Which smoker to buy

[real chili 83]

Making burnt ends this weekend.

Question....

Cook point seperately?

Cook whole and remove when the flat is done?

[rocket surgeon]

Making burnt ends this weekend.

Question....

Cook point seperately?

Cook whole and remove when the flat is done?

you mean the fat?  i like to cook it until the fat melds into the meat more and gets crispy.  since i have an electric smoker.  that doesn't crisp meats well if at all.  so when i'm satisfied with the smoking/cooking part, i throw it on my gas grill and really sear it up good without burning it up.  might want a spray bottle to keep the flames under control somewhat also. 

when i bake my corned beef in a covered pan in oven or slow cooker-then throw it on my grill to give it a nice crisp bark-what an incredible transformation from a good corn beef to something you don't have to worry about leftovers-always cook with eyes bigger than your stomach

you just reminded me-i have a big slab of rubbed, wrapped brisket in the freezer-time to celebrate the passage of winter-it is spring here right?

[real chili 83]

No.  I mean do you cut the point off the flat and cook them seperately, or cook them whole.

I always trim the excess fat, including the fat vein between the point and flat.

Most of the recipes I've seen show the point being cooked with the flat till the the flat gets to 190.  Then they remove the point, cube it, and finish with another hour or two with smoke.  Seems like the part of the flat connected to the point will cook unevenly.

[real chili 83]

For those of us in MN, there is a KCBS tournament  being held this weekend at the Sam's Club in Woodbury.  From what I can see, there are some really good teams competing.

Looks like they will have seminars for the public, plus free tasting on Saturday starting at noon.  Here's a link.

http://mnbbqsociety.com/contests/kcbs-contest/?post=1690

[SaintPaulWarrior]

For those of us in MN, there is a KCBS tournament  being held this weekend at the Sam's Club in Woodbury.  From what I can see, there are some really good teams competing.

Looks like they will have seminars for the public, plus free tasting on Saturday starting at noon.  Here's a link.

http://mnbbqsociety.com/contests/kcbs-contest/?post=1690

http://kcbs.us/samstour/

[rocket surgeon]

Speaking of Minnesota, rest in peace Denny green

[real chili 83]

Speaking of Minnesota, rest in peace Denny green

Crazy coach, but I hear from those who knew him outside of football a pretty good guy avid bass angler. 

[rocket surgeon]

Crazy coach, but I hear from those who knew him outside of football a pretty good guy avid bass angler.

If you're a fan, he's quite "passionate". To us packa fans, yup, kinda crazy, but a good, well respected coach

[rocket surgeon]

Back to the smokin topic, I've been on a real beef brisket run.  Get the trimmed up 6-8 lb'ers at Costco for about $5/lb.  a little better than the whole briskest as they trim off most of the fat as you would anyway.  So you aren't paying for the fat. After I smoke 'em, finish cooking in tin foil with a mop, then throw them on the grill to crisp up the outside.  If you use the whole untrimmed brisket, it creates quite the fire and you need to really turn/move 'em around so ya don't turn 'em into charcoal

[real chili 83]

Back to the smokin topic, I've been on a real beef brisket run.  Get the trimmed up 6-8 lb'ers at Costco for about $5/lb.  a little better than the whole briskest as they trim off most of the fat as you would anyway.  So you aren't paying for the fat. After I smoke 'em, finish cooking in tin foil with a mop, then throw them on the grill to crisp up the outside.  If you use the whole untrimmed brisket, it creates quite the fire and you need to really turn/move 'em around so ya don't turn 'em into charcoal

I've become a fan of whole brisket with the point.  They are half the price per pound at Sams club versus a brisket flat.  I seperate the point and cook it for burnt ends.  I do end up trimming significant fat in prepping the meat, but no big deal.

[rocket surgeon]

I've become a fan of whole brisket with the point.  They are half the price per pound at Sams club versus a brisket flat.  I seperate the point and cook it for burnt ends.  I do end up trimming significant fat in prepping the meat, but no big deal.

Right, but what's the difference between buying the trimmed up flat at $5.89/lb. or the whole sumbeach for $3.80/lb and cut off 3 lbs of adipose?  I guess with the whole basted, you have control over how you want it.  Or if you r into makin soap or something EYN'a?  My prices are what I just bought it for at Costco

[real chili 83]

Right, but what's the difference between buying the trimmed up flat at $5.89/lb. or the whole sumbeach for $3.80/lb and cut off 3 lbs of adipose?  I guess with the whole basted, you have control over how you want it.  Or if you r into makin soap or something EYN'a?  My prices are what I just bought it for at Costco

If you are going for the flat, I agree with you.  Nice that Costco will trim it for you.  Sams won't.  Curious, do they charge you for the price before they trim, or after?

Made up some country style ribs and chicken thighs on Sunday.  Outstanding.

If you are into bbq sauce, Famous Dave Anderson has a really good and interesting recipe in his cookbook.  It was written after he departed FD's as an Exec.  It's made only in part with some of his Texas Pit sauce, plus some other nummy ingredients.  Highly recommended.

[rocket surgeon]

If you are going for the flat, I agree with you.  Nice that Costco will trim it for you.  Sams won't.  Curious, do they charge you for the price before they trim, or after?

Made up some country style ribs and chicken thighs on Sunday.  Outstanding.

If you are into bbq sauce, Famous Dave Anderson has a really good and interesting recipe in his cookbook.  It was written after he departed FD's as an Exec.  It's made only in part with some of his Texas Pit sauce, plus some other nummy ingredients.  Highly recommended.

Costco just charges more per lb. for the flat than the whole untrimmed brisket.  That's why I'm saying, either pay less for the whole dog and trim away or pay more for the flat.

I will be checking out the sauce.  I have been a huge fan of stubs original-could almost drink the stuff straight up with a pork chop stir stick

[Spotcheck Billy]

this is a pretty good site to get sauces, rubs etc. that aren't sold nearby: http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com/

[real chili 83]

this is a pretty good site to get sauces, rubs etc. that aren't sold nearby: http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com/

Very cool.

[rocket surgeon]

this is a pretty good site to get sauces, rubs etc. that aren't sold nearby: http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com/

Looks like a candy store for smokers, Ayn'a?   +++ BOING!! 

[Benny B]

Belly bacon porn.

10.5 lbs. divided in three.  6-7 days in dry cure (1/2 oz TQ + 1/2 oz brown sugar per pound) in fridge.

[real chili 83]

Belly bacon porn.

10.5 lbs. divided in three.  6-7 days in dry cure (1/2 oz TQ + 1/2 oz brown sugar per pound) in fridge.

Good luck.  Dry rub can be tricky, as it can create hot spots with the cure.  That's why I do the liquid brine.  Let me know how it turns out. 

[rocket surgeon]

Belly bacon porn.

10.5 lbs. divided in three.  6-7 days in dry cure (1/2 oz TQ + 1/2 oz brown sugar per pound) in fridge.

Very interested in this one as well.  Did you tumble it in the rub or just rub it in really really well.  So next Friday or Saturday?  Then smoke away?  Somehow, I seem to think this could end up less salty, but don't want any hot spots

[Benny B]

Dry cure is a bit of a misnomer... as RC said, it's more of a dry rub than a dry cure.  After a few minutes of working the cure in, it goes into a ziploc bag and I vacuum out the air.  So here I am 12 hours later, and there's already a layer of moisture surrounding the belly, which creates something of a "mini" brine and allows the cure to even out, thus avoiding hot spots.  Plus, every 12 hours you have to take it out of the fridge, flip it over, work the juices around and put it back in... making hotspots nearly impossible to form.  Eventually, all of the juices should be taken back up, so the flip/rub/replace is essential during the first 3-4 days.

Next Friday, I'll take it out, soak in ice water for 30-60 mins, do a fry test (soak longer if too salty), and then I'll rack it in the beer fridge (actually the fermentation chamber) for 24 hours to let it dry out.  Either Sat night or Sun morning, I'll throw it on the smoker at 130-140 for 2-3 hours, baste it with a dilute maple syrup glaze, then 2-3 more hours (or whenever I get back to it.). Then it goes into the freezer for 3 hours and it should be ready to slice for Monday morning breakfast.

[rocket surgeon]

Dry cure is a bit of a misnomer... as RC said, it's more of a dry rub than a dry cure.  After a few minutes of working the cure in, it goes into a ziploc bag and I vacuum out the air.  So here I am 12 hours later, and there's already a layer of moisture surrounding the belly, which creates something of a "mini" brine and allows the cure to even out, thus avoiding hot spots.  Plus, every 12 hours you have to take it out of the fridge, flip it over, work the juices around and put it back in... making hotspots nearly impossible to form.  Eventually, all of the juices should be taken back up, so the flip/rub/replace is essential during the first 3-4 days.

Next Friday, I'll take it out, soak in ice water for 30-60 mins, do a fry test (soak longer if too salty), and then I'll rack it in the beer fridge (actually the fermentation chamber) for 24 hours to let it dry out.  Either Sat night or Sun morning, I'll throw it on the smoker at 130-140 for 2-3 hours, baste it with a dilute maple syrup glaze, then 2-3 more hours (or whenever I get back to it.). Then it goes into the freezer for 3 hours and it should be ready to slice for Monday morning breakfast.

So you done this one before?  Sounds a little more "labor intensive", not that I'm complaining though.  Have you done the other method/brine method and/or do you have an opinion on each as for preference and taste?

[Benny B]

So you done this one before?

Nope. Using a brand new pork belly this time.

[Benny B]

Sounds a little more "labor intensive", not that I'm complaining though.  Have you done the other method/brine method and/or do you have an opinion on each as for preference and taste?

IMO, brining is fine when foods a) don't already have high moisture content and b) won't fit into a ziploc bag.  If I wanted to cure the belly as a slab, then I would have brined; however, in this case, the belly has enough of its own juices that if I cut it down to size, there was no need to adulterate it with water.  Not to mention, the more moisture I add, the longer I have to rack it, because moisture is the enemy when it comes to imparting smoke to the meat.

The only added labor is the flip/rub/replace, and that takes 30 seconds twice a day.  (Just cut your brushing time by a minute if thats too much). Everything else I would do the same except, as mentioned, if I brined, it would have to rack for 48-72 hours.   

[real chili 83]

I'm curious to hear how your bacon turns out.

You are right about moisture and smoke.

With my brine recipe, it turns out great.  The only accommodation I make is to rinse it after it is sliced. Otherwise it is too salty for my taste.

One thing you will notice is that your bacon won't pop and sizzle in the pan.  That's because commercial bacon has water injected into it.  Thus the mess on your stove. 

Baaaaconnnn.

[Benny B]

I'm curious to hear how your bacon turns out.

You are right about moisture and smoke.

With my brine recipe, it turns out great.  The only accommodation I make is to rinse it after it is sliced. Otherwise it is too salty for my taste.

One thing you will notice is that your bacon won't pop and sizzle in the pan.  That's because commercial bacon has water injected into it.  Thus the mess on your stove. 

Baaaaconnnn.

I forgot to post the picture with my post from last night, so once I get it up here, you'll see that my belly is essentially in a brine solution as it is.

Out of curiosity, how thick do you slice and and how long do you rinse to make a meaningful difference?  I'm not up on the chemistry of swine fat, but I would think the osmotic action necessary to draw out the salt would take more than a simple pass through running water.  Nevertheless, this is why I do the fry test after pulling it out of the bags, and instead of having to rinse 80-100 slices of bacon, I'll soak it in cold water before it hits the smoker fry testing and soaking again if necessary until it hits the desired level of saltiness.

Cold soak, rinsing; tomato, tomahto.... both function to remove salt.

However, there's one major advantage to soaking instead of rinsing: I'm not reintroducing water to the bacon after smoking, which, being much more familiar with microbiology than swine physiology, will shorten the shelf-life of the bacon (because those self-lusting, single-cell bugs both hate salt and love moisture).  Creating a more hospitable medium for bacteria isn't an issue if you freeze or fry right away, but since smoke creates a hydrophobic barrier that essentially "locks in" the salt... so if the bacon is too salty after smoking (which draws out more moisture, thus concentrating the flavors from the earlier fry test and making it even saltier) - depending on how far the smoke permeates - rinsing may not even be an option at that point.

All this is not to say dry curing is better; brining is a perfectly fine method.  Just like dry-aging vs. wet-aging beef... method aside, in the end, you still have something that's going to mix with a little fire to put a smile on your face (and a party in your tummy).