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Author Topic: espn-double standard much??  (Read 65135 times)

GGGG

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #250 on: July 25, 2014, 08:39:24 PM »
Another Chicos strawman argument....

How many people here "claimed to be tolerant?"  He's the one that goes on and on about the "tolerance lobby," but HE'S the one that brought it up in the first place.

This is so typical.  He makes sh*t up just so he can make a point.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #251 on: July 25, 2014, 08:41:35 PM »

His stance is as follows:

People who feel that homosexuals are an aberrant abomination or that a husband can order his raped wife to be stoned to death are not homophobic or misogynistic as long as they base those feelings on religious beliefs. Nor are they intolerant. The intolerant ones are those who object to those feelings.

It is amazing as a supposedly educated man how you keep missing the point, and now you take it to an extreme you know isn't the case.

ALL OF THEM ARE INTOLERANT, that's entirely the point.  You, me, everyone else.  And you can bet your bottom dollar the a-holes claiming to be the morally superior super tolerant are, in fact, the most INTOLERANT of the bunch.  Simply because by THEIR very definition of tolerance which includes religious views, etc, they ignore them completely and minimalize them.

Do I support stoning of a woman that was raped?  Of course not.  Do I think homosexuals are abhorrent to society?  Of course not.  Do I acknowledge that there are religious views that say marriage is between a man and a woman?  Yes.  Does that make them right?  Who knows, but I acknowledge those views exist and do not dismiss them out of hand.  Maybe someday we will all be judged or not judged, depending on what is real or not.  No one knows.  What I do know is that I acknowledge that people do have legitimate views grounded in religious viewpoints, while the super tolerant among us dismiss those views out of hand, DESPITE the very notion of tolerant behavior espouses to be.

Really.  Not.  Hard. 

forgetful

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #252 on: July 25, 2014, 08:41:58 PM »
LOL

Based on this post and about 3 or 4 others in this thread, you clearly haven't read a word I have said.

First of all, I have not said I am tolerant.  That is my whole point.  I'm not tolerant, I have biases and beliefs about certain things.  What I'm driving home is that others here claiming to be tolerant are just as intolerant under the definition of tolerance, the definition of bigotry, etc.  Your example in this very thread shows that to be the case.  If religious views are part of the definition of being tolerant and you are saying "no thanks", then you aren't being tolerant.

That's ok, because I think that is reality and also what I've been saying this entire thread.  What gets me wound up is all the supposed holier than thou folks who claim to be tolerant, throw out definitions and then violate the VERY DEFINITIONS they throw out. 

So stop claiming you are tolerant, because you aren't.  Just as you said, no thanks.  You aren't tolerant Lenny...which is fine.  Neither is MU82, neither is anyone else on this thread or anywhere else.  So stop shoving it down people's throats how tolerant you are, because no one is.  What troubles many people when we read this tolerant lobby bullshyte is that it is 100% bullshyte but these people proclaiming to be all tolerant don't even have the mental capacity to realize their own intolerance.

Thus, the irony remains magically delicious.

Tolerance is realizing that everyone has their beliefs and biases, but refusing to let them interrupt the ability for others to live their life without additional hurdles.

For instance, if Dungy had said, I'm a Christian, I don't believe in homosexual activity or marriage, but they are free to partake in both those activities and I would be happy to have Sam on my time, because they are entitled to their own beliefs…no problem, neither interferes with their ability to live their lives.

But when you try to restrict peoples activities based on their beliefs, there is intolerance.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #253 on: July 25, 2014, 08:49:51 PM »
you are connected to "the big bang theory"?  that is the only sit-com i really watch next to "the league" and maybe come seinfeld reruns.  but but but...that's cool!  the character development is f'ing unbelievably genius and 2nd to not many

No.  Great show, here on the television side but have nothing to do with the creation of it. 

rocket surgeon

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #254 on: July 25, 2014, 08:54:47 PM »
Tolerance is realizing that everyone has their beliefs and biases, but refusing to let them interrupt the ability for others to live their life without additional hurdles.

For instance, if Dungy had said, I'm a Christian, I don't believe in homosexual activity or marriage, but they are free to partake in both those activities and I would be happy to have Sam on my time, because they are entitled to their own beliefs…no problem, neither interferes with their ability to live their lives.

But when you try to restrict peoples activities based on their beliefs, there is intolerance.

tony d isn't restricting anyones activities.  sam and the media are restricting/narrowing sam's choices. if sam is good, he'll write his own ticket.  peoples behavior will put limitations on their options.  drinking, pot smoking, chris kluweisms... tony just said what many others were thinking.  if you don't believe that, you aren't being honest with yourslf
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #255 on: July 25, 2014, 09:12:12 PM »
Tolerance is realizing that everyone has their beliefs and biases, but refusing to let them interrupt the ability for others to live their life without additional hurdles.

For instance, if Dungy had said, I'm a Christian, I don't believe in homosexual activity or marriage, but they are free to partake in both those activities and I would be happy to have Sam on my time, because they are entitled to their own beliefs…no problem, neither interferes with their ability to live their lives.

But when you try to restrict peoples activities based on their beliefs, there is intolerance.

But that's not the argument he made at all nor should he have made it because that wasn't the reason for his comments.  He didn't want the distraction to his football team if he was hypothetically coaching it.  He clearly said he believes Sam should have the opportunity, but that Dungy wouldn't have been the guy to give it to him because in his opinion the distraction to the other 60 guys in training camp and beyond were not worth it.

Where do you get the idea his beliefs had anything to do with his comments about Sam, because certainly nothing he said insinuated that at all. 

brandx

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #256 on: July 25, 2014, 11:50:51 PM »
But that's not the argument he made at all nor should he have made it because that wasn't the reason for his comments.  He didn't want the distraction to his football team if he was hypothetically coaching it.  He clearly said he believes Sam should have the opportunity, but that Dungy wouldn't have been the guy to give it to him because in his opinion the distraction to the other 60 guys in training camp and beyond were not worth it.

Where do you get the idea his beliefs had anything to do with his comments about Sam, because certainly nothing he said insinuated that at all. 

Maybe because he has openly fought against the rights of gays to marry. There is no doubt his feelings toward gays and the right they deserve.

MUsoxfan

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #257 on: July 26, 2014, 12:52:33 AM »
Dead from the neck-up

jesmu84

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #258 on: July 26, 2014, 01:31:38 PM »
It is amazing as a supposedly educated man how you keep missing the point, and now you take it to an extreme you know isn't the case.

ALL OF THEM ARE INTOLERANT, that's entirely the point.  You, me, everyone else.  And you can bet your bottom dollar the a-holes claiming to be the morally superior super tolerant are, in fact, the most INTOLERANT of the bunch.  Simply because by THEIR very definition of tolerance which includes religious views, etc, they ignore them completely and minimalize them.

Do I support stoning of a woman that was raped?  Of course not.  Do I think homosexuals are abhorrent to society?  Of course not.  Do I acknowledge that there are religious views that say marriage is between a man and a woman?  Yes.  Does that make them right?  Who knows, but I acknowledge those views exist and do not dismiss them out of hand.  Maybe someday we will all be judged or not judged, depending on what is real or not.  No one knows.  What I do know is that I acknowledge that people do have legitimate views grounded in religious viewpoints, while the super tolerant among us dismiss those views out of hand, DESPITE the very notion of tolerant behavior espouses to be.

Really.  Not.  Hard. 

Yup. Hypocrisy is everywhere in everyone in the entire world. We could have just said that, all agreed, and saved 8 pages in this thread. But instead a bunch of people got caught up in semantics, hypotheticals and specifics.

rocket surgeon

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #259 on: July 27, 2014, 06:11:31 AM »
Yup. Hypocrisy is everywhere in everyone in the entire world. We could have just said that, all agreed, and saved 8 pages in this thread. But instead a bunch of people got caught up in semantics, hypotheticals and specifics.

but that's the beauty of having open and honest discussions.  to debate or throw opinions back and forth.  i am sure, through all this however,  some thinking was created, clarity was made, some opinions were changed, chico still gets beat up for a head-fake and a hypothetical, and the so called most "tolerant" are really still the most "intolerant".  just ask them ;D
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #260 on: July 27, 2014, 12:17:04 PM »
Yup. Hypocrisy is everywhere in everyone in the entire world. We could have just said that, all agreed, and saved 8 pages in this thread. But instead a bunch of people got caught up in semantics, hypotheticals and specifics.

We've said that many times, yet all too often the most hypocritical deny it.  Exhibit A is those that claim to be tolerant and cast aspersions on others saying others aren't.  Think about it next time you see who is calling someone an Uncle Tom, a Redneck, a fundamentalist, etc....look who is stating those words.  The irony is often incredible.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #261 on: July 27, 2014, 12:37:46 PM »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #262 on: July 27, 2014, 12:41:50 PM »
Agreed....doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite.

To be a hypocrite you have to act in a way that is different under the same circumstances.  Are the circumstances the same with Vick and Sam?  I don't think so.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #263 on: July 27, 2014, 12:44:47 PM »
That's some gotcha BS.

White males are the most intolerant people.

I can point out A TON of historic and current examples. (Hooray for the internet!)

It doesn't make my hypothesis true.

White males aren't claiming to be tolerant, that's the entire point.  It is those that claim to be tolerant that are the ones worth exposing.  We're all intolerant to a degree, all bigoted to a degree, it is the a-holes that claim they are not that are worth pointing out....which is exactly what I did.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #264 on: July 27, 2014, 12:51:29 PM »
You're a hospital. Not a "Christian" hospital. You want all the legal tax breaks and profits from publicly-traded insurance companies and grants from the State and payments from public and private sector workers, then you act like a hospital that doesn't discriminate. Deal. Additionally, all these hospitals were providing birth control to employees way before this scary Obamacare started. It's amazing how many of them suddenly "object" to it now.

Please try to argue that Christianity (the religion) is not sexist. Go ahead. Try it. I dare you.

The problems with these "beliefs" is that they're factually incorrect. I don't need your opinions on facts.

Calling something sexist or racist does not make me "intolerant." You're literally arguing we should never point out when someone is a bigot because....the word sounds mean?

So if you're a school, you can't be a Christian school...do I have that correct also?

I think you are ignoring what is trying to happen and what Christian hospitals are attempting to do, which is be a hospital but a CHRISTIAN hospital.  There is, despite your comments, a difference.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/catholic-bishops-sued-by-aclu-for-not-allowing-abortion-in-catholic-hospital-110407/


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #265 on: July 27, 2014, 12:53:21 PM »
It was a response to Chicos, on a specific comment. Of course all the Abrahamic religions are exceedingly sexist.

Are the girl scouts of America sexist?  How about NOW?  Are they relying on 1000's of years of tradition, religious dogma (which you may or may not agree with)?

forgetful

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #266 on: July 27, 2014, 01:19:36 PM »
So if you're a school, you can't be a Christian school...do I have that correct also?

I think you are ignoring what is trying to happen and what Christian hospitals are attempting to do, which is be a hospital but a CHRISTIAN hospital.  There is, despite your comments, a difference.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/catholic-bishops-sued-by-aclu-for-not-allowing-abortion-in-catholic-hospital-110407/



You can be a Christian school, but to be accredited you have to meet specific requirements.  If you do not follow those requirements you fail to be recognized for your educational output.

Similarly, to be a functional hospital, the government can require that you perform to standards of 'accreditation.'

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #267 on: July 27, 2014, 01:40:08 PM »
You can be a Christian school, but to be accredited you have to meet specific requirements.  If you do not follow those requirements you fail to be recognized for your educational output.

Similarly, to be a functional hospital, the government can require that you perform to standards of 'accreditation.'

That's when the Supreme Court comes into play and may say the gov't's requirements step on their religious rights.

Depending on how lawsuits shake out, how much of a push to step on religious rights continues from the left in this country, etc, could have a very real impact.

“Catholic hospitals, universities and social services have an institutional conscience, a conscience shaped by Catholic moral and social teaching,” said Cardinal George. “The HHS regulations now before our society will make it impossible for Catholic institutions to follow their conscience.”

He continued: “What will happen if the HHS regulations are not rescinded? A Catholic institution, so far as I can see right now, will have one of four choices: 1) secularize itself, breaking its connection to the church, her moral and social teachings and the oversight of its ministry by the local bishop. This is a form of theft. It means the church will not be permitted to have an institutional voice in public life. 2) Pay exorbitant annual fines to avoid paying for insurance policies that cover abortifacient drugs, artificial contraception and sterilization. This is not economically sustainable. 3) Sell the institution to a non-Catholic group or to a local government. 4) Close down.”

Galway Eagle

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #268 on: July 27, 2014, 01:58:32 PM »
That's when the Supreme Court comes into play and may say the gov't's requirements step on their religious rights.

Depending on how lawsuits shake out, how much of a push to step on religious rights continues from the left in this country, etc, could have a very real impact.

“Catholic hospitals, universities and social services have an institutional conscience, a conscience shaped by Catholic moral and social teaching,” said Cardinal George. “The HHS regulations now before our society will make it impossible for Catholic institutions to follow their conscience.”

He continued: “What will happen if the HHS regulations are not rescinded? A Catholic institution, so far as I can see right now, will have one of four choices: 1) secularize itself, breaking its connection to the church, her moral and social teachings and the oversight of its ministry by the local bishop. This is a form of theft. It means the church will not be permitted to have an institutional voice in public life. 2) Pay exorbitant annual fines to avoid paying for insurance policies that cover abortifacient drugs, artificial contraception and sterilization. This is not economically sustainable. 3) Sell the institution to a non-Catholic group or to a local government. 4) Close down.”


If those hospitals want to be free from the government regulations then they should not be accepting government funds.  But they do and as such the government should have a say in what is provided. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

mu-rara

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #269 on: July 27, 2014, 02:00:48 PM »
If those hospitals want to be free from the government regulations then they should not be accepting government funds.  But they do and as such the government should have a say in what is provided. 
What gov't funds are you referring to?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #270 on: July 27, 2014, 03:08:50 PM »
If those hospitals want to be free from the government regulations then they should not be accepting government funds.  But they do and as such the government should have a say in what is provided. 

Again, this is where the Supreme Court gets to decide how over reaching the gov't is or isn't.

Most of the situations I'm aware of, Catholic hospitals REJECT gov't funding so they can remain religious freedom.  Not always the case. 

Catholic charities over hundreds of years in this country have been instrumental in providing health care, education, food, clothing, shelter.  What a shame it would be to force a PRIVATE and RELIGIOUS institution to violate their ethos by forcing them to provide services that directly contradict some of the most profound doctrine of the church, including when life begins. 

brandx

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #271 on: July 27, 2014, 03:22:11 PM »
Again, this is where the Supreme Court gets to decide how over reaching the gov't is or isn't.

Most of the situations I'm aware of, Catholic hospitals REJECT gov't funding so they can remain religious freedom.  Not always the case. 

Catholic charities over hundreds of years in this country have been instrumental in providing health care, education, food, clothing, shelter.  What a shame it would be to force a PRIVATE and RELIGIOUS institution to violate their ethos by forcing them to provide services that directly contradict some of the most profound doctrine of the church, including when life begins. 

All Catholic hospitals receive money from the Fed gov't.

mu-rara

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #272 on: July 27, 2014, 04:21:20 PM »
All Catholic hospitals receive money from the Fed gov't.
What kind of funding?  Medicare, Medicaid?


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #273 on: July 27, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
What kind of funding?  Medicare, Medicaid?



Many accept grants and aid, some do not.  Several dioceses no longer accept any state or federal monies of any kind, while certainly others still take funding to help the hospital, school, etc.

It's one of the reasons Notre Dame sued the current administration as has Catholic charities. 

Basically the gov't is saying if you accept money of any kind, you must provide all these services or lose the money....your religious views don't mean a damn...money trumps all.  I get why the gov't attaches the strings, but I also feel the gov't has no trouble squashing religious rights over other rights....religious rights become secondary. 

jesmu84

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #274 on: July 27, 2014, 04:53:47 PM »
Many accept grants and aid, some do not.  Several dioceses no longer accept any state or federal monies of any kind, while certainly others still take funding to help the hospital, school, etc.

It's one of the reasons Notre Dame sued the current administration as has Catholic charities. 

Basically the gov't is saying if you accept money of any kind, you must provide all these services or lose the money....your religious views don't mean a damn...money trumps all.  I get why the gov't attaches the strings, but I also feel the gov't has no trouble squashing religious rights over other rights....religious rights become secondary. 

If I don't have the ability to pick and choose where my tax money goes, why should they have the ability to pick and choose where they get to spend it?

 

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