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Author Topic: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union  (Read 38864 times)

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2014, 08:04:01 AM »
all because poor Shabazz Napier went to bed 'starving'  ::)

ChicosBailBonds

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Steve Patterson...finally saying it
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2014, 12:31:58 AM »
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10800648/texas-longhorns-ad-steve-patterson-counters-northwestern-push-players-union

BINGO...sounds like the same things I've been saying...people focusing on the 1% will destroy opportunities for the 400,000+ student athletes out there that have zero chance of doing anything in pro sports.


"The universities, the conferences and the NCAA have done a very poor job of telling our story and we've allowed this story to be created by the sports press to focus on the one-half of 1 percent of the student-athletes that go on to play pro sports. But 99.5 percent of student-athletes would not be in the position they're in without getting a scholarship."

"The difficulty in opening up free-market marketing to the half of the 1 percent is that it would create a competitive balance issue," Patterson said. "It would be easy for Booster X to figure out how'd he'd essentially pay a recruit to come to a school."

MUSF

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Re: Steve Patterson...finally saying it
« Reply #127 on: April 18, 2014, 01:32:11 AM »
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10800648/texas-longhorns-ad-steve-patterson-counters-northwestern-push-players-union

BINGO...sounds like the same things I've been saying...people focusing on the 1% will destroy opportunities for the 400,000+ student athletes out there that have zero chance of doing anything in pro sports.


"The universities, the conferences and the NCAA have done a very poor job of telling our story and we've allowed this story to be created by the sports press to focus on the one-half of 1 percent of the student-athletes that go on to play pro sports. But 99.5 percent of student-athletes would not be in the position they're in without getting a scholarship."


"The difficulty in opening up free-market marketing to the half of the 1 percent is that it would create a competitive balance issue," Patterson said. "It would be easy for Booster X to figure out how'd he'd essentially pay a recruit to come to a school."

Again, I'll use some of your favorite phrases for arguing your position on this issue. Welcome to the real world... life's not fair.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this assessment, but it doesn't really change the issue in any significant way. The NCAA has to make a difficult decision about its true identity. For years all of these schools have been straddling a line between a multi-billion dollar industry and an organization providing education opportunities for amateur athletes. They aren't going to be able to straddle that line much longer.

The small percentage of athletes that go on to play pro sports are also the same athletes that make all of the money that supports the opportunities for the athletes that won't compete beyond college. The 1% athletes have figured this out, and are now leveraging their position to get the best possible deal. You may not like it, but that's the way things work in America. Frankly, I find it somewhat amusing that you would post an argument that bemoans the impact free-market capitalism will have on competitive balance.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #128 on: April 18, 2014, 11:09:09 AM »
NCAA's Emmert Defends Scholarship Values, Insurance Coverage On ESPN Radio

NCAA President Mark Emmert appeared on ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike" Friday morning and talked about several of the bigger issues facing the organization, including whether the value of a scholarship is enough, granting student-athletes unlimited food and the unionization efforts at Northwestern. Emmert said while the NCAA generates $800-900M annually from the men's basketball tournament, it is the only event that brings in revenue. Emmert: "That money pays for all of intercollegiate athletics that we’re involved with. We run 89 championships -- Divisions I, II, III, all of the sports. Everything that we do is paid for by that one top-line revenue number. So when people say, ‘Oh my God, look at all of the money colleges are getting and earning and making off of a sport,’ that’s just dead wrong. ... This notion that somehow there is a big vault with $10 billion in it is silly." He noted "most everybody" that works in college athletics would say a scholarship is enough for student-athletes without adding a stipend. Emmert: "If we’re providing the full cost of attendance and the student doesn't have to reach in their own pocket to pay for their education, they’re getting all the things they need. I heard you guys talking about insurance and a bunch of other things. We need to address all of those issues, but there is almost nobody that I’ve ever talked to that wants to turn student-athletes into paid employees of universities.” Emmert was asked if colleges are losing out on money by giving out scholarships. He responded, “Yes, sure they are. They are taking a seat from a paying student."

PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE: Emmert said he did not "know how to interpret" UConn G Shabazz Napier’s comments made during the Final Four that he sometimes goes to bed hungry because he cannot afford to buy food, but the athletes on full scholarship are either given the "cash equivalent of what a full meal plan is worth or they’re getting a full meal plan." The NCAA earlier this week allowed athletes to get unlimited meals and snacks, and Emmert admitted that the NCAA's "biggest problem" is "dumb rules about food." Emmert: "If UConn wants to feed Shabazz breakfast in bed every day, they can. Great, fine, who cares? Feed kids what they need for nutrition, get out of the nitpicky nonsense.”

COVERAGE PLANS: Insurance coverage is a key aspect of the ongoing unionization effort at Northwestern, but Emmert said athletes are already covered if someone "gets injured today playing football or basketball or any sport and that’s a prolonged injury, goes and sticks with them their whole lifetime." Emmert: "We spend $20 million a year on long-term insurance policies for student-athletes. We have young men and young women who tragically have had injuries stretch all the way through their life. They've been covered for 20, 30 years in some cases. We need to make sure that that’s good enough. We need to make sure that the insurance while they’re playing is good enough. We’re pretty confident that it is" (“Mike & Mike,” ESPN Radio, 4/18).

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #129 on: April 18, 2014, 11:16:50 AM »
NCAA's Emmert Defends Scholarship Values, Insurance Coverage On ESPN Radio

NCAA President Mark Emmert appeared on ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike" Friday morning and talked about several of the bigger issues facing the organization, including whether the value of a scholarship is enough, granting student-athletes unlimited food and the unionization efforts at Northwestern. Emmert said while the NCAA generates $800-900M annually from the men's basketball tournament, it is the only event that brings in revenue. Emmert: "That money pays for all of intercollegiate athletics that we’re involved with. We run 89 championships -- Divisions I, II, III, all of the sports. Everything that we do is paid for by that one top-line revenue number. So when people say, ‘Oh my God, look at all of the money colleges are getting and earning and making off of a sport,’ that’s just dead wrong. ... This notion that somehow there is a big vault with $10 billion in it is silly." He noted "most everybody" that works in college athletics would say a scholarship is enough for student-athletes without adding a stipend. Emmert: "If we’re providing the full cost of attendance and the student doesn't have to reach in their own pocket to pay for their education, they’re getting all the things they need. I heard you guys talking about insurance and a bunch of other things. We need to address all of those issues, but there is almost nobody that I’ve ever talked to that wants to turn student-athletes into paid employees of universities.” Emmert was asked if colleges are losing out on money by giving out scholarships. He responded, “Yes, sure they are. They are taking a seat from a paying student."

PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE: Emmert said he did not "know how to interpret" UConn G Shabazz Napier’s comments made during the Final Four that he sometimes goes to bed hungry because he cannot afford to buy food, but the athletes on full scholarship are either given the "cash equivalent of what a full meal plan is worth or they’re getting a full meal plan." The NCAA earlier this week allowed athletes to get unlimited meals and snacks, and Emmert admitted that the NCAA's "biggest problem" is "dumb rules about food." Emmert: "If UConn wants to feed Shabazz breakfast in bed every day, they can. Great, fine, who cares? Feed kids what they need for nutrition, get out of the nitpicky nonsense.”

COVERAGE PLANS: Insurance coverage is a key aspect of the ongoing unionization effort at Northwestern, but Emmert said athletes are already covered if someone "gets injured today playing football or basketball or any sport and that’s a prolonged injury, goes and sticks with them their whole lifetime." Emmert: "We spend $20 million a year on long-term insurance policies for student-athletes. We have young men and young women who tragically have had injuries stretch all the way through their life. They've been covered for 20, 30 years in some cases. We need to make sure that that’s good enough. We need to make sure that the insurance while they’re playing is good enough. We’re pretty confident that it is" (“Mike & Mike,” ESPN Radio, 4/18).

If Emmert is correct, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job of communicating this to the players.  They do not believe him.  Or more to the point, the student-athletes value scholarships and the insurance the NCAA offers differently than Emmert and see a much lower value than he assigns.  That is why they are organizing.

If Emmert is wrong, he should be fired.  In this case he is offering an incorrect view of the world.


LloydMooresLegs

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #130 on: April 18, 2014, 11:31:00 AM »
I heard most of the interview, and he did a good job in trying to get the NCAA back in control of the story (goes to the point below about him being fired for letting the narrative go so wrong for so long), but he also misdirected a bunch (I know,--   :o :o ) and flat out lied on several points, including stating that if the players were "deemed employees," then 22 or 25 year olds could then bring age discrimination lawsuits against the schools because the teams were "hiring" 19 and 19 year olds even though the 22  to 25 year olds were better players. Nonsense. 

brandx

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #131 on: April 18, 2014, 11:41:17 AM »
NCAA president Mark Emmert said Friday that he was happy to take pressure off his organization and its member schools as the governing body's legislative council voted earlier this week to eliminate all previous restrictions on food for athletes.

"The biggest problem was, the NCAA has historically had all kinds of, I don't know how to describe it [except to say] dumb rules about food," Emmert said on ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike" show. "The infamous one is you can provide between meals a snack, but you can't provide a meal. Well, then you got to define what's the difference between a snack and a meal? So it was literally the case that a bagel was defined as a snack -- unless you put cream cheese on it. Now it becomes a meal. That's absurd."


What is absurd are these comments by Emmert. So they knew these rules were "dumb", but never did anything about them? And the ONLY reason they are doing anything now is because of the union threats.

Calipari is 100% correct.

brandx

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Re: Steve Patterson...finally saying it
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2014, 11:46:21 AM »
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10800648/texas-longhorns-ad-steve-patterson-counters-northwestern-push-players-union

BINGO...sounds like the same things I've been saying...people focusing on the 1% will destroy opportunities for the 400,000+ student athletes out there that have zero chance of doing anything in pro sports.


"The universities, the conferences and the NCAA have done a very poor job of telling our story and we've allowed this story to be created by the sports press to focus on the one-half of 1 percent of the student-athletes that go on to play pro sports. But 99.5 percent of student-athletes would not be in the position they're in without getting a scholarship."

"The difficulty in opening up free-market marketing to the half of the 1 percent is that it would create a competitive balance issue," Patterson said. "It would be easy for Booster X to figure out how'd he'd essentially pay a recruit to come to a school."

The athletic director with the largest budget in the nation said Thursday he doesn't support paying athletes nor a system in which they can market themselves, and doesn't understand the recent quest by some Northwestern football players to unionize.

Patterson went on to say "This is our money and we want to keep it. We are very selective in choosing the players who will make us richer than we ever dreamed possible. We are trying to teach all players the concept of the American Dream. Let someone else do the work so you can enjoy the good life you receive from their efforts".

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #133 on: April 18, 2014, 12:02:10 PM »
NCAA president Mark Emmert said Friday that he was happy to take pressure off his organization and its member schools as the governing body's legislative council voted earlier this week to eliminate all previous restrictions on food for athletes.

"The biggest problem was, the NCAA has historically had all kinds of, I don't know how to describe it [except to say] dumb rules about food," Emmert said on ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike" show. "The infamous one is you can provide between meals a snack, but you can't provide a meal. Well, then you got to define what's the difference between a snack and a meal? So it was literally the case that a bagel was defined as a snack -- unless you put cream cheese on it. Now it becomes a meal. That's absurd."


What is absurd are these comments by Emmert. So they knew these rules were "dumb", but never did anything about them? And the ONLY reason they are doing anything now is because of the union threats.

Calipari is 100% correct.



This in spades.

I'm totally against unions but in this case the can act as an agent of change.

The NCAA is a clusterf**k and northwestern unionizing will continue to keep pressure on them to reform.  Without this pressure they will talk forever about reform and never do it.

LloydMooresLegs

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #134 on: April 18, 2014, 12:16:36 PM »
Indeed.  One of his lies was to say that Napier's comments had nothing to do with the decision re food, as that had been in the works for 2 years.  Please.  It nay well have been inn the workkks for two years, but without the O'Bannon lawsuit, the union movement and statements like Napier's, there still would have been no action.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #135 on: April 18, 2014, 12:25:20 PM »
If Emmert is correct, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job of communicating this to the players.  They do not believe him.  Or more to the point, the student-athletes value scholarships and the insurance the NCAA offers differently than Emmert and see a much lower value than he assigns.  That is why they are organizing.

If Emmert is wrong, he should be fired.  In this case he is offering an incorrect view of the world.



LOL.  All it takes it a bunch of dolts talking into the ears of student athletes to say the world is against you and that's who they are going to believe.  I can think of a few athletes that listened to the wrong people and thought they were going to get drafted.  I mean, are you serious?

There is an entire victim culture out there that feels the man is against these guys and they aren't going to believe anything.  Look at how many people in this very thread have been so cavalier with the facts and have no damn clue what they are talking about.

How many people in this thread insisted players couldn't get jobs?  They can.  How many people in this thread said these kids need insurance?  They already have it.  Etc, etc.  It's not Emmert's job to make people smart or attentive.  He oversees an association, he can't touch 450,000 student athletes individually.  They certainly message to these kids about the benefits, etc, but color be amazingly shocked that a bunch of 18 to 22 year old kids didn't pay enough damn attention.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Steve Patterson...finally saying it
« Reply #136 on: April 18, 2014, 12:25:55 PM »
The athletic director with the largest budget in the nation said Thursday he doesn't support paying athletes nor a system in which they can market themselves, and doesn't understand the recent quest by some Northwestern football players to unionize.

Patterson went on to say "This is our money and we want to keep it. We are very selective in choosing the players who will make us richer than we ever dreamed possible. We are trying to teach all players the concept of the American Dream. Let someone else do the work so you can enjoy the good life you receive from their efforts".

Cute....glad you used teal, but I suspect you believe every word of it.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #137 on: April 18, 2014, 12:27:51 PM »
I heard most of the interview, and he did a good job in trying to get the NCAA back in control of the story (goes to the point below about him being fired for letting the narrative go so wrong for so long), but he also misdirected a bunch (I know,--   :o :o ) and flat out lied on several points, including stating that if the players were "deemed employees," then 22 or 25 year olds could then bring age discrimination lawsuits against the schools because the teams were "hiring" 19 and 19 year olds even though the 22  to 25 year olds were better players. Nonsense. 

Not nonsense actually.  That opinion by SOME legal experts has already been brought up.  Now, will it hold water, who knows, but like anything with legal questions you can line up a bunch of lawyers and some will say yes and some will say no to the exact same issue.  What he is mentioning was brought up by several legal experts on the unionization \ employee status a few weeks ago as a potential risk.  I'll try to find the article.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #138 on: April 18, 2014, 12:30:33 PM »

What is absurd are these comments by Emmert. So they knew these rules were "dumb", but never did anything about them? And the ONLY reason they are doing anything now is because of the union threats.

Calipari is 100% correct.


And again....they are an association.  The rules are those adopted and approved by the member institutions.  They enforce the rules.  They give guidance on the rules, but if that's what the membership wants, that's what was approved.  The NCAA, unlike our wonderful gov't, doesn't get to decide what to enforce and what it deems as lawful on any given day or depending on what constituency you are coddling for money and votes.  No, they have to enforce the rules the membership has voted in.

Don't like the rules, introduce legislation at the NCAA membership meetings to change it.  Ask this question, what has Calipari and Kentucky done on this front to introduce legislation for change?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #139 on: April 18, 2014, 12:35:20 PM »
Indeed.  One of his lies was to say that Napier's comments had nothing to do with the decision re food, as that had been in the works for 2 years.  Please.  It nay well have been inn the workkks for two years, but without the O'Bannon lawsuit, the union movement and statements like Napier's, there still would have been no action.

Napiers comments were absolutely absurd.  Off the hook absurd.  He says he was going to be starving, what a disservice to people in this world that truly do.  Embarrassing. 

The NCAA is stuck having to enforce some of this stupidity, but as we all know too well in this country, you can't legislate morality and you certainly can legislate stupidity.  The member schools do that, the NCAA enforces it.

"We wind up having to enforce the stupid rule, which means you have to have someone watching if someone is putting cream cheese on a bagel," Emmert said.

"The notion that schools might compete by offering better quality food, that's not inherently a bad thing," Emmert said. "So let's compete over who can provide the best nutrition for a student-athlete. We compete over who can give them the best locker room. I'd rather they compete over who can give them the best nutrition. So will there be competition around that, I'm sure there will be, but I don't think that's a bad thing."

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #140 on: April 18, 2014, 12:36:35 PM »
This in spades.

I'm totally against unions but in this case the can act as an agent of change.

The NCAA is a clusterf**k and northwestern unionizing will continue to keep pressure on them to reform.  Without this pressure they will talk forever about reform and never do it.

We'll see if they unionize...you may be counting your chickens way too soon.  Furthermore, there are repercussions....you're basically saying enrich the 1% and the other 99% of student athletes go unnatural carnal knowledge themselves.   Careful what you wish for.

MUSF

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #141 on: April 18, 2014, 01:58:18 PM »

Don't like the rules, introduce legislation at the NCAA membership meetings to change it. 

This won't happen unless the athletes get representation at the table. Of course you and the NCAA think denying them representation is completely fine.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #142 on: April 18, 2014, 02:04:35 PM »
Indeed.  One of his lies was to say that Napier's comments had nothing to do with the decision re food, as that had been in the works for 2 years.  Please.  It nay well have been inn the workkks for two years, but without the O'Bannon lawsuit, the union movement and statements like Napier's, there still would have been no action.

+1

The NCAA has dozens of reforms in the works.  And they will stay in the works until something like Napiers comment forces the into action.

Northwestern Union vote this Friday April 25.

brandx

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Re: Steve Patterson...finally saying it
« Reply #143 on: April 18, 2014, 04:06:31 PM »
Cute....glad you used teal, but I suspect you believe every word of it.

You know me too well >:(

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #144 on: April 18, 2014, 04:31:16 PM »
Number of Northwestern players coming out against union is growing.  Hard to know totals, but interesting article. 

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/more-news/number-of-anti-union-players-growing-at-northwestern.html


ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #145 on: April 18, 2014, 04:33:54 PM »
+1

The NCAA has dozens of reforms in the works.  And they will stay in the works until something like Napiers comment forces the into action.

Northwestern Union vote this Friday April 25.

Yup, I honestly dont get how people can support these corporations that exploit these kids. For christ sake let Juan Anderson accept free tickets to a Brewers game without having to get suspended. The hypocrisy is incredible.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #146 on: April 18, 2014, 04:37:49 PM »
Yup, I honestly dont get how people can support these corporations that exploit these kids. For christ sake let Juan Anderson accept free tickets to a Brewers game without having to get suspended. The hypocrisy is incredible.

Those rules are there for a reason....don't like the rules, then change the rules.  The reason, is easy.  Massive abuse in the past where schools that were attached to big market pro teams could give away free tickets and an inducement, creating an unfair advantage for all the schools that don't have access to that.  Say Marquette was in Rhinelander and our biggest rival was in Chicago.  We recruit for the same kids, but the Chicago school gave free tickets to Bears, Bulls, Hawks, Cubs, White Sox games to their recruits and current players.  Anytime, all the time. 

That was the complaint, that's why the rule is there. 


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #147 on: April 18, 2014, 04:42:29 PM »
This won't happen unless the athletes get representation at the table. Of course you and the NCAA think denying them representation is completely fine.

I can only guess by your comments that you don't understand the representation and voice they already have.  So, no, I don't agree with your initial statement that they have no representation.  As with way too much in this thread, the amount of wrong knowledge about their situation is fascinating and revealing at the same time.

Now, is that representation the same.  Nope, but they do have a voice.  SAAC has been around for 25 years is just one area where that representation is manifested. 


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #148 on: April 18, 2014, 04:44:54 PM »
+1

The NCAA has dozens of reforms in the works.  And they will stay in the works until something like Napiers comment forces the into action.

Northwestern Union vote this Friday April 25.

Again, this is just wrong.  Seriously, it would take you probably 5 minutes to go through the reform measurements that are considered each year, voted on, implemented or not implemented.  Each year, all part of the public record.  All there on a website to easily read and follow.

So many flat out falsehoods and staggering lack of knowledge on this topic it is truly amazing.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: WSJ: John Calipari: NCAA Is Crumbling Like the Soviet Union
« Reply #149 on: April 18, 2014, 05:10:12 PM »
Number of Northwestern players coming out against union is growing.  Hard to know totals, but interesting article. 

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/more-news/number-of-anti-union-players-growing-at-northwestern.html

And the unionization movement said if it fails next Friday at Northwestern they move on to Georgia Tech next with others right behind them.  It does not end Friday with a no vote.

And remember if they vote yes, nothing really happens for a year as they only START the process of organizing and wait on its legality as the appeals process continues. 

If they vote yes and the NCAA caves and gives them everything they want, they can later de-certify the union.

This is what I think happens.  NU votes yes, later this summer Georgia Tech votes yes.  The NCAA caves and radically changes the rules.  Then they declare victory and de-certify the union.