Buzz on getting better.........

[keefe]

"You better you better you bet"  -- Pete Townshend

[77ncaachamps]

Buzz did a great job at Marquette. Frankly, I thought we could some day compete for a National Championship with him here; I never thought that about Crean (although Crean should be congratulated for getting the program to where Buzz could succeed).

Buzz was also quirky and bizarre, but he was our "quirky and bizarre." So, while he was here, that was all good. Now that he is gone, it will obviously annoy the heck out of us.

The real disappointment for me in Buzz was the loyalty factor. He flew the coop at the first sign of troubled waters. Worse yet, he took parting shots at Marquette and its conference when he left so as to explain his downward departure. In the end, Buzz showed himself to be an insecure coward without the strength or resolve to run the marathon. That doesn't detract from who he is and what he could sell, or the great years we had under him. But, it does make appreciating his work here a little more difficult.

As for his phoniness, I am not so sure he is a phony; I just think he is a hypocrite in many ways. It is more a matter of "do as I say and not as I do." There were signs of this early on. Despite portraying himself as a humble servant, I remember being struck by the peculiarity of his obsession with expensive tailored suits early on in his tenure. I remember an article where he basically boasted about his expensive wardrobe and I thought to myself, this piece doesn't seem to match the rest of the puzzle. In the end, the fact is, what Buzz preaches sells and that is all that matters to him. What Buzz actually does, can at times be a complete and diametric opposite. However, there is also genuine goodness in him as well (see numerous stories about his good will, his thoughtfulness, Buzz's bunch, etc.).

Good luck to Buzz. He has his positive traits and he has his faults, as do we all. One of my faults is a lack of forgiveness and so I hope he fails miserable.

On a side note, I am much less certain about Marquette's program now than I was a year ago with Buzz at the helm. I certainly hope Wojo can fill the role - and he appears to be doing and saying all the right things - but none can deny the uncertainty. Color me nervous.

You know Cam, I agree to an extent with his quirkiness being phoniness, and possibly Buzz being a hypocrite.

If there's one thing that we've seen since UNO and him leapfrogging from place to place is he's always looking ahead.
So, along with it comes the "schtick": say the "right" things, do the "right" things, "throw a good pitch" to the fans, "throw a good pitch" to the administration.

But you can't call him a hypocrite and not look at the good deeds he does without some doubt.
Does he REALLY care that much?
Is it ALL contrived? Or just SOME of it contrived?
Does he understand the power of "holding a story back" and then "releasing it to the press" so he appears to be humble?

I hope to the Man above that he isn't jerking people around.

[tower912]

I think he means what he says in the moment he says it.   I think he meant to stay at MU as long as they wanted him.   I think he no longer felt wanted so he was free to seek other opportunities.   

There was a guy who everybody knew was an absolute weasel.  His nickname was actually 'Weasel'. There was nobody he wouldn't backstab, sabotage, hinder, no trick he wouldn't pull,  in order to advance his own career.  Eventually, he fooled enough people in city hall to be made chief.   There was hope that since he had achieved what he had worked so long for, maybe he would stop being a douchebag.   Turns out that being a douchebag wasn't a means to an end, it was his nature.

Prior to Marquette, Buzz's nature was a vagabond.   I thought that having the really good gig that he had would ease his need to be constantly looking for the next job.    Well, as soon as things got tough, the vagabond aspect of his nature came back to the fore.   And he left.     He is a hell of a coach.   The coaching situation that actually gets him to finally lose that vagabond element of his personality is going to have a nice long run.  I just don't know if that exists. 

[brandx]

I think he means what he says in the moment he says it.   I think he meant to stay at MU as long as they wanted him.   I think he no longer felt wanted so he was free to seek other opportunities.   

There was a guy who everybody knew was an absolute weasel.  His nickname was actually 'Weasel'. There was nobody he wouldn't backstab, sabotage, hinder, no trick he wouldn't pull,  in order to advance his own career.  Eventually, he fooled enough people in city hall to be made chief.   There was hope that since he had achieved what he had worked so long for, maybe he would stop being a douchebag.   Turns out that being a douchebag wasn't a means to an end, it was his nature.

Prior to Marquette, Buzz's nature was a vagabond.   I thought that having the really good gig that he had would ease his need to be constantly looking for the next job.    Well, as soon as things got tough, the vagabond aspect of his nature came back to the fore.   And he left.     He is a hell of a coach.   The coaching situation that actually gets him to finally lose that vagabond element of his personality is going to have a nice long run.  I just don't know if that exists. 

Pretty well written.

The only part I disagree with (or may disagree with) is that he is a very good coach. I don't know if he is or not or whether he gets by because of intensity and emotion.

And that will run its course quickly (5+ years at MU) no matter where he is coaching.
The fact that he won as long as his team played harder than the other team makes me feel this way. Once he lost the team and the hustle and emotion disappeared, he couldn't win.

[4everwarriors]

Better to kiss this mofo off, hey?

[tower912]

Pretty well written.

The only part I disagree with (or may disagree with) is that he is a very good coach. I don't know if he is or not or whether he gets by because of intensity and emotion.

And that will run its course quickly (5+ years at MU) no matter where he is coaching.
The fact that he won as long as his team played harder than the other team makes me feel this way. Once he lost the team and the hustle and emotion disappeared, he couldn't win.

Last year was frustrating for everyone and changed a lot of perspective.   IMO, it is simply not possible to accidentally to have the 3 year run that he did.    There has to be coaching ability there. 

[77ncaachamps]

Last year was frustrating for everyone and changed a lot of perspective.   IMO, it is simply not possible to accidentally to have the 3 year run that he did.    There has to be coaching ability there. 

Okay, he's a good coach.

But you'll never know if he's able to get through the hard times and truly define the kind of person/coach he is.

[Lennys Tap]

"You better you better you bet"  -- Pete Townshend

I have to admit it's getting better
A little better all the time
(It couldn't get no worse)

                                   John Lennon

[GGGG]

He did not fly the coop; I believe he was told by the University to find another job.

That's not true.  Now they didn't go out of the way to make him happy, but they never told him to leave.

[MUCam]

But you can't call him a hypocrite and not look at the good deeds he does without some doubt.
Does he REALLY care that much?
Is it ALL contrived? Or just SOME of it contrived?
Does he understand the power of "holding a story back" and then "releasing it to the press" so he appears to be humble?

I hope to the Man above that he isn't jerking people around.

I don't disagree at all with this. His hypocrisy obviously opens up his actions to scrutiny. That said, if you speak with anyone who has received his kindness, they won't call it contrived. I don't think Buzz's acts are all part of a shtick. I think he truly does care and he truly does want to be good.

That said, Buzz is also very smart. He knows how to use his acts of kindness to his benefit and for his image. He is a master of public relations. It was no coincidence that the Buzz's Bunch CBS special came out days before he bolted for Va Tech. Buzz is a master manipulator and a master salesman. That is what makes him such a darned effective recruiter.

The problem with those types of people is that, eventually, they get found out. Eventually, their "holier than thou" walls come crashing down and people begin to suspect their true intentions. When the walls do come crashing down, the sales become tougher to deliver; the manipulation harder to effectuate. And so, Buzz moved on before those walls completely crashed in.

If the stories are correct, as being the head man went to his head, Buzz's actions became less and less those of a humble servant and more and more those of an untouchable despot. Or so he thought in his mind. When 17-14 brought mortality and reality back, he had to scram.

The problem with the truly egotistical is that they generally are the most susceptible to bouts of insecurity. They need and crave the praise and appreciation that fuels their egos. Praise is like a drug and when Buzz was the country bumpkin hero, he was able to shoot it up by the truck loads. Some bad PR issues with players and one bad season and the syringes ran dry. So, it was time to find a different source; somewhere where expectations are zero and praise will flow freely like the PBR flows from my refrigerator and Balvenie flows from my bar. That place is in Blacksburg.

[pbiflyer]

That's not true.  Now they didn't go out of the way to make him happy, but they never told him to leave.

This.

[keefe]

I have to admit it's getting better
A little better all the time
(It couldn't get no worse)

                                   John Lennon

She lies and says she's in love with him, can't find a better man...
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, can't find a better man...
She lies and says she still loves him, can't find a better man...
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, can't find a better man...
Can't find a better man
Can't find a better man
Yeah...

-- Eddie Vedder

[jimmybutlerfanatic]

Seems like all these coaches develop a character or schtick and stick with it. We saw it with Crean and the same schtick carried over to IU. Now we're seeing it with Buzz. Same old phrases. About the only thing he changed is instead of saying, "I don't mean that in a condescending way" to "I don't mean that in a sarcastic way."

Now we have Wojo working on his schtick and most fans are eating it up. These same fans will be heartbroken and angry when he moves on.

These coaches are like actors developing a character. They're not genuine, don't buy into it so much.

[MUHoopsFan2]

Last year was frustrating for everyone and changed a lot of perspective.   IMO, it is simply not possible to accidentally to have the 3 year run that he did.    There has to be coaching ability there.  

He was a good coach...come on now. Period. That cannot be argue or even sensibly debated here no matter how offended, resentful and hurt some MU fans might be by his departure.

No one should question that. But I agree, he could not handled expectations and handle the heat and knew when to get out or maybe he was helped out. We don't know. I believe the latter. he would not run. He had a great class coming in.

There was no reason to run unless MU just wanted a change. Terri Mitchell was escorted out too. A wonderful coach and person. He could motivate and he could get his teams prepared an buy into his vision. Get real.

You don't win here like he did and get that many players to the NBA and not be a good coach. Don't fool yourself.

[MUHoopsFan2]

You know Cam, I agree to an extent with his quirkiness being phoniness, and possibly Buzz being a hypocrite.

If there's one thing that we've seen since UNO and him leapfrogging from place to place is he's always looking ahead.
So, along with it comes the "schtick": say the "right" things, do the "right" things, "throw a good pitch" to the fans, "throw a good pitch" to the administration.

But you can't call him a hypocrite and not look at the good deeds he does without some doubt.
Does he REALLY care that much?
Is it ALL contrived? Or just SOME of it contrived?
Does he understand the power of "holding a story back" and then "releasing it to the press" so he appears to be humble?

I hope to the Man above that he isn't jerking people around.

I disagree wholeheartedly. You all are just angry. I love Buzz Williams as a man and a coach. He was not phony. He was real and he was just him. I think after awhile that can wear on you because he is going to stay true to who he is.

I do not think there was one time where this program was about him. I am not defending anyone because he does not nee to be defended. MU just wanted a change and Buzz did not take pot shots at MU, he just gave you an answer.

If he wanted to leave he could have done so a long time ago. I might believe you if it was just him that left. But when they let the woman's coach go too and played like they wanted Smart I knew it was administration that wanted to move on, not Buzz.

From the moment his top assistant was let go that was the beginning of the end. You are trying to paint him in a bad light and I don't see it. Let him go. We will see if he is a good coach down in Blacksburg.

[MUHoopsFan2]

Has there ever been a better thread than this?

YES.

There has. It is a bitter pill thread. Thank Buzz and move on. He helped build this MU Brand to where it is now. I am not going to knock him.

If I had a kid he recruited here I would trust him with my son or daughter and that is the highest compliment that I can pay anyone.

He better be a great salesman just like Tom Crean was or I am not listening. Ultimately it would be up to my kid but from what I have read an heard and seen from the fruits of his words and works here after what 7 years, he held up well.  

You said he ran "like a coward." LOL wow. Strong words. I do not think he was a coward. He went to the ACC! If anything he is just the opposite of a coward and took as daunting a job and situation then Crean did when he went to Indiana when they were on probation.

Now lets see if Wojo with his great coaching staff and helpers can take it to another level. That simple.    

[77ncaachamps]

I disagree wholeheartedly. You all are just angry. I love Buzz Williams as a man and a coach. He was not phony. He was real and he was just him. I think after awhile that can wear on you because he is going to stay true to who he is.

I do not think there was one time where this program was about him. I am not defending anyone because he does not nee to be defended. MU just wanted a change and Buzz did not take pot shots at MU, he just gave you an answer.

If he wanted to leave he could have done so a long time ago. I might believe you if it was just him that left. But when they let the woman's coach go too and played like they wanted Smart I knew it was administration that wanted to move on, not Buzz.

From the moment his top assistant was let go that was the beginning of the end. You are trying to paint him in a bad light and I don't see it. Let him go. We will see if he is a good coach down in Blacksburg.

I believe that he is a good guy but sometimes doubt creeps into your mind. You know, when you think that you might have been played.

His laughs and expressions appeared genuine. But not that he's not around, it can appear questionable, contrived.

I'm not painting him in a bad light, just trying to "cast light" on his actions while at MU.
Especially how this past year unfolded.

I believe that he knew this was going to be his last year. And the losing...the complaints...the negativity were too much for him to deal with. It's how one deals with that type of adversity that defines who you are as a coach. However, the business side of it - not harming his career - seemed to speak louder to him, I think.


Re: Wojo's schtick. Everyone has one...but he's been at a Blue Blood program and knows what can be sold and what can't. Moreover, cutting the BS and crap will be easier for him since he's been associated with successful programs.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I have to admit it's getting better
A little better all the time
(It couldn't get no worse)

                                   John Lennon

Getting Betta, Betta all the time

 Pat Travers

[willie warrior]

That's not true.  Now they didn't go out of the way to make him happy, but they never told him to leave.

And you know this , how? Were you there? There are many ways to show one the door without saying you are fired. It happens often. But Sultan know all, and is Buzz's life time butt boy.

[willie warrior]

"You better you better you bet"  -- Pete Townshend

Know when to hold them and know when to fold them--Kenny Rogers.

[Lennys Tap]

She lies and says she's in love with him, can't find a better man...
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, can't find a better man...
She lies and says she still loves him, can't find a better man...
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, can't find a better man...
Can't find a better man
Can't find a better man
Yeah...

-- Eddie Vedder

I ain't sayin' you treated me unkind
You coulda' done better, but, I don't mind
You just kinda' wasted my precious time
But don't think twice, it's alright....

-- Bob Dylan

[4everwarriors]

We can't go on together with suspicious minds--Elvis

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Seems like all these coaches develop a character or schtick and stick with it. We saw it with Crean and the same schtick carried over to IU. Now we're seeing it with Buzz. Same old phrases. About the only thing he changed is instead of saying, "I don't mean that in a condescending way" to "I don't mean that in a sarcastic way."

Now we have Wojo working on his schtick and most fans are eating it up. These same fans will be heartbroken and angry when he moves on.

These coaches are like actors developing a character. They're not genuine, don't buy into it so much.

This.

We can like our coach. We can like how the team performs. We can even "buy in" (hooray, cliches!)

But, let's remember the things we see and hear aren't always "real". They are part of a coaching "character" that these guys have to develop.

It's not unlike a school teacher. A teacher can't be "real" with his students. There is a certain conduct and level of professionalism expected from a teacher. A teacher or coach cannot treat his/her students the same way they would treat their own kids. They have to always "act" like a teacher.

[tower912]

"You better you better you bet"  -- Pete Townshend

from that song..."knowing I'm so eager to fight can't make letting me in any easier"...may apply more to this board.   

[keefe]

 She said, "man, there's really something wrong with you.
 One day you're gonna' self-destruct.
 You're up, you're down, I can't work you out
 You get a good thing goin' then you blow yourself out."

 Silly boy ya' self-destroyer. Silly boy ya' self-destroyer

 Silly boy you got so much to live for
 So much to aim for, so much to try for
 You blowing it all with paranoia
 You're so insecure you self-destroyer

 Paranoia, the destroyer
 Paranoia, the destroyer


-- Ray Davies