espn-double standard much??

[GGGG]

kluwe, iverson and owens-ok, kind of.  it's their personalities-i guess you could say they were born that way?

sam should not be distracting- he is gay.  who really cares.  it's the media.  look what they did with tim tebow. tim tebow obviously wasn't very good. the media a real hard one for him.  yes, i do know why.  anyway, how many thousands of players don't make it in pro sports that you never hear a word about?  but an 8th round draft pick-leave him alone.  play ball 

Well I don't disagree with that.  I just don't think the media will be that much of a distraction.

[mu-rara]

Well I don't disagree with that.  I just don't think the media will be that much of a distraction.

C'mon Sultan.  I respect that you disagree with Dungy's opinion on this issue.  You are one of the most thoughtful, even keeled posters on this site.  I don't believe you're naïve enough to think that the media will not be a distraction with this story. 

OWN wanted to follow a 7th round pick around camp.  A 7th round pick.  There are teams that don't want Hard Knocks in camp, and that is considered positive coverage.  OWN following a 7th round pick looking for gotchas would be crazy.

I am glad Sam was drafted.  I am glad he is afforded a chance to play in the NFL.  I hope he makes it.   I think that 50% of the population, and climbing,  agrees with me. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And because he makes a spectacle of it.

He's not Charles Nelson Reilly.

[Lennys Tap]

He's not Charles Nelson Reilly.

This made me laugh.

[GGGG]

C'mon Sultan.  I respect that you disagree with Dungy's opinion on this issue.  You are one of the most thoughtful, even keeled posters on this site.  I don't believe you're naïve enough to think that the media will not be a distraction with this story. 

OWN wanted to follow a 7th round pick around camp.  A 7th round pick.  There are teams that don't want Hard Knocks in camp, and that is considered positive coverage.  OWN following a 7th round pick looking for gotchas would be crazy.

Jeff Fisher:  ""Let's define distraction. There were a couple extra cameras during the early OTAs, there may have been an extra camera yesterday as the rookies reported and went on the field for the first time, but no, it's not (a distraction)"

Sam dropped the OWN idea.  Very smart on his behalf.  If he doesn't seek it out, and I don't think simply coming out and kissing your partner on television is seeking it out, I simply don't see it as much of anything.

This will be nothing like the Tebow stuff.  The problem with Tebow is that there was an extreme disconnect between how good his supporters thought he could play, and how he could actually play.  Being a quarterback was part of that issue.  If Sam gets cut, or if he makes the team and still doesn't play much, I don't think that you will have legions of media wondering why.

[mu03eng]

C'mon Sultan.  I respect that you disagree with Dungy's opinion on this issue.  You are one of the most thoughtful, even keeled posters on this site.  I don't believe you're naïve enough to think that the media will not be a distraction with this story. 

OWN wanted to follow a 7th round pick around camp.  A 7th round pick.  There are teams that don't want Hard Knocks in camp, and that is considered positive coverage.  OWN following a 7th round pick looking for gotchas would be crazy.

I am glad Sam was drafted.  I am glad he is afforded a chance to play in the NFL.  I hope he makes it.   I think that 50% of the population, and climbing,  agrees with me. 

Let's be honest, the media distraction thing is mostly cooked up for fans, by fans as a talking point.  I don't think there is a way to prove it empirically, but the number of outcomes impacted by "media distractions" has to be small, especially distractions that are entirely invented by the media.

Take the PSU scandal, that was a media distraction and outcomes were impacted but there was actual issues going on that the media was covering.  If the media didn't cover that scandal and it wasn't a circus it absolutely still would have been a distraction.  Michael Sam being gay is in of itself not a distraction(unless teammates have an issue with it), so the only component is a media element that the team can easily ignore.

It's us fans that get worked up about media distractions which just feeds the media animal further, it's a thermal runaway.

[MU82]

I was referring to the work that Dungy has done fighting against gay marriage.

It's interesting, though, that he never speaks out about actual criminals in the NFL - all of those arrested for assault or beating women over the last few years. I guess only the gays really bother this man.

This is a very good point.

How many times could Dungy have used his respected status to take stances on NFL-related issues that truly result in pain and suffering? Violence. Guns. PEDs. Whatever.

He has not had a problem advocating for second chances for the likes of Vick and other miscreants (a stance I agree with, BTW). He apparently didn't think they would be "distractions" for their teams.

But this issue is the one he decides to sink his teeth into.

My first post in this thread spoke about how different Dungy was from Sterling. And I still think he is. But I also have come to realize that Dungy has sounded like quite the hypocrite and weasel here.

He is a better human being than Donald Effin Sterling. It's reasonable to expect more from him.

[GGGG]

Seriously, we have a league where Ray Rice gets a two game suspension for beating up his wife, complete with a recording of the incident.

And we are having a debate over whether or not Michael Sam will be a distraction?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's be honest, the media distraction thing is mostly cooked up for fans, by fans as a talking point.  I don't think there is a way to prove it empirically, but the number of outcomes impacted by "media distractions" has to be small, especially distractions that are entirely invented by the media.

Take the PSU scandal, that was a media distraction and outcomes were impacted but there was actual issues going on that the media was covering.  If the media didn't cover that scandal and it wasn't a circus it absolutely still would have been a distraction.  Michael Sam being gay is in of itself not a distraction(unless teammates have an issue with it), so the only component is a media element that the team can easily ignore.

It's us fans that get worked up about media distractions which just feeds the media animal further, it's a thermal runaway.

Could not disagree more.  As stated a few times, I handle the HBO relationship among others for my company.  They have a hell of a time just getting a team to participate in Hard Knocks each year because of the distractions, and that instance would be very small compared to this.  When you have a team trying to get ready for a season, making cuts, evaluating rosters, all the outside craziness, distractions need to be minimized.  Having a reality show following around one of your players is a major distraction because of the circumstances around it.  That's just one example, but overlaps nicely because it is football related.

Personally, I think the Rams are in a hell of a bind.  Hopefully this kid plays lights out.  He's a 7th rounder and many 7th rounders get cut.  If the Rams cut him, you can bet your a$$ that there will be plenty of media stories questioning if one of the reasons was the locker room environment or playing on that angle.  Some will drive it as the sole reason, others will do it as a "we'll never know, but did Sam's sexuality contribute to his dismissal".  Then, of course, if he isn't picked up by another team that keeps the ball rolling.

For the Rams sake, I hope the kid knocks it out of the ballpark and makes it so obvious he should remain on the team that it becomes a no brainer.

One final note....glad to see some of the lefty sites the last two days pile on Dungy's son and his suicide.  Awesome.  Tolerance on display.

[GGGG]

One final note....glad to see some of the lefty sites the last two days pile on Dungy's son and his suicide.  Awesome.  Tolerance on display.

So close....you were *so* close to making a nice, reasonable post.  (Parts of which I disagree with, but reasonable nevertheless.)

And then you had to go on one of your tangents....  <sigh>

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is a very good point.

How many times could Dungy have used his respected status to take stances on NFL-related issues that truly result in pain and suffering? Violence. Guns. PEDs. Whatever.

He has, just because advocating for those things doesn't put you in the press 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't happening by him, because they are.  He has advocated for such things for many years.

Did BrandX really say Dungy is fighting against gay marriage?  LOL.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  I suspect Dungy and others would say he was fighting FOR traditional marriage, one bound by Judeo Christian dogma, ethos, values, etc.   

[Aughnanure]

Could not disagree more.  As stated a few times, I handle the HBO relationship among others for my company.  They have a hell of a time just getting a team to participate in Hard Knocks each year because of the distractions, and that instance would be very small compared to this.  When you have a team trying to get ready for a season, making cuts, evaluating rosters, all the outside craziness, distractions need to be minimized.  Having a reality show following around one of your players is a major distraction because of the circumstances around it.  That's just one example, but overlaps nicely because it is football related.

Personally, I think the Rams are in a hell of a bind.  Hopefully this kid plays lights out.  He's a 7th rounder and many 7th rounders get cut.  If the Rams cut him, you can bet your a$$ that there will be plenty of media stories questioning if one of the reasons was the locker room environment or playing on that angle.  Some will drive it as the sole reason, others will do it as a "we'll never know, but did Sam's sexuality contribute to his dismissal".  Then, of course, if he isn't picked up by another team that keeps the ball rolling.

For the Rams sake, I hope the kid knocks it out of the ballpark and makes it so obvious he should remain on the team that it becomes a no brainer.

One final note....glad to see some of the lefty sites the last two days pile on Dungy's son and his suicide.  Awesome.  Tolerance on display.

Glad you found what you were looking for...

[Aughnanure]

He has, just because advocating for those things doesn't put you in the press 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't happening by him, because they are.  He has advocated for such things for many years.

Did BrandX really say Dungy is fighting against gay marriage?  LOL.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  I suspect Dungy and others would say he was fighting FOR traditional marriage, one bound by Judeo Christian dogma, ethos, values, etc.   

Actually, it's bound by complete made-up bulls***. But, ya know, whatever works for you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nothing I enjoy more than reading how intolerant people are by the so called tolerant and seeing the "tolerant" in action.

It never disappoints, never.  This guy calls them the tolerance brigade, I've dubbed them the tolerance lobby.  Whatever, feel free to choose your descriptor, but some of these people probably are not smart enough to know the irony of their comments.

http://twitchy.com/2014/07/21/hateful-fck-tolerance-mob-lashes-out-at-tony-dungy-over-thoughts-on-michael-sam/

[Lennys Tap]

This is a very good point.

How many times could Dungy have used his respected status to take stances on NFL-related issues that truly result in pain and suffering? Violence. Guns. PEDs. Whatever.

He has not had a problem advocating for second chances for the likes of Vick and other miscreants (a stance I agree with, BTW). He apparently didn't think they would be "distractions" for their teams.

But this issue is the one he decides to sink his teeth into.

My first post in this thread spoke about how different Dungy was from Sterling. And I still think he is. But I also have come to realize that Dungy has sounded like quite the hypocrite and weasel here.

He is a better human being than Donald Effin Sterling. It's reasonable to expect more from him.

I agree that he's a better human being than Donald Sterling, but in his world Michael Sam is no different from Ray Rice or Michael Vick. All three are guilty of abominations against God. If Rice and Vick repent their sins, God forgives them and Tony has no problem with the "distractions" that surround them. If Michael Sam were to "repent" I'm certain he'd feel the same way - but without repenting, the "distraction" will remain too much to deal with.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Personally, I think the Rams are in a hell of a bind.  Hopefully this kid plays lights out.  He's a 7th rounder and many 7th rounders get cut.  If the Rams cut him, you can bet your a$$ that there will be plenty of media stories questioning if one of the reasons was the locker room environment or playing on that angle.  Some will drive it as the sole reason, others will do it as a "we'll never know, but did Sam's sexuality contribute to his dismissal".  Then, of course, if he isn't picked up by another team that keeps the ball rolling.

For the Rams sake, I hope the kid knocks it out of the ballpark and makes it so obvious he should remain on the team that it becomes a no brainer.

You're not necessarily wrong, but nothing risked, nothing rewarded.

Eventually there will be a female majority owner, a female GM and a female head coach too. I'm sure there will be some weird scrutiny over those situations as well.

Don't let a vocal minority cloud your judgement.

People want Michael Sam to get a fair shot. That's it. If a some random media members go off the rails, so be it.

[swoopem]

Could not disagree more.  As stated a few times, I handle the HBO relationship among others for my company.  They have a hell of a time just getting a team to participate in Hard Knocks each year because of the distractions, and that instance would be very small compared to this.  When you have a team trying to get ready for a season, making cuts, evaluating rosters, all the outside craziness, distractions need to be minimized.  Having a reality show following around one of your players is a major distraction because of the circumstances around it.  That's just one example, but overlaps nicely because it is football related.

Personally, I think the Rams are in a hell of a bind.  Hopefully this kid plays lights out.  He's a 7th rounder and many 7th rounders get cut.  If the Rams cut him, you can bet your a$$ that there will be plenty of media stories questioning if one of the reasons was the locker room environment or playing on that angle.  Some will drive it as the sole reason, others will do it as a "we'll never know, but did Sam's sexuality contribute to his dismissal".  Then, of course, if he isn't picked up by another team that keeps the ball rolling.

For the Rams sake, I hope the kid knocks it out of the ballpark and makes it so obvious he should remain on the team that it becomes a no brainer.

One final note....glad to see some of the lefty sites the last two days pile on Dungy's son and his suicide.  Awesome.  Tolerance on display.

I think he'll at least make the practice squad. Which is a success for a 7th round pick.

[Aughnanure]

Nothing I enjoy more than reading how intolerant people are by the so called tolerant and seeing the "tolerant" in action.

It never disappoints, never.  This guy calls them the tolerance brigade, I've dubbed them the tolerance lobby.  Whatever, feel free to choose your descriptor, but some of these people probably are not smart enough to know the irony of their comments.

http://twitchy.com/2014/07/21/hateful-fck-tolerance-mob-lashes-out-at-tony-dungy-over-thoughts-on-michael-sam/

Did you even read this?? Some of the "hateful" tweets you cite:

— "legitimately disappointed in Tony Dungy"

— "congratulations @TonyDungy for being on what will turn out to be the WRONG side of history. too bad."

— "I had respect for Dungy. No longer. RT @Russ_Steinberg: Tony Dungy is a distraction"

— "Disappointed in @TonyDungy. His book Quiet Strength was so inspirational for me and is my favorite book. Shocked by his stance on Sam. #NFL"

— "So Tony Dungy wouldn't have taken Michael Sam b/c "things would happen"? Or b/c Dungy is very religious & Sam is gay?? #justsayit"

— "Tony Dungy LOVES being a mentor to young players. Unless you're gay. That's too much of a headache"


The rest are just adding the F word in mostly. It's Twitter, what'd you expect? Also, I don't have to be tolerant of bigoted people that try to legitimize discrimination. Sorry.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Did you even read this. Some of the "hateful" tweets you cite:

— legitimately disappointed in Tony Dungy

— congratulations @TonyDungy for being on what will turn out to be the WRONG side of history. too bad.

— I had respect for Dungy. No longer. RT @Russ_Steinberg: Tony Dungy is a distraction

— Disappointed in @TonyDungy. His book Quiet Strength was so inspirational for me and is my favorite book. Shocked by his stance on Sam. #NFL

— So Tony Dungy wouldn't have taken Michael Sam b/c "things would happen"? Or b/c Dungy is very religious & Sam is gay?? #justsayit

— Tony Dungy LOVES being a mentor to young players. Unless you're gay. That's too much of a headache

The rest are just adding the F word in mostly. It's Twitter, what'd you expect?

Twitter is a great litmus test for everything in life. I base most of my decisions and opinions upon the faceless masses that use 140 characters at a time.

[GGGG]

He has, just because advocating for those things doesn't put you in the press 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't happening by him, because they are.  He has advocated for such things for many years.

Did BrandX really say Dungy is fighting against gay marriage?  LOL.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  I suspect Dungy and others would say he was fighting FOR traditional marriage, one bound by Judeo Christian dogma, ethos, values, etc.   

And inequality.

[GGGG]

Nothing I enjoy more than reading how intolerant people are by the so called tolerant and seeing the "tolerant" in action.

It never disappoints, never.  This guy calls them the tolerance brigade, I've dubbed them the tolerance lobby.  Whatever, feel free to choose your descriptor, but some of these people probably are not smart enough to know the irony of their comments.

http://twitchy.com/2014/07/21/hateful-fck-tolerance-mob-lashes-out-at-tony-dungy-over-thoughts-on-michael-sam/

Wow.  Earthshattering news.  People are dicks on Twitter.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What did Dungy make a levels of distraction argument?  Did he make an argument that the amount of distraction Sam would generate was not commensurate with the benefit or talent he would bring to a team?  The answer to both is no, both are things he could have clarified in his follow-up statement, which he did not.  Therefore he is a hypocrite

Clearly you are attacking this man because he is black and Christian

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, it's bound by complete made-up bulls***. But, ya know, whatever works for you.

Some people are atheists and all of it is BS.  Some are Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc, believe in something else.  But, ya know, whatever works for YOU.

That's the point.  He has HIS views, for which the tolerance lobby says he essentially isn't allowed to have or will label him in their views as intolerant.  His religious views on the subject don't count (ironically).  It's always amazing to me that in this country the tolerance lobby doesn't seem to include religous views in their attributes of what can and cannot be considered in their equation.

Whatever works for you.  By the way, if the last 4 days doesn't show what a total distraction all of this can become, I don't know what else can.  Dungy was certainly right on that and in his football opinion, a 7th rounder isn't worth the distraction to getting his team ready and he wouldn't draft him.  I appreciate the man's honesty.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're not necessarily wrong, but nothing risked, nothing rewarded.

Eventually there will be a female majority owner, a female GM and a female head coach too. I'm sure there will be some weird scrutiny over those situations as well.

Don't let a vocal minority cloud your judgement.

People want Michael Sam to get a fair shot. That's it. If a some random media members go off the rails, so be it.

There has already been a female owner in the NFL and female GM's in major sports.

Michael Sam is getting a fair shot, he was drafted by someone.  What fairshot is he not getting?   The problem with the fair shot argument is it can be flipped.  Some might argue that some are getting MORE than a fair shot because it might be good PR or one might take up a roster position that isn't deserved because the fear of cutting said player brings about the same nonsense you just mentioned "he didn't get a fair shot". Of course these complaints will come from many media and special interest groups who didn't know what a football looked like 5 months ago, but whatever.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Twitter is a great litmus test for everything in life. I base most of my decisions and opinions upon the faceless masses that use 140 characters at a time.

Actually, it is the ultimate exposure of hypocrisy because many of the so called "tolerant" feel they can unleash their "tolerance" without repercussions which they don't always do.  It's terrific in that sense.  The anonymity allows them to be the ULTIMATE hypocrites.  Nothing exposes the tolerant more than their own intolerant remarks.  It happens like clockwork every time and the irony is delicious.