1974?

[Galway Eagle]

So my uncle was telling me some old stories about how when he was younger around Milwaukee he'd always go to MU games and cheer for them (this is clearly before him, his wife and both his kids went to UW).  But it got me curious if any of you could give me some insight into the feeling of that game? Were we the underdogs? Were we a Cinderella story that year?  Did we choke?  Etc.  

And for that matter some info on the other years would be great! What happened against OSU that ruined our perfect year? Were the students Pi$$ed we rejected the NCAA tournament? Or 1976 were we supposed to beat the undefeated IU team or was that like the match of the year?

[keefe]

So my uncle was telling me some old stories about how when he was younger around Milwaukee he'd always go to MU games and cheer for them (this is clearly before him, his wife and both his kids went to UW).  But it got me curious if any of you could give me some insight into the feeling of that game? Were we the underdogs? Were we a Cinderella story that year?  Did we choke?  Etc.   

Al choked.

But we were underdogs. Two words: David Thompson.

[Galway Eagle]

Al choked.

But we were underdogs. Two words: David Thompson.

It was basically a home game for them also right? Also think we would have beaten UCLA if they had won against NC State?

[4everwarriors]

I know all the answers

[real chili 83]

I know all the answers

Do share, Obi Wan.

[4everwarriors]

vs NCST
Virtually no chance from the get go in Greensboro. In the semis NCST took down UCLA and we did what Crean didn't have a clue about, i.e. beating Kansas. But, on championship Monday, Thompson was too much.

vs tOSU
In Athens, GA and I was in attendance. 39 game winning streak was history when #14 (RIP) fouled out on a bullchit charging call with about 4-5 min. left. He had never fouled out of either a high school or college game to that point. This was about the lowest I've ever felt following a loss. Thought we could have beaten any team that year includin' UCLA. felt terrible for #22, #14, #12, et al. Had no interest in watching the second game even tough UK lost to WKU.

vs IU
I was present in Baton Rouge for #1 vs #2.  Many thought this was the real national championship game. Close game throughout. MU couldn't capitalize on Hoosier foul trouble enough to take out May, Benson, and Buckner.

[Galway Eagle]

Great info thanks for sharing! And finally what about the way the student body felt about turning down the NCAA bid? Cause I mean the scores in the NIT tournament were pretty lopsided showing we probably could've done great in the NCAA tournament

[4everwarriors]

Students were firmly behind and trusting of Al. Part of the allure of McGuire was the unpredictibility andmaverick in him. Besides, the NIT had more prestige then, than now.

[bilsu]

We were down in the game, but not by a lot when McGuire got two technicals which pretty much did us in. We were lucky to get to the final 4 as Lucas fouled out in the great 8 game. Homan came in for Lucas and had the game of his life. At least that is what I was told. I was travelling at that time and did not get to watch the game.

[Galway Eagle]

Students were firmly behind and trusting of Al. Part of the allure of McGuire was the unpredictibility andmaverick in him. Besides, the NIT had more prestige then, than now.

Were we good enough that year to legitimately challenge for the title or final four?
 

[dgies9156]

Were we good enough that year to legitimately challenge for the title or final four?
 

No.

UCLA was incredible in those years. I believe it was post Kareem Abdul Jabaar and pre-Bill Walton. It was the Steve Patterson teams and John Wooden was an unbelievable coach. He got 180% or more from every player on the team. It was hard to hate UCLA because you watched in awe of what Wooden's teams were able to do.

Plus, in those days, the NCAA was a 24 team tournament. If you weren't a conference champion or a very highly regarded independent, you didn't go to the NCAA. As a result, the NIT was probably as good a tournament as the NCAA and the quality of the teams were wonderful.

[Benny B]

Students were firmly behind and trusting of Al. Part of the allure of McGuire was the unpredictibility andmaverick in him. Besides, the NIT had more prestige then, than now.

Not only did it have more prestige, but it had more exposure; simply put, the NCAA wasn't televised like it is today, and the NIT - being in the media epicenter of the United States - was broadcast to many more households than most, if not all, NCAA games.

[GGGG]

In 1970, where was Marquette placed that got Al all riled up?  He wanted to be in the mideast where Iowa was given the de facto #1 seed right?

[dgies9156]

Students were firmly behind and trusting of Al. Part of the allure of McGuire was the unpredictibility andmaverick in him. Besides, the NIT had more prestige then, than now.

It was a different world then. There was no internet and no big-time recruiting services that said so and so was going to such and such university. Tweets were what birds did, not what teen-aged basketball players did when coaches expressed interest.

We discussed this once before on Scoop, but if the internet, facebook and tweets, texting and other social media existed in the 1970s, I'm not sure how Al would have been perceived.

I can only imagine a 1974 Scoop when Al took the second technical at Greensboro against NC State. It would have been vicious.

[dgies9156]

In 1970, where was Marquette placed that got Al all riled up?  He wanted to be in the mideast where Iowa was given the de facto #1 seed right?

Midwest regional.

Al was angry because the University of Notre Dame was given the Mideast slot and we were sent further away from our fans. We beat ND that year, as I recall.

The NCAA did not particularly like Al and this was Al's way of getting back at them.

By the way, they did not seed the tournament back then. Major independents, like Marquette, played mid-major conferences (like the Ohio Valley or MAC) in the first round. The winner played the SEC or Big 10. SEC and Big 10 teams got byes in the first round.

[dgies9156]

vs tOSU
In Athens, GA and I was in attendance. 39 game winning streak was history when #14 (RIP) fouled out on a bullchit charging call with about 4-5 min. left. He had never fouled out of either a high school or college game to that point. This was about the lowest I've ever felt following a loss. Thought we could have beaten any team that year includin' UCLA. felt terrible for #22, #14, #12, et al. Had no interest in watching the second game even tough UK lost to WKU.

Second worst MU game ever (seems like a broken record with tOSU). Worst MU game ever was in March 1978 against Miami of Ohio.

That game never should have happened. At least against tOSU, we lost to an equal (a Big 10 school).

[GGGG]

Earlier you said that you didn't think we could get to the Final Four that year.  But that year New Mexico State got to the Final Four from the midwest.  You don't think Marquette could have gotten past them?

(I agree that they wouldn't have beaten UCLA.)

BTW, the leading scorer on that New Mexico State team was Jimmy Collins.  The same Jimmy Collins that Bruce Pearl turned in when Collins was an assistant at Illinois, and then feuded with Pearl when they were coaching UIC and UWM.

[oldwarrior81]

in 1970 Marquette was ranked #8 with a 22-3 record.

Jacksonville (25-1 led by Artis Gilmore's 27ppg and 22rpg) was ranked #4 and got one of the two at-large bids in Dayton.  They eventually lost to UCLA in the championship game.

Notre Dame (20-6 led by Austin Carr's 38ppg) was ranked #9 and got the final at-large bid in Dayton.

Marquette was offered a spot in Fort Worth.  

Al thought MU deserved a spot in Dayton.  The second at-large would play Kentucky in the second game.  Al accused UK Coach Adolph Rupp of having the NCAA move MU out of that spot in Dayton (after MU had knocked off UK in the NCAA's the previous season).

[Lennys Tap]

Midwest regional.

Al was angry because the University of Notre Dame was given the Mideast slot and we were sent further away from our fans. We beat ND that year, as I recall.

Actually, we lost to ND in South Bend that year. We led by 2 with seconds remaining. Inbounded the ball, got mugged, no call, they score to tie, we lose in OT. I was at the game, had driven down there with three friends from MU. The driver and one of the other guys were so pissed they went back to Milwaukee immediately after the game. My roommate and I stayed to party Saturday night with a buddy of mine from ND. Hitching back to Milwaukee the next day (a typical February one in the Midwest) we wondered "What were we thinking?"

[oldwarrior81]

on paper the Midwest appeared a much easier path to the Final Four in 1970.
The auto bids went to:
Kansas State 19-7 from the Big Eight
Drake 21-6 from the Missouri Valley
Rice 14-10 from the Southwest Conference

outside of UCLA, New Mexico State was the only team west of the Mississippi ranked in the top ten at #5.  #12 Houston was the second at-large pick in the Midwest. Dayton was the substitute for Marquette.

Meanwhile, the Mideast featured 4 top 10 teams including #1 Kentucky.

NM State was lead by Coach Lou Henson and included 5 players from NYC and one from New Jersey.  Besides leading scorer Jimmy Collins they also had big man Sam Lacey that had a long NBA career and the 5' 8" waterbug Charlie Criss that also ended up in the NBA.

[brandx]

No.

UCLA was incredible in those years. I believe it was post Kareem Abdul Jabaar and pre-Bill Walton. It was the Steve Patterson teams and John Wooden was an unbelievable coach. He got 180% or more from every player on the team. It was hard to hate UCLA because you watched in awe of what Wooden's teams were able to do.

Plus, in those days, the NCAA was a 24 team tournament. If you weren't a conference champion or a very highly regarded independent, you didn't go to the NCAA. As a result, the NIT was probably as good a tournament as the NCAA and the quality of the teams were wonderful.

I think that was Wicks, Rowe, and Bibby as well. Great team.

[oldwarrior81]

what I hear from the 1971 game against Ohio State was MU built up a large lead in the first half at 22-9.  Al's maxim was when the lead got over 10 you stopped pressing.   Switching to a straight zone seemed to shift the momentum to the Buckeyes.

Combine the loss of Meminger with 5 minutes to go with the Marquette 11-21 FT shooting, Ohio State rallied back to take their first lead with about a minute to go.

With about 8 seconds to go trailing by one, Allie McGuire threw a sidecourt inbound pass to Mike Mills, Mills returned the pass but Allie hadn't set both feet inbounds before receiving the pass.  Line violation.  Ohio State ball.
 
Back in the day the NCAA tournament had a consolation game for third place in the Regions.  MU bounced back from the OSU loss to rout Kentucky 91-74.

[4everwarriors]

Tom Payne played center for Rupp

Jim McDaniel for Western was a load in that Regional also.

[augoman]

So far all the comments I've read are pretty much as I remember the games.  We students were stunned when Al turned down the NCAA, but firmly behind him.  We took on an attitude of "yeah, take that!"  Nit was a big deal then, MSG and all.  I think the lack of seeding then led to the IU early loss in what should have been the championship game.  Seem to remember a lot of 'do over' calls in IU's favor at the end of the game but not the specifics as well as 'Old Warrior' does.

[Goose]

4 ever

Your notes on the three games are once again spot on.

Keefe

Al did not choke in 1974. Lost to a better team and think his t's put blame on him and not the team. It actually was unselfish move by Al because we were outmanned that day and fighting home crowd.