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Author Topic: espn-double standard much??  (Read 65163 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #125 on: July 24, 2014, 10:57:45 AM »
Did you even read this?? Some of the "hateful" tweets you cite:

— "legitimately disappointed in Tony Dungy"

— "congratulations @TonyDungy for being on what will turn out to be the WRONG side of history. too bad."

— "I had respect for Dungy. No longer. RT @Russ_Steinberg: Tony Dungy is a distraction"

— "Disappointed in @TonyDungy. His book Quiet Strength was so inspirational for me and is my favorite book. Shocked by his stance on Sam. #NFL"

— "So Tony Dungy wouldn't have taken Michael Sam b/c "things would happen"? Or b/c Dungy is very religious & Sam is gay?? #justsayit"

— "Tony Dungy LOVES being a mentor to young players. Unless you're gay. That's too much of a headache"


The rest are just adding the F word in mostly. It's Twitter, what'd you expect? Also, I don't have to be tolerant of bigoted people that try to legitimize discrimination. Sorry.


Oh, I read it just fine....sorry, but seems to me you didn't scroll down far enough on the link. Try again and get back to me.

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #126 on: July 24, 2014, 10:58:04 AM »
Some people are atheists and all of it is BS.  Some are Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc, believe in something else.  But, ya know, whatever works for YOU.

That's the point.  He has HIS views, for which the tolerance lobby says he essentially isn't allowed to have or will label him in their views as intolerant.  His religious views on the subject don't count (ironically).  It's always amazing to me that in this country the tolerance lobby doesn't seem to include religous views in their attributes of what can and cannot be considered in their equation.

Whatever works for you.  By the way, if the last 4 days doesn't show what a total distraction all of this can become, I don't know what else can.  Dungy was certainly right on that and in his football opinion, a 7th rounder isn't worth the distraction to getting his team ready and he wouldn't draft him.  I appreciate the man's honesty.

I don't disagree on the media distraction, but when you stood up and said you'd take people like Vick but not Sam...your hypocrisy clearly shows and your opinion becomes void.

And no, I mean the idea that the Bible actually advocates for the discrimination of gay people in society is a lie and also proves a complete disregard for reading skills, translation nuances, and historical context.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #127 on: July 24, 2014, 11:00:28 AM »
Oh, I read it just fine....sorry, but seems to me you didn't scroll down far enough on the link. Try again and get back to me.

Oooooh, so a few guys said he should go F himself. This is game-changing. Look, I read it. It's cute and all that you think this is important or proves something you believe in. But it's Twitter. Type in the name of any minor celebrity and you can see just as much angry behavior. This proves absolutely nothing.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #128 on: July 24, 2014, 11:08:51 AM »
I don't disagree on the media distraction, but when you stood up and said you'd take people like Vick but not Sam...your hypocrisy clearly shows and your opinion becomes void.

And no, I mean the idea that the Bible actually advocates for the discrimination of gay people in society is a lie and also proves a complete disregard for reading skills, translation nuances, and historical context.

He made his comments in context of the Oprah Winfrey Network reality show, which is a far bigger distraction than the Vick stuff.  Context is key.    Also, fair or not, Sam is a 7th rounder and not that great, Michael Vick was a great player.  That's life in the city, the ultra talented get away with more than those that aren't.  

Reminds me of a situation on campus a few years ago about some basketball players and some coeds....guys that weren't very good no longer on the team, guys that were considered much better.....

On the bible, well one can find Bible components to support or deny just about any argument in my opinion.  I was talking about what marriage has been throughout this world throughout history, despite religions, societies, etc.  Many people believe in that definition, but despite having those beliefs they are not allowed to have them without being labeled intolerant even if they are grounded in religious beliefs (they believe that to be the case, you may not).  For some reason religious views are immediately dismissed and don't fall under the auspices of tolerance.  Ironically.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 11:11:36 AM by ChicosBailBonds »

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #129 on: July 24, 2014, 11:12:22 AM »
Actually, it is the ultimate exposure of hypocrisy because many of the so called "tolerant" feel they can unleash their "tolerance" without repercussions which they don't always do.  It's terrific in that sense.  The anonymity allows them to be the ULTIMATE hypocrites.  Nothing exposes the tolerant more than their own intolerant remarks.  It happens like clockwork every time and the irony is delicious. 


You're like a moth to a lightbulb. You can't help yourself.

A LOT of people on Twitter are stupid. They don't have reasonable points of view, and they just rant about crap.

It's both ends of the political spectrum, and it should be thrown out, not used as evidence of anything other than a lot of vocal people are stupid.

You run to this stuff as "proof"!, but it's just junk. Don't read it. Don't waste your time. It's gotcha BS.

It's nothing. Junk. BS. Garbage. Forget about it. Nonsense. Leave it. Outliers.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #130 on: July 24, 2014, 11:16:53 AM »
Oooooh, so a few guys said he should go F himself. This is game-changing. Look, I read it. It's cute and all that you think this is important or proves something you believe in. But it's Twitter. Type in the name of any minor celebrity and you can see just as much angry behavior. This proves absolutely nothing.

It was just one example.  There are examples in organizations, politicians, advocates, media members, etc....I can provide endless examples all day long if needed.  That was just low hanging fruit, nothing more.

In my view (shared by many others), often the most intolerant people out there are those that preach how tolerant they are.  They preach how open they are to other views and viewpoints, and then they are shocked to find out that other people have other views and viewpoints.   ;)

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #131 on: July 24, 2014, 11:20:20 AM »
It was just one example.  There are examples in organizations, politicians, advocates, media members, etc....I can provide endless examples all day long if needed.  That was just low hanging fruit, nothing more.

In my view (shared by many others), often the most intolerant people out there are those that preach how tolerant they are.  They preach how open they are to other views and viewpoints, and then they are shocked to find out that other people have other views and viewpoints.   ;)

That's some gotcha BS.

White males are the most intolerant people.

I can point out A TON of historic and current examples. (Hooray for the internet!)

It doesn't make my hypothesis true.

Galway Eagle

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #132 on: July 24, 2014, 11:27:49 AM »
Some people are atheists and all of it is BS.  Some are Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc, believe in something else.  But, ya know, whatever works for YOU.

That's the point.  He has HIS views, for which the tolerance lobby says he essentially isn't allowed to have or will label him in their views as intolerant.  His religious views on the subject don't count (ironically).  It's always amazing to me that in this country the tolerance lobby doesn't seem to include religous views in their attributes of what can and cannot be considered in their equation.

Whatever works for you.  By the way, if the last 4 days doesn't show what a total distraction all of this can become, I don't know what else can.  Dungy was certainly right on that and in his football opinion, a 7th rounder isn't worth the distraction to getting his team ready and he wouldn't draft him.  I appreciate the man's honesty.

I agree to everybody should be allowed to have their own views as long as those views are properly informed.  I had severe tourette syndrome growing up and some of my teachers used to kick me out of class because they were convinced I was faking it, after my doctor lectured them one still was convinced I was faking it.  That was her view ok she deserves it, the original uninformed view though is what people should be allowed to get up in arms about.  Same with say Dungy and his views regarding being gay.  

As far as tolerence including religion, it is.  See this link? https://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/eleven-year-old-muslim-girl-harassed-after-declining-bible-school-principal-aclu-la-  

See intolerance covers religion as well, just not the religion you were hoping to get covered.  As far as religios views being covered or not, well congress will not make any laws with respect to a religion (establishment clause) thus you are free to practice your religion but using it as grounds for law to enforce discrimination (the situation for going against gay marriage) wouldn't be constitutional.  Finally, using religious views as an example for going against gay marriage would be tremendously more effective if those same people followed everything the bible says about marriage.  

Genesis states that essentially God's plan was marriage between cain and his sister.  

In Genesis Abraham is stated as the half brother of Sarah but I can't imagine that most of the bible guys (maybe in the south, pause for laughter) are going to be marrying their sister.  Not to mention adultery is considered a sin yet Sarah invited the maid to get in bed with Abraham, and then become his wife so the bible says multiple wives is traditional as well.  David had something like 8 wives, solomon 700, not to mention the huge quantity of concubines that the bible mentions. In the bible it also says that a woman must marry her rapist if he pays 50 pieces of silver but well I don't see anybody defending that part of the bible.  Jesus states that divorce is against the bible (though you can have as many wives as you want) But a ton of anti gay marriage christians have had divorces.  

Essentially this point is that using the bible is not an excuse for protecting "traditional" marriage when the bible's concept is all sorts of f'd up.  

Maigh Eo for Sam

reinko

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #133 on: July 24, 2014, 11:29:18 AM »
Some people are atheists and all of it is BS.  Some are Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc, believe in something else.  But, ya know, whatever works for YOU.

That's the point.  He has HIS views, for which the tolerance lobby says he essentially isn't allowed to have or will label him in their views as intolerant.  His religious views on the subject don't count (ironically).  It's always amazing to me that in this country the tolerance lobby doesn't seem to include religous views in their attributes of what can and cannot be considered in their equation.

Whatever works for you.  By the way, if the last 4 days doesn't show what a total distraction all of this can become, I don't know what else can.  Dungy was certainly right on that and in his football opinion, a 7th rounder isn't worth the distraction to getting his team ready and he wouldn't draft him.  I appreciate the man's honesty.

This is just great.  The guy who complains about the media distraction, is the one who created it.  Classic.  NOt too mention, the head coach of his team, said it was not a distraction.  So who is right, you, or Jeff Fisher?

Galway Eagle

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #134 on: July 24, 2014, 11:35:04 AM »

On the bible, well one can find Bible components to support or deny just about any argument in my opinion.  I was talking about what marriage has been throughout this world throughout history, despite religions, societies, etc.  Many people believe in that definition, but despite having those beliefs they are not allowed to have them without being labeled intolerant even if they are grounded in religious beliefs (they believe that to be the case, you may not).  For some reason religious views are immediately dismissed and don't fall under the auspices of tolerance.  Ironically.

So I just invented my own religion.  It says that all those from california are less than me.  They need to be put into slavery and sold.  Am I being intolerant of Californians? Or am I just being religious.  Just because a religion says something doesn't make it not intolerance.  It just means that a person has an excuse to be intolerant. 

I hate to say it but I actually do agree with your basic argument of intolerance toward the intolerant make the tolerant hypocrites.  However, that doesn't mean attempts at educating them and explaining to them what is tolerance can't happen.  It just means that cursing them out and the like is the wrong path. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #135 on: July 24, 2014, 11:50:13 AM »
He made his comments in context of the Oprah Winfrey Network reality show, which is a far bigger distraction than the Vick stuff.  Context is key.    Also, fair or not, Sam is a 7th rounder and not that great, Michael Vick was a great player.  That's life in the city, the ultra talented get away with more than those that aren't.  

Reminds me of a situation on campus a few years ago about some basketball players and some coeds....guys that weren't very good no longer on the team, guys that were considered much better.....

On the bible, well one can find Bible components to support or deny just about any argument in my opinion.  I was talking about what marriage has been throughout this world throughout history, despite religions, societies, etc.  Many people believe in that definition, but despite having those beliefs they are not allowed to have them without being labeled intolerant even if they are grounded in religious beliefs (they believe that to be the case, you may not).  For some reason religious views are immediately dismissed and don't fall under the auspices of tolerance.  Ironically.

Actually, "traditional" marriage for thousands of years meant polygamy. Religions don't own the concept of marriage.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

MU82

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #136 on: July 24, 2014, 11:50:47 AM »
I agree that he's a better human being than Donald Sterling, but in his world Michael Sam is no different from Ray Rice or Michael Vick. All three are guilty of abominations against God. If Rice and Vick repent their sins, God forgives them and Tony has no problem with the "distractions" that surround them. If Michael Sam were to "repent" I'm certain he'd feel the same way - but without repenting, the "distraction" will remain too much to deal with.

Oh boy. Yeah, let's get effin sanctimonious.

The bible says homosexuality is an abomination against God and says violators should be stoned to death. Yep. Can't argue with that.

The bible also says kids who argue with their parents and women who are not virgins on their wedding nights should be stoned to death, too.

I'm guessing Jesus would not advocate any of those punishments, but you go right ahead and use your book of fairy tales to make any case you want.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #137 on: July 24, 2014, 11:54:14 AM »
I agree that he's a better human being than Donald Sterling, but in his world Michael Sam is no different from Ray Rice or Michael Vick. All three are guilty of abominations against God. If Rice and Vick repent their sins, God forgives them and Tony has no problem with the "distractions" that surround them. If Michael Sam were to "repent" I'm certain he'd feel the same way - but without repenting, the "distraction" will remain too much to deal with.

Hey everyone, look! A moron.

EDIT:  Sorry, I see your post below. I read your comment as "but in This world".... My Bad.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 11:59:01 AM by Aughnanure »
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

Lennys Tap

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #138 on: July 24, 2014, 11:57:07 AM »
Oh boy. Yeah, let's get effin sanctimonious.

The bible says homosexuality is an abomination against God and says violators should be stoned to death. Yep. Can't argue with that.

The bible also says kids who argue with their parents and women who are not virgins on their wedding nights should be stoned to death, too.

I'm guessing Jesus would not advocate any of those punishments, but you go right ahead and use your book of fairy tales to make any case you want.

Easy, 82. That's not MY take on the subject. It's Tony Dungy's. I think his view is whacky, but if that's what he believes he should at least own it rather than playing the "distraction" card. THEN we can have an honest discussion at least.

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #139 on: July 24, 2014, 11:57:11 AM »
Oh boy. Yeah, let's get effin sanctimonious.

The bible says homosexuality is an abomination against God and says violators should be stoned to death. Yep. Can't argue with that.

The bible also says kids who argue with their parents and women who are not virgins on their wedding nights should be stoned to death, too.

I'm guessing Jesus would not advocate any of those punishments, but you go right ahead and use your book of fairy tales to make any case you want.

Also says eating shellfish is an abomination. Too bad literalists don't understand historical context and that the term "abomination" isn't even a correct english translation and meant more something more along the lines of "you can't be part of this religion if you do this thing" not all that different than not eating meat on Fridays....well, unless you forget!
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

GGGG

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #140 on: July 24, 2014, 11:57:54 AM »
Oh boy. Yeah, let's get effin sanctimonious.

The bible says homosexuality is an abomination against God and says violators should be stoned to death. Yep. Can't argue with that.

The bible also says kids who argue with their parents and women who are not virgins on their wedding nights should be stoned to death, too.

I'm guessing Jesus would not advocate any of those punishments, but you go right ahead and use your book of fairy tales to make any case you want.


Hey everyone, look! A moron.


You guys realize that Lennys was talking about Dungy's POV and not his own right?

Galway Eagle

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #141 on: July 24, 2014, 11:58:49 AM »
Actually, "traditional" marriage for thousands of years meant polygamy. Religions don't own the concept of marriage.

Not to mention the much more ancient societies that practiced polyandry now if you were to make that case to a literalist their head would explode at the concept.  
Maigh Eo for Sam

mu-rara

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #142 on: July 24, 2014, 12:17:04 PM »
This is just great.  The guy who complains about the media distraction, is the one who created it.  Classic.  NOt too mention, the head coach of his team, said it was not a distraction.  So who is right, you, or Jeff Fisher?

Do you really think Jeff Fisher would come out and say Sam is a distraction?   Jeff Fisher was told how to handle this by the NFL media relations folks.  This is text book PR 101 being handled exactly as it should by the Rams and the NFL.   Fisher talking about what a distraction Sam is would be feeding red meat to a lion (the media).

Again.  I am glad Sam was drafted and will get his shot.  I hope he has a good long NFL career.

mu03eng

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #143 on: July 24, 2014, 12:45:49 PM »
Also, I don't have to be tolerant of bigoted people that try to legitimize discrimination. Sorry.


I'm in no way arguing for Chicos here, but IMHO you should be tolerant of that.  You don't have to like it, agree with it, or even listen to it without vomiting but you should be tolerant of someones beliefs and opinions.  Otherwise its censorship, justified or not.

Whether it's justified or not, once we decide this is an ok opinion to have and this is not you are restricting the flow of thought and ideas....not a good idea.
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mu03eng

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #144 on: July 24, 2014, 12:51:07 PM »
Also says eating shellfish is an abomination. Too bad literalists don't understand historical context and that the term "abomination" isn't even a correct english translation and meant more something more along the lines of "you can't be part of this religion if you do this thing" not all that different than not eating meat on Fridays....well, unless you forget!

I had a Theo prof at MU, Dr Zemler.  That guy was awesome, former artillery officer and became a theologian.  I had him for a couple of classes and one of the biggest concept he talked about that really stuck with me, was the thought of the Bible as an evolutionary book.  Societies and people evolve into higher and higher order things(in theory  ;D) and if you look at the bible in the historical context it is the story of evolving society into a more and more stable platform.  Eye for an eye was evolution because it put an end to blood feuds that would wipe out entire families.  That eventually evolved into turn the other cheek.  Lots and lots of instances like this.

My whole point, society evolves, we can look to the past for context and guidance but it shouldn't be the standard we stay with.
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reinko

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #145 on: July 24, 2014, 01:00:39 PM »
Do you really think Jeff Fisher would come out and say Sam is a distraction?   Jeff Fisher was told how to handle this by the NFL media relations folks.  This is text book PR 101 being handled exactly as it should by the Rams and the NFL.   Fisher talking about what a distraction Sam is would be feeding red meat to a lion (the media).

Again.  I am glad Sam was drafted and will get his shot.  I hope he has a good long NFL career.

So Jeff Fisher is lying.  Got it.

mu-rara

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #146 on: July 24, 2014, 01:10:59 PM »
I had a Theo prof at MU, Dr Zemler.  That guy was awesome, former artillery officer and became a theologian.  I had him for a couple of classes and one of the biggest concept he talked about that really stuck with me, was the thought of the Bible as an evolutionary book.  Societies and people evolve into higher and higher order things(in theory  ;D) and if you look at the bible in the historical context it is the story of evolving society into a more and more stable platform.  Eye for an eye was evolution because it put an end to blood feuds that would wipe out entire families.  That eventually evolved into turn the other cheek.  Lots and lots of instances like this.

My whole point, society evolves, we can look to the past for context and guidance but it shouldn't be the standard we stay with.
The Bible evolving has a lot to do with translation.  Greek and Aramaic to Latin etc., etc.  There are English and Latin words and phrases that have no equivalent in Greek, so the translators have had to guess what was meant. 

brandx

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #147 on: July 24, 2014, 01:12:17 PM »
So Jeff Fisher is lying.  Got it.

I am a Packer fan, ergo I hate the Bears, ergo I hate Jeff Fisher.

But.... through this mess, Jeff has shown how a real man should react. The comparison between Fisher and an intolerant liar like "don't distract me" Dungy is stunning.

Aughnanure

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #148 on: July 24, 2014, 01:21:53 PM »
I'm in no way arguing for Chicos here, but IMHO you should be tolerant of that.  You don't have to like it, agree with it, or even listen to it without vomiting but you should be tolerant of someones beliefs and opinions.  Otherwise its censorship, justified or not.

Whether it's justified or not, once we decide this is an ok opinion to have and this is not you are restricting the flow of thought and ideas....not a good idea.

Me calling out bigoted opinions for being bigoted isn't "censorship." No one is arresting anyone for thinking terrible things. Making yourself immune to criticism and insults isn't how freedom of speech works. Tolerance allows enables bad behavior, but the lack of it doesn't obstruct it.
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

MU82

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Re: espn-double standard much??
« Reply #149 on: July 24, 2014, 01:22:43 PM »
Easy, 82. That's not MY take on the subject. It's Tony Dungy's. I think his view is whacky, but if that's what he believes he should at least own it rather than playing the "distraction" card. THEN we can have an honest discussion at least.

OK, I'm a dummy. Sometimes, sarcasm gets lost in the translation.

I hereby do not condemn you to getting stoned to death on the village square.

I mean, if one is gonna get stoned, it should be a joyous occasion, with much passing of the bowl and then Doritos afterward!
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