collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by Plaque Lives Matter!
[Today at 01:02:54 AM]


45 minutes ago at the Dallas Westin by MuggsyB
[Today at 12:19:24 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Plaque Lives Matter!
[Today at 12:10:57 AM]


2024 Transfer Portal by CountryRoads
[Today at 12:05:42 AM]


Are we still recruiting anyone for the 24-25 season. by Don_Kojis
[Today at 12:04:21 AM]


Where is Marquette? by marqfan22
[March 28, 2024, 09:29:52 PM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Daniel
[March 28, 2024, 08:47:22 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Deonte Burton as a sophomore  (Read 7285 times)

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23355
Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« on: July 21, 2014, 08:33:39 AM »
     Deonte has a world of talent.  Offensively, as a freshman, there were times that he took games over and looked unstoppable.   There were other times where he was a freshman gunner without a conscience.   There is no argument that he was able to get his shot almost any time he wanted.     Defensively, depending on which set of stats you choose to look at, he was either one of the best or one of the worst defenders on the team.  For all of the steals, deflections, blocks, there was an equal number of times where he stood watching the ball while his guy slipped in behind him for a lay up.
     
    Going forward, what is a reasonable expectation for him?  Will he be able to get his shot when consistently guarded by the best defensive big on the other team?   Will he have a countermove when defenses are geared to stop him?   Will he be able to stay out of foul trouble when consistently guarding 6'7 and larger forwards?   What happens when he puts his shoulder down and teams start flopping?   Can he guard in space?   Will he be able to rebound outside of his immediate area?   Will he be in condition to handle 25-30 mpg?
     It is asking a lot for a 6'4 sophomore wrecking ball to answer all of these question positively.  The more he is able to answer positively, the better MU's season will be.   
       
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

🏀

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8467
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 08:40:54 AM »
The indenting of this post is incredible.

WarriorFan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1629
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 09:44:45 AM »
Just give him the ball.  By the hime he fouls out, we'll be up by 50.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

brandx

  • Guest
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 11:08:29 AM »
Deonte is a scorer, so he will score a lot of points.

There will be many discussions of his defense throughout the year, but he has shown effort when he isn't winded, so I think it will be good enough.

Canned Goods n Ammo

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5008
  • Ammo, clean shaven Ammo.
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 11:16:34 AM »
Physically, the kid is super talented, at both ends of the floor.

The next step for him will be learning to play hard all of the time (no mental lapses).

After that, he just has to learn enough control so he knows when he should go for the steal on defense or try to create his own shot on offense, and when to just play position defense and make the correct pass on offense.

He can be a high volume player (take and make a lot of shots), but efficiency will be important in his development.

LAZER

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 11:19:38 AM »
Physically, the kid is super talented, at both ends of the floor.

The next step for him will be learning to play hard all of the time (no mental lapses).

After that, he just has to learn enough control so he knows when he should go for the steal on defense or try to create his own shot on offense, and when to just play position defense and make the correct pass on offense.

He can be a high volume player (take and make a lot of shots), but efficiency will be important in his development.

I'm looking forward to a new defensive system, wasn't crazy about Buzz's.

keefe

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8331
  • "Death From Above"
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 01:58:32 PM »
I'm looking forward to a new defensive system, wasn't crazy about Buzz's.

I think we all knew that when Bert started using cue cards there was a fundamental problem with his defensive schemes...


Death on call

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23355
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 02:49:34 PM »
Yep, this team didn't grasp them, unlike JFB who may have moved up in the draft based on his intricate knowledge of the vast permutations of guarding the pick-and-roll. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3192
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 09:20:32 PM »
I thought Burton played outstanding defense with his quickness making steals, deflected passes and rebounds .  At )'5" he plYs as though he's 6'8".  Can't wIt to watch him dominate games this year.

GurneeHitchkr

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 09:29:45 PM »
I think with Wojo at the helm, and with Wojo's mentoring, Burton will be what we expect him to be.  Had Bert stayed, Burton would have been somewhere else. 

Keep that in mind.  Burton would have been somewhere else.

VegasWarrior77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2378
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 09:45:50 PM »
Had Bert stayed, Burton would have been somewhere else.

Probably JJJ too!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17384
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 09:48:46 PM »
I think with Wojo at the helm, and with Wojo's mentoring, Burton will be what we expect him to be.  Had Bert stayed, Burton would have been somewhere else. 

Keep that in mind.  Burton would have been somewhere else.

Well, you're wrong about the end.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 10:46:08 PM »
I thought Burton played outstanding defense with his quickness making steals, deflected passes and rebounds .  At )'5" he plYs as though he's 6'8".  Can't wIt to watch him dominate games this year.

Deonte struggled a little with his on-ball defense - yet some here want to make him into this huge defensive liability. It's the same faction that thought Buzz was beyond reproach last season in his coaching, and the same faction that puts more stock in "the things that don't show up in a box score" versus actual production.  I tend to like measurable production.  Deonte was far and away the most disruptive defensive player we had last year.  Yes, he was out of position on occasion, but he also was trying to make plays defensively and use his instincts to make some of those plays - and often times he did make plays, create a turnover/block a shot, etc.

Burton is the best talent at MU since Wade.  Period.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 12:50:44 AM »
Deonte struggled a little with his on-ball defense - yet some here want to make him into this huge defensive liability. It's the same faction that thought Buzz was beyond reproach last season in his coaching, and the same faction that puts more stock in "the things that don't show up in a box score" versus actual production.  I tend to like measurable production.  Deonte was far and away the most disruptive defensive player we had last year.  Yes, he was out of position on occasion, but he also was trying to make plays defensively and use his instincts to make some of those plays - and often times he did make plays, create a turnover/block a shot, etc.

Burton is the best talent at MU since Wade.  Period.

That is a HUGE leap.  I mean you're saying that Burton has more talent than the two other NBA players on the that final four team, our all time leading scorer, a starter allmost all-star on Portland, two first rounders in Lazar and Butler, the Big East POY and one of our best from this era in DJO. Heck I'll even include Vander in that list.  I mean I'm a really big Burton fan and think he has a high ceiling, but to call him the best talent since Wade based off last year seems to be a leap.  I mean remember when STJ was a frosh and everyone was saying how he was unbelievably talented and had a huge ceiling but then slumped last year? Things happen that can change things. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22058
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 01:57:15 AM »
That is a HUGE leap.  I mean you're saying that Burton has more talent than the two other NBA players on the that final four team, our all time leading scorer, a starter allmost all-star on Portland, two first rounders in Lazar and Butler, the Big East POY and one of our best from this era in DJO. Heck I'll even include Vander in that list.  I mean I'm a really big Burton fan and think he has a high ceiling, but to call him the best talent since Wade based off last year seems to be a leap.  I mean remember when STJ was a frosh and everyone was saying how he was unbelievably talented and had a huge ceiling but then slumped last year? Things happen that can change things. 

Ners is nothing if not bold. He likes to make claims early and get on bandwagons early. Sometimes he is right (Buzz and Davante). Sometimes he misses (Erik Williams and Jamail Jones). In this case, I hope he's right.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22730
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 06:34:14 AM »
Ners is nothing if not bold. He likes to make claims early and get on bandwagons early. Sometimes he is right (Buzz and Davante). Sometimes he misses (Erik Williams and Jamail Jones). In this case, I hope he's right.

Methinks Ners even was on You Know Who's bandwagon early (after a certain game against Wisconsin), and we know how that turned out!

But that's why we love him.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2014, 07:58:46 AM »
Methinks Ners even was on You Know Who's bandwagon early (after a certain game against Wisconsin), and we know how that turned out!

But that's why we love him.

Nice.  I'll give credit where credit is due and acknowledge a good performance, particularly considering circumstances.  Derrick played a nice game as a FRESHMAN at Madison.  Very solid defense, didn't screw up, and was on the road against a 1st All Big 10 guy in Jordan Taylor.  Yet when I see performance that is really poor - I don't sugarcoat it.  Just as I was a huge Buzz fan his first 5 years, and probably one of his biggest fans on this board in those 5 years - last season I was very critical as it was obvious he wasn't coaching well for whatever reason(s).  Much the same with Derrick...it was clear he was not a 30 minute per game PG at this level.  In general, I like to see the good in people/players first, yet won't ignore the bad just by virtue of them having some good qualities initially.  If the bad qualities become predominant as a player/coach, it is at that point I re-evaluate and stop supporting.  Not sure if that makes me a fair weather fan, or just someone who likes to win.



"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2014, 08:08:05 AM »
That is a HUGE leap.  I mean you're saying that Burton has more talent than the two other NBA players on the that final four team, our all time leading scorer, a starter allmost all-star on Portland, two first rounders in Lazar and Butler, the Big East POY and one of our best from this era in DJO. Heck I'll even include Vander in that list.  I mean I'm a really big Burton fan and think he has a high ceiling, but to call him the best talent since Wade based off last year seems to be a leap.  I mean remember when STJ was a frosh and everyone was saying how he was unbelievably talented and had a huge ceiling but then slumped last year? Things happen that can change things. 

These are all good and fair points you raise.  I realize it was a bold statement to make about Burton.  But NONE of the guys you listed either were on campus as a freshman, or if they were - showed the immediate impact that Burton did as a freshman - certainly not in 12 minutes per game of average playing time.  Dominic James actually was the best looking freshman out of everyone other than Wade, and of course we saw him regress/lose confidence in his shot, etc., so it can happen.

Burton, in my view, resembles Wade, and his ability to just dominate a game.  His athleticism is of the elite variety that Wade had.  None of Jerel, Wes, Jimmy, Jae, Lazar, DJO, Vander are ELITE athletes in the context of NCAA D-1 basketball players.  Guys like Wade, Dominic, Deonte - they are Top 3-5 percentile athletes in the college game.  The other guys perhaps in the Top 10-15 percentile.  Vander?  Very good athlete, wouldn't say a great basketball athlete - in that he, like Jamil and even DJO, plays very erect, doesn't have great body lean, nor nearly as explosive of first step as guys like Wade or Deonte.  And also, if you look at Vander's freshman and sophomore years...and compare to Burton - it's almost embarrassing to compare.  Burton looks already like a man among boys at this level as a freshman...Vander looked like a 10th grader among men as a freshman.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2014, 08:16:10 AM »
That is a HUGE leap.  I mean you're saying that Burton has more talent than the two other NBA players on the that final four team, our all time leading scorer, a starter allmost all-star on Portland, two first rounders in Lazar and Butler, the Big East POY and one of our best from this era in DJO. Heck I'll even include Vander in that list.  I mean I'm a really big Burton fan and think he has a high ceiling, but to call him the best talent since Wade based off last year seems to be a leap.  I mean remember when STJ was a frosh and everyone was saying how he was unbelievably talented and had a huge ceiling but then slumped last year? Things happen that can change things. 


If you compare Deonte with Matthews, Hayward, and Blue, a case could be made that Deonte's freshman stats were the most impressive offensively than any of them.  In limited usage, he was very good. 

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22730
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2014, 08:36:40 AM »
These are all good and fair points you raise.  I realize it was a bold statement to make about Burton.  But NONE of the guys you listed either were on campus as a freshman, or if they were - showed the immediate impact that Burton did as a freshman - certainly not in 12 minutes per game of average playing time.  Dominic James actually was the best looking freshman out of everyone other than Wade, and of course we saw him regress/lose confidence in his shot, etc., so it can happen.

Burton, in my view, resembles Wade, and his ability to just dominate a game.  His athleticism is of the elite variety that Wade had.  None of Jerel, Wes, Jimmy, Jae, Lazar, DJO, Vander are ELITE athletes in the context of NCAA D-1 basketball players.  Guys like Wade, Dominic, Deonte - they are Top 3-5 percentile athletes in the college game.  The other guys perhaps in the Top 10-15 percentile.  Vander?  Very good athlete, wouldn't say a great basketball athlete - in that he, like Jamil and even DJO, plays very erect, doesn't have great body lean, nor nearly as explosive of first step as guys like Wade or Deonte.  And also, if you look at Vander's freshman and sophomore years...and compare to Burton - it's almost embarrassing to compare.  Burton looks already like a man among boys at this level as a freshman...Vander looked like a 10th grader among men as a freshman.

I think you're right about Dominic. Had he declared after his freshman year, he probably would have been drafted. While Dom continued to be a good college player, especially defensively, here's hoping Burton's career has a better trajectory!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Silkk the Shaka

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5376
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 09:12:25 AM »
Physically, the kid is super talented, at both ends of the floor.

The next step for him will be learning to play hard all of the time (no mental lapses).

After that, he just has to learn enough control so he knows when he should go for the steal on defense or try to create his own shot on offense, and when to just play position defense and make the correct pass on offense.

He can be a high volume player (take and make a lot of shots), but efficiency will be important in his development.

While Deonte certainly hasn't met a shot he doesn't like (a comically high 33% shot % - which I love about him btw), he had a higher ORtg (101.4) as a frosh than Lazar (100.5), Wesley (99.1), Vander (89.1), and Jerel (87.7). They each had peak ORtgs of 114.1, 116.8, 104.2, and 108.6, respectively. While I certainly hope he doesn't stagnate in the 101.4 range, and he's definitely a high volume shooter at heart, he's already more advanced in the efficiency department than some of our recent best were as frosh. If he can improve from frosh ORtg to peak ORtg like those listed (15-20 points), he will be an absolute MONSTER. The sky is the limit for Deonte, I really hope he gets there. It will likely require that shot % to come down to a still-high upper 20's, however.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10461
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2014, 09:16:40 AM »
These are all good and fair points you raise.  I realize it was a bold statement to make about Burton.  But NONE of the guys you listed either were on campus as a freshman, or if they were - showed the immediate impact that Burton did as a freshman - certainly not in 12 minutes per game of average playing time.  Dominic James actually was the best looking freshman out of everyone other than Wade, and of course we saw him regress/lose confidence in his shot, etc., so it can happen.

Burton, in my view, resembles Wade, and his ability to just dominate a game.  His athleticism is of the elite variety that Wade had.  None of Jerel, Wes, Jimmy, Jae, Lazar, DJO, Vander are ELITE athletes in the context of NCAA D-1 basketball players.  Guys like Wade, Dominic, Deonte - they are Top 3-5 percentile athletes in the college game.  The other guys perhaps in the Top 10-15 percentile.  Vander?  Very good athlete, wouldn't say a great basketball athlete - in that he, like Jamil and even DJO, plays very erect, doesn't have great body lean, nor nearly as explosive of first step as guys like Wade or Deonte.  And also, if you look at Vander's freshman and sophomore years...and compare to Burton - it's almost embarrassing to compare.  Burton looks already like a man among boys at this level as a freshman...Vander looked like a 10th grader among men as a freshman.

In all fairness you can say Wade showed an immediate impact as a freshman either seeing as he was ineligible. 
Maigh Eo for Sam

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2014, 09:18:21 AM »
I mean remember when STJ was a frosh and everyone was saying how he was unbelievably talented and had a huge ceiling but then slumped last year?


I'm not sure that Taylor ever recovered fully from the offseason knee surgery.  We'll see this year because he will get plenty of opportunity.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22730
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2014, 09:19:30 AM »
As a little-used freshman, Deonte was not the focus of opposing coaches' defensive game plans.

If he becomes our No. 1 scoring option, as very well could happen, it will be interesting to see how opponents game-plan for him.

And it then will be even more interesting to see how Wojo and Deonte adjust to that increased attention.

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Canned Goods n Ammo

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5008
  • Ammo, clean shaven Ammo.
Re: Deonte Burton as a sophomore
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2014, 09:37:39 AM »
While Deonte certainly hasn't met a shot he doesn't like (a comically high 33% shot % - which I love about him btw), he had a higher ORtg (101.4) as a frosh than Lazar (100.5), Wesley (99.1), Vander (89.1), and Jerel (87.7). They each had peak ORtgs of 114.1, 116.8, 104.2, and 108.6, respectively. While I certainly hope he doesn't stagnate in the 101.4 range, and he's definitely a high volume shooter at heart, he's already more advanced in the efficiency department than some of our recent best were as frosh. If he can improve from frosh ORtg to peak ORtg like those listed (15-20 points), he will be an absolute MONSTER. The sky is the limit for Deonte, I really hope he gets there. It will likely require that shot % to come down to a still-high upper 20's, however.

Great point. I hadn't look at the advanced stats, I was merely going by the eye test.

I know Deonte can get a shot whenever he wants, and he makes a good amount. The challenge will be improving that efficiency rating as his usage goes up. It's hard to do, but I think the talent is there.

I think it might be like watching Jerel sometimes. You would be saying "No. No. No. Don't... Oh, good play." We're going to have to take some good with the bad.


 

feedback