1974?

[Lennys Tap]

4 ever

Your notes on the three games are once again spot on.

Keefe

Al did not choke in 1974. Lost to a better team and think his t's put blame on him and not the team. It actually was unselfish move by Al because we were outmanned that day and fighting home crowd.

Goose,

I'm a little fuzzy on 74, but as I recall the game was very tight in the first half. We were up 4 or 5, NC State went on a run to take maybe a 2 or 3 point lead. Al got the Ts to make it 8 or 9 just before halftime. the game stayed in the 6-13 point range the rest of the way. We were a longshot, not the better team, but the technicals cost us whatever chance we had. Anything can happen in a tight game down the stretch - I think Al might have stolen one from Norm Sloan if it had been close at the end.

[The Love House]

... what about the way the student body felt about turning down the NCAA bid?

This photo of Schroeder Hall from the 1970 yearbook should answer your question...click to enlarge.

[4everwarriors]

Was that on an all girls floor? Actually, pretty sure Schroeder was all male in 1970, hey?

[DoggyDaddy]

Yea, NC State had essentially a home game, 7'4'' Tom Burleson and the almighty David Thompson--the DWade of his era, but the guy who really beat us was Monte Towe, State's little point guard who avoided traps all night long and kept feeding Thompson and Burleson.
Al said it best: the short kid killed us.
          

[GooooMarquette]

Goose,

I'm a little fuzzy on 74, but as I recall the game was very tight in the first half. We were up 4 or 5, NC State went on a run to take maybe a 2 or 3 point lead. Al got the Ts to make it 8 or 9 just before halftime. the game stayed in the 6-13 point range the rest of the way. We were a longshot, not the better team, but the technicals cost us whatever chance we had. Anything can happen in a tight game down the stretch - I think Al might have stolen one from Norm Sloan if it had been close at the end.

That's how I recall it as well.  We were certainly the underdog after NC St. beat UCLA, but my recollection was that Al's Ts turned a close game into a comfortable lead that NC St. never gave up.

[The Love House]

Once again from the yearbook, the image below is a great summary of the 1970 decision with commentary on the matter from the NCAA, McGuire, Adolph Rupp and MU players. McGuire believed that Adolph Rupp influenced the selection committee into moving Marquette out of his region because Rupp was afraid to play MU, having been knocked of the tourney by them in 1969 in Madison. It was the pinnacle of a long-standing feud between McGuire and Rupp.

My favorite McGuire quote: "If you slap me, I'm going to punch you."

Click to enlarge.

[GGGG]

Once again from the yearbook, the image below is a great summary of the 1970 decision with commentary on the matter from the NCAA, McGuire, Adolph Rupp and MU players. McGuire believed that Adolf Rupp influenced the selection committee into moving Marquette out of his region because Rupp was afraid to play MU, having been knocked of the tourney by them in 1969 in Madison. It was the pinnacle of a long-standing feud between McGuire and Rupp.

My favorite McGuire quote: "If you slap me, I'm going to punch you."

Click to enlarge.

That is hilarious.  Thanks for sharing.

On the one hand, I can see why the selection committee voted the way they did since ND won the head to head.

On the other, having an SEC athletic director chairing the committee certainly ads to the conspiracy.

[Nukem2]

That's how I recall it as well.  We were certainly the underdog after NC St. beat UCLA, but my recollection was that Al's Ts turned a close game into a comfortable lead that NC St. never gave up.

It was a tight game.  Al's T's were the difference.  If not for those, I think MU had a legit shot in that game.

[The Love House]

That's how I recall it as well.  We were certainly the underdog after NC St. beat UCLA, but my recollection was that Al's Ts turned a close game into a comfortable lead that NC St. never gave up.

Even McGuire admitted after the 1974 loss to NC St that he thought his technicals cost us the game. Unfortunately, it would not be the last time his temper arguably cost us a shot at the national title. He essentially did the same thing in 1976 against Indiana. The first two images below are articles from the Milwaukee Journal after each of those games. If you also want to throw in the 1970 decision to go the NIT instead of the NCAA (fueled mostly by McGuire ego), you could make an argument that Al's temper potentially cost us 3 national championships.  That 1970 team was loaded and one of the top 2 or 3 in the nation. The third image below is again from the 1970 yearbook where opposing coaches talk about MU as a powerhouse in 1970 that could have beaten any team.

So...did McGuire's temper potentially cost us not one, not two, but possibly even 3 national championships????  Now THERE'S an interesting off-season topic of discussion!

[Goose]

I feel both in '74 and '76 Al took the blame for the loss because he did not want to admit we lost to better teams. If we played Indaina ten times in '76 I think we maybe we beat them three times. That team was stacked and we never should have been playing them before the championship game that year.

Al got life better than all of us combined and I will die believing he purposely took those T's to make it look like he cost us the games.

[brandx]

I feel both in '74 and '76 Al took the blame for the loss because he did not want to admit we lost to better teams. If we played Indaina ten times in '76 I think we maybe we beat them three times. That team was stacked and we never should have been playing them before the championship game that year.

Al got life better than all of us combined and I will die believing he purposely took those T's to make it look like he cost us the games.

Outside of UCLA, IU in '76 was one of the better college teams ever.

[The Love House]

I feel both in '74 and '76 Al took the blame for the loss because he did not want to admit we lost to better teams. If we played Indaina ten times in '76 I think we maybe we beat them three times. That team was stacked and we never should have been playing them before the championship game that year.

Al got life better than all of us combined and I will die believing he purposely took those T's to make it look like he cost us the games.

Point well taken, and I hope you're right. But I really don't think there was that much forethought or strategy behind the technicals. I think he just couldn't control himself. In the '76 tourney, we were down only 3 points with 25 seconds left. That's an eternity in basketball. The game was still very much in doubt. I don't mean to be sacrilegious, but you've got to be smarter in that situation than to ask a referee how much he makes and then offer to bet him. You KNOW you're going to get a technical. You are basically asking to lose the game.

[MUfan12]

This is a great thread.

I said after Untucked was released, that they could have done a full length 30 for 30 on Marquette under Al. So many compelling stories, and amazing contrasts from that era. I don't know if anything can come close to it, especially now that we're in the power football conference era.

[GooooMarquette]

I feel both in '74 and '76 Al took the blame for the loss because he did not want to admit we lost to better teams. If we played Indaina ten times in '76 I think we maybe we beat them three times. That team was stacked and we never should have been playing them before the championship game that year.

Al got life better than all of us combined and I will die believing he purposely took those T's to make it look like he cost us the games.

I could maybe see Al intentionally getting the T with 25 seconds to go against Indiana - maybe he decided Bo's missed shot was our last chance - so he'd have the excuse. 

But the Ts against NC St. came in the first half, when the game was still very close.  Are you saying that even before halftime, in a close game, Al was so certain we were eventually going to lose that he purposely got the Ts to create an excuse?  That one I don't buy for a minute.

[GGGG]

I could maybe see Al intentionally getting the T with 25 seconds to go against Indiana - maybe he decided Bo's missed shot was our last chance - so he'd have the excuse. 

But the Ts against NC St. came in the first half, when the game was still very close.  Are you saying that even before halftime, in a close game, Al was so certain we were eventually going to lose that he purposely got the Ts to create an excuse?  That one I don't buy for a minute.

No I think what Goose is saying is that Al said "I cost us the game" not necessarily because he thought he cost MU the game, but because he didn't want to imply "I don't think those technicals cost us the game.  Indiana/NC State was just a better team."

IOW, what Al said shouldn't be used as evidence as to whether or not it truly cost MU those game.

[The Love House]

Some great images I found from the 1974 Final Four game against Kansas. Please don't copy them as I don't own the rights. Enjoy...

[The Love House]

And some images from the 1974 Championship game. Again, please don't copy them.

[Goose]

GoooMarquette

I do not think Al made excuse for anything he ever did in life. I believe he felt those T's deflected attention away from the players and onto him. Do not think it was intentional attempt to try to build an excuse. He lost his cool and cost us some points in '74 but we were not going to win that game with or without the T's IMO. Nobody wanted to win more than Al and no one was more realistic in chances of winning than Al.

The guy flat out knew the angles and did not sugar coat things. He knew when he was in a fight he could win and one he could not.

[GooooMarquette]

GoooMarquette

I do not think Al made excuse for anything he ever did in life. I believe he felt those T's deflected attention away from the players and onto him. Do not think it was intentional attempt to try to build an excuse. He lost his cool and cost us some points in '74 but we were not going to win that game with or without the T's IMO. Nobody wanted to win more than Al and no one was more realistic in chances of winning than Al.

The guy flat out knew the angles and did not sugar coat things. He knew when he was in a fight he could win and one he could not.

I agree with that - that he got the Ts because he lost his cool.  I did not agree with your previous statement that Al "purposely took those Ts to make it look like he cost us those games."

Getting the Ts was an emotional response - taking the blame was the purposeful part.

[4everwarriors]

Any y'all got pictures of Crean leadin' our team in battle durin' the 2003 Final Four?

[Galway Eagle]

Great hearing this from everyone.  Love hearing these stories

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is a great thread.

I said after Untucked was released, that they could have done a full length 30 for 30 on Marquette under Al. So many compelling stories, and amazing contrasts from that era. I don't know if anything can come close to it, especially now that we're in the power football conference era.

I worked hard to try and get that to happen several years ago with ESPN, but just couldn't pull it together.  If you recall, they were doing a number of series through EOE (Espn Original Entertainment).  When I was in Chicago last week one of the guys I met with was a former producer for EOE and he had an Al McGuire photo in his office on his wall.  Went down memory lane a bit about why ESPN never did an hour with Al.  My arguments back then were you still had some of his peers alive, take advantage of it.  Hank, Rick, the players, Louie, Dean, etc.  Ray Meyer had passed and others weren't exactly spring chickens or in good health.  Sure enough, fast forward a few years and a number of those folks have died.

Disappointing, it was a project that I felt could be done, was worth doing, but there were many of those types of projects and it didn't happen.  Maybe down the road someone will do one, but with the loss of life and memories (and great stories), I'm not sure how compelling it could be now.

[nycwarrior]

This is the most enjoyable thread I've read on muscoop in at least a year.

[GooooMarquette]

Chicos - When I read the 30 for 30 suggestion, I had the same thought...that it would have had to happen while guys like Hank and Rick were still alive.  Somehow, I can't imagine it being nearly as enjoyable if the commentary came from Bob Knight, Dukie V and Digger Phelps.

[Goose]

I agree that there are still enough great guys alive to tell the stories. Few have better Al stories than Dick Enberg, Herb Kohl and the many long time close friends if his still alive. I could listen to Al stories non ball related all night and you could do that many nights without hearing same story twice. Truthfully, just hearing stories about nights at the Lime House in Brookfield could fill a lot of nights over cocktails.