Volleyball Thread

[StillAWarrior]

Illinois boys state tournament is in full swing. Really some great volleyball if anyone is interested. Couple of thoughts, there was a regional in the Southwest that was absolutely brutal. Lincoln way east, north, west and central were all in it and they are all incredibly good volleyball schools. They got screwed having to play eachother so early.

Glenbrook South sectional is going to be a fun one. Loyola, New Trier and Glenbrook North are always good and Maine East who has always been a solid volleyball school finally got over the hump and won a regional (congrats dad!) There area lot of talented players in those 4 teams. Don't know if anyone pays attention but if you enjoy the game definitely worth going out for a look. State finals at Hoffman Estates is always a good time as well.

Ohio is well underway too.  Everything moves to Columbus this weekend to wrap things up.  Division II final four is set, and Division I is down to its final 8.

A quick look at my avatar will tell you who I'm rooting for this weekend.  Hoping my son can close out his HS career with a state championship.  They've been ranked No. 1 since the pre-season polls, so I hope they can close it out with two more wins.  Unfortunately, Ohio pre-determines the final four match ups (as opposed to seeding the final four) and Walsh will be playing the team that's been ranked No. 2 all year (and defending state champs) in the semis.  It's a shame those two won't meet in the final.

Go Warriors!

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Ohio is well underway too.  Everything moves to Columbus this weekend to wrap things up.  Division II final four is set, and Division I is down to its final 8.

A quick look at my avatar will tell you who I'm rooting for this weekend.  Hoping my son can close out his HS career with a state championship.  They've been ranked No. 1 since the pre-season polls, so I hope they can close it out with two more wins.  Unfortunately, Ohio pre-determines the final four match ups (as opposed to seeding the final four) and Walsh will be playing the team that's been ranked No. 2 all year (and defending state champs) in the semis.  It's a shame those two won't meet in the final.

Go Warriors!

Illinois doesn't reseed either. I don't mind it cause I always had the mindset that you gotta beat somebody. My big problem for Illinois is how they divide their regionals and sectionals. Like any one of those Lincoln Way teams would have won the sectional of the city schools and OPRF, they just got screwed by having to beat eachother up in the first two rounds.

IHSA is down to 32 teams still. They started late but I also think they have more participating school than Ohio.

[StillAWarrior]

Illinois doesn't reseed either. I don't mind it cause I always had the mindset that you gotta beat somebody. My big problem for Illinois is how they divide their regionals and sectionals. Like any one of those Lincoln Way teams would have won the sectional of the city schools and OPRF, they just got screwed by having to beat eachother up in the first two rounds.

IHSA is down to 32 teams still. They started late but I also think they have more participating school than Ohio.

I agree completely with that, and it's not really the issue that bothers me.  The unfortunate thing is that all year long everyone has known that the two best D2 teams in the state would meet in the semi-finals.  It's a shame that they can't play for the championship.  Of course I'll be eating crow if the winner of that match loses in the final (which I worry about because of the let down after beating the superior opponent in the semis).  No matter what happened, the Champion from the North was going to play the Champion from the West in the semis.  It rotates from year to year.  I'm sure it is to ensure that teams from different areas of the state will play each other, but I think that the natural rise/fall of teams will take care of that over time.  They go to the trouble of ranking the teams.  I wish they'd seed them in the tournament. 

Because Ohio starts with regional tournaments, there is also the problem you mentioned where good teams in strong regions get knocked out early.  In D1 the top three teams in Ohio are in the South, so one of them (the defending champs) didn't even make the final eight.  That's a shame, but its harder to fix than re-seeding the final four.  There are pretty compelling reasons to use the regional system until the final four (final 8 for D1).

[wadesworld]

Wisconsin (and I'm sure very state in every sport) also faces the stacked sectionals vs. weak sectionals and a poor team making it to State while a top team goes home in a Regional Semifinal (and Final).  But the WIAA has a really good system once it gets to the State tournament.  The 8 coaches whose teams make it to State have a conference call and they seed the top 4 teams.  After the top 4 teams (and their seed) are determined, they do random drawings of the other 4 teams to see first round matchups.  This way it's not entirely seeded from 1-8, but it keeps the top 2 teams in years where there are a clear #1 and #2 from facing off in a State quarterfinal or even semifinal.

As far as seeding goes and whether it's a big deal or not, it really can be.  The amount of ease in which 1 team has on their path to the Finals can make the difference as to whether or not they're fresh or spent in the Finals.  Matchups can also play a huge role.  Maybe you're the 1 seed but you match up really poorly with the 3 seed but really well with the 4 seed.  Or the 4 seed matches up really well with the 1 seed while the 2 seed has no chance against the 1 seed.  If it's just a random draw and the 2 ends up playing the 1 in the semis despite being better all year than the 4, then the 2 seed's season is done for all intents and purposes, whereas if it goes by seed the 4 might knock the 1 out and open up the opportunity for the 2 seed to win it all.

And as StillAWarrior kind of alludes to, it's just a better atmosphere when the 2 best teams meet in the Finals and not before then.  A lot of people will skip the Finals if the consensus is that the Finals was already played before the actual Finals.  Take the Novotny/Olson/Hutz 16s year.  Our Lightning team lost a total of 1 match to a 16s team that season, and that came against defending National Champion Balboa Bay.  We had also beat Balboa that season, so we were 1-1 against them.  We didn't drop a single set in any of the 3 Nationals qualifiers we were in.  We played up in a college club tournament and won the whole thing.  We played up in as many 18s tournaments as we could and beat 2 different 18s teams that ended up taking top 10 at Nationals for 18s...and we were a 16s team.  We lost a total of 5 SETS to 16s or 17s teams the entire season, and lost a total of 3 matches all year (1 to Balboa, 1 to SPRI 18 1s, and 1 to D1 18 1s, having beaten SPRI 18 1s 1 other time and Ultimate 18 1s).  Yet somehow because we finished 2nd in the SCVA Tournament to Balboa they seeded us...not 2 (understandable, Balboa was the defending champs, and they had beat us in the SCVA Tourney)...but FOURTH.  Which meant that if for the first 3 days and 1st match of day 4 both us and them held our seeds we'd meet them in the Semis.  Sure enough neither of us lost a match up until the National Semifinals.  They had us on court 2, the court right on the other side of the stadium seating for championship court.  The crowd for that match was shoulder to shoulder and went up to all the surrounding courts.  There were people standing on the top row of the championship court just so they could look down on court 2 to watch the match.


These were people looking away from the championship court onto our court for the semifinals against Balboa Bay.


And this was just behind 1 of the end lines for court 2.  It was like that around the entire court.

Then after we beat Balboa 22-25, 25-23, 15-12, we went on to play Ultimate in the Finals, a team we had played 5 times that year and lost a total of 1 set to (while we were playing horribly at the SCVA Tourney and still made the finals).  Everyone knew what the result would be, and it reflected in the crowd turnout, with basically just parents and players of the 2 clubs.



That was 1 side of the crowd for the 25-17, 25-13 win.  Horrible job of seeding the tournament and it took a lot of excitement away from the Finals, which is unfortunate because the Semifinals are played while other age groups are still playing pool play matches (for example, our 17s team with my brother on it couldn't watch our match against Balboa because they had their own match going on).  The Finals are played after all of the Open play is done for the day, and everyone can go watch it if they want.  Unfortunately, not many people had the desire to watch what, as one of our players said after we won, "felt like we just won another Midwest qualifier."

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Was that the Ultimate from Illinois? If so, I'm kinda surprised they were there. Adversity and those Puerto Rican 16s teams were always better than Ultimate in my opinion.

[wadesworld]

Was that the Ultimate from Illinois? If so, I'm kinda surprised they were there. Adversity and those Puerto Rican 16s teams were always better than Ultimate in my opinion.

Yes. Ultimate has become the dominant team in the Midwest, which is funny because they are so fundamentally bad. They finish top 5 at just about every age group every year, but it's all because they get to pick which kids they want and the rest split up what's left over. They just physically dominate. 2 years ago they were up like 9-2 in the 3rd set of the 18s national championship...and lost 15-13. Horrible. But I'm glad. Classless club. Parents, players, and coaches alike are all obnoxious jerks. And they blatantly lie about their accomplishments. After we beat them in the National title they were throwing around the line that they "finished higher than any Midwest club" at every age group at Nationals." It was news to everyone that you could finish higher than the club you lost to in the National title. With all their success I'm pretty sure they have never won a title.  And they very rarely send kids to division 1 schools other than their middles, who colleges will take because it's the least skilled position.  A lot of kids from their top teams end up at Carthage College.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yes. Ultimate has become the dominant team in the Midwest, which is funny because they are so fundamentally bad. They finish top 5 at just about every age group every year, but it's all because they get to pick which kids they want and the rest split up what's left over. They just physically dominate. 2 years ago they were up like 9-2 in the 3rd set of the 18s national championship...and lost 15-13. Horrible. But I'm glad. Classless club. Parents, players, and coaches alike are all obnoxious jerks. And they blatantly lie about their accomplishments. After we beat them in the National title they were throwing around the line that they "finished higher than any Midwest club" at every age group at Nationals." It was news to everyone that you could finish higher than the club you lost to in the National title. With all their success I'm pretty sure they have never won a title.  And they very rarely send kids to division 1 schools other than their middles, who colleges will take because it's the least skilled position.  A lot of kids from their top teams end up at Carthage College.

I know the parents your talking about. It's all of those north shore schools. They're awful at their high school games too, have that sense of entitlement. My dad coached two players who played for ultimate, they graduated back in 2008, although they were really nice kids. The middle didn't play in college and the right side played for, you guessed it, Carthage.

[StillAWarrior]

I know the parents your talking about. It's all of those north shore schools. They're awful at their high school games too, have that sense of entitlement. My dad coached two players who played for ultimate, they graduated back in 2008, although they were really nice kids. The middle didn't play in college and the right side played for, you guessed it, Carthage.

I'm much more familiar with the girls side of things, but it is interesting to see how different clubs develop and attract certain personalities.  Some clubs are great with wonderful parents and kids.  Some are...well...not so much.

It's also interesting how different areas of the country are so different.  Biggest example:  a lot of Texas teams switch sides after each set, and they get really pissed if you don't give up your seat when they move over.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Got ousted by New Trier tonight. Oh well, didn't expect to win but Maine East hung tough almost pushed it to a g3rd game. NT setter is really good going to Irvine next year.

[wadesworld]

Got ousted by New Trier tonight. Oh well, didn't expect to win but Maine East hung tough almost pushed it to a g3rd game. NT setter is really good going to Irvine next year.

Dante?  Ehh.  He's good for a high school guy for sure, but I would be shocked if he contributed much at Irvine (then again, I thought the same exact thing about Irvine's setter when he was playing 17s and now he's starting for them, but setter has been the absolute achilles heal to that team for the past 2 seasons, so maybe there was some truth to my thinking).  The club team I coached last year (decent but far, far from great...finished 10th at Nationals) completely dominated his Vortex team and it was 100% because he ran the most predictable and horribly spread offense I've ever seen.  I have no idea how he thought he was setting a good offense, and am shocked his coach wouldn't fix this.  In rotation 4 where usually the MB and front row S stack all the way to the left so the OH can pass and swing on the left when he's front right Dante would have his OH pass right and sing from the right while having his MB hit a standard middle 1.  So essentially he was bringing all 3 front row players into about 12 feet of the court, and he was baffled that we continued to shut down his offense.  His location is fine but his decision making are terrible and he tries to be way, way too offensive when it comes to attack attempts from the setter.

[wadesworld]

I know the parents your talking about. It's all of those north shore schools. They're awful at their high school games too, have that sense of entitlement. My dad coached two players who played for ultimate, they graduated back in 2008, although they were really nice kids. The middle didn't play in college and the right side played for, you guessed it, Carthage.

A sense of entitlement is exactly right.  The next year at 17s we went into day 3 of Nationals hanging onto the overall #1 seed (despite losing a match on day 2...the team we lost to then lost to someone else in our pool who we beat, and we won the 3 team tiebreak based on set record) with SCVC and Ultimate as the other 2 teams in our pool.  By day 3 it is down to 12 teams that have a chance to still win the title, with 4 pools of 3 teams.  The top 2 teams in each pool move on to the quarterfinals and the bottom team of each pool drop down to a 4 team Silver bracket.  So essentially if you go 1-1 on day 3 you in theory should move on to the quarterfinals, but worst case there's a 3 way tie and the 1 seed is determined by game record (and the point ratio if that's tied) and the 2 and 3 seeds then play a playoff to take 2nd and move into Gold.  The schedule is the 1 seed plays the 3 seed first, then the 2 and 3 seeds play, and then the 1 and 2 seeds play.  We were the 1 in the pool, Ultimate the 2, and SCVC the 3.  We smoked SCVC in the first match of the pool and then SCVC beat Ultimate in a close 3 set match.  We won the first set against Ultimate, so since we would've all been 1-1 if we lost the next 2 sets we had already locked up the 1 seed and a quarterfinal appearance since we would've been 3-2 in sets while Ultimate would've been 3-3 and SCVC 2-3, and Ultimate did then win the 2nd set against us and led almost the entire 3rd set before we snuck it out (we were playing really bad volleyball relative to what we could have really that entire year).  Ultimate brought basically their entire club over to the court to cheer them on in that match along with a ton of parents and they were definitely feeling a win coming in the middle of that 3rd set.  After we pulled out the win there were multiple parents who came up to Will and I and complained that we didn't just let them win the match after we won the 1st set since we had locked up the 1 seed so that they could have a Playoff with SCVC for a chance to get into Gold, and it wasn't like a "Haha aww we wish you would've just let us win, but congrats" it was a "Are you kidding me?  How can you not let us win that match?"  It was truthfully insulting that they'd even think of saying that out loud to us.

[wadesworld]

By the way the World League is going on right now and NBC Sports Network is showing some of the USA Men's team's matches. They showed their 2 matches vs. Iran (both wins in 4 sets at USC) on Sunday and play Russia (defending Olympic champions) at Long Beach State this weekend. One of those matches will be shown next Tuesday on NBCSN at 7:00 PM Central Time (I believe, double check that).

They then play at the Sears Center in Hoffman Estates, IL against Poland (defending World Champions, while USA is the defending World League champion) the following weekend, June 12 and 13 at 7:00 PM. Not sure if those will be televised at all. If you can make the matches I highly recommend going and getting the best seats possible. The speed of the game from up close is truly unbelievable and the size of the players is shocking (not just the height, these guys are built). They played 2 World League matches 2 summers ago in Reno while the Boys Junior National Championships were going on and we bought tickets really early knowing we'd be there and had great seats. Worth every penny. The atmosphere is incredible too. It is like a Champions League soccer game. It'll be 80% Poland fans and they will be waving giant flags, setting off horns and other noise makers, screaming, dancing, and just having a blast. Definitely a much different atmosphere than American volleyball.

As far as that team goes right now they are young and the future is bright. They're ranked #5 in the world right now but that will only get better. Taylor Sander graduated from BYU in May 2014 and his first international competition was the World League, in which he won MVP. Micah Christenson set the team having just finished his junior year at USC. Those 2 are back and starting again. Max Holt is a "veteran" at 28 and he has turned a corner. I don't see how anyone in the world could be playing the MB position any better than he is right now. David Smith is another veteran at the MB position and he's a solid but not spectacular guy. Doesn't get many opportunities offensively but blocks well for being "undersized" at 6'8". Could see Olson or Jendryk in there come the Olympics (some would say Avrill from Hawaii but I don't see his game translating well to the international level). Depending on what the 3rd pin hitter brings, Matt Anderson is another veteran at 28 and when Murphy Troy (RS) is playing well enough (unfortunately not very often) that Anderson can play on the left there's nobody in the world that's better. He left PSU after his junior year to play for the National team and was given a $1 million+ contract to play in Russia (unheard of money in men's volleyball). If Troy isn't getting the job done on the right (his defense is horrible and below average blocker for a right side, plus his out of system offense is below average which is huge for a RS, but he does serve well and can tank on balls in system) Anderson then moves to the right (and they often shift their serve reception around so he can still pass) and Aaron Russel, who just graduated from PSU in May, starts on the OH. He had a huge first weekend, starting both matches and looking pretty good. Defensively he is still adjusting to the speed of the game at this level but he looks like he'll be a contributor for a while. Thomas Jaeshke is also on the roster, so they have 3 players each one year apart who can all contribute in big ways, with the oldest being 23. Plus there's Anderson. A good logjam to have at the most important position in volleyball. Christenson is an all around stud at setter. Erik Shoji starts at libero as a 25 year old and is steady but not spectacular.

If the USA can find a good enough RS to keep Anderson on the left there's no reason they couldn't win every big world event. I think you can find slight upgrades at the MB2 and even L positions but those aren't holes on the team by any means. And Anderson is an outstanding RS, but he's the most dominant player in the world on the left, so you almost have to find a way to keep him out there even if it means putting Troy on the right despite him not being as good overall as Sander, Russel, or Jaeshke, none of which I think can play on the right.

Definitely a fun time for USA Men's volleyball. Possibly the most talent available in the USA since Marv Dunphy became the only coach to win each major world event in his quad in the 1980s.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Micah is so much fun to watch. Incredible hands and a really good/deceptive serve.

[wadesworld]

For those interested, USA men's lost to Brazil in 4 sets last night, beat France in 4 sets today, and France beat Brazil in 4 sets earlier.  USA had the best point ratio, France the 2nd best, and Brazil the 3rd, so the host Brazil gets bounced and USA and France move on to the World League Finals.

Also, the Pan Am games are going on and USA's men's Pan Am team will play on ESPN at some point on Sunday I was told (they weren't sure what time).  They play at 3:30 against Puerto Rico today and that will be show on ESPN3.  This is the roster 1 step below the National team and is typically made up of the best college volleyball players in the country.  Conrad Kaminski is an MUHS alum and going into his senior year at Stanford and made the roster.  He'll be a reserve MB.  Crazy what kind of progress he has made.  He was on North Shore 16-2s team his 16s year (so the 3rd best team in the state of Wisconsin, as Lightning won Nationals that year - 2010 - and North Shore 1s were obviously better than their 2s), made Lightning 17s the next year and was the 3rd middle, then took the starting middle spot for Lightning 18s the following year (they won Nationals again that year), got into Stanford for academics and decided to play volleyball, and by his sophomore year he was the leader in hitting percentage in the MPSF.  Couldn't happen to a better kid.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Marquette has surprisingly come out the gates firing. Beat a very good Dayton squad and 21st ranked Iowa St. Taylor Louis has filled in incredibly for Autumn Bailey. (who hasn't even gotten in a match for Michigan St) Sure helps though when you have a good setter though, which is what MU was desperately missing last year.

[bradley center bat]

3-0 weekend for MU.
Beat North Dakota, who had a school record 26 wins last year. Dayton won the Atlantic 10 and beat #21 Iowa State in front of almost 3,000 fans in Ames, Iowa.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

3-0 weekend for MU.
Beat North Dakota, who had a school record 26 wins last year. Dayton won the Atlantic 10 and beat #21 Iowa State in front of almost 3,000 fans in Ames, Iowa.

It's nice when you have a competent setter to run the offense. No offense to Mary, she's such a nice person but just not a good enough setter. Blaiser is a stud.

[StillAWarrior]

I was surprised to see Marquette fall to St. John's last night.  I think St. John's might be a team on the rise.  I have it on good authority that they offered a pretty solid 2017 setter last weekend.   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Kind of surprised MU made the tournament. Apparently Marquette has 3 top 100 recruits for next year and 2 are from Wisconsin.

Wade, you familiar with the recruiting scene for women's volleyball in Wisconsin at all? How good are they if you've seen them.

[wadesworld]

Kind of surprised MU made the tournament. Apparently Marquette has 3 top 100 recruits for next year and 2 are from Wisconsin.

Wade, you familiar with the recruiting scene for women's volleyball in Wisconsin at all? How good are they if you've seen them.

I am not familiar with the girls recruiting scene at all.  StillAWarrior might not necessarily know anything about the Marquette commits, but he may have just some general knowledge on girls college recruiting that I would not.  One of (maybe the only?) the women's team's volunteer assistant(s) used to coach at Lightning/currently coaches the Sting boys 18s team (they added a program when Lightning decided to shut down, and their 18s team should be solid...it's a group that took 1st at 13s, 5th at 14s, 3rd at 15s, and 9th at 16s with Lightning and then took 5th at 17s in their first year with Sting last year...#1 recruit in the country who unfortunately goes to Watertown High School - they don't have a boys volleyball program.  A legit 7' who has had a starting college level block since he was 16...was the only 17 year old to make the Youth National team 2 summers ago and started for that team, then made it again this past summer and was named the best blocker for the international tournament.  Heading to UC Irvine, where his sister is married to the head coach.  His sister played at Iowa State and his other sister is currently a sophomore playing at Illinois.  They also have a 6'8" RS who UCLA and other West Coast schools really wanted, but he chose Ball State...woof).  I'll have to see what he says about MU's incoming recruiting class.

[StillAWarrior]

I am not familiar with the girls recruiting scene at all.  StillAWarrior might not necessarily know anything about the Marquette commits, but he may have just some general knowledge on girls college recruiting that I would not.

Here's what I found.  Four recruits:

Allie Barber - 6'4" MB (Cedarburg, WI) (Milwaukee Sting)

• PrepVB Senior Ace (No. 45)
• PrepVB Club All-American (1st Team)
• Sting finished season ranked No. 7 in PrepVB rankings
• Sting finished 5th at AAU Nationals
• All-American at AAU Nationals

Madeline Mosher - 6'0" OH (Waterloo, WI) (Milwaukee Sting)

• PrepVB Senior Ace (No. 85)
• One of 41 finalists for PrepVB National Junior of the year
• Sting finished season ranked No. 7 in PrepVB rankings
• Sting finished 5th at AAU Nationals

Taylor Murata - 5'5" L (Arlington, TX) (TAV)

• PrepVB Senior Ace (101-250)
• TAV finished season ranked No. 3 in PrepVB rankings
• TAV finished 3rd at USAV Nationals

Lauren Speckman - 5'10" S (San Jose, CA) (Vision)

• PrepVB Senior Ace (No. 75)
• Played 18s in 2015
• Vision finished season ranked No. 6 in PrepVB rankings
• Vision finished 14th at USAV Nationals

I focused on PrepVB because I figured it's harder to get at because it's behind a paywall.  I'm sure most of them have a bunch of honors based on HS ball in their home states...but I figured others could find that as easily as I can.

I spend the vast majority of my time watching the class of 2017, and not 2016, so I don't have any first-hand knowledge of these girls (although the 17s team (i.e., 2016) from my daughter's club did win AAU Nationals, knocking Milwaukee Sting out of that tournament).  The 2017 MB from Stl CYC is a very nice player.  I would have loved for my daughter to have a shot at Marquette, but she was the wrong year for them so never even got out of the gate.  It's looking like she might have a chance to play at the Al once a year, but sadly not 15-20 times.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Taylor Louis broke Autumn Bailey's single season kill record today. Not going to lie, I am very surprised that she turned out to be a very good player. Must have worked extremely hard from high school to college. Good for her. Go Vikings.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Looks like Minnesota knocked off the ladies.  MU won the first match against UNI a few days ago, and then lost to Minnesota in 3 straight yesterday. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Wow. Shane Davis leaving the Loyola job for the Northwestern women's team. Just, wow.

[wadesworld]

Wow. Shane Davis leaving the Loyola job for the Northwestern women's team. Just, wow.

Yup.  Smart career move.  Will be interesting to see how he does on the woman's side.  Obviously he wanted to stay in the area so limited options, but that'll be a tough place to have success.