New Stadium Imminent?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Unless you can put Milwaukee under a glass dome, I think the weather is always going to make that difficult.  It's certainly a great think to strive for, to become the next Hollywood, or Silicon Valley, or Research Triangle, but it seems to me that usually those areas have either geography and\or climate that helps draw in the talent pool to make it happen in the first place, or a by product of.

Maybe something in freshwater sciences???

You're right, if it were that easy, everybody would be doing it, so I know it's not that easy.

BUT, I'd just like to see some forethought put into how we invest our tax dollars into "growth". Opening more restaurants and filling some more hotels rooms isn't exactly 300million dollars worth of "growth".

Milwaukee isn't ever going to grab Google and move them to Milwaukee.

But, could they grow their own Google?

Could you become the AAA market for Silicon Valley? (I'm talking in broad terms, not specifically silicon valley)

[swoopem]

If Detroit can figure out a way to build the new Red Wings stadium (coming in 2016) I'm pretty confident that Milwaukee will get it worked out. The Wings stadium is going to be a 400 million dollar building with Ilitch paying for half of it. We're talking about a pretty similar situation here as far as private vs public funding.

[warriorchick]

I nominate this for non-basketball post of the year.

Is Keefe taking a nap or something?  I would have expected at least a half-dozen pictures by now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If Detroit can figure out a way to build the new Red Wings stadium (coming in 2016) I'm pretty confident that Milwaukee will get it worked out. The Wings stadium is going to be a 400 million dollar building with Ilitch paying for half of it. We're talking about a pretty similar situation here as far as private vs public funding.

Mark down this might be the first time in history someone used Detroit as an example related to urban development.      Helps, again, that the Wings are good and have been for many many years.  People actually care about the Wings, there is also this insatiable desire to keep throwing money at Detroit as often as possible so the politicians can say they are doing something.

[swoopem]

Mark down this might be the first time in history someone used Detroit as an example related to urban development.      Helps, again, that the Wings are good and have been for many many years.  People actually care about the Wings, there is also this insatiable desire to keep throwing money at Detroit as often as possible so the politicians can say they are doing something.

Well get used to it because urban farming is about to blow up. Detroit is rising from the ashes (litterally)

[hairy worthen]

Maybe something in freshwater sciences???

You're right, if it were that easy, everybody would be doing it, so I know it's not that easy.

BUT, I'd just like to see some forethought put into how we invest our tax dollars into "growth". Opening more restaurants and filling some more hotels rooms isn't exactly 300million dollars worth of "growth".

Milwaukee isn't ever going to grab Google and move them to Milwaukee.

But, could they grow their own Google?

Could you become the AAA market for Silicon Valley? (I'm talking in broad terms, not specifically silicon valley)

You should run for mayor. You have already done more work on a message board than our current mayor has done in his whole tenure.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You should run for mayor. You have already done more work on a message board than our current mayor has done in his whole tenure.

I'm talking out my ass.

I honestly have no idea on any of this crap, and I freely admit that.

I'm just not sure a $300million dollar gift to the Bucks does as much good as it can/should.

If they show me that it will work and helps everybody out in the long run, then so be it. Here's my $10 and hand me a shovel.

[hairy worthen]

I'm talking out my ass.

I honestly have no idea on any of this crap, and I freely admit that.

I'm just not sure a $300million dollar gift to the Bucks does as much good as it can/should.

If they show me that it will work and helps everybody out in the long run, then so be it. Here's my $10 and hand me a shovel.

Most great ideas start with someone talking out of their ass.

I think you will see justification for it moving forward. Marotta has already laid some of that groundwork with his comments about the high maintenance costs of the BC and other comments.

[GOO]

I'm talking out my ass.

I honestly have no idea on any of this crap, and I freely admit that.

I'm just not sure a $300million dollar gift to the Bucks does as much good as it can/should.

If they show me that it will work and helps everybody out in the long run, then so be it. Here's my $10 and hand me a shovel.

Does 150M change your mind at all instead of using the 300M number.  It will be less than 300M, just with naming rights.  Will the empirical evidence support a taxpayer ROI at 150.... I don't know that it will, but even without that proof/evidence, it is enough to change my mind on the subject.

[Aughnanure]

You're right.

But, if we are talking about opportunity costs, if we are talking about quality of life, if we are talking about future economic impact, let's really talk about it.

I know "joe-6pack" who listens to 1250WSSP isn't going to understand investing in emerging technologies and incubation programs... but surely some of the smart guys on this board understand.

We aren't some yokel voters, and we aren't politicians pimping for votes.

Silicone Valley! I stand by my statement. In fact, I rub my face all over this statement.

No the main problem is the rich brogrammers and connected investors who will invest in this (and amazingly overvalue it out of reality) have no interest in living in Milwaukee. They generally come from the coasts, went to school on the coasts, have their business (mommy/daddy) connections on the coast.

Chicago could try, but Milwaukee? It would just look pathetic. You're competing with a lot of cities for something that there isn't that big of a piece of pie for. Startups don't employ that much and generally don't share their returns with the city they inhabit nor it's inhabitants. Notice how San Fran absolutely LOOOOOOVVEEESSSS Google right now  

[Aughnanure]

Maybe something in freshwater sciences???

You're right, if it were that easy, everybody would be doing it, so I know it's not that easy.

BUT, I'd just like to see some forethought put into how we invest our tax dollars into "growth". Opening more restaurants and filling some more hotels rooms isn't exactly 300million dollars worth of "growth".

Milwaukee isn't ever going to grab Google and move them to Milwaukee.

But, could they grow their own Google?

Could you become the AAA market for Silicon Valley? (I'm talking in broad terms, not specifically silicon valley)

Some type of entertainment district expansion (Like KC's P&L but sooo much less douchey). Public transportation expansion. More walkable living areas to encourage more people to live downtown. I'm all for that. A city that stops investing in itself is a city that gets left behind. Sorry If I was harsh earlier, I was focusing on your desire to create/be the next Silicon Valley or whatever.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Does 150M change your mind at all instead of using the 300M number.  It will be less than 300M, just with naming rights.  Will the empirical evidence support a taxpayer ROI at 150.... I don't know that it will, but even without that proof/evidence, it is enough to change my mind on the subject.

Ya, I mean, 150m is certainly easier to swallow.

I'd have to see what the long term vision is.

Right now, all I know is that the Bucks want to make more money, or else they will leave. That's it.

I'd like to see what the overall vision is for the entire plan, and what the other options are.

[GOO]

Ya, I mean, 150m is certainly easier to swallow.

I'd have to see what the long term vision is.

Right now, all I know is that the Bucks want to make more money, or else they will leave. That's it.

I'd like to see what the overall vision is for the entire plan, and what the other options are.

Understandable.  It will be interesting to see the plan.  My assumption is that it won't be a complete white elephant and will be near the BC, and feature venues accessible to the street. 

I think if the public number is less than 200M, it sounds a lot better as it should.  For me, if 250M or more likely 300M is from investors and naming rights, it is kind of hard to turn down putting less than 200M into it (even without knowing if there is any positive ROI).  If it is 300M plus, no way does this get done nor should it.

 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Some type of entertainment district expansion (Like KC's P&L but sooo much less douchey). Public transportation expansion. More walkable living areas to encourage more people to live downtown. I'm all for that. A city that stops investing in itself is a city that gets left behind. Sorry If I was harsh earlier, I was focusing on your desire to create/be the next Silicon Valley or whatever.

It's fine. I'm not necessarily into being the next silicon valley either. It could be production, or science, or automobiles, or helicopters. Whatever. Just something more forward thinking that "build an arena and some more bars!".

The problem with an entertainment district subsidized by taxpayers is really a zero-sum game. You're just taking entertainment dollars from other parts of the city and the state and giving them to the Bucks, or whatever goes next to the arena. Boom. Growth!... but it's not.

Now, you'll pick up some out-of-state visitors as well, which is good, but I don't know if the Bucks or a new entertainment district would attract enough out of towners that we (the taxpayers) need to subsidize it.

I've been to KC. It's cool. I'm not planning on going back. I hope they enjoyed the $200 I spent on hotel/food/beer. I had a blast, but it's not compelling enough for me to make a several visits and/or spend a bunch of money. It's cool for locals, but again, that's just moving money around, not really creating it.

I'm not sure that tax-payer subsidized entertainment district is the way to really help Milwaukee in the long run.

Oh, and as an example, the 3rd Ward in Milwaukee has experienced tremendous growth in the past 15-20 years. Certainly Milwaukee has subsidized some of that with some capital improvements and basic infrastructure (streets, sidewalks, etc.), but for the most part, that's a private, organic, rebirth of a neighborhood. They didn't need 200-300 million to get that going.

[Aughnanure]

I've been to KC. It's cool. I'm not planning on going back. I hope they enjoyed the $200 I spent on hotel/food/beer. I had a blast, but it's not compelling enough for me to make a several visits and/or spend a bunch of money. It's cool for locals, but again, that's just moving money around, not really creating it.

I'm not sure that tax-payer subsidized entertainment district is the way to really help Milwaukee in the long run.

Oh, and as an example, the 3rd Ward in Milwaukee has experienced tremendous growth in the past 15-20 years. Certainly Milwaukee has subsidized some of that with some capital improvements and basic infrastructure (streets, sidewalks, etc.), but for the most part, that's a private, organic, rebirth of a neighborhood. They didn't need 200-300 million to get that going.

First off, why does it have to be out of state? The goal is to get people to open their wallet, which subsequently creates jobs for whatever is taking their money and so on and so on. This is how areas in DC have drastically transformed the past 15 years. I think the main goal should be to bring more people to live downtown so people are more invested int he area. Younger generations want to work closer to where they live, so it would bring jobs back downtown, which would bring lunch places downtown, which would bring bars and restaurants downtown, which would make it attractive for businesses to move downtown.

Sure manufacturing and production are different, but bringing a larger educated and skilled workforce to the middle of your city makes your city that much more compelling to future growth and new businesses.

Also, and it blows my freaking mind, but I can't tell you how many people from Iowa and Omaha I've meant that come down to P&L for a weekend (and apparently have done it multiple times!). I believe the Sprint Center is one of the most active arenas in the world (like Top 5 no joke) and because they have no permanent tenant they can guarantee any date for shows and tours making it easy for them to have something there nearly every night. But still, I. Don't. Get. It. Go to the Plaza, or Crossroads, or Westport, or Brookside, or Waldo, but P&L?....

[humanlung]

It's fine. I'm not necessarily into being the next silicon valley either. It could be production, or science, or automobiles, or helicopters. Whatever. Just something more forward thinking that "build an arena and some more bars!".

The problem with an entertainment district subsidized by taxpayers is really a zero-sum game. You're just taking entertainment dollars from other parts of the city and the state and giving them to the Bucks, or whatever goes next to the arena. Boom. Growth!... but it's not.

Now, you'll pick up some out-of-state visitors as well, which is good, but I don't know if the Bucks or a new entertainment district would attract enough out of towners that we (the taxpayers) need to subsidize it.

I've been to KC. It's cool. I'm not planning on going back. I hope they enjoyed the $200 I spent on hotel/food/beer. I had a blast, but it's not compelling enough for me to make a several visits and/or spend a bunch of money. It's cool for locals, but again, that's just moving money around, not really creating it.

I'm not sure that tax-payer subsidized entertainment district is the way to really help Milwaukee in the long run.

Oh, and as an example, the 3rd Ward in Milwaukee has experienced tremendous growth in the past 15-20 years. Certainly Milwaukee has subsidized some of that with some capital improvements and basic infrastructure (streets, sidewalks, etc.), but for the most part, that's a private, organic, rebirth of a neighborhood. They didn't need 200-300 million to get that going.

Guns, it's been a long time but I think that there was a massive effort in the 1980s to get the Third Ward redeveloped.  Back then, you could buy the entire building for the cost of a condo today.  I might be wrong on this but there was a lot of support in terms of tax breaks and fast-track redevelopment stuff to get the ball rolling there.  The last 15-20 years happened because Milwaukee stepped up 30 years ago.

[Cooby Snacks]

Also, and it blows my freaking mind, but I can't tell you how many people from Iowa and Omaha I've meant that come down to P&L for a weekend (and apparently have done it multiple times!). I believe the Sprint Center is one of the most active arenas in the world (like Top 5 no joke) and because they have no permanent tenant they can guarantee any date for shows and tours making it easy for them to have something there nearly every night. But still, I. Don't. Get. It. Go to the Plaza, or Crossroads, or Westport, or Brookside, or Waldo, but P&L?....

Or even just camp out in front of Oklahoma Joe's.

[MUEng92]

What does the mayor of Milwaukee think about this situation?

No... you see, around here we use the teal colored font for sarcasm.  Still, even without it that is pretty funny.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

First off, why does it have to be out of state? The goal is to get people to open their wallet, which subsequently creates jobs for whatever is taking their money and so on and so on. This is how areas in DC have drastically transformed the past 15 years. I think the main goal should be to bring more people to live downtown so people are more invested int he area. Younger generations want to work closer to where they live, so it would bring jobs back downtown, which would bring lunch places downtown, which would bring bars and restaurants downtown, which would make it attractive for businesses to move downtown.

I'm in complete agreement with you, but I guess I just like approaching it from the opposite end.

Get a bunch of well educated, well paid people living and working around Milwaukee, and the entertainment stuff will develop itself.

I'm not sure building an arena is the way to get higher paid people living and working in Milwaukee.

As far as out-of-state, I'm just using that to illustrate "growth" vs "redistribution". I'm not sure that a publicly financed stadium creates growth, but rather just redistributes our entertainment dollars.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns, it's been a long time but I think that there was a massive effort in the 1980s to get the Third Ward redeveloped.  Back then, you could buy the entire building for the cost of a condo today.  I might be wrong on this but there was a lot of support in terms of tax breaks and fast-track redevelopment stuff to get the ball rolling there.  The last 15-20 years happened because Milwaukee stepped up 30 years ago.

Good to know. I'd like to see how much $ was really involved. It obviously looks like a wise investment now.

When I came to MU in the late 90's, the 3rd ward was ok, but nothing compared to what it is now.

[Litehouse]

Now, you'll pick up some out-of-state visitors as well, which is good, but I don't know if the Bucks or a new entertainment district would attract enough out of towners that we (the taxpayers) need to subsidize it.

But you don't necessarily need to get them from out of state.  Get visitors from Mequon, Brookfield, Waukesha, Madison, Sheboygan, Racine etc.  If they spend their entertainment dollars downtown instead of elsewhere, it's good for Milwaukee.

[ThatDude]

No... you see, around here we use the teal colored font for sarcasm.  Still, even without it that is pretty funny.

Im not being sarcastic. I dont live in milwaukee so I wouldnt know

I do know that the mayor of Sacramento(Kevin Johnson) was instrumental in keeping the Kings in town.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Guns, it's been a long time but I think that there was a massive effort in the 1980s to get the Third Ward redeveloped.  Back then, you could buy the entire building for the cost of a condo today.  I might be wrong on this but there was a lot of support in terms of tax breaks and fast-track redevelopment stuff to get the ball rolling there.  The last 15-20 years happened because Milwaukee stepped up 30 years ago.

My question is what does Milwaukee get out of it?  Adding a bunch of bars, restaurants usually means low wage, service related jobs, low paying, low tax income.  That doesn't mean you don't do it, but often it isn't the gangbuster payoff that people are sold on.  They hear things like "hundreds of jobs"...sounds great....what kind of jobs?  Are 85% of them waiters, waitresses, cooks, bartenders, bus boys, etc? 

To me, this is where the ROI comes into play.  Qty is great, but what are the details.

[MUEng92]

Sorry.  I took a chance that you were from the area.

The mayor of Milwaukee is an invisible man.  He doesn't even offer opinions on things related to Milwaukee much less offer leadership on said topics. I honestly have no idea what he does that he would consider fulfilling his mayoral duties.

[MUSF]

If Detroit can figure out a way to build the new Red Wings stadium (coming in 2016) I'm pretty confident that Milwaukee will get it worked out. The Wings stadium is going to be a 400 million dollar building with Ilitch paying for half of it. We're talking about a pretty similar situation here as far as private vs public funding.

Again, this is a poor comparison. I know Detroit is struggling, but it is still a much bigger market than Milwaukee and the support for the Wings is through the roof. There will always be money available for pro sports in Detroit.

My dad used to joke that 10,000 people would show up to watch two guys play checkers in Michigan if one of the players had Detroit on his shirt. That's why the Lions can continue to suck and still have no financial issues, blackouts, etc..