Heldt or Stone

[wadesworld]

Anyone can find people to buy their schtick, no matter how crazy it may be.

Yup.

[keefe]

Anyone can find people to buy their schtick, no matter how crazy it may be.

Of all the idiots the san Diego Spaceship Mass Suicide takes the cake.

[77ncaachamps]

Heldt committed. So, I go with Matt.

If Diamond wants to join the party, we'll be happy to scoot over to make a lot of space for him.

[Warrior Code]

Heldt is a reality.  Stone is still a fantasy.   I will take the bird in hand.  

Yep. I want the player who wants to be here.

[brandx]

Gary Cole was really good.I think Al probably should have taken him.

I played against Cole a lot and he was a high major player. Spent a few years in the NBA.

But, with his grades, no school would touch him. If he had to perform in the classroom at all, he wouldn't even have qualified at Parkside.

With any grades at all, he would have been a warrior.

[real chili 83]

I played against Cole a lot and he was a high major player. Spent a few years in the NBA.

But, with his grades, no school would touch him. If he had to perform in the classroom at all, he wouldn't even have qualified at Parkside.

With any grades at all, he would have been a warrior.

You mean Abdul.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Jeelani

[brandx]

You mean Abdul.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Jeelani

He was still Gary when I played against him.

[real chili 83]

A Lew Alcindor wanna be!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yup.

These guys did.....losers / suckers


   







 

[alexius23]

I recall how hard MU pushed to get Joe Wolfe. His parent sat on the then Press Bench any time they wanted. I knew long before he signed his letter of intent he would go to North Carolina. His coaching choices: Dean Smith or a struggling Rick
Majerus. Rick needed much more time as an assistant before he became head coach. His best years were after he left MU.

[Lennys Tap]

I recall how hard MU pushed to get Joe Wolfe. His parent sat on the then Press Bench any time they wanted. I knew long before he signed his letter of intent he would go to North Carolina. His coaching choices: Dean Smith or a struggling Rick
Majerus. Rick needed much more time as an assistant before he became head coach. His best years were after he left MU.

If there would have been a Scoop back then I'm sure some would say "I'll take Tom Copa over Joe Wolf - as silly as wanting Heldt over Stone.

[brandx]

If there would have been a Scoop back then I'm sure some would say "I'll take Tom Copa over Joe Wolf - as silly as wanting Heldt over Stone.

+1

[We R Final Four]

When MU wins the title again I have no doubt Chicos will give Tan Tommy credit somehow.......and then he will blame his never ending love affair on those who did not equally criticize other coaches similarily.

[Goose]

Lenny

Right on with the Copa and Wolf comparison. No brainer on Stone.

[hoops12]

I recall how hard MU pushed to get Joe Wolfe. His parent sat on the then Press Bench any time they wanted. I knew long before he signed his letter of intent he would go to North Carolina. His coaching choices: Dean Smith or a struggling Rick
Majerus. Rick needed much more time as an assistant before he became head coach. His best years were after he left MU.

This is not a very intelligent comment. Majerus would have had Wolff his very first year as a head coach. How could you refer to him as "a struggling Rick Majerus" when Wolf was making his decision. Rick hadn't coached a game yet! Two recruits really hurt Rick. Joe Wolf and Rick Olson. Olson verbally committed to Marquette. I would know since we are great friends and I made the visit to Marquette with him. After committing, Olson got a great deal of pressure from Wisconsin backers (Bo Ryan, Dave McClain and Andy North). He buckled to the pressure and called Majerus and asked him to tell him what to do. To Majerus's credit, he told Olson that this was strictly his decision. Olson signed with Wisconsin the next day. Even a year or two after, Rick Olson said he felt the pressure from the Madison group that told him, "He owed it to Madison and the state of Wisconsin." In my opinion, either one of these players would have put Majerus over the top. If both would have went to MU, we would have been outstanding! In Rick's three years at Marquette they were always one player away from great success.

Look below and imagine what the records may have been if his teams would have had Wolf and Olson on them. No one will ever know for sure, but I truly feel most of these losses would have been wins. Olson was a deadly shooter, and Wolf was a great all around player. Keep in mind we also had Doc Rivers (for one season) and Kerry Trotter during those seasons as well.

1983-84 Season (17-13)
 
at Clemson               loss by 6 in OT
at Providence            loss by 4 in OT
Wake Forest             loss by 6 in OT
at Northern Illinois     loss by 1
Missouri                   loss by 1
Colorado                  loss by 4
at Marshall               loss by 1
at Xavier                  loss by 14 in OT
at Notre Dame          loss by 9
at Loyola                  loss by 4

1984-85 Season (20-11)

Kansas State            loss by 1
at Minnesota            loss by 8
Gonzaga                  loss by 6
Texas A&M              loss by 8
Notre Dame             loss by 1
at Notre Dame         loss by 6

1985-86 Season (19-11 Record)

at Wisconsin           loss by 1
Bradley                  loss by 2
at Northern Illinios   loss by 6
at Kansas State       loss by 1
North Carolina         loss by 2
at VCU                   loss by 5
at Notre Dame        loss by 2 in OT
Notre Dame            loss by 8
at DePaul               loss by 8

[GGGG]

I grew up in Madison, and Ricky Olson was a good, but hardly a player that was going to make or break a program.  I mean the best he accomplished was a third team all Big Ten selection.  (And I realize that he was on some bad Wisconsin teams.)

[willie warrior]

This is not a very intelligent comment. Majerus would have had Wolff his very first year as a head coach. How could you refer to him as "a struggling Rick Majerus" when Wolf was making his decision. Rick hadn't coached a game yet! Two recruits really hurt Rick. Joe Wolf and Rick Olson. Olson verbally committed to Marquette. I would know since we are great friends and I made the visit to Marquette with him. After committing, Olson got a great deal of pressure from Wisconsin backers (Bo Ryan, Dave McClain and Andy North). He buckled to the pressure and called Majerus and asked him to tell him what to do. To Majerus's credit, he told Olson that this was strictly his decision. Olson signed with Wisconsin the next day. Even a year or two after, Rick Olson said he felt the pressure from the Madison group that told him, "He owed it to Madison and the state of Wisconsin." In my opinion, either one of these players would have put Majerus over the top. If both would have went to MU, we would have been outstanding! In Rick's three years at Marquette they were always one player away from great success.

Look below and imagine what the records may have been if his teams would have had Wolf and Olson on them. No one will ever know for sure, but I truly feel most of these losses would have been wins. Olson was a deadly shooter, and Wolf was a great all around player. Keep in mind we also had Doc Rivers (for one season) and Kerry Trotter during those seasons as well.

1983-84 Season (17-13)
 
at Clemson               loss by 6 in OT
at Providence            loss by 4 in OT
Wake Forest             loss by 6 in OT
at Northern Illinois     loss by 1
Missouri                   loss by 1
Colorado                  loss by 4
at Marshall               loss by 1
at Xavier                  loss by 14 in OT
at Notre Dame          loss by 9
at Loyola                  loss by 4

1984-85 Season (20-11)

Kansas State            loss by 1
at Minnesota            loss by 8
Gonzaga                  loss by 6
Texas A&M              loss by 8
Notre Dame             loss by 1
at Notre Dame         loss by 6

1985-86 Season (19-11 Record)

at Wisconsin           loss by 1
Bradley                  loss by 2
at Northern Illinios   loss by 6
at Kansas State       loss by 1
North Carolina         loss by 2
at VCU                   loss by 5
at Notre Dame        loss by 2 in OT
Notre Dame            loss by 8
at DePaul               loss by 8

Rick probably was struggling and I am guessing that back then as college BB was going through a huge transition that Rick did not get the backing from the admin he needed. Olson and/or Wolf would have been huge. Rick turned out to be a great coach, and would have been great at MU also. His health was long an issue for him, and the stress of his love, BBall, probably did him in. Did not know that Bo Ryan played a role in turning Olson back to UW. Just proves what I always thought; Bo is a great coach, but a world class prick.

[hoops12]

I grew up in Madison, and Ricky Olson was a good, but hardly a player that was going to make or break a program.  I mean the best he accomplished was a third team all Big Ten selection.  (And I realize that he was on some bad Wisconsin teams.)

I played at Sun Prairie against Rick Olson in high school and we battled in many games. They actually beat us in the sectional finals to get to state my senior season. Prior to our senior season, I attended B/C Camp in Georgia and roomed with Olson. He shined "big time" at that camp. He was named 1st team All Camp that week. (10 players made that team) Out of the 300 (invite only) campers, most of those basketball players played division one basketball. So, Olson was extremely talented coming out of high school. He turned down some very big named programs. He went to UW, but he was recruited by almost everyone around the country.

He did play on some poor teams at Wisconsin, but could have played a huge role at MU. To be an all league performer, you need to be a good player and your team needs to have success as well. Whatever the case, he is in Wisconsin's Hall of Fame. At the time he graduated, he was Wisconsin's second all time leading scorer in history by only one point. Meaning if he had another basket, he would have been #1. He was also named Sports Illustrated Player of the Week when he had back to back games against Michigan and Michigan State where he scored over 30 a game. I think you have to be pretty decent player to do that. So, please don't downplay the type of player he was. He was damn good!

The reason why he would have made a huge impact at MU is, at that time we had no one that could shoot it. If you remember, everyone played zone and "Doc" really struggled to get loose. I believe that was a big reason why he left for the NBA. Olson would have opened that zone up, and created gaps for Doc. He was a pure shooter and had one of the quickest releases I've ever seen.

Olson and Wolf would have made a HUGE difference during those years at MU. No doubt about it! Additional Rick Olson career stats below. Enjoy!

Ranks 5th on all-time scoring list with 1,736 points
3rd on career minutes played list (3,962) and 3rd in games started; tied with Michael Finley with 112 (started every game in his four year career)
UWs career leader in free throw percentage (.870)
1984 named Sports Illustrated player of the week with 39 points (defeated Michigan) and 29 points (defeated Michigan State) in consecutive games
1984 named to all-tournament teams at New Mexico and Arizona in last two seasons (scored 47 points in Fiesta Bowl tournament)
1984 led Big Ten in free throws with .923 (48-52); 1986 2nd with .885 (69-78)
1984 3rd all-time in total points in a single game (39) vs. Michigan
2nd and 3rd on all-time season free throw percentage list (.894 in 1984 and .890 in 1985)
1985 set then-Big Ten record for consecutive free throws made (36)
1985 currently tied for 1st for most field goals (17) vs. San Francisco State (12/2)
1985 honorable mention All-Big Ten
1986 team captain
1986 team mvp
1986 third-team All-Big Ten
1986 selected in seventh round (158th overall) of NBA Draft by Houston
1986 one of four Big Ten players to average over 20 point per game
1986 named UPI player of the week for his 61-point effort in games against Purdue (30) and Illinois (31)
1986 led the team in scoring with 571 points, a 20.4 average, as well as minutes played, free throw percentage and steals
1986 tied for 2nd all-time in season field goals (237)
1986 currently tied for 1st for best free throw percentage in a single game 1.000 (14-14) vs. Purdue (2/13)
Career stats: 112 games, 729 fg, 1535 fga for .475 pct, 260 ft, 299 fta for .869 pct, 204 rebounds (1.4avg), 259 assists, 254 personal fouls, 1736 points for a 15.5avg.
2000 Madison Sports Hall of Fame inductee
2006 Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Hall of Fame inductee

[NersEllenson]

I played at Sun Prairie against Rick Olson in high school and we battled in many games. They actually beat us in the sectional finals to get to state my senior season. Prior to our senior season, I attended B/C Camp in Georgia and roomed with Olson. He shined "big time" at that camp. He was named 1st team All Camp that week. (10 players made that team) Out of the 300 (invite only) campers, most of those basketball players played division one basketball. So, Olson was extremely talented coming out of high school. He turned down some very big named programs. He went to UW, but he was recruited by almost everyone around the country.

He did play on some poor teams at Wisconsin, but could have played a huge role at MU. To be an all league performer, you need to be a good player and your team needs to have success as well. Whatever the case, he is in Wisconsin's Hall of Fame. At the time he graduated, he was Wisconsin's second all time leading scorer in history by only one point. He was also named Sports Illustrated Player of the Week when he had back to back games against Michigan and Michigan State were he scored over 30 a game. I think you have to be pretty decent player to do that. So, please don't downplay the type of player he was. He was damn good!

The reason why he would have made a huge impact at MU is, at that time we had no one that could shoot it. If you remember, everyone played zone and "Doc" really struggled to get loose. I believe that was a big reason why he left for the NBA. Olson would have opened that zone up, and created gaps for Doc. He was a pure shooter and had one of the quickest releases I've ever seen.

Olson and Wolf would have made a HUGE difference during those years at MU. No doubt about it!

Nice background stories Hoops12....good info and knowledge.  Thanks for sharing.

[Texas Western]

I played at Sun Prairie against Rick Olson in high school and we battled in many games. They actually beat us in the sectional finals to get to state my senior season. Prior to our senior season, I attended B/C Camp in Georgia and roomed with Olson. He shined "big time" at that camp. He was named 1st team All Camp that week. (10 players made that team) Out of the 300 (invite only) campers, most of those basketball players played division one basketball. So, Olson was extremely talented coming out of high school. He turned down some very big named programs. He went to UW, but he was recruited by almost everyone around the country.

He did play on some poor teams at Wisconsin, but could have played a huge role at MU. To be an all league performer, you need to be a good player and your team needs to have success as well. Whatever the case, he is in Wisconsin's Hall of Fame. At the time he graduated, he was Wisconsin's second all time leading scorer in history by only one point. Meaning if he had another basket, he would have been #1. He was also named Sports Illustrated Player of the Week when he had back to back games against Michigan and Michigan State where he scored over 30 a game. I think you have to be pretty decent player to do that. So, please don't downplay the type of player he was. He was damn good!

The reason why he would have made a huge impact at MU is, at that time we had no one that could shoot it. If you remember, everyone played zone and "Doc" really struggled to get loose. I believe that was a big reason why he left for the NBA. Olson would have opened that zone up, and created gaps for Doc. He was a pure shooter and had one of the quickest releases I've ever seen.

Olson and Wolf would have made a HUGE difference during those years at MU. No doubt about it! Additional Rick Olson career stats below. Enjoy!

Ranks 5th on all-time scoring list with 1,736 points
3rd on career minutes played list (3,962) and 3rd in games started; tied with Michael Finley with 112 (started every game in his four year career)
UWs career leader in free throw percentage (.870)
1984 named Sports Illustrated player of the week with 39 points (defeated Michigan) and 29 points (defeated Michigan State) in consecutive games
1984 named to all-tournament teams at New Mexico and Arizona in last two seasons (scored 47 points in Fiesta Bowl tournament)
1984 led Big Ten in free throws with .923 (48-52); 1986 2nd with .885 (69-78)
1984 3rd all-time in total points in a single game (39) vs. Michigan
2nd and 3rd on all-time season free throw percentage list (.894 in 1984 and .890 in 1985)
1985 set then-Big Ten record for consecutive free throws made (36)
1985 currently tied for 1st for most field goals (17) vs. San Francisco State (12/2)
1985 honorable mention All-Big Ten
1986 team captain
1986 team mvp
1986 third-team All-Big Ten
1986 selected in seventh round (158th overall) of NBA Draft by Houston
1986 one of four Big Ten players to average over 20 point per game
1986 named UPI player of the week for his 61-point effort in games against Purdue (30) and Illinois (31)
1986 led the team in scoring with 571 points, a 20.4 average, as well as minutes played, free throw percentage and steals
1986 tied for 2nd all-time in season field goals (237)
1986 currently tied for 1st for best free throw percentage in a single game 1.000 (14-14) vs. Purdue (2/13)
Career stats: 112 games, 729 fg, 1535 fga for .475 pct, 260 ft, 299 fta for .869 pct, 204 rebounds (1.4avg), 259 assists, 254 personal fouls, 1736 points for a 15.5avg.
2000 Madison Sports Hall of Fame inductee
2006 Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Hall of Fame inductee

I agree with you Olson was a fantastic player and would have totally changed things for the Warriors. Back in those days recruiting was not as sophisticated. Jud Heathcoate at Michigan State would actually take random phone calls about prospects(there was no internet fax limited cable tv etc). I called him about Olson fairly late in the process, he thought it sounded interesting ,made a few follow up calls of his own to people he knew and they pursued him. Heathcoate had a funny sense of humor ,after Olson torched State he told me it was my fault for not calling him earlier.

[GGGG]

Well hoops, maybe I'm just letting my memories of watching Olson cloud by judgement.  Because by and large I always thought the legend of Ricky Olson overshadowed the reality.  But you are right.  Those are nice accomplishments especially considering how bad UW was.  I just don't know if he ever really lived up to the hype.

And believe me I wasn't a hater.  My mom was a teacher at LaFollette back then so I went to a bunch of his games, mostly because my high school (West) was pretty awful at the time.

[hoops12]

Madison West tied for the title with La Follette that year. They had a very nice team! Curt Schlict played center (6'6"), Mike Todd (6'7") at one forward, and Troy Lamar (6'6") at the other forward. Schlict went to UW for football, Todd played basketball at Arkansas State, and Lamar played at USC. Their starting point guard ended up playing baseball at UW. I believe his last name was Brown. They were loaded with talent. The entire Big Eight Conference was loaded with talent back then. Many guys from that year got scholarships. Also, the year prior to that Madison West lost a nail biter at State with another outstanding team. Boyce Hodge, and state player of the year Steve Bartow were on that team along with the cast members that I just mentioned.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Just checked in to read more about Heldt or Stone and found the topic is off the subject.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Just checked in to read more about Heldt or Stone and found the topic is off the subject.

 

[bilsu]

There was another point guard Majerus could of had, but when Olson committed Majerus stopped recruiting him. When Olson backed out it was to late to get the other point guard.