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Author Topic: Denying A Transfer  (Read 8457 times)

Tugg Speedman

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Denying A Transfer
« on: April 19, 2014, 06:42:27 AM »
In the last few weeks the question came up if anyone denies a transfer after a coaching change.  Here is an example of one in the last two days.

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/18/4968431/kansas-state-committee-denies.html

Dawson Rental

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 06:37:20 PM »
In the last few weeks the question came up if anyone denies a transfer after a coaching change.  Here is an example of one in the last two days.

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/18/4968431/kansas-state-committee-denies.html

So, I guess that the answer is yes, if they think that they can get away with it.  And in men's Division I, you can't get away with it because the publicity will kill your recruiting.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 06:41:23 PM »
So, I guess that the answer is yes, if they think that they can get away with it.  And in men's Division I, you can't get away with it because the publicity will kill your recruiting.

St. Joe's did a few years back.  They were in the NCAAs this year, lost to UConn in OT in the first game.

keefe

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 07:22:21 PM »
Finally. A University with some fiber! Perhaps Broeker should stand up and take notice of K - State - an Athletic Department with stones.

All Broeker has to do is call up Hill and Shayok and say, "NO!"

No call needed to Satchel Paige, however.


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Jay Bee

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 07:38:20 PM »
St. Joe's did a few years back.  They were in the NCAAs this year, lost to UConn in OT in the first game.

No problems with what St. Joe's decided. O'Brien tried to pull one over on them. MU has seen something similar in the fairly recent past.

Important to note, however, that schools don't "deny a transfer." These kids can still transfer.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

keefe

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 07:39:37 PM »
MU has seen something similar in the fairly recent past.


What happened, JB?


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Jay Bee

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 07:46:21 PM »
What happened, JB?

A player stayed all summer, benefiting from doing so, while repeatedly telling people he was staying with the program... then, very late in the game, bailed.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

keefe

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 07:48:50 PM »
A player stayed all summer, benefiting from doing so, while repeatedly telling people he was staying with the program... then, very late in the game, bailed.

Not someone from da Cities der, hey?


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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 07:48:58 PM »
No problems with what St. Joe's decided. O'Brien tried to pull one over on them. MU has seen something similar in the fairly recent past.

Important to note, however, that schools don't "deny a transfer." These kids can still transfer.

You are correct, they just cannot receive financial aid from their new school if they aren't granted the transfer from the current school...they have to wait a year.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 03:03:13 PM »
No problems with what St. Joe's decided. O'Brien tried to pull one over on them. MU has seen something similar in the fairly recent past.

Important to note, however, that schools don't "deny a transfer." These kids can still transfer.

So, was Chicos' counter to my point that refusing a release is a recruiting handicap by bringing up the O'Brien situation at St. Joe's, really valid, or was O'Brien/St. Joe's an unusual situation that St. Joe's could explain if other schools tried to use it in negative recruiting?
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

HouWarrior

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 06:01:22 PM »
http://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/Two-Cougars-request-to-transfer-5393874.php

Here is a current mens BB example.... a top 30 mens BB recruit (House), and the UH team scoring leader(Thomas), both who have had their transfer requests denied by UH, on the Coach Dickey departure, which requests were made (during the vacancy gap) before Sampson was hired as the new UH coach.
House(as well as Thomas) is appealing his transfer request denial, as the school has an independent process in place. This was UH's biggest recruiting get in years, and they aren't going to let him (or Thomas) go w/o a little resistance.

UPDATE: I missed the April 19 news of UH's very restrictive transfer compromise proposal(see link) ...which the players may still not accept because it kicks them out of D1 in Texas:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2014/4/19/5630854/tashawn-thomas-danuel-house-houston-transfer
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 06:11:58 PM by houwarrior »
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Jay Bee

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 06:34:01 PM »
So, was Chicos' counter to my point that refusing a release is a recruiting handicap by bringing up the O'Brien situation at St. Joe's, really valid, or was O'Brien/St. Joe's an unusual situation that St. Joe's could explain if other schools tried to use it in negative recruiting?

St. Joe's was an unusual situation... and even though I don't find them to be "in the wrong" at all, many still did sting them and they took a PR hit. The traditional media didn't help as they gave O'Brien a platform to whine from the first-person.

Refusing a release is a recruiting handicap. It can hurt you with other recruits, even though all you've done as a school was in line with the rules and regulations. NLI's, like coaching contracts, are made to be "broken". It is quite normal.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

keefe

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 06:53:56 PM »
It is quite normal unfortunate and yet another sign that Rome is burning.


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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 07:58:04 PM »
So, was Chicos' counter to my point that refusing a release is a recruiting handicap by bringing up the O'Brien situation at St. Joe's, really valid, or was O'Brien/St. Joe's an unusual situation that St. Joe's could explain if other schools tried to use it in negative recruiting?

It can hurt, I agree with you.  My example, even if it was unusual, was to show it can be done.  Wisconsin took a PR hit for delaying a transfer and playing games, hasn't hurt them one bit.  Sometimes I wish a program would take a stronger stand.  The media is ALWAYS going to be on the kids side, and that's part of the issue.  Bunch of libs and big university is always wrong, never the kid. 

mu-rara

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 08:01:25 PM »
It can hurt, I agree with you.  My example, even if it was unusual, was to show it can be done.  Wisconsin took a PR hit for delaying a transfer and playing games, hasn't hurt them one bit.  Sometimes I wish a program would take a stronger stand.  The media is ALWAYS going to be on the kids side, and that's part of the issue.  Bunch of libs and big university is always wrong, never the kid. 
Kinda funny.  This would be the only time BIG Media would be against the BIG University.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 08:04:57 PM »
Kinda funny.  This would be the only time BIG Media would be against the BIG University.

That's because it doesn't involve some tenured professor or someone else trying to socially engineer something.  In this case, those evil coaches making all this money just aren't being fair...damnit! 

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2014, 08:12:09 PM »
College hoops free agency? Transfer numbers are up

http://wcfcourier.com/sports/basketball/college-hoops-free-agency-transfer-numbers-are-up/article_fbc99e42-d6bb-5e29-b078-725591ee414f.html

One of the more remarkable aspects of Connecticut's national title run was that potential star Rodney Purvis could only watch his Huskies' teammates because of NCAA rules forcing transfers to sit out a year.

"He's like a Ferrari sitting in the garage that I can't drive," UConn coach Kevin Ollie said.

Ollie isn't the only coach watching their rosters fill up with players who have already made at least one stop at another college.

A recent surge in transfers has turned the once-sleepy late signing period, which this year started Wednesday and runs through May 21, into a monthlong frenzy that has changed college basketball. According to STATS, the number of players who have appeared in a game for more than one Division I school has nearly tripled over the past decade, from 122 in 2004-05 to 325 — or one for nearly every school in the country — in 2013-14.

"It used to be that there was a stigma of some type attached to schools that recruited outside of the high school ranks," San Diego State coach Steve Fisher said. "You were not considered able to compete with the blue bloods. Well, now the blue bloods recruit transfers, They take one-and-dones. They take guys who have graduated and have one year left."

The result is that the college hoops transfer market has exploded. For recent grads looking for one last shot at the Final Four, disgruntled players looking for more minutes and junior college stars hoping to land a high-major scholarship, the late signing period offers hope — for players and their new schools.

Research by the NCAA shows that the number of transfers from two-year/junior college schools into Division I has remained steady over the last 10 years or so, hovering between roughly 15 percent and 17 percent of all Division I players.

The real movement, though, is within Division I.


According to STATS, the number of transfers from one Division I school to another jumped from 259 to 325 from 2012-13 to 2013-14 alone. That number could go much higher once this year's transfers are tallied.

"A lot of times kids aren't transferring or leaving because of the environment they're in," Florida coach Billy Donovan said. "It generally comes down to one thing, and a lot of times it's playing time. Kids now want that instantaneous success."

Negative connotations once associated with transfers have faded, and the use of the graduate transfer rule made popular by Super-Bowl winning quarterback Russell Wilson is growing. Wilson left North Carolina State and led Wisconsin to the Rose Bowl as a "one-and-done" senior.

The rule allows immediate participation to players who have graduated with a year of eligibility left, had yet to use a transfer and had their scholarship or aid run out at their original school. Those who don't meet all the criteria can apply for a waiver.

Though grad transfers still represent a small portion of the transfer market, Iowa State's DeAndre Kane highlighted the trend this season in basketball by leading the Cyclones to their first Sweet 16 in 14 years.

"I just wanted to go somewhere where I can start over fresh," said Kane, a transfer from Marshall. "I (had) one year of basketball left. Marshall and I, we did great things there. But we didn't win a lot. I had a lot of individual awards. But I wanted to make the tournament."

Iowa State has already lined up Kane's replacement in former UNLV star Bryce Dejean-Jones, and big man Jameel McKay — who left Marquette without ever a game — should bolster its front court.

More high-profile schools are also getting in on the transfer craze.

Donovan, who went 13 years without a transfer, has had one in each of the past five seasons. Arizona transfer guard T.J. McConnell helped the Wildcats spend much of last season ranked No. 1, and Mississippi State transfer Rodney Hood averaged 16.1 points a game for Duke last season.

Dayton's run to the Elite Eight was sparked by Ohio State transfer Jordan Sibert. The Buckeyes landed former Temple forward and graduate transfer Anthony Lee just weeks after losing to the Flyers in the NCAA tournament.

The NCAA said Friday that its Division I Board of Directors next week will look at so-called hardship transfers involving players who change schools citing "difficult life circumstances." Typically, some of those players have been allowed to play immediately but the board will review a recommendation that such transfers sit out a season to focus on their new school and life situation while getting an extra year added to their eligibility.

The NCAA said the change would provide consistency and reduce concerns about abuse of the waiver process — something that's on the mind of Michigan State coach Tom Izzo.

"It's sad that we're in that position," Izzo said. "I understand it and everyone wants one. If it's a fifth-year guy, I swallow it. But the underclassmen who are transferring and trying to be eligible immediately, I think it's free agency and I think it's going to hurt our game eventually."

TJ

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 09:20:46 AM »
This is all very funny and I really don't have time to get into it, but I'm stupid enough to reply so...

According to the consensus in this thread it's a good thing that a university can refuse to release a scholarship for a player which means that player cannot get financial assistance next year in addition to having to sit out from basketball.  How does that make sense given that scholarships are (mostly*) one-year renewable contracts that the school has every right to terminate after every season without explanation - and then the player has to sit out a year when he transfers anyway.  If it's a one-year renewable scholarship shouldn't it be renewable on both sides rather than giving all of the power to one party?

* I say mostly because I think the NCAA introduced 4 year scholarships recently, which is a good thing, but I'm not sure how widely used they are yet.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 09:23:44 AM »
This is all very funny and I really don't have time to get into it, but I'm stupid enough to reply so...

According to the consensus in this thread it's a good thing that a university can refuse to release a scholarship for a player which means that player cannot get financial assistance next year in addition to having to sit out from basketball.  How does that make sense given that scholarships are (mostly*) one-year renewable contracts that the school has every right to terminate after every season without explanation - and then the player has to sit out a year when he transfers anyway.  If it's a one-year renewable scholarship shouldn't it be renewable on both sides rather than giving all of the power to one party?

* I say mostly because I think the NCAA introduced 4 year scholarships recently, which is a good thing, but I'm not sure how widely used they are yet.

I would ask you to examine the rare instances in which case the transfer isn't granted and why that is the case.  It's a two way street, but you rarely hear it that way.  It is always the poor victim (student athlete) that is portrayed in that light without the other side of the story.

Benny B

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 02:29:31 PM »
This is all very funny and I really don't have time to get into it, but I'm stupid enough to reply so...

According to the consensus in this thread it's a good thing that a university can refuse to release a scholarship for a player which means that player cannot get financial assistance next year in addition to having to sit out from basketball.  How does that make sense given that scholarships are (mostly*) one-year renewable contracts that the school has every right to terminate after every season without explanation - and then the player has to sit out a year when he transfers anyway.  If it's a one-year renewable scholarship shouldn't it be renewable on both sides rather than giving all of the power to one party?

* I say mostly because I think the NCAA introduced 4 year scholarships recently, which is a good thing, but I'm not sure how widely used they are yet.

I've never seen an instance where the United Way gave a $50,000 grant to someone or something without some sort of conditions tied to it.

Golden Rule - He who has the gold makes the rules.  Universities are the ones handing out scholarships, so they make the rules.  If these kids aren't happy with the conditions tied to the scholarships, then you don't have to accept a scholarship.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU82

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 04:04:56 PM »
In the last few weeks the question came up if anyone denies a transfer after a coaching change.  Here is an example of one in the last two days.

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/18/4968431/kansas-state-committee-denies.html

Thank goodness someone did this. These kids have all the power while the schools, coaches, ADs, presidents and NCAA have none!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 06:14:05 PM »
Thank goodness someone did this. These kids have all the power while the schools, coaches, ADs, presidents and NCAA have none!

Said no one ever, but let's not forget the kid also knows the rules about transferring before he signed the line which is dotted.

MU82

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 10:55:56 PM »
Said no one ever, but let's not forget the kid also knows the rules about transferring before he signed the line which is dotted.

We've been around this Mulberry Bush before, Chicos. We both know that if the kid wants to play high-level basketball, he or she has no other realistic choice but to sign the dotted line.

But you go ahead and make your argument defending the power brokers who control everything -- including the kids' own images (another thing they "willingly" signed away). I'll stick with the underdog.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

keefe

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 11:06:05 PM »
I'll stick with the underdog.

Bert?



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MU82

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Re: Denying A Transfer
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 11:38:02 PM »
Bert?



Ha ... funny stuff!

For me, in this discussion, the underdog is every athlete. The overdog is the multibillion-dollar industrial college sports complex, which includes Bert.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson