybee's got videos of 89 year olds bathing and dancing the sphincter dance.
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