collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 10:14:22 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Uncle Rico
[Today at 09:52:19 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Scoop Snoop
[Today at 09:51:44 AM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Zog from Margo
[Today at 09:41:55 AM]


Big East 23-24 NCAA and NIT Results by cheebs09
[Today at 09:36:47 AM]


Pep Band/Cheerleaders by TallTitan34
[Today at 09:22:48 AM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Bob "Big Daddy" Wild
[Today at 08:40:12 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Bucks Sold  (Read 9026 times)

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7403
    • https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2014, 01:25:04 PM »
I stand corrected.  But since 99.9% of Brown County residents are Packer fans, I am sure it wasn't very controversial.

Actually, it was controversial.  The referendum on the sales tax only passed 53-47.  

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101024/GPG0101/10240662/10-years-after-sales-tax-vote-public-still-divided-over-financing-Lambeau-Field-renovations

akmarq

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2014, 01:25:11 PM »
The Brewers didn't have much success until Selig sold them and Miller Park was built. Prior to Attanasio buying the Brewers their payroll was near the bottom of the league and the product reflected that. The Brewers don't have to win a championship to fill the seats, they've shown just being competitive will sell tickets, I'm for giving the Bucks the same benefit of the doubt.

Again - all SUPER tenuous justifications for building a stadium with public funding.

keefe

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8331
  • "Death From Above"
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2014, 01:26:22 PM »
I love this headline in today's JS  ::)

Incoming Bucks owners could make dramtic changes

I just read in the Seattle Times that the new Bucks owners were spotted buying up umbrellas and galoshes. Someone should tell them that people in the Emerald City use neither...


Death on call

MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1512
  • "Seat belts On! We're Going For A Ride!"
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2014, 01:42:13 PM »
The Brewers didn't have much success until Selig sold them and Miller Park was built. Prior to Attanasio buying the Brewers their payroll was near the bottom of the league and the product reflected that. The Brewers don't have to win a championship to fill the seats, they've shown just being competitive will sell tickets, I'm for giving the Bucks the same benefit of the doubt.

Selig - That guy is a snake.  I read an article stating that he made around $20 million per season, while the Brewers were down in the 90's/2000's.  Throw in the steroid scandal and you see that this guy is a bonafide, turd polisher. 

Ari Gold

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
  • L.H.I.O.B.
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2014, 01:43:05 PM »


Chick seems to have found a brand new workout: Backpedaling. best done after looking like an ass

As easy as it would be to extend the miller park tax, its a policy that won't be supported.  Key to get anything accomplished is to keep the legislature from voting on it.

The only way the Super TIF would work would be in the budget, no legislator wants to take a single vote on the Bucks. But then again MMAC is a heck of a lobbying organization.

A new BC will need to get close to $350m in private investment and paid upfront sponsorships. by then you might get corporate/county bonding and a TIF.

An overlooked option is negotiating a way is to use the already collected sale tax from the Wisconsin Center District to go towards a new arena.
Quote
Within Milwaukee County, the district collects a 2.5% tax on hotel rooms, a 3% tax on car rentals and a 0.50% tax on food and beverage sales. It also receives a 7% hotel room tax formerly collected by the City of Milwaukee.

This year (2013) the district expects to collect $27 million from those taxes: http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/head-of-wisconsin-center-district-says-it-has-no-money-for-arena-b9937584z1-212163831.html

Some part of $27m over 20 years would be more than enough if the above is included.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 01:44:40 PM by Ari Gold »

keefe

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8331
  • "Death From Above"
Re: Bucks Sold, New Arena Coming? Huge Positve for MU
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2014, 01:48:21 PM »
It ultimately comes down to who has a big wiener game. 

These guys are savvy investors. They sink some capital in the Bucks, demand a new venue, when the taxpayers back there refuse they sell to Hansen and Balmer and walk away with a handsome return.


Death on call

jsglow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7378
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2014, 02:34:46 PM »
Public financing for a stadium is never popular.  Of the 3 in the state, Lambeau was the easiest.  Miller Park was VERY controversial ultimately passing by one vote in Madison, and costing that politician his job in the next election.  I personally supported Miller Park as I am convinced that Milwaukee is far more a baseball town rather than a (pro) basketball town.  And 3.0 million fans every years would seem to corroberate that.  And County Stadium was fully 50 years old when replaced.  Moreover, Miller's convertible roof utility completely changed the dynamic for baseball in Milwaukee.

I think the Bucks ownership (both new and old) just took a major step by agreening to finance roughly 40% of a new arena.  Is it enough?  I'm not sure.  Do I support it? Again, I'm not sure.  Like chick, I think Milwaukee would embrace an NHL franchise in a refurbished (say $100MM spent) BMO Bradley.  It would be superior to most NHL facilities.  Anyway, its all a pretty tough call and far from a done deal long term.

brandx

  • Guest
Re: Bucks Sold, New Arena Coming? Huge Positve for MU
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2014, 02:43:52 PM »
If I had to guess, it is because of racism


So you are ok with tax breaks for oil companies then, because more exploration, more jobs, more tax income.



The reason I think most people cringe at stadium deals vs private businesses is the nature of the business.  When people see a baseball stadium used for 81 games a year, maybe 3 concerts and a few other things, it bothers them.  When they see a football stadium being used for 10 Sundays a year, maybe a truck pull and a rugby tournament, at the cost of $800 million, it bothers them.  Private businesses are slugging it out 365 days a year and usually involve many more full time people (jobs), plus brain power (engineers, technicians, MBAs, etc) that are good to have in large quantities in your city, state, etc.  When one lives in a community and sees the local and\or state gov't having to put up $350M or whatever for a place where a bunch of guys play a game, wrong or right perception, it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many when there are other ways that money could be spent.  Again, wrong or right, that's the perception many people have.  Then some of the guys on the team get into trouble, the team sucks, etc, etc, it doesn't help the cause.  So in my view, it is not an appropriate comparison because of the very real and\or perceived differences with sports vs day-to-day business.

Let the people decide.

Come on - I was almost feeling bad for picking on you too much  ;D

AKMARQ - the part in teal is just a joke. Chicos and I just do this as part of our responses to each other. He knows I'm right about everything, so.....

akmarq

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Bucks Sold, New Arena Coming? Huge Positve for MU
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2014, 02:57:35 PM »
These guys are savvy investors. They sink some capital in the Bucks, demand a new venue, when the taxpayers back there refuse they sell to Hansen and Balmer and walk away with a handsome return.

It worked out so well for the Marlins and the city of Miami. Why not try it here?

source?

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 767
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2014, 02:58:45 PM »
Public financing for a stadium is never popular.  Of the 3 in the state, Lambeau was the easiest.  Miller Park was VERY controversial ultimately passing by one vote in Madison, and costing that politician his job in the next election.  I personally supported Miller Park as I am convinced that Milwaukee is far more a baseball town rather than a (pro) basketball town.  And 3.0 million fans every years would seem to corroberate that.  And County Stadium was fully 50 years old when replaced.  Moreover, Miller's convertible roof utility completely changed the dynamic for baseball in Milwaukee.

I think the Bucks ownership (both new and old) just took a major step by agreening to finance roughly 40% of a new arena.  Is it enough?  I'm not sure.  Do I support it? Again, I'm not sure.  Like chick, I think Milwaukee would embrace an NHL franchise in a refurbished (say $100MM spent) BMO Bradley.  It would be superior to most NHL facilities.  Anyway, its all a pretty tough call and far from a done deal long term.

Actual question, not being snarky, which NHL team is looking to move? I could live with that trade. I would love to keep the Bucks in town, even if that means continuing the stadium tax (yeah, I know they probably won't). However, if we replace them with another major sports franchise, then I would be ok with that.

jsglow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7378
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2014, 03:04:25 PM »
Actual question, not being snarky, which NHL team is looking to move? I could live with that trade. I would love to keep the Bucks in town, even if that means continuing the stadium tax (yeah, I know they probably won't). However, if we replace them with another major sports franchise, then I would be ok with that.

Not sure but my point is that several NHL franchises would seemingly think Milwaukee is a better alternative then their current situation much like the new owners of the Bucks might think that eventually relocating to Seattle might enhance the value of their new investment.  Highest and best use stuff.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2014, 03:21:41 PM »
I never like one penny of public funding going toward making rich people even richer. Sadly, that's the way the game has been played for a couple of decades now.

If you want a major-league team (and by that, I mean a team in one of the four major pro leagues), you have to play by the unwritten but accepted rules. If you don't want that team, then let it go.

Some cities/counties/states like to use a tourist tax on rental cars, hotel rooms, etc., to build these things. That, of course, is a big shell game -- Minnesotans visit Wisconsin and pay for the arena there; Wisconsinites visit Arizona and pay for the arena there; Arizonans visit California and pay for the arena there; Californians visit Minnesota and pay for the arena there; etc.

I hear what Chicos is saying: Put it up for a vote! But we don't put all kinds of taxes up for a referendum vote. At least not directly; we do vote for the legislators who enact them. Maybe we should put gun control and abortion and pollution regulations and wars up for referendum votes, too? No, that is why we have elections.

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Ari Gold

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
  • L.H.I.O.B.
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2014, 03:23:52 PM »
This has been covered a few times, but Milwaukee is as best 5th in the queue for an NHL Team
Portland/Seattle, Las Vegas, Kansas City, a 2nd Toronto (Hamilton) team and Quebec are all pushing for teams too.

besides, in a scenario where the bucks leave what owner in their right mind would move an NHL team after the Bucks are shown the door?
Why do you think Attanasio is so keen on helping finance a new BC arena? its so that in 10-15-25 years when MP needs a re-up he can show that he was a team player and helped the Bucks stay.

Now if MU was to start a program...

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2014, 03:58:40 PM »
Actual question, not being snarky, which NHL team is looking to move? I could live with that trade. I would love to keep the Bucks in town, even if that means continuing the stadium tax (yeah, I know they probably won't). However, if we replace them with another major sports franchise, then I would be ok with that.

Need to add Hartford to the list also.  Our governor recently announced there are 3 legitimate parties that he is in contact with who want to bring the NHL back to Hartford.  He reiterated there was no guarantee it will happen and they are keeping everything tight-lipped.  There's also rumblings of a new Downtown Hartford arena in the works.  Apparently Hartford needs a new building for UConn men's & women's basketball and UConn hockey (that's upgrading to Hockey East) anyway as the XL Center is like 45 years old. 
The Boston Bruins recently stated they prefer a team back in Hartford and I read a quote from an unnamed NHL insider they regret letting the Whalers relocate in the first place.

Ari listed cities that have interest in NHL.  Kansas City is the classic example of if you build it they still don't come.  From what I read, Seattle will only build the new arena if an NBA team is involved.  A second team in Toronto will never happen as Toronto & Buffalo will never allow it.  Hartford is a bigger media market than KC & Milwaukee with no other professional sport's competition.  I would have doubts about anything professional in Vegas.  Quebec is legit and they are building a new arena.  And there is something with the TV contract and the number of Canadian based teams.  So if I team moves to Quebec, another team cannot move to Canada as it would violate the percentage allotment.

Ari Gold

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
  • L.H.I.O.B.
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2014, 04:17:39 PM »
I left Houston off the list too. its more like the NHL wants to add another Texas team and Houston is the largest market without one.

The Toronto/Hamilton team in interesting because its believed that the size of the city can support another team, but that might be blocked by Buffalo since a sizeable chunk of their fans are Canadian

Seattle --> KC -->Hartford --> Quebec --> Milwaukee in the best case scenario for NHL

I've argued that the NHL should market test some of these potential relocation cites with new Winter outdoor games - even if they're just exhibition.
Dabble a toe in the water with games at MP, Arrowhead, Century Link...

🏀

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8467
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2014, 05:22:32 PM »
The stadium series is a horrible way to test the market. It's a novelty and people will always show.

Use playoff TV numbers, college hockey to judge a market. I'm positive Houston won't support an NHL team.

ChicosBailBonds

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22695
  • #AllInnocentLivesMatter
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Bucks Sold, New Arena Coming? Huge Positve for MU
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2014, 05:36:04 PM »
These guys are savvy investors. They sink some capital in the Bucks, demand a new venue, when the taxpayers back there refuse they sell to Hansen and Balmer and walk away with a handsome return.

Either way, they are going to walk away with a nice return.  The city builds them a new playhouse, new revenue streams, free rent, huge take on concessions and parking, value of franchise goes up....they sell in 15 years, the ROI is crazy good with much of it on the backs of taxpayers.  Or, they move it under the scenario you mentioned by holding another town hostage and getting a bidding war to do exactly that.

Either way, they come out smelling like a rose.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2014, 09:57:53 AM »
The stadium series is a horrible way to test the market. It's a novelty and people will always show.

Use playoff TV numbers, college hockey to judge a market. I'm positive Houston won't support an NHL team.

* It's my understanding that Hartford-New Haven has some of the best playoff TV ratings.
* Hartford Whalers merchandise surprising sells the most or is consistently one of the Top 5 sellers in the NHL.
* The college hockey teams in Connecticut are very strong also.
* It's been an insult all these years that the AHL team that replaced the Whalers is the NY Rangers farm team.

reinko

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2696
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2014, 10:07:29 AM »
* It's my understanding that Hartford-New Haven has some of the best playoff TV ratings.
* Hartford Whalers merchandise surprising sells the most or is consistently one of the Top 5 sellers in the NHL.
* The college hockey teams in Connecticut are very strong also.
* It's been an insult all these years that the AHL team that replaced the Whalers is the NY Rangers farm team.


Hartford, the Whale?


MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2014, 10:10:44 AM »
Yale University has it's own rink designed by architect Eero Saarinen that everyone refers to as "The Yale Whale."

keefe

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8331
  • "Death From Above"
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2014, 01:46:17 PM »
Need to add Hartford to the list also. 

Can Hartford support a major league franchise? I mean, it has what? 14, 15 thousand people? Or are you including Kewauskum?


Death on call

DegenerateDish

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2531
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2014, 08:40:59 PM »
Hard to believe that the Clippers sale price may end up being $2 billion more than the Bucks. Market for the Clips is out of control. With no real estate a part of the deal, on paper, anything above $2 billion is crazy.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15994
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 08:48:24 PM »
Yeah but, it's LA. New owners have a sleepin' giant and won't lose any bread.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4916
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2014, 09:03:23 PM »
Back to the Brewers & Bucks...in 2001 the Brewers sent their Sausage Mascots down to Water & Wisconsin wearing Bucks jerseys during the lunch hour in April & May trying to piggy back on Bucks Fever.  SI or ESPN called Bucks fans the best in the league (a slap in the face to Arco, btw).  Bucks games were sold out.  Even in the flop season of 2002 tickets were very, very hard to come by. 

Milwaukee is a front running town.  Win and they're in and they're in big.  Support of the Bucks, given a better product, is a  given.  I think the NHL would face a long road here.  This is not Minnesota, hockey is a foreign sport to most.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

brandx

  • Guest
Re: Bucks Sold
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2014, 12:54:29 AM »
Hard to believe that the Clippers sale price may end up being $2 billion more than the Bucks. Market for the Clips is out of control. With no real estate a part of the deal, on paper, anything above $2 billion is crazy.

At first glance it is. But, the mega-rich will always buy money trees when they become available - whatever the cost.

 

feedback