Death of Playground Basketball

[mu03eng]

Chico's,

You've officially turned into Skip Bayless. Congrats.

You're a smart guy, but every topic/subject/post becomes about you personally... not unlike Skip.

+1000000

Yes I recognize responding to this feeds the beast, but Ammo's statement must be supported 

[GGGG]

Our town has a summer program thru the rec department titled 'Baseball for the fun of it.' The program is distinct from little league and entails pre-teens meeting at the little league diamond in the afternoon, where a high school kid organizes ball games. I find the title and concept of this officially structured program ironic, funny and absurd. The same exact thing existed when I was a kid, but my folks never had to pay $$ for me to participate. Kids ran it and whoever showed up at the field to play, played.  

Part of the reason you did that was because there was nothing to do in the house and you wanted to have some social interaction.  Kids can be entertained, and have some level of social interaction, without leaving the house now.

Look, having parents organize their kids athletic events is better, much better, than having kids who aren't active.  But if you think that kids are just going to revert back to the days of pick up baseball and the like...well, its not going to happen.

I think if the internet existed 100 years ago, it would be filled with old guys bitching about how pathetic it is that kids just waste their summer playing games instead of working in the fields like they used to do.

[Boone]

Sure, but was just commenting on how much things have changed when something billed as 'fun' now has to be organized and paid for.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think it's worth discussing if it's right or wrong.  I think that is one of the key drivers in that so many parents are trying to prevent bad things in life from happening to their kids that they prevent life from happening to their kids.

If you don't know the bad, you don't appreciate the good.  I really do think with creation of this data and communications we have given the illusion of full control of things when really we don't have any more control on life happening than we did before.

Just my 2 cents

You're right, you have to allow your children some amount of risk in order to develop their ability to function and develop decision making skills.

I just think Parents become paralyzed because what if something catastrophic happens? The "what it" terrifies a lot of parents.

My friends and I were using power tools at 12 years old to build stuff (unsupervised). It was an excellent exercise in creativity, team work, project planning, delayed gratification, etc.

However, if you look at what we were doing, most parents (today) would argue that handing a 12 year old a circular saw isn't worth the risk. If a kid cuts off his finger, most people would immediately blame the parent for handing the kid a saw and walking away. The reality is, this is a grey area. How much risk are we willing to accept to help our kids develop?

[Lennys Tap]

My two cents:

Normal for people to look back on "their time" (childhood, young adulthood, etc.,) as the best of times. I wouldn't trade "my time" for my kid's or grandkid's. That said, the country we live in today is a better place than the one of my youth - more open, more honest, more fair. I agree that progress can also create new problems (being "connected" is great but can be overdone). And that all "change" isn't progress. It's great that parents are closer to their kids with each new generation, but not so great that parents want to be best friends with or hover over their kids.

Bottom line: Want to reminisce about the "good old days"? Fine. Want to be bitter about the present? Not so good.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's,

You've officially turned into Skip Bayless. Congrats.

You're a smart guy, but every topic/subject/post becomes about you personally... not unlike Skip.

Ignore me, pretty simple.

Unlike Skippy, I try to be accurate. Same as in this case, people get all hot and bothered when someone says life was better back in the day.  Fair warning is what I gave out.  Don't like it, ignore me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My two cents:

Normal for people to look back on "their time" (childhood, young adulthood, etc.,) as the best of times. I wouldn't trade "my time" for my kid's or grandkid's. That said, the country we live in today is a better place than the one of my youth - more open, more honest, more fair. I agree that progress can also create new problems (being "connected" is great but can be overdone). And that all "change" isn't progress. It's great that parents are closer to their kids with each new generation, but not so great that parents want to be best friends with or hover over their kids.

Many people of your advanced age don't agree Lenny.  Like some of the WWII and Korean War vets that I have the pleasure of being with each year.  Of course, BrandX and Sultan will call my wife and I a liar when I say that.  Wish they could be there each July 4th, maybe they can come out and hear it for themselves.

I'm enjoying your fine city of Chicago, today, Lenny.  Cool temps, not too bad on the humidity. 

[GGGG]

My two cents:

Normal for people to look back on "their time" (childhood, young adulthood, etc.,) as the best of times. I wouldn't trade "my time" for my kid's or grandkid's. That said, the country we live in today is a better place than the one of my youth - more open, more honest, more fair. I agree that progress can also create new problems (being "connected" is great but can be overdone). And that all "change" isn't progress. It's great that parents are closer to their kids with each new generation, but not so great that parents want to be best friends with or hover over their kids.

Exactly.  Not better.  Not worse.  Just different.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ignore me, pretty simple.

Unlike Skippy, I try to be accurate. Same as in this case, people get all hot and bothered when someone says life was better back in the day.  Fair warning is what I gave out.  Don't like it, ignore me.

Your response is "Ignore me!"?

Why have you gone full heel? What's the deal? Is it more fun for you to be hated?

I'm all for a good debate and discussion (some smart guys around here), but you've become a parody of yourself. You're smarter than that.

Why do you want to be a joke? Why do you want to be ignored?

[tower912]

IMO, CBB has jumped the shark.   I have put him on ignore many times over the years, but relented after a few days/weeks.    It is going to be quite a while this time.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your response is "Ignore me!"?

Why have you gone full heel? What's the deal? Is it more fun for you to be hated?

I'm all for a good debate and discussion (some smart guys around here), but you've become a parody of yourself. You're smarter than that.

Why do you want to be a joke? Why do you want to be ignored?

Hated?  Nah.  If people want to hate, that is their issue.  Nothing going to stop hatred if it is in man's heart, nor would I want to deal with anyone that has hatred in the heart.  No point.

I have my opinions, you have yours.  If you don't like mine, that's fine.  I only have two people on ignore, Brandx and Sultan, not because I don't think they are smart guys, but when they call my wife a liar and don't apologize I'm just not going to read their crap. 

If my commentary bothers you, just put me on ignore.  It's not that hard.  I made an honest comment that some people will give some of you crap for harking back to the old days.  It was truthful and you know it was accurate....well, in actuality it all depends here on who says the what, not what is said.  So perhaps some of you would get a pass.  If my comments cause you angst or hatred or whatever, you should put me on ignore.

Doesn't particularly matter, as stated after today spinning up on a new role that will suck great amount of time for me anyway, so you'll see much less of me.  For you and others, I'm sure that is a welcome relief.

[GGGG]

Someone tell Chicos that I am sorry for hurting his feelings, but I truly think he was lying.  (And that is the last I will say on that subject.)

[brandx]

Your response is "Ignore me!"?

Why have you gone full heel? What's the deal? Is it more fun for you to be hated?

I'm all for a good debate and discussion (some smart guys around here), but you've become a parody of yourself. You're smarter than that.

Why do you want to be a joke? Why do you want to be ignored?

It's what he does. I tried to have normal discussions, but even when I agreed, he'd turn the subject around just so he could disagree.

He has gotten to the point when everyone other than a few who agree with his politics think he is a joke.

[swoopem]

I've actually enjoyed Chicos quite a bit this offseason. The superbar has become very entertaining.

[brandx]

Many people of your advanced age don't agree Lenny.  Like some of the WWII and Korean War vets that I have the pleasure of being with each year.  Of course, BrandX and Sultan will call my wife and I a liar when I say that.  Wish they could be there each July 4th, maybe they can come out and hear it for themselves.

I'm enjoying your fine city of Chicago, today, Lenny.  Cool temps, not too bad on the humidity.  

Here we go again - another Strawman!!!!

Why would I say that? Simple answer - paranoia.

What we say is that he takes one example or happenstance of anything and makes it an unquestionable fact. Then argues against anyone who doesn't totally accept it.

So some people think the olden days were better. That's fine. But his paranoid mind cannot accept the fact that this just means that some people think the olden days were better. Not everyone, not the majority - just some people.

Then somehow his persecuted brain turns it into me calling him and his wife liars because we think right now is a great time.

[Lennys Tap]

Many people of your advanced age don't agree Lenny.  Like some of the WWII and Korean War vets that I have the pleasure of being with each year.  Of course, BrandX and Sultan will call my wife and I a liar when I say that.  Wish they could be there each July 4th, maybe they can come out and hear it for themselves.

I'm enjoying your fine city of Chicago, today, Lenny.  Cool temps, not too bad on the humidity.  

Welcome to Chicago, Chico. Hope you have a pleasant and prosperous stay.

I don't deny that you breakfast with WWII and Korean vets one day each year. I don't deny that in a group of men aged 80-95 you'll find some unhappy people. "What's become of this country that's no longer mine and I don't understand? It was better in my day" is a common lament of the elderly in every generation. They're wrong, of course, as was every generation before them with the same complaints about the USA. Sad, but often a natural and normal part of growing old. Much sadder, though, when seen in a young man like yourself.

[brandx]

Welcome to Chicago, Chico. Hope you have a pleasant and prosperous stay.

I don't deny that you breakfast with WWII and Korean vets one day each year. I don't deny that in a group 0f men aged 80-95 you'll find some unhappy people. "What's become of this country that's no longer mine and I don't understand? It was better in my day" is a common lament of the elderly in every generation. They're wrong, of course, as was every generation before them with the same complaints about the USA. Sad, but often a natural and normal part of growing old. Much sadder, though, when seen in a young man like yourself.

You're going on ignore, buddy

You just called Chico's wife a liar!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Hated?  Nah.  If people want to hate, that is their issue.  Nothing going to stop hatred if it is in man's heart, nor would I want to deal with anyone that has hatred in the heart.  No point.

I have my opinions, you have yours.  If you don't like mine, that's fine.  I only have two people on ignore, Brandx and Sultan, not because I don't think they are smart guys, but when they call my wife a liar and don't apologize I'm just not going to read their crap.  

If my commentary bothers you, just put me on ignore.  It's not that hard.  I made an honest comment that some people will give some of you crap for harking back to the old days.  It was truthful and you know it was accurate....well, in actuality it all depends here on who says the what, not what is said.  So perhaps some of you would get a pass.  If my comments cause you angst or hatred or whatever, you should put me on ignore.

Doesn't particularly matter, as stated after today spinning up on a new role that will suck great amount of time for me anyway, so you'll see much less of me.  For you and others, I'm sure that is a welcome relief.

EDIT:

Forget it.

Shouldn't have a personal discussion like this on a forum.

Chico's, if you want to discuss further, you can PM me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Welcome to Chicago, Chico. Hope you have a pleasant and prosperous stay.

I don't deny that you breakfast with WWII and Korean vets one day each year. I don't deny that in a group of men aged 80-95 you'll find some unhappy people. "What's become of this country that's no longer mine and I don't understand? It was better in my day" is a common lament of the elderly in every generation. They're wrong, of course, as was every generation before them with the same complaints about the USA. Sad, but often a natural and normal part of growing old. Much sadder, though, when seen in a young man like yourself.

Thank you for the well wishes.

Secondly, thank you for acknowledging that such conversations exist without throwing out liar claims.  To be more accurate, they happen more than just one occasion a year, but that happened to be the situation I was talking about.

Where I differ from you is that you say they are wrong. In my view, to answer that question all comes down to one's life experience.  It may be wrong in your experience, it may be dead right for someone else's.  At a macro level, these particular men were extremely disappointed in how things have turned out.  Let's not get into race and progress in those areas, I'm sure they would wholeheartedly agree and that may be how you are judging society as a whole in your views.  That's fine.  The feel that my wife and I got from them was in societal views in general.  How man treats man, lack of personal responsibility, discipline, me first materialism, the beating down of religious values, etc.  In their view, that is what has happened and if that's what they believe, how can they be wrong?  This isn't a math exercise where only one answer exists that is right or wrong.

As for my views, I've stated them before.  I absolutely believe life was better based on listening to my elders, not ignoring them.  Going through my own experiences.  Some of it is brought upon ourselves because there is so much information out there today that we are over stimulated on what could go wrong.  I recognize that.  Of course there were sexual predators living in our zipcode 25 years ago, but now it pops up on an alert from the city.  Of course there were break ins in homes, but now you lock the door all the time when you leave and we never did as kids.  Etc, etc.  All of that is true, and we become overly protective as a result partly because the guilt of having all this information at our hands if something were to happen and we ignored it, we would feel awful.   

Finally, we will agree to disagree on whether all older folks think their past was better than the present.  You're an example of the opposite.     Certainly some fit the bill of "back in my day" things were better.  On the flip side, plenty of the older generation will also opine about how easy we have it today with technology, more holidays, etc, etc and how much better and easier things are. So it goes both ways in my opinion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Someone tell Chicos that I am sorry for hurting his feelings, but I truly think he was lying.  (And that is the last I will say on that subject.)

A friend PM'd me to unignore you so I could read this.  You didn't hurt my feelings, you were wrong.  I don't lie, or certainly don't try to.  I wasn't lying about this, you just didn't like what these vets had to say so you lashed out at the messenger.

As you once told me to do, go F yourself.       Neither you or Brandx have a right to say my wife or me are lying, you weren't there.  Period.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Of course there were break ins in homes, but now you lock the door all the time when you leave and we never did as kids.  Etc, etc.  All of that is true, and we become overly protective as a result partly because the guilt of having all this information at our hands if something were to happen and we ignored it, we would feel awful.  

I really never quite understand when people say this. I grew up in an area where folks would say it wasn't necessary to lock your doors when you left the house but we still did because guess what? There was a lock on the door. The day you leave it unlocked and someone steals your TV etc. how do explain to your insurance agent or the cops that you felt that where you lived was security enough and you didn't need no stinkin' locks? My father would have grounded us for leaving the door unlocked.

[Lennys Tap]

Where I differ from you is that you say they are wrong. In my view, to answer that question all comes down to one's life experience.  It may be wrong in your experience, it may be dead right for someone else's.  At a macro level, these particular men were extremely disappointed in how things have turned out.  Let's not get into race and progress in those areas, I'm sure they would wholeheartedly agree and that may be how you are judging society as a whole in your views.  That's fine.  The feel that my wife and I got from them was in societal views in general.  How man treats man, lack of personal responsibility, discipline, me first materialism, the beating down of religious values, etc.  In their view, that is what has happened and if that's what they believe, how can they be wrong?  This isn't a math exercise where only one answer exists that is right or wrong.

They are wrong. Their Camelot never existed. Many of them were born into a society in which half of the population couldn't vote due to their gender. The society they grew up in made sure that gender's citizenship remained second class. The country they grew up in was segregated. Minorities who sought equality were often met with brutal opposition. Homosexuals were "queers", mentally defective deviants who were tolerated only if they remained in their closets hiding. When you gloss over these horrors to praise that era for how "man treats man" I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Plenty of "religious values" and plenty of institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia. I understand that man and societies evolve - I'm not saying these men are evil. They are products of their era - mostly good men who lived in a more primitive and unjust society. Lots of problems today? Sure. SOME things worse than they were in the 40s,50s,60s, etc.? Okay. But how you, they or anybody can long for a society that by commission or omission supported so much fundamental injustice is beyond me. To me that's demonstrably wrong.

[Galway Eagle]

They are wrong. There Camelot never existed. Many of them were born into a society in which half of the population couldn't vote due to their gender. The society they grew up in made sure that gender's citizenship remained second class. The country they grew up in was segregated. Minorities who sought equality were often met with brutal opposition. Homosexuals were "queers", mentally defective deviants who were tolerated only if they remained in their closets hiding. When you gloss over these horrors to praise that era for how "man treats man" I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Plenty of "religious values" and plenty of institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia. I understand that man and societies evolve - I'm not saying these men are evil. They are products of their era - mostly good men who lived in a more primitive and unjust society. Lots of problems today? Sure. SOME things worse than they were in the 40s,50s,60s, etc.? Okay. But how you, they or anybody can long for a society that by commission or omission supported so much fundamental injustice is beyond me. To me that's demonstrably wrong.

To Chicos labeling them like that and calling their era primitive is being intolerant of these intolerant people. 

[GGGG]

They are wrong. There Camelot never existed. Many of them were born into a society in which half of the population couldn't vote due to their gender. The society they grew up in made sure that gender's citizenship remained second class. The country they grew up in was segregated. Minorities who sought equality were often met with brutal opposition. Homosexuals were "queers", mentally defective deviants who were tolerated only if they remained in their closets hiding. When you gloss over these horrors to praise that era for how "man treats man" I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Plenty of "religious values" and plenty of institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia. I understand that man and societies evolve - I'm not saying these men are evil. They are products of their era - mostly good men who lived in a more primitive and unjust society. Lots of problems today? Sure. SOME things worse than they were in the 40s,50s,60s, etc.? Okay. But how you, they or anybody can long for a society that by commission or omission supported so much fundamental injustice is beyond me. To me that's demonstrably wrong.

According to Chicos, if the lives of middle-class, heterosexual white Americans were better back in the 1950s, then the lives of *all* American were better back then.

He is living an over-romanticized version of the past.

[Lennys Tap]

As for my views, I've stated them before.  I absolutely believe life was better based on listening to my elders, not ignoring them.  Going through my own experiences.  Some of it is brought upon ourselves because there is so much information out there today that we are over stimulated on what could go wrong.  I recognize that.  Of course there were sexual predators living in our zipcode 25 years ago, but now it pops up on an alert from the city.  Of course there were break ins in homes, but now you lock the door all the time when you leave and we never did as kids.  Etc, etc.  All of that is true, and we become overly protective as a result partly because the guilt of having all this information at our hands if something were to happen and we ignored it, we would feel awful.   

Finally, we will agree to disagree on whether all older folks think their past was better than the present.  You're an example of the opposite.     Certainly some fit the bill of "back in my day" things were better.  On the flip side, plenty of the older generation will also opine about how easy we have it today with technology, more holidays, etc, etc and how much better and easier things are. So it goes both ways in my opinion.

People were blissfully ignorant about sexual predators back in the day. Unless, of course, you were the victim of one. We didn't lock our garage or our door, but we were robbed once and had a car stolen.

In general, the older folks want it both ways. They walked uphill (both ways) 5 miles to school in the snow (you kids have it so easy) but it was so much better "back in the day".