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Author Topic: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union  (Read 38854 times)

brandx

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #150 on: April 18, 2014, 05:53:16 PM »
Those rules are there for a reason....don't like the rules, then change the rules.  The reason, is easy.  Massive abuse in the past where schools that were attached to big market pro teams could give away free tickets and an inducement, creating an unfair advantage for all the schools that don't have access to that.  Say Marquette was in Rhinelander and our biggest rival was in Chicago.  We recruit for the same kids, but the Chicago school gave free tickets to Bears, Bulls, Hawks, Cubs, White Sox games to their recruits and current players.  Anytime, all the time. 

That was the complaint, that's why the rule is there. 


1. Thou dost seem to be protesting way too much.

2. "don't like the rules... change the rules" - What does that mean? Are you saying the players who should have no voice have the ability to change the rules? Well, guess what? They ARE taking your advice. They are trying to change the rules the only way that is possible.

WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #151 on: April 18, 2014, 06:05:26 PM »
  Unionization of collegiate athletics will ruin things for athletes who do not play Football or Basketball. This is a union play using the spoiled, pampered ones who are virtually the only ones (save for baseball and maybe soccer) who have a pro future and their college experience and training is what makes them marketable.  Having had children who were recruited to play collegiate athletics I know that they are provided among other things,  clothing and perks like a bag to put their laundry in so someone can take them to be cleaned. The opportunity for an education certainly is the major payoff here for serious students. I seriously doubt Napier has been starved by UCONN but as a typical young man is just constantly hungry from one meal to the next.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #152 on: April 18, 2014, 06:31:49 PM »
Those rules are there for a reason....don't like the rules, then change the rules.  The reason, is easy.  Massive abuse in the past where schools that were attached to big market pro teams could give away free tickets and an inducement, creating an unfair advantage for all the schools that don't have access to that.  Say Marquette was in Rhinelander and our biggest rival was in Chicago.  We recruit for the same kids, but the Chicago school gave free tickets to Bears, Bulls, Hawks, Cubs, White Sox games to their recruits and current players.  Anytime, all the time.  

That was the complaint, that's why the rule is there.  

Yes, the rules are their for a reason as this article states.  But not what Chicos states.

The reason is they were passed 25 years ago to protect the schools that were losing buckets of money.  In union terms the schools and the NCAA made the "work rules" more difficult to save money.  So why the stupid food rule, and the 20-hours practice rule?  To save money!

Now that the economics are much more favorable the schools and the NCAA are slow to change to work rules in favor for the student athlete.  And predictably the student athletes are pushing back by threatening to unionize.

----------

The story below talks about the environment in 1991 that lead to the rule changes were are talking about today.

Chicago Sun-Times Columnist Rick Telender wrote a book about UW during this period called From Red Ink to Roses: The Turbulent Transformation of a Big Ten Program

http://www.amazon.com/From-Red-Ink-Roses-Transformation/dp/product-description/067174853X

From the reviews ...

Telander also weaves in the stories of dozens of Wisconsin athletes, coaches and administrators to trace the changes in the university's athletic department throughout 1991. The year was marked by the department's efforts to cut its budget deficit, an endeavor that included eliminating baseball, fencing and three other sports. ... Here, he examines the workings of the athletic department at the University of Wisconsin, a large, prestigious institution that is attempting to strike a balance between educational goals and winning games. Among the many threads that Telander weaves together are budget cuts, sexual harassment, gender equity, marketing schemes, fund-raising efforts, recruiting adventures, lawsuits, violence, the NCAA, corruption, the tension between major (football and men's basketball) and minor (everything else) sports, and the effects of all of the above on the mental and physical health of the athletes. ... How the University of Wisconsin athletic department went from a debt-ridden mess in 1990 to one of the healthiest programs in the country, capped by its once hapless football team's stunning 1994 Rose Bowl victory.

----------------------


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10803318/mark-emmert-ends-ncaa-food-fight

Pick the silliest NCAA rules, and the odds are, the NCAA membership passed them to level the playing field. That is the genesis of the one-meal-a-day rule. It was passed in January 1991 as part of a revolutionary package of reforms endorsed by the NCAA Presidents Commission with the intent of reining in runaway spending and reasserting university control over athletics.

"It is time for the NCAA membership to act on the basis of Association interest -- what is best for the whole of college athletics -- rather than what might be desired by any of its component parts," NCAA executive director Dick Schultz said that week at the NCAA convention in Nashville.

The Presidents Commission came about at the end of the 1980s, a decade of rampant cheating, amid concerns that intercollegiate athletics had gone out of control. The SMU death penalty remained a fresh memory. The vast majority of athletic administrators welcomed the presidents asserting their control. The presidents did so with a heavy hand. Virtually the only officials to complain about the rules changes were the coaches who would have to operate under them. But their voices were not taken seriously.

The American economy sputtered at the time -- President George H.W. Bush would lose his re-election bid the following year -- and the fear of continued overspending served as an impetus for the reform package. Budget issues certainly generated more fear than the thought of what might happen to student-athletes who didn't get enough to eat. The reform package included rules to benefit student-athletes, among them the 20-hour playing week.

Nearly a quarter-century later, most of that cost-cutting package has been repealed or become obsolete. The 20-hour rule is a rule in name only, as the NLRB regional director explained in his ruling in the Northwestern case.

The rule cutting coaching staffs and limiting the earnings of some assistant coaches cost the NCAA members $54.5 million to settle an antitrust suit. There is one significant exception. The decision to reduce the overall scholarship limit for FBS schools from 95 to 85 brought about increased parity that has served the sport well.

If money is speech, as the U.S. Supreme Court just finished saying, then the top FBS schools have a lot to say. If, as Slive says, the first words out of their collective mouths are "student-athlete," then intercollegiate athletics will survive their self-induced crisis.

But events -- lawsuits, the Northwestern case -- are moving faster than the NCAA membership is. "If we don't find a way to funnel more benefits to student-athletes," Pacific athletic director Ted Leland said last week, "then people on the outside are going to do it for us."

MUSF

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #153 on: April 18, 2014, 07:01:16 PM »
I can only guess by your comments that you don't understand the representation and voice they already have.  So, no, I don't agree with your initial statement that they have no representation.  As with way too much in this thread, the amount of wrong knowledge about their situation is fascinating and revealing at the same time.

Now, is that representation the same.  Nope, but they do have a voice.  SAAC has been around for 25 years is just one area where that representation is manifested. 

Okay, enlighten me. Please explain how the players are represented when NCAA members introduce legislation? I'm dying to hear this, because I assume you are going to provide some BS about how the schools represent the athlete's interests.

brandx

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #154 on: April 18, 2014, 10:57:20 PM »
 Unionization of collegiate athletics will ruin things for athletes who do not play Football or Basketball. This is a union play using the spoiled, pampered ones who are virtually the only ones (save for baseball and maybe soccer) who have a pro future and their college experience and training is what makes them marketable.  Having had children who were recruited to play collegiate athletics I know that they are provided among other things,  clothing and perks like a bag to put their laundry in so someone can take them to be cleaned. The opportunity for an education certainly is the major payoff here for serious students. I seriously doubt Napier has been starved by UCONN but as a typical young man is just constantly hungry from one meal to the next.

If a "unionization" comes to pass - it probably won't much affect almost all athletes who don't play BB or FB - other than medical care after they graduate if the care is needed because of something that happened while playing their sport.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #155 on: April 19, 2014, 12:03:08 PM »
1. Thou dost seem to be protesting way too much.

2. "don't like the rules... change the rules" - What does that mean? Are you saying the players who should have no voice have the ability to change the rules? Well, guess what? They ARE taking your advice. They are trying to change the rules the only way that is possible.

Hardly protesting too much.  I find it amazing someone can say don't suspend the kid for taking free tickets.  The kid knew the rules and the rules are common sense.  This idea that it is "just tickets" leads to "it's just free shoes'...it's "just a few sweatshirts"...it's "just a crappy motorized scooter", etc, etc

They are an inducement, they are not allowed.

If YOU, the fan don't like these rules.  Contact your school.  Ask them why they voted for these rules.  Tell them you want it changed because of the vast injustice done to these kids at Marquette that are receiving more than $200K education and all the other benefits that go with them.  And certainly, the student athletes can do the same.  Have them make the case on how terrible they have it to the athletic department, convince them they need change.

Or, since the student athletes DO have a voice through SAAC and other outlets, have them make the case there directly to the NCAA.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #156 on: April 19, 2014, 12:05:40 PM »
If a "unionization" comes to pass - it probably won't much affect almost all athletes who don't play BB or FB - other than medical care after they graduate if the care is needed because of something that happened while playing their sport.

They ALREADY have insurance for related injuries that happened playing their sport....again, why do people keep saying these things WHEN THAT ALREADY EXISTS.  smh

The other part you are missing, if unionization happens at SOME schools, they will drop some sports...and that most certainly will impact athletes that don't play BB and FB.  There are consequences to actions.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #157 on: April 19, 2014, 12:11:26 PM »
They ALREADY have insurance for related injuries that happened playing their sport....again, why do people keep saying these things WHEN THAT ALREADY EXISTS.  smh

The other part you are missing, if unionization happens at SOME schools, they will drop some sports...and that most certainly will impact athletes that don't play BB and FB.  There are consequences to actions.

Again,  the players don't think much of their current insurance package.  You might but your opinion doesn't count.

As far as some schools dropping sports, that just hyperbole designed to scare.  No evidence any of this will happen.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #158 on: April 19, 2014, 12:12:55 PM »
Okay, enlighten me. Please explain how the players are represented when NCAA members introduce legislation? I'm dying to hear this, because I assume you are going to provide some BS about how the schools represent the athlete's interests.

No different than you or I are represented when Congress passes legislation.  We have input to our representatives, etc.  For student athletes, the number one way is the SAAC, the Student Athlete Advisory Committee that is a liason with the schools, conferences and the NCAA.  The committee is made up of current student athletes.  Every university in the NCAA has representation. 

For Marquette:

President: Rachel Stier, Volleyball
Vice-President: John Mau, Men's Soccer
Secretary: Maegan Kelly, Women's Soccer
Tresurer: Bret Hardin, Men's Track

Men's Tennis: Logon Collins, Dan Mamalat
Women's Tennis: Alexandra Dawson, Ana Pimienta Ibarra
Women's Cross Country: Haley Loprieno, Rebecca Pachuta
Men's Basketball: Jamil Wilson, Derrick Wilson
Women's Basketball: Lauren Tibbs, Api Ojulu
Men's Track: Michael Saindon
Women's Track: Katherine Kemmerer, Kristen Gaffey
Men's Lacrosse: Ben Dvorak, Daniel Mojica
Women's Lacrosse: Jenaye Coleman, Meredith Donaldson
Men's Golf: Corey Konieczki, Nicholas Nelson
Women's Volleyball: Courtney Mrotek
Men's Soccer: Bryan Ciesiulka
Women's Soccer: Cara Jacobson

There is then representation at the conference level of students.  So the Big East has SAAC representatives from each member school. 


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #159 on: April 19, 2014, 12:13:22 PM »

Northwestern Union vote this Friday April 25.

Yup, I'll stick my neck out and say it doesn't pass.

HoyaPotter

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #160 on: April 19, 2014, 12:15:34 PM »
If a "unionization" comes to pass - it probably won't much affect almost all athletes who don't play BB or FB - other than medical care after they graduate if the care is needed because of something that happened while playing their sport.

It will.  Title IX will make sure they get paid equally with BB and FB.
This will be a big mess.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #161 on: April 19, 2014, 12:26:57 PM »
Again,  the players don't think much of their current insurance package.  You might but your opinion doesn't count.

As far as some schools dropping sports, that just hyperbole designed to scare.  No evidence any of this will happen.

LOL.  Right.  It's a matter of pure economics.  It will happen, guaranteed...question is to what level.  I'm trying to think of examples in the past where unions demanded something, management said no and if they pushed, the jobs and plant would be scuttled...then the typical response "it's just hyperbole designed to scare...no evidence any of this will happen"...yeah, tough to come up with those examples.   ::)

And I'm sorry if they don't like the insurance package, maybe I don't like it at my work.  My options, go buy one on my own, get another job.  Welcome to the real world.

LloydMooresLegs

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #162 on: April 19, 2014, 12:28:29 PM »

Or, since the student athletes DO have a voice through SAAC and other outlets, have them make the case there directly to the NCAA.

Or better yet, and far more effective, take the union gambit, which likely will not result in actual unionization, but instead in huge PR and move toward reform.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #163 on: April 19, 2014, 12:32:38 PM »
Or better yet, and far more effective, take the union gambit, which likely will not result in actual unionization, but instead in huge PR and move toward reform.

My guess, Northwestern football will not vote to unionize, Heisenburg will be floored along with a few others here.  There will be some "reforms", though many of them have already been in the works...the NCAA doesn't vote on legislation every weekend or every month like some would desire here.  People on one side will claim victory for these reforms (again, most of them already in the works) and then we'll go through the whole process again in a few years when more and more and more and more and more is asked for.  Because the top line revenue number comes from ONE SINGLE source, the NCAA television contract, those dollars (96% of them) go to fund the championships for DI, DII, DIII and for 450,000 student athletes.  There is only so much MORE that can be given without it impacting the 99% that are playing, in school to get an education. 

Ramifications to all of this.

LloydMooresLegs

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #164 on: April 19, 2014, 01:02:35 PM »
My view is that they do not vote to unionize; if they do, the northwestern appeal will win anyway; if the players win all the ay up to the Supreme Court, which I doubt very very much, few other teams will join.  You are right that various rules changes have been in process me time; you are wrong if you believe that the union effort does not impact timing and outcome.  And I say that not knowing whether the players ultimate end game is unnionization or just to impact outcome, as I suggest.

brandx

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #165 on: April 19, 2014, 01:39:51 PM »
They ALREADY have insurance for related injuries that happened playing their sport....again, why do people keep saying these things WHEN THAT ALREADY EXISTS.  smh



Sorry. No.

If a football player has issues from a football-related injury, the colleges aren't going to cover the care needed if the guy is 60 years old.

LloydMooresLegs

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #166 on: April 19, 2014, 01:48:03 PM »
BTW, the only good thing about sitting all day in a warehouse with 9 vball courts going full time is catching up on scoop.

MUSF

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2014, 01:54:32 PM »
No different than you or I are represented when Congress passes legislation. 


This is just absolutely untrue. In fact it made me laugh out loud when I read it.

Our representatives in Congress actually have the power to create legislation and an equal vote on whether that legislation becomes law. The SAAC has no such power. It's like a high school's student government.

Comparing the SAAC to Congress is probably the most ridiculous thing you have posted in this thread.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2014, 02:32:10 PM »
My view is that they do not vote to unionize; if they do, the northwestern appeal will win anyway; if the players win all the ay up to the Supreme Court, which I doubt very very much, few other teams will join.  You are right that various rules changes have been in process me time; you are wrong if you believe that the union effort does not impact timing and outcome.  And I say that not knowing whether the players ultimate end game is unnionization or just to impact outcome, as I suggest.

Considering some of the lawyers involved pushing unionization, their goal is clear....whether the student athletes want it, we'll see.  Let's not diminish the outside forces at work here and what their intentions are.

On the timing and outcome, much of that is based on when the legislation is voted on and how soon things can be reasonable executed.  This isn't a situation like Congress where they can call up a vote any day they want.   

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #169 on: April 19, 2014, 02:48:20 PM »
Sorry. No.

If a football player has issues from a football-related injury, the colleges aren't going to cover the care needed if the guy is 60 years old.


The NCAA has catastrophic coverage for student athletes...DI schools carry this at a rate of 98% while DII and DIII schools around 79%.  The NCAA also has disability coverage through the ESDI program, launched 25 years ago.

The NCAA also requires every student athlete to have their own personal insurance, just like my son's high school does and my son's soccer league does, or my daughter's league does.  Most students are also covered by the university if the injury happens while enrolled.  Kevin Ware's leg snapping in two, Louisville covered those expenses.  Now, was Louisville required to cover those?  No.  It is not mandated by the NCAAs policies.

Look, can improvements be made, etc, etc?  Of course.  No one is denying that. 





 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #170 on: July 21, 2014, 11:50:42 PM »
He feels the same way I do, Olympic sports will be cut and opportunities for young people removed.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11243234/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-says-cheating-pays-ncaa-enforcement-broken

77ncaachamps

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #171 on: July 22, 2014, 12:07:52 AM »
This is truly American elitist: beat the system, succeed, and watch others fail.

Then lament why others can't play by the rules.
SS Marquette

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #172 on: July 22, 2014, 05:16:21 AM »
This is truly American elitist: beat the system, succeed, and watch others fail.

Then lament why others can't play by the rules.

Exactly,

Fact is the changes coming are going to save the system that is currently broken.  Don't expect the Big 12 commissioner (aka, the bitch of Texas) to ever acknowledge this as the longhorns have it good with the current corrupt system and want to keep it this way.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #173 on: July 22, 2014, 09:12:09 AM »
Exactly,

Fact is the changes coming are going to save the system that is currently broken.  Don't expect the Big 12 commissioner (aka, the bitch of Texas) to ever acknowledge this as the longhorns have it good with the current corrupt system and want to keep it this way.

So you are now saying changes are coming, but it will survive?  At least you took down the hyperbole. 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #174 on: July 22, 2014, 09:13:56 AM »
This is truly American elitist: beat the system, succeed, and watch others fail.

Then lament why others can't play by the rules.

That's one part of it, the other part is about all the opportunities for young people will now disappear, which is a shame.  No one seems to care about the 99%, it's the 1% that are "on the plantation and can't eat 6 meals a day"

 

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