Who left the team in better shape, Crean or Williams?

[Dawson Rental]

TC left us an apple.
Bert left us an orange.

Both better than Dukiet's parting gift - a rotten egg.

You are confused.  A rotten egg was Dukiet's arrival gift.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Fair enough -- I took that as a definite slight to the conference - but not MU.

Here are some of the takeaways from the various mouthpieces...these tidbits are going to be bought by some people because perception can be reality.  Some may be 100% correct, some may not.  Regardless, many will believe them and they don't paint MU in the best light and these words didn't come out of these journalists mouths, they came to their ears from Buzz and to their keyboards.



"According to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiated deal, Williams took a pay cut to come to Virginia Tech and the ACC."

"Buzz Williams was gone. Marquette’s head coach was frustrated with the new league and changes in administration. He wanted a change of scenery.  The old Big East was all-powerful. It had guys like Jim Boeheim and Rick Pitino and virtually unlimited exposure that allowed Williams to win recruiting wars against fellow high-major programs. "

"Buzz Williams left Marquette for a variety of reasons, sources told ESPN. One of the biggest was new league/new TV package."

Etc, etc

[bilsu]

Depends if you look at this in totality

One guy inherited the Old Gym, Conference USA, a losing record and left us with the Big East, the Al McGuire Center, a recent Final Four to build on, and a loaded team.  As for recruiting, if he hadn't left the team would have had Taylor, Scott Christopherson, Maurice Creek (on record as saying he was coming), etc, etc.  Who knows about Mbakwe, all we know is he didn't play for Buzz but did for Crean.   People forget who was committed and who was likely coming behind them.  He left for a blueblood (which most basketball people don't take that as a slap), spoke very highly of Marquette, the conference, etc.


The other guy leveraged all that the other guy left for him and did a really nice job with it until his last year.  This guy crapped on the conference on his way out in multiple interviews, got the AD canned, had some wonderful runs in the NCAA tournament and also some black eyes for the university as well, and went to that blueblood program Virginia Tech (which begged a lot of questions about MU because of where he went).

Both coaches tried to steal MU's recruits. Buzz got two and Crean got one that left Indiana after one year.

[GooooMarquette]

You are confused.  A rotten egg was Dukiet's arrival gift.

Fair enough.  So his parting gift was a flaming bag of feces?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Both coaches tried to steal MU's recruits. Buzz got two and Crean got one that left Indiana after one year.

Correct, though actually I would say it was 2 and 2.  Crean got Williams and Creek.  Creek was going wherever Crean was, so if he stayed at MU he was coming to MU. 

[79Warrior]

Here are some of the takeaways from the various mouthpieces...these tidbits are going to be bought by some people because perception can be reality.  Some may be 100% correct, some may not.  Regardless, many will believe them and they don't paint MU in the best light and these words didn't come out of these journalists mouths, they came to their ears from Buzz and to their keyboards.



"According to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiated deal, Williams took a pay cut to come to Virginia Tech and the ACC[/

"Buzz Williams was gone. Marquette’s head coach was frustrated with the new league and changes in administration. He wanted a change of scenery.  The old Big East was all-powerful. It had guys like Jim Boeheim and Rick Pitino and virtually unlimited exposure that allowed Williams to win recruiting wars against fellow high-major programs. "

"Buzz Williams left Marquette for a variety of reasons, sources told ESPN. One of the biggest was new league/new TV package."

Etc, et

Chicos, it's bs spin and everyone knows it. The frigging source for most of the nonsense was Buzz. What the hell is he going to say, I am not wanted at MU and this was the best I could do on short notice? No, the coward insulted the school and every team in the conference. I certainly did not hear anyone say, wow, great move. Quite the opposite. More like WTF!

Crean may have left in the middle of the night, but he has always talked about Marquette with respect and admiration. Williams is a phony, just ask the folks at New Orleans. When the going gets tough, Williams gets going.

[GGGG]

Chicos, it's bs spin and everyone knows it. The frigging source for most of the nonsense was Buzz. What the hell is he going to say, I am not wanted at MU and this was the best I could do on short notice? No, the coward insulted the school and every team in the conference. I certainly did not hear anyone say, wow, great move. Quite the opposite. More like WTF!

Crean may have left in the middle of the night, but he has always talked about Marquette with respect and admiration. Williams is a phony, just ask the folks at New Orleans. When the going gets tough, Williams gets going.

Furthermore, every single one of those excuses that Buzz gave pretty much were blunted when the top assistant for the most legendary active coach in college basketball sought out the job.

[WarriorFan]

Chicos, it's bs spin and everyone knows it. The frigging source for most of the nonsense was Buzz. What the hell is he going to say, I am not wanted at MU and this was the best I could do on short notice? No, the coward insulted the school and every team in the conference. I certainly did not hear anyone say, wow, great move. Quite the opposite. More like WTF!

Crean may have left in the middle of the night, but he has always talked about Marquette with respect and admiration. Williams is a phony, just ask the folks at New Orleans. When the going gets tough, Williams gets going.

Crean is a phony, but is PC enough to always say the right thing.
Brent is a phony, and let his true colors come through for the shortest time.

Crean took the program farther during his tenure, but Buzz will leave a better team behind (long term).

Brent was all about head f**&ing the players... so if Wojo can fix that, he'll get the most out of these guys in a hurry.

[Dawson Rental]

Fair enough.  So his parting gift was a flaming bag of feces?

Hopefully, O'Neill wasn't wearing his new HC shoes when he first arrived at his office...

[keefe]

Hopefully, O'Neill wasn't wearing his new HC shoes when he first arrived at his office...

The Burnt Orange Nike Volunteers?

[MUfan12]

Brent was all about head f**&ing the players... so if Wojo can fix that, he'll get the most out of these guys in a hurry.

You're absolutely right about that. Some guys really responded to it, but this group did not. There was a sense of relief with a lot of the returning players when they saw how Wojo operates.

It's a lot tighter ship now, but their skills-based approach has been well received.

[River rat]

Yes, Matt Heldt.  Don't get me wrong, I am very happy to have Matt, but he's got some rising to do to be a top 100 guy.  Another reason why rankings should be taken with a grain of salt.

Side Bet
Who gets credit for leaving Luke Fischer for Wojo, Buzz or Crean?

well according to the gurus that will no longer be the case after the summer rankings are updated

[Lennys Tap]

Furthermore, every single one of those excuses that Buzz gave pretty much were blunted when the top assistant for the most legendary active coach in college basketball sought out the job.

Don't forget that only one year earlier the previous top assistant for the most legendary active coach in college basketball sought out the head coaching job at Northwestern. So...

[GGGG]

Don't forget that only one year earlier the previous top assistant for the most legendary active coach in college basketball sought out the head coaching job at Northwestern. So...

DAMMIT!!!

But in all seriousness, I think Northwestern can be better than its reputation.

[Lennys Tap]

DAMMIT!!!

But in all seriousness, I think Northwestern can be better than its reputation.

So do I.

[muwarrior69]

Niether, Todd Smith has left the team in better shape.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, it's bs spin and everyone knows it. The frigging source for most of the nonsense was Buzz. What the hell is he going to say, I am not wanted at MU and this was the best I could do on short notice? No, the coward insulted the school and every team in the conference. I certainly did not hear anyone say, wow, great move. Quite the opposite. More like WTF!

Crean may have left in the middle of the night, but he has always talked about Marquette with respect and admiration. Williams is a phony, just ask the folks at New Orleans. When the going gets tough, Williams gets going.

Well, where I differ from you here is the "everyone knows it" angle.  I don't think that's the case and you are giving way too much credit to people out there. 

[bilsu]

I do not think Buzz was a phony, but I do think he needs to feel people's approval. His character flaw was that he could not take criticism and he would shut out the people that question or criticised him. I think he was very serious when he said he would be here as long as we wanted him, which is what happened. I also think he was very close to having a mental break down last season. He simply had to move on to survive. Remember that he rarely sleeps and has an obsession with numbers, so he is not a well balanced individual. He also left for supposedly a lesser program. Now contrast to Crean who always thought of us as a stepping stone. I am glad we have Wojo, but someday he will move on and people here will be bashing him. Heck they probably will be bashing him next summer, when this team does not make the NCAA tournament. I generally will not be rooting for Buzz, but I would definitely be rooting for Buzz if his team was playing Crean's team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I do not think Buzz was a phony, but I do think he needs to feel people's approval. His character flaw was that he could not take criticism and he would shut out the people that question or criticised him. I think he was very serious when he said he would be here as long as we wanted him, which is what happened. I also think he was very close to having a mental break down last season. He simply had to move on to survive. Remember that he rarely sleeps and has an obsession with numbers, so he is not a well balanced individual. He also left for supposedly a lesser program. Now contrast to Crean who always thought of us as a stepping stone. I am glad we have Wojo, but someday he will move on and people here will be bashing him. Heck they probably will be bashing him next summer, when this team does not make the NCAA tournament. I generally will not be rooting for Buzz, but I would definitely be rooting for Buzz if his team was playing Crean's team.

He gave us 9 years, something no MU coach has done since McGuire.  Could have jumped plenty of times, but didn't.

[Dr. Blackheart]

He gave us 9 years, something no MU coach has done since McGuire.  Could have jumped plenty of times, but didn't.

Except Raymond's and Majerus, who "gave us" more than Al even.  Same could have been said of them about chances to jump. So, the question then becomes, what is the shelf life of a MU head coach in the Modern Age?  Is it Crean's 9 years? 

MU yearns a lifer, yet gets a fifer. One has to ask why.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Except Raymond's and Majerus, who "gave us" more than Al even.  Same could have been said of them about chances to jump. So, the question then becomes, what is the shelf life of a MU head coach in the Modern Age?  Is it Crean's 9 years? 

MU yearns a lifer, yet gets a fifer. One has to ask why.

Not talking about years as an assistant, I'm talking in the big chair.


I think Crean's 9 years is the high end at MU, which is going to be more than ironic considering the narrative pushed here by many.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This is a very good question and debate. I literally loathe Crean and genuinely liked Buzz, but the comments Buzz has made about Marquette and our conference, as well as the fact that he left for a lesser job (thereby making the MU job seem smaller) makes me vote for Crean. I vote this way based on the program as a whole, as I agree with others comments about the young recruits Buzz left vs. a single year of solid players left by Crean.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not talking about years as an assistant, I'm talking in the big chair.


I think Crean's 9 years is the high end at MU, which is going to be more than ironic considering the narrative pushed here by many.

I think you are about right.  Even with Hank and Rick, they had that shine but it faded.  There are a lot of reasons why each faded but why is Crean the recent high water mark?  For many of these, MU's admin was a root cause.  Conference was another.