Per Mark Miller... Matt Heldt just committed to MU

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Happy to take a wager if you like?  I don't necessarily disagree with your above point either.  My premise is that when you combine great explosion/athleticism with a body weight well above what is typical with that type of athleticism...it's a lethal mix.  Barkley is a great example of this.  There just aren't many 6'4/6'5" guys who weight 245-250 in this world that athletically have what Burton has..and Barkley had in his prime.

Weight is a huge value.  You can look at Sullinger, DeJuan Blair, Glen Davis - none of those guys are very athletic for their position (at all), yet they have alot of value in the league...due to their mass/physicality.  They aren't prototype for their position in any way, shape or form.

Serious question for you Guns/Others who are skeptical of Deonte's ability to translate at next level (and you guys may be right)...but....have you ever balled against a guy who was 30 lbs heavier than you, just as athletic if not more than you...but you had 3" of height on him?  If so, how did that go?  Did you dominate him?  Was it a wash?  Or did he dominate you?  In my experience...I rarely ever dominated a guy like that...almost always was a wash...or he dominated me...

#1 I really like Deonte, so I don't want to make a wager against him and then root for him to fail post college. If he makes it, you can call me an idiot forever. That's fine.

#2 My view on Deonte's NBA chances aren't really based upon Deonte specifically, but rather the make up of the league. I think the kid is a tremendous athlete, but the odds just aren't in his favor. I'm not comfortable with the Barkley comparison because Barkley was one of the greatest NBA players of all time, and there is nobody else like him. Ever.

#3 My personal playing experience doesn't really shape my view on a guy's NBA chances. I've played against some good players (of all sizes), but I've never played against guys who ever sniffed the NBA. Therefore, my personal experiences aren't really applicable in my evaluation.

And for the record, I don't think this topic needs to be polarized. Nobody has said he can't make the league. But, several people (including me) have said that it's going to be tough given his physical attributes and skill set. That's it. It's a longshot.
 

[NersEllenson]

If they had an inside/outside game, it was difficult.  Because you can just give up space.

And that is what I said before.  Deonte is going to need a better outside shot for his game to be effective.  Without that its a stretch.

Agree Deonte's perimeter shot will need to improve...to make league..but think he will be good enough to be a triple threat...perimeter/penetrator/poster

What amazes me is that some people think Deonte will be able to step right into the SG position in the NBA after never having played it before. And he will do this against guys who have been at the position for years who are among the best in the world.

Barkley and Aguirre were among other undersized guys who didn't make that transition, but they were uniquely talented players worlds better than Burton.

Personally - I don't see Deonte playing the 2 in the NBA - see him being a guy just like Barkely...and you reference another good comparison - Aguirre. 

Think it actually would be more important for Deonte to work on his back to the basket moves/post ups...than his perimeter jumper...Aguirre and Barkley made a living down on the block..but could also hit the perimeter jumper with a good percentage.

[bilsu]

I do not know if he will he make the NBA. However, I do believe he needs to stay on college four years to have the best chance to make it, which is what Blue should of done.

[MU82]

I agree with your premise, but disagree about putting Butch on the list.  He was a first round draft pick who played 82 games as a rookie and averaged nearly 10 ppg. He blew out his knee three games into his second season and never recovered.  He clearly had what it took to succeed in the NBA, but an unfortunate injury ended his career.  I'd call that a bit more than a cup of coffee.  To me, a cup of coffee is a guy like Lazar...who makes a roster for a while, but never makes a significant contribution or shows the potential for a long career.

Fair enough, though Lee wasn't all that great as a rookie, was traded in the offseason and was averaging only 2 ppg in the three games he played before the knee injury. I still see your point, though.

[MU82]

I LOVE Deonte, but I think you're underestimating the athleticism in the NBA. It's REALLLLY tough to make the league, and it's even tougher if you don't fit the prototypical body type/position.

It's certainly not impossible, but it's RARE.

Great point, and we fans get so excited about the possibilities of our favorite players that we have tunnel vision. We know our guy is so good, he'd have to be able to make it. But we don't consider the competition, both those in the league and those wanting to get there.

I used to spend a lot of time around Champaign when the Illini had their big run in "mid-aughts." Their fans were certain Dee Brown would make it because he was reasonably talented and, mostly, amazingly fast. I used to tell him that he wasn't talented at all by NBA standards and that he wasn't even all that fast by NBA standards -- there were 6-foot-8, 240-pounders every bit as fast as he was. The fans called me a dope.

Dee played 68 games over 2 seasons and hasn't been heard from since.

I don't blame the fans. They were just being fans. Their guy was an amazingly fast "freak."

You know what? The NBA is filled with freaks!

[willie warrior]

I love Deonte--he is a beast. But we are getting way ahead speculating on how good he will be in the NBA. Let's enjoy what he does for MU for a few more years and see how he develops. Putting him in the NBA already is a bit premature. I remember somebody said Otule was the 2nd coming of Hibbert, so lets not get into that type of hype for Deonte yet. Just hope he does not hit the dreaded sophomore "wall"

[tower912]

Great point, and we fans get so excited about the possibilities of our favorite players that we have tunnel vision. We know our guy is so good, he'd have to be able to make it. But we don't consider the competition, both those in the league and those wanting to get there.

I used to spend a lot of time around Champaign when the Illini had their big run in "mid-aughts." Their fans were certain Dee Brown would make it because he was reasonably talented and, mostly, amazingly fast. I used to tell him that he wasn't talented at all by NBA standards and that he wasn't even all that fast by NBA standards -- there were 6-foot-8, 240-pounders every bit as fast as he was. The fans called me a dope.

Dee played 68 games over 2 seasons and hasn't been heard from since.

I don't blame the fans. They were just being fans. Their guy was an amazingly fast "freak."


You know what? The NBA is filled with freaks!

Yep.   I think he will be stud at MU.   He is a freak.   Realistically, I'm not sure that tranfers to the league.   

[NersEllenson]

In other news...Matt Heldt committed to MU!  Back on topic.  Glad to have Matt aboard at MU...but hard to discuss a whole lot about him as we've yet to see him play a game in an MU jersey.  Burton is a fascinating case/debate.

[We R Final Four]

There is always the hot topic of military chicks with guns to discuss to keep things off thread.

[VegasWarrior77]

Mark Miller @WisBBYearbook  ·  3h (Sunday 7/27/14)
Matt Heldt of Neenah is underrated nationally. With the Spartans winning the Fab 48, it will be interesting to see if his stock rises.

Bill Maus ‏@bmaus1090  2h
@WisBBYearbook In your opinion, what should he be ranked?
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Mark Miller ‏@WisBBYearbook  2h
@bmaus1090 Top 100 for sure.

[Jay Bee]

Matt and his team lost a rough game Friday night. Had control the whole way through until it was tied with a few seconds left. Game was extended and they lost. Good first half by Matt... and Wojo, Carrawell and Phelps were there for the entire game.

That was the last game of pool play.. 3rd of 4th place in their pool for the Spartans. Then things clicked.. got a couple of close wins, including a triple OT quarterfinal win.. 5 in a row yesterday and today to win the 17U Diamond division.. non-Midwest guys watching Matt this week were mostly of the opinion that, "wow, this kid is really pretty good.. "

I'd bet on Scout having him in their top 100. Personally, I really like Matt. Just keep getting a little bit better every week and he'll be in good shape.

[Texas Western]

Matt and his team lost a rough game Friday night. Had control the whole way through until it was tied with a few seconds left. Game was extended and they lost. Good first half by Matt... and Wojo, Carrawell and Phelps were there for the entire game.

That was the last game of pool play.. 3rd of 4th place in their pool for the Spartans. Then things clicked.. got a couple of close wins, including a triple OT quarterfinal win.. 5 in a row yesterday and today to win the 17U Diamond division.. non-Midwest guys watching Matt this week were mostly of the opinion that, "wow, this kid is really pretty good.. "

I'd bet on Scout having him in their top 100. Personally, I really like Matt. Just keep getting a little bit better every week and he'll be in good shape.

I think Matt and MU both made a good decision here. He can focus on getting better and I think we got a Diamond in the rough.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think Matt and MU both made a good decision here. He can focus on getting better and I think we got a Diamond in the rough.

Maybe we finally got one of those top ranked centers whose stock dramatically increase late in the recruiting season to commit before they jumped in the rankings. (Embiid/Turner reference)

[MuMark]

Evan Daniels of Scout said "There won't be another ranking release without him in it"

He was very impressed

[real chili 83]

Matt and his team lost a rough game Friday night. Had control the whole way through until it was tied with a few seconds left. Game was extended and they lost. Good first half by Matt... and Wojo, Carrawell and Phelps were there for the entire game.

That was the last game of pool play.. 3rd of 4th place in their pool for the Spartans. Then things clicked.. got a couple of close wins, including a triple OT quarterfinal win.. 5 in a row yesterday and today to win the 17U Diamond division.. non-Midwest guys watching Matt this week were mostly of the opinion that, "wow, this kid is really pretty good.. "

I'd bet on Scout having him in their top 100. Personally, I really like Matt. Just keep getting a little bit better every week and he'll be in good shape.

For what it's worth, he's supposed to be a good kid too.  My niece knows him...Same HS.

[4everwarriors]

Maybe she could, er, act as a hostess and encourage him to attend MU, hey?

[real chili 83]

Not a chance.  Family is full of Badger fans.  I put up with them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Maybe she could, er, act as a hostess and encourage him to attend MU, hey?

Were you attempting to pimp out another scooper's niece?

[4everwarriors]

If it helps get another big man, what's the harm?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

If it helps get another big man, what's the harm?

Famous last words.

[BM1090]

Evan Daniels of Scout said "There won't be another ranking release without him in it"

He was very impressed

So if we get Cheatham and Ellenson, which is still a big if, then we are looking at  potentially 4 top 100 guys in Wojo's first class

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Maybe Wojo will be the opposite of Brent and find kids who improve on their ranking instead of regress  By the way talked to some of the players last night, Brent is every bit of crazy as people have imagined him to be.

[Black Swan]

Evan Daniels of Scout said "There won't be another ranking release without him in it"

He was very impressed

Not sure if I posted this here or not but I said when he committed that there were not 100 better high school players in the country than Matt. I would be shocked if he isn't ranked after the next round comes out. This doesn't mean I expect him to come in and be a force from day one but he is an extremely skilled Big that should have a nice future.

[GOO]

Maybe Wojo will be the opposite of Brent and find kids who improve on their ranking instead of regress  By the way talked to some of the players last night, Brent is every bit of crazy as people have imagined him to be.

So true.  Too often we were not getting the players on the rise. 

[GGGG]

Maybe Wojo will be the opposite of Brent and find kids who improve on their ranking instead of regress  By the way talked to some of the players last night, Brent is every bit of crazy as people have imagined him to be.

This is just selective memory.  We had a couple players who under performed (Erik Williams, Jamail Jones), a couple that performed as expected (Blue, Cadougan), and a bunch that performed better than we thought they would (Gardner, Jae, DJO, Butler).