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Author Topic: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations  (Read 16819 times)

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2014, 10:27:29 AM »
Question for the group:

How much does a player's role effect his efficiency (or potential efficiency)?

Example:
Jake Thomas was never born to be a world beater, but in theory, he could have been more efficient in a limited role. Same for Derrick. In theory, if Derrick's minutes decreased and his role is more limited, wouldn't his efficiency go up (but I suppose his usage would go down, right?)

Or, what about a PG who is surrounded by great players/shooters. Wouldn't his efficiency look pretty good because he would rarely have to shoot unless wide open, and he could rack up a lot of assists?


I believe your intuition in the bolded area is correct.

jesmu84

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2014, 10:28:33 AM »
Buzz's offensive statistics were the mirror opposite of his defensive stats, and they separated further the longer he was here.  Paint touches, prevent paint touches.  Get fouled, don't foul.  Take a two, make them take threes.  Low turnovers, force turnovers.

But coaches adjusted over time to him and the talent he recruited matched his philosophy for better or worse.  MU's three point shooting (rate and shooting %) declined over time, while the opponents' increased.  MU's two point field goal stats similarly increased while the two defensive stats got better as MU protected the paint.  Free throw rates were high on offense and low on defense. Same with turnovers. 

End of the day, Buzz's <over> obsession with paint touches was his strength and weakness (see Henry's previous CS article).  But his real weakness was his inability/unwillingness to adapt to his talent and game planing over time.  His over reliance on paint touches came at the loss of perspective on spacing.

The Midgets was perhaps the best coaching job I have seen, while last year's job was perhaps the biggest misuse of natural resources (usage), really starting out of the gate, and made worse by transfer and injuries.

These individual stats will be very different under the new coach mainly because of style of play. Duane will be a star, Juan will not be a PF trapped in a 2 guard's body, and Burton will be unleashed. Carlino will be the floor leader missing last year. The end record may be the same or slightly better, but the use of the resources and style of play will match the talent. But, the one thing that has to happen, that didn't last season, is this team really needs to bond together, of which, I am leery.

Agreed. Not sure there is a leader on this team. I, personally, don't think the living situation is helping. And from what I've heard about the off-season/pro-am, it's not starting out well for the players becoming a cohesive, tight unit

Lennys Tap

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2014, 11:41:07 AM »
No worries Rocky - just want to point out that once again I didn't start the "debate" again in this thread ...wasn't going to comment on Sugar's offering...but yet again others feel compelled to re-hash and provoke with their opinion on John/Derrick.  I do appreciate you realizing it takes two sides to debate/argue, and certainly Sultan, Tower, TAMU and Lenny have been the perpetuators of the debate and are just as much to blame for the discussion continuing as am I.  I appreciate you recognizing this, and placing them under the same ban warning.



Ners - do me a favor - reread your post. You have become your once arch enemy.

mu03eng

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2014, 11:44:36 AM »
Question for the group:

How much does a player's role effect his efficiency (or potential efficiency)?

Example:
Jake Thomas was never born to be a world beater, but in theory, he could have been more efficient in a limited role. Same for Derrick. In theory, if Derrick's minutes decreased and his role is more limited, wouldn't his efficiency go up (but I suppose his usage would go down, right?)

Or, what about a PG who is surrounded by great players/shooters. Wouldn't his efficiency look pretty good because he would rarely have to shoot unless wide open, and he could rack up a lot of assists?


I am curious as well how role impacts this.  Steve Taylor will definitely be playing out of position some as could Dawson and Duane(both could be PGs or SGs naturally but could play the opposites...I know I'm confused too).  Carlino for that case could be similar.  The only player we know what position he will play is Derrick Wilson, but don't know if that will impact Henry's analysis
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Lennys Tap

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2014, 11:46:13 AM »
Buzz's offensive statistics were the mirror opposite of his defensive stats, and they separated further the longer he was here.  Paint touches, prevent paint touches.  Get fouled, don't foul.  Take a two, make them take threes.  Low turnovers, force turnovers.

But coaches adjusted over time to him and the talent he recruited matched his philosophy for better or worse.  MU's three point shooting (rate and shooting %) declined over time, while the opponents' increased.  MU's two point field goal stats similarly increased while the two defensive stats got better as MU protected the paint.  Free throw rates were high on offense and low on defense. Same with turnovers. 

End of the day, Buzz's <over> obsession with paint touches was his strength and weakness (see Henry's previous CS article).  But his real weakness was his inability/unwillingness to adapt to his talent and game planing over time.  His over reliance on paint touches came at the loss of perspective on spacing.

The Midgets was perhaps the best coaching job I have seen, while last year's job was perhaps the biggest misuse of natural resources (usage), really starting out of the gate, and made worse by transfer and injuries.

These individual stats will be very different under the new coach mainly because of style of play. Duane will be a star, Juan will not be a PF trapped in a 2 guard's body, and Burton will be unleashed. Carlino will be the floor leader missing last year. The end record may be the same or slightly better, but the use of the resources and style of play will match the talent. But, the one thing that has to happen, that didn't last season, is this team really needs to bond together, of which, I am leery.

Insightful as always. Welcome back, Doctor. Any thread with you (and jajuannaman) participating is better for it.

mu03eng

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2014, 11:47:44 AM »
Agreed. Not sure there is a leader on this team. I, personally, don't think the living situation is helping. And from what I've heard about the off-season/pro-am, it's not starting out well for the players becoming a cohesive, tight unit

Three things... I feel who is the leader questions in the off-season is the forgotten meme of Scoop.  We never know who the leader is.  That living situation bugs the crap out of me, do we think with Slappy gone and new leadership coming in that things revert to the previous model?  What are you hearing about the off-season cohesion?  I've been hearing some definite cliques are forming and I'd hope Wojo would focus on that come "bootcamp" time to get that corrected.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

4everwarriors

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2014, 11:55:45 AM »
All I gotta do is watch the motherfooker for a while and I know whether he can hoop or not.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Sharpie

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2014, 12:01:01 PM »
Three things... I feel who is the leader questions in the off-season is the forgotten meme of Scoop.  We never know who the leader is.  That living situation bugs the crap out of me, do we think with Slappy gone and new leadership coming in that things revert to the previous model?  What are you hearing about the off-season cohesion?  I've been hearing some definite cliques are forming and I'd hope Wojo would focus on that come "bootcamp" time to get that corrected.

What is the word on cliques forming as I must be out of the loop. As far as interesting tweets are concerned - I thought Todd's yesterday was intriguing.

Just ready for everything to start, I feel we have grown past the trees, now the sky is the limit. #MUBB #LoveDaSquad #NoBS

GGGG

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2014, 03:29:24 PM »
No worries Rocky - just want to point out that once again I didn't start the "debate" again in this thread ...wasn't going to comment on Sugar's offering...but yet again others feel compelled to re-hash and provoke with their opinion on John/Derrick.  I do appreciate you realizing it takes two sides to debate/argue, and certainly Sultan, Tower, TAMU and Lenny have been the perpetuators of the debate and are just as much to blame for the discussion continuing as am I.  I appreciate you recognizing this, and placing them under the same ban warning.


I didn't start it, neither did Tower, TAMU or Lenny.  Willie was the one who mentioned Derrick and me specifically.  I never mentioned your name.

And no one "provoked" you.  You have the ability to not respond.

GGGG

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2014, 03:33:24 PM »
Three things... I feel who is the leader questions in the off-season is the forgotten meme of Scoop.  We never know who the leader is.  That living situation bugs the crap out of me, do we think with Slappy gone and new leadership coming in that things revert to the previous model?  What are you hearing about the off-season cohesion?  I've been hearing some definite cliques are forming and I'd hope Wojo would focus on that come "bootcamp" time to get that corrected.


Things not reverting to the previous model is one of the reasons that Buzz left.  But I am not sure what is up for the future. 

The problem with leadership IMO goes deeper than living arrangements.  We have two returning players who have been in the program going on their fourth year and neither of them are leaders.  And Taylor?  A new transfer in Carlino?

I think Deonte will eventually be that guy, but it may not be until next year.

bilsu

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2014, 09:05:10 PM »
I think a lot of Taylor's issues last year were lingering affects from his knee surgery.  I expect him to be an improved version of the freshman STJ.
I think what really had an effect on Taylor/Buzz relationship last year is the fact that Buzz pushed him to have the surgery. When Taylor did not heal quickly he blamed Buzz for pushing him to have it.

bilsu

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2014, 09:06:45 PM »
In rereading the topic of this article it struck me that this board has a lot of partially formed thoughts. ;D

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2014, 11:01:13 PM »
So one solid contributor down, but was this really a surprise with Carlino coming here?  No super senior commits to vie for playing time...and we have heard hints from Carlino that PG isn't going to be his primary spot. Duane Wilson has impressed Wojo. JJJ is the highest rated recruit in years. Rebuild now for the future with the new start. Plenty of guard depth, even to swing in Juan and Deonte.

MU is so vulnerable on the front, though. Its only two bigs are returning after extensive orthopedic issues, with long rehabs, and ups and downs. Be worried.

Last losing season was 15 years ago folks.  Nuclear winter.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 09:06:35 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

BCHoopster

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Re: Partially Formed Thoughts on Next Year's Expectations
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2014, 12:07:07 AM »
They will be fun to watch, wide open offense, even when Fisher comes into the picture.  Have 7 out of 10 returnees in 2015, add Heldt, Nick and Levin. Maybe a few others, and you can have
a starting line-up of Fisher, Burton, Levin upfront with Taylor and Heldt as back-ups, then Dawson, Duane, JJJ and Nick at the guards and it looks promising.  Cohen and Wally who knows,
but add Henry and one of the 5 or 6 guards they are recruiting and 2015 would look very promising, even more so in 2016.