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Author Topic: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match  (Read 242729 times)

NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #525 on: August 28, 2014, 03:22:24 PM »

I wouldn't mind trying it.  KRod is a disaster waiting to happen.



Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #526 on: August 28, 2014, 03:24:00 PM »
Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.

To put it simply, yes.  I am suggesting just that.
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GGGG

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #527 on: August 28, 2014, 03:26:40 PM »
Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.


I AM PANICKING!!!!! 

brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #528 on: August 28, 2014, 05:40:36 PM »

A changeup specialist who throws an 87 MPH fastball isn't a good recipe for a closer.  A fastball pitcher who throws 100 MPH, even if he struggles to throw a second pitch consistently and may struggle with his location at times, is what you typically see in a successful closer (Jeffress).  Batters have such a short amount of time to determine whether they should swing or not that they swing at a lot of balls anyways.  I'd love to see Jeffress get a chance.  I realize he also gave up a run last night, but his ERA is still below 1.00.


How can anyone argue your points?

What are they gonna do - bring up a stiff like Trevor Hoffman who struggled to hit 87 mph? Or maybe Kyle Farnsworth, who threw 98-100, and is one of the great closers of all time?

96-98 means absolutely nothing unless there is late movement on the ball and you are able to locate it properly. Farnsworth threw over 100 at times and was regularly 96-99, but his ERA in his 16+ years is almost 4.50.

Big league hitters feast on hard stuff in the upper 90's if it is coming in straight.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #529 on: August 28, 2014, 05:49:27 PM »

I AM PANICKING!!!!! 

I'm not panicking one bit, I'm just thinking logically about this.  Since posting a 0.00 ERA with 15 saves in 15 opportunities and only giving up 7 hits in the first month and a half of the season, KRod has blown 5 saves and saved 24 games while giving up 20 earned runs and 37 hits in the last 3 1/2 months.  Since starting out the year with 15 straight saves and having a 0.00 ERA, he has given up 20 earned runs in 40 innings.  That's a 4.50 ERA from your closer, who tops out at 87 MPH.  He has given up 12 home runs in 40 innings.  Those numbers are horrendous from a closer.  You're really willing to sit back and watch him blow leads when you have a chance to push your divisional lead up?  Fine.  I personally am not.  I have seen 1 divisional title in my 25 year life so far, and I would prefer that my closer doesn't keep me from seeing a second.  I'm not willing to say, "Well he's been there before and he has a ton of career saves, so why not just keep running him out there to watch him blow games?"  Otherwise we should just go sign Eric Gagne and Trevor Hoffman while we're at it.

He had a great start to the year, but like I said, hitters started to realize that a pitch that started out low in the zone was going to be a changeup that dropped out of the zone and they now wait to get ahead in the count and get a fastball up in the zone and tee off on it.

Meanwhile, we have a guy who was called up at the end of July and has given up 2 earned runs in 14.2 innings for a roughly 1.33 ERA.  He has given up 14 hits but 0 home runs.  The biggest knock on him is his command and he has just 3 walks in 14.2 innings with 9 Ks.  Oh and he hits triple digits with his fastball.  I don't care if he's struggled in the past or been up and down from the minors.  So has Mike Fiers and I have no problem seeing him go out to take the mound every 5th day for the Brewers.  Carlos Gomez was up and down and in and out of a platoon for his entire career up until this year.  So what?  I'll take this year's results as an indicator of what a player can do rather than looking at the previous five.  The previous five years do nothing for me this year.
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wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #530 on: August 28, 2014, 05:51:36 PM »
How can anyone argue your points?

What are they gonna do - bring up a stiff like Trevor Hoffman who struggled to hit 87 mph? Or maybe Kyle Farnsworth, who threw 98-100, and is one of the great closers of all time?

96-98 means absolutely nothing unless there is late movement on the ball and you are able to locate it properly. Farnsworth threw over 100 at times and was regularly 96-99, but his ERA in his 16+ years is almost 4.50.

Big league hitters feast on hard stuff in the upper 90's if it is coming in straight.

The funny thing is that that's exactly what KRod's ERA is since the first month and a half of the season when he hadn't given up an earned run.  So like I said, players have adjusted.  Yes, you can be successful throwing the changeup.  But hitters have adjusted and KRod is not successful throwing it.  So there's a problem.  I guess Brewers fans are fine just watching him continue to blow saves and allow base runners.  Maybe I'm the only one who likes to see leads held up at the end of games.
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brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #531 on: August 28, 2014, 06:00:27 PM »
The funny thing is that that's exactly what KRod's ERA is since the first month and a half of the season when he hadn't given up an earned run.  So like I said, players have adjusted.  Yes, you can be successful throwing the changeup.  But hitters have adjusted and KRod is not successful throwing it.  So there's a problem.  I guess Brewers fans are fine just watching him continue to blow saves and allow base runners.  Maybe I'm the only one who likes to see leads held up at the end of games.

So the games where he pitched well don't count.

And, by the way, Jeffress' ERA this year is 3.00 (not the 1.33 that you claim).

hairy worthen

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #532 on: August 28, 2014, 06:38:03 PM »
I doubt Roenicke would pull Krod its not his m.o.

Krod has given up way too many home runs lately. He has given up runs but he has still been getting the save, which covers the stink of his performance. Last night was a brutal loss. Krod is a disaster waiting to happen, I thought this even early in the season. I don't think jeffress is the answer. He is an ideal 8th inning guy.  Would like to see Fiers as 5th starter and nelson as closer. Not sure nelson is cut out for closer though and I don't think Roenicke would pull the trigger.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #533 on: August 28, 2014, 07:00:29 PM »
So the games where he pitched well don't count.

And, by the way, Jeffress' ERA this year is 3.00 (not the 1.33 that you claim).

So you think he's pitching just as well as he was in the first month of the season?  That's interesting.  It's not like I'm taking out his good games recently.  I'm saying he's not pitching the same he was when he started the year with 15 straight saves.  He's just flat out not pitching nearly as well as he was early in the year.  If you think otherwise then there's not much to argue about, you're just flat out wrong.  It'd be like saying JJ Hardy was the best SS in the MLB at the end of September when he had hit .310 with 15 homers from April through the end of June and then .110 with 1 homer from that point until the end of September.

And again, since being called up with the Brewers, his ERA is 1.33.  Try reading what I said first.  2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called up in July.  And if you really think that his appearance from March 31 with Toronto is a good indicator of what he is bringing to the table now on August 28 then so be it.  But aside from that game (3 earned runs in 1 inning, again 5 months ago, and again with a different ball club) he has given up 3 earned runs in 17 innings this season (and 2 in 14 2/3 with Milwaukee).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 10:14:07 PM by HoldTheMayo »
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NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #534 on: August 28, 2014, 09:44:40 PM »


And again, since being called back up, his ERA is 1.33.  Try reading what I said first.  2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called back up in July.

Yep, and his history and regression to the mean would suggest there is no way he will continue to pitch that way. So again if you are going to risk blown saves, which I would hope you would agree is the case in either scenario, would you rather go down with a guy who hasn't done it before or one of the best all time? I get what your saying, I just think keeping things the same is currently the lesser if two evils overall.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #535 on: August 28, 2014, 10:09:10 PM »
Yep, and his history and regression to the mean would suggest there is no way he will continue to pitch that way. So again if you are going to risk blown saves, which I would hope you would agree is the case in either scenario, would you rather go down with a guy who hasn't done it before or one of the best all time? I get what your saying, I just think keeping things the same is currently the lesser if two evils overall.

I'm not naive enough to think that Jeremy Jeffress is the long term solution to closer or would be the best closer in baseball if given the opportunity.  I also understand that guys who throw hard and straight get knocked around in the big leagues.  But guys who throw 100 and straight don't get knocked around.  There is a big difference between 94 and straight and 100 and straight.  Aroldis Chapman throws straight but has a lot of success because 100 MPH is just that much faster than anybody else really throws.  While Jeffress has always thrown hard, he is throwing the ball harder than he ever has.  He is also only 26 years old, so while yes he has been up and down, been through some injuries, and been far from consistent, it's not like he's some 35 year old career journeyman.  26 isn't overly young, but it also isn't nearly too old to figure things out.  Again, long term do I think we approach the closer spot like we've got our guy with Jeffress?  No.  But for the end of this season I'm willing to go with a guy who is pitching well and improving rather than a guy who was as hot as hot can be to start the year using all smoke and mirrors but pitching bad for the past 2 months.  KRod just simply isn't that good when hitters aren't swinging at balls, which they have figured out.  Throughout the entire season it seems as though even when he is getting the save he is letting 2 guys get on before recording the save.  Just playing with fire far too often for my liking.

Even if Jeffress does regress to the mean, I don't see his ERA rising above a 4.50 ERA, and if for no other reason than the fact that a closer can absolutely not afford to give up the long ball, I'd give Jeffress a shot at it.  12 home runs in the last 40 innings is way too many from any pitcher, but especially from your closer.  That cannot happen.
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brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #536 on: August 28, 2014, 10:53:16 PM »

And again, since being called up with the Brewers, his ERA is 1.33.  Try reading what I said first.  2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called up in July.  And if you really think that his appearance from March 31 with Toronto is a good indicator of what he is bringing to the table now on August 28 then so be it.  But aside from that game (3 earned runs in 1 inning, again 5 months ago, and again with a different ball club) he has given up 3 earned runs in 17 innings this season (and 2 in 14 2/3 with Milwaukee).

14.2 innings....that is what you consider a fair sample size?

And if you throw out the games where KRod gave up any runs, His ERA is 0.00


brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #537 on: August 28, 2014, 11:06:25 PM »
There is a big difference between 94 and straight and 100 and straight.  Aroldis Chapman throws straight but has a lot of success because 100 MPH is just that much faster than anybody else really throws. 


He has a lot of success because he has a devastating slider. He only throws his fastball about 60% of the time. While his fastball is hard to hit, the swing-and-miss rate for his slider is much higher.


wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #538 on: August 29, 2014, 07:09:25 AM »
14.2 innings....that is what you consider a fair sample size?

And if you throw out the games where KRod gave up any runs, His ERA is 0.00



It's the ONLY fair sample you can take. Again, you really are going to take his outing from when he was on the Toronto Blue Jays from 5 months ago and say, "See, the guy can't pitch!" Since joining the Brewers he has given up 2 earned runs in 14.2 innings. I don't know why you would look at anything else. Makes no sense. Should we look at Braun's career numbers and say he's still the best player in baseball despite hitting .280 with 20 homers this year since he can't take PEDs anymore?

And again, if you think KRod is pitching just as well as he was for the first month and a half then fine. He plain and simply isn't, but if you want to wrongly opine that then feel free. I'm not picking 1 game from this week and taking it out, 2 from last week, etc. Since the 2nd month of the season KRod has not pitched well. If you think magically hitters will start to swing at his change ups out of the zone again then again, that's your right to think that. I have my doubts that that's going to be happening, but hey, I've been wrong before. So yeah the last 3 1/2 months where (including all outings) he has a 4.50 ERA are not a good indicator of how he is pitching right now. The 0.00 ERA from the start of the year is what really matters. Just like Will Smith is still the best releiver in baseball because he couldn't be bit 4 months ago...
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NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #539 on: August 29, 2014, 08:25:50 AM »
So I guess the question becomes do you think he is going to get worse the rest of the way? What evidence is there to support that? The trending is nowhere near is clear as you make it out to be. His performance the past 4 months has actually been quite consistent. ERA will obviously move considerably within a month for a closer with limited innings with a bad outing or two, but looking at some of the key numbers you point to...

Month, ERA, HR, SV, BS

May, 5.73, 3, 4, 2
June, 2.35, 3, 10, 1
July, 6.48, 3, 4, 1
Aug, 2.89, 3, 9, 1

So, taking April out as you prefer, his best months have been 1) June 2) August 3) July 3A) May. That is who he is. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that there has been some sort of downward trend line throughout the season, as opposed to the normal ups and downs that make season averages season averages. If the rest of the team plays the same, we can likely expect roughly his season averages for Sept...

3-3.50 ERA, 3 HR, 8 SV, 1 BS

So with the most pressure packed games of the season yet to be played, I'll sign up for what we can reasonably expect for Sept. right now, vs. taking a chance on a guy who throws hard, but has never closed, and more than likely would weaken both the 8th and 9th innings.

I assure you Doug Melvin and RR have been and will continue to do the math, and will not panic or overreact as you seem all to eager to do.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:33:39 AM by NavinRJohnson »

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #540 on: August 29, 2014, 08:42:08 AM »
So I guess the question becomes do you think he is going to get worse the rest of the way? What evidence is there to support that? The trending is nowhere near is clear as you make it out to be. His performance the past 4 months has actually been quite consistent. ERA will obviously move considerably within a month for a closer with limited innings with a bad outing or two, but looking at some of the key numbers you point to...

Month, ERA, HR, SV, BS

May, 5.73, 3, 4, 2
June, 2.35, 3, 10, 1
July, 6.48, 3, 4, 1
Aug, 2.89, 3, 9, 1

So, taking April out as you prefer, his best months have been 1) June 2) August 3) July 3A) May. That is who he is. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that there has been some sort of downward trend line throughout the season, as opposed to the normal ups and downs that make season averages season averages. If the rest of the team plays the same, we can likely expect roughly his season averages for Sept...

3-3.50 ERA, 3 HR, 8 SV, 1 BS

So with the most pressure packed games of the season yet to be played, I'll sign up for what we can reasonably expect for Sept. right now, vs. taking a chance on a guy who throws hard, but has never closed, and more than likely would weaken both the 8th and 9th innings.

I assure you Doug Melvin and RR have been and will continue to do the math, and will not panic or overreact as you seem all to eager to do.

I guess we'll see.  You're right, it's not a consistent trend.  I guess that's my biggest problem.  KRod is way too inconsistent for my liking to be a closer.  I want to know that a majority of the time my closer is going to come in and give up maybe a single or a walk here or there.  I don't want a guy who consistently puts 2 runners on with a 3 run lead, or guys in scoring position with a 1 run lead, or gives up the long ball far to often closing games for me.  April and early May he was as good as a closer can be, but I just don't think he has pitched well since.  Yes he has gone on a run of good outings at times, and yes he has had some bad outings that skew his numbers.  But as a whole he is not getting the same results (1-2-3 innings, easy saves) that he was to start the year.  I do not feel comfortable at all with him on the mound, while I do with Jeffress or even a guy like Will Smith.
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brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #541 on: August 29, 2014, 08:58:10 AM »
I guess we'll see.  You're right, it's not a consistent trend.  I guess that's my biggest problem.  KRod is way too inconsistent for my liking to be a closer.  I want to know that a majority of the time my closer is going to come in and give up maybe a single or a walk here or there.  I don't want a guy who consistently puts 2 runners on with a 3 run lead, or guys in scoring position with a 1 run lead, or gives up the long ball far to often closing games for me.  April and early May he was as good as a closer can be, but I just don't think he has pitched well since.  Yes he has gone on a run of good outings at times, and yes he has had some bad outings that skew his numbers.  But as a whole he is not getting the same results (1-2-3 innings, easy saves) that he was to start the year.  I do not feel comfortable at all with him on the mound, while I do with Jeffress or even a guy like Will Smith.

So you are worried about KRod but wouldn't have a problem with Will Smith? He of the 5.27 ERA in the 2nd half so far - not to mention a .398 OBP to right-handed hitters which he would be facing more of as a closer.


NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #542 on: August 29, 2014, 09:01:47 AM »
So in other words, you want Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman in their prime? Who doesn't? Welcome to real world. Fact is KRod is just about the same or better than any other closer in the league. His WHIP is 4th best among the top 10 save leaders in MLB (I believe the same for NL only, though he has 15 more saves than the 10th guy). He's not the only one who puts guys on base. Who wouldn't want the 9th inning to be a formality? Unfortunatley, itjust doesn't work that way. Don't let your view of what you want to happen, cloud the reality of what is actually happening (across the league).

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #543 on: August 29, 2014, 09:41:54 AM »
So in other words, you want Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman in their prime? Who doesn't? Welcome to real world. Fact is KRod is just about the same or better than any other closer in the league. His WHIP is 4th best among the top 10 save leaders in MLB (I believe the same for NL only, though he has 15 more saves than the 10th guy). He's not the only one who puts guys on base. Who wouldn't want the 9th inning to be a formality? Unfortunatley, itjust doesn't work that way. Don't let your view of what you want to happen, cloud the reality of what is actually happening (across the league).

But again, after mid May he hasn't been nearly as good.  I get it, you can't take that away from him.  He had a great first month and a half and those contribute to his overall numbers.  But when talking about how he is pitching right now (which is all that matters) he is not pitching nearly the same.  A 4.50 ERA with 12 home runs allowed in 40 innings since that time is simply not good enough.  Good closers have an ERA no higher than 3.00.  KRod's for the season is 3.00, so that's fine.  But again, I don't care what he did 4 months ago.  I really don't.  After the season I'll look back and think "Hey, KRod's numbers were pretty good."  But when I'm looking at what we have going into the last 30 games of the season with a 1 1/2 game divisional lead, I could not care less about KRod's 26 scoreless innings to start the season.  What matters is how he has been over the last month.  How he is pitching now.  And a 4.50 ERA from a closer is, quite frankly, horrible.  And that is what he has since going 26 straight scoreless innings to start the year (again, I'm not trying to take that away from him, it was fantastic, but it's not a factor in how he is pitching today, on August 29).  4.50 ERA, 12 home runs, 40 innings.  Those 2 numbers are way, way too high for a closer.  I get that that's not the entire season numbers.  I realize that.  But again, to me, and maybe I'm the only one who thinks that how he's doing now is all that matters from now until the end of the season and that opponents will magically lose their scouting report that has given them success since then on him, these numbers are what matter and you can't have that from your closer.

So you are worried about KRod but wouldn't have a problem with Will Smith? He of the 5.27 ERA in the 2nd half so far - not to mention a .398 OBP to right-handed hitters which he would be facing more of as a closer.



Nope, never said I would want him as my closer.  He's a lefty specialist.  I said I'm more comfortable seeing him on the mound than I am KRod.  KRod is going to put runners on.  If batters capitalize on a pitch left up in the zone against him, it's a 3 run homer that changes the outcome of the game.  I feel more confident that Smith will come in against the matchup we want and he'll get his guy out.
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brandx

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #544 on: August 29, 2014, 09:47:24 AM »

Nope, never said I would want him as my closer.  He's a lefty specialist.  I said I'm more comfortable seeing him on the mound than I am KRod.  KRod is going to put runners on.  If batters capitalize on a pitch left up in the zone against him, it's a 3 run homer that changes the outcome of the game.  I feel more confident that Smith will come in against the matchup we want and he'll get his guy out.

I don't mean to knock your opinion. These different opinions are what makes this all fun. What's the point in me responding to someone who feels exactly like I do?

Unlike discussions on politics - when we give different thoughts on sports, sometimes one party or the other actually changes their thinking a little.

NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #545 on: August 29, 2014, 09:54:54 AM »
But again, after mid May he hasn't been nearly as good.  I get it, you can't take that away from him.  He had a great first month and a half and those contribute to his overall numbers.  But when talking about how he is pitching right now (which is all that matters) he is not pitching nearly the same.  A 4.50 ERA with 12 home runs allowed in 40 innings since that time is simply not good enough.  Good closers have an ERA no higher than 3.00.  KRod's for the season is 3.00, so that's fine.  But again, I don't care what he did 4 months ago.  I really don't.  After the season I'll look back and think "Hey, KRod's numbers were pretty good."  But when I'm looking at what we have going into the last 30 games of the season with a 1 1/2 game divisional lead, I could not care less about KRod's 26 scoreless innings to start the season.  What matters is how he has been over the last month.  How he is pitching now.  And a 4.50 ERA from a closer is, quite frankly, horrible.  And that is what he has since going 26 straight scoreless innings to start the year (again, I'm not trying to take that away from him, it was fantastic, but it's not a factor in how he is pitching today, on August 29).  4.50 ERA, 12 home runs, 40 innings.  Those 2 numbers are way, way too high for a closer.  I get that that's not the entire season numbers.  I realize that.  But again, to me, and maybe I'm the only one who thinks that how he's doing now is all that matters from now until the end of the season and that opponents will magically lose their scouting report that has given them success since then on him, these numbers are what matter and you can't have that from your closer.


Good grief. Well if what matters is what he's done over the last month, take a look at the August numbers that were pointed out just a few posts ago. Seems to meet your criteria just fine, yet you want to make a change. So even your hand picked criteria and sample size don't support making a change.

You can say you don't like him in the roll, but the alternative matters, and there is nothing to indicate that the brewers have a better alternative.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #546 on: August 29, 2014, 10:09:09 AM »
Good grief. Well if what matters is what he's done over the last month, take a look at the August numbers that were pointed out just a few posts ago. Seems to meet your criteria just fine, yet you want to make a change. So even your hand picked criteria and sample size don't support making a change.

You can say you don't like him in the roll, but the alternative matters, and there is nothing to indicate that the brewers have a better alternative.

Good grief what?  You think that how he pitched in April is a good indicator as to how he will pitch over the next 30 games?  Okay then.  There is nothing I can say to argue with that.  That's simply an opinion and I personally think (again, an opinion) that it's a really poor opinion.

His August has been *fine* other than the dingers he gives up.  Typically when a closer gives up a home run that's a blown save right there.  Luckily for him he has come in with a multiple run lead quite a few times this year to earn a save.

And we do have a better alternative.  Look at what Jeffress has done since returning to the Milwaukee Brewers.  Look at all their numbers and tell me who has been the better pitcher since July 23, when Jeffress returned to the Brewers.  KRod or Jeffress, who has been better?  And sure they are facing different batters in different situations.  8th inning vs. 9th inning, can be different parts of the lineup, etc. so it's not a perfect comparison, but Jeffress has been pitching much better than KRod since he has returned to the Brewers staff.

I don't mean to knock your opinion. These different opinions are what makes this all fun. What's the point in me responding to someone who feels exactly like I do?

Unlike discussions on politics - when we give different thoughts on sports, sometimes one party or the other actually changes their thinking a little.

Agreed, it's all for fun.  If any of us really had a clue as to what the right decision is we would be getting paid to make those decisions rather than sitting on a Marquette basketball forum and debating it.  (By the way, I was wrong, his 1 earned run in his last outing raised Jeffress's ERA since returning to the Brewers from 0.66 to 1.23.)
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NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #547 on: August 29, 2014, 11:29:02 AM »
Good grief what?

And we do have a better alternative.  Look at what Jeffress has done since returning to the Milwaukee Brewers.  Look at all their numbers and tell me who has been the better pitcher since July 23, when Jeffress returned to the Brewers.  KRod or Jeffress, who has been better?  And sure they are facing different batters in different situations.  8th inning vs. 9th inning, can be different parts of the lineup, etc. so it's not a perfect comparison, but Jeffress has been pitching much better than KRod since he has returned to the Brewers staff.


First off, I think we agree there is a big difference between the 8th and the 9th innings. That cannot be discounted. Beyond that it is clear to me that you are disproportionately focused on HRs in your assessment. I don't like them either, but you simply are not looking objectively at what actually happens out there.

You say what happened in the last month is what matters (but for some reason always want to bring April back into the discussion), so let's take a look at that...In August which captures the last month, KRod is better than Jeffress in BAA, OBP, and WHIP, while JJ is better in SLG and the corresponding OPS only (Better in ERA as well, though as already discussed when you are talking about such limited sample, ERA may or may not be meaningful - I don't consider 1.80 vs. 3.00 in 9 IP particularly meaningful.)...again, with KRod working the 9th and Jeffres working the 8th as RR sees fit.

Which brings me to the other thing that absolutely cannot be ignored...Righty vs. lefty splits. As you know when you are given the ball in the 9th you do not get to choose whether you face RH or LH hitters. In the 8th the manager can be more selective based on who is likely to bat. JJ is appreciably worse vs. left handed hitters, where KRod is actually better. JJ has a .631 OPS vs. RH and a whopping .844 vs. LH, while KRod is .718 vs. RH and .573 vs. LH. Jeffress can be put in the best possible positions to succeed in the 7th or 8th innings. You can't do that when you just hand him the ball for the 9th.

Now, tell me again, how Jeffress is a better alternative to KRod to close out games. When the Brewers are playing the Cardinals in the fourth game of their upcoming series, having already lost 2 of the first 3, clinging to a 3-2 lead going to the 9th, you really want the Jeremy Jeffress experiment facing the likes of Holliday, Adams, Carpenter, etc? If I'm going down, I'm going down with the guy that has done it extremely well for a very long-time, and is currently leading the league in saves.

wadesworld

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #548 on: August 30, 2014, 05:19:55 AM »
If we would've had Jeffress as the closer we would've won that game last night.

Anyhow, Brewers are 1 game under .500 since starting 20-7. Meanwhile, the Pirates are 14 games over .500 since starting 18-26. And that includes a 9 game losing streak with Clutch22 out with an injury. The Pirates were finally getting healthy when they cut the division lead down to 1.5 and then McCutchen went on the DL and the lead grew to 6.5. In the 1 week since he returned the Pirates have cut the lead back down to 3. Pittsburgh is clearly the best team in the division when healthy. Will be an interesting September. Hopefully the Brewers early season hot streak was enough to hold on and the Cards and Pirates run out of time. I'm feeling 3rd in the division for the Crew.

PS Better keep both Fiers and Nelson ready to start. Peralta has been SHELLED his last 2 starts. Hopefully this isn't some kind of wall he's hitting and just has had 2 bad outtings in a row but will bounce back.
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NavinRJohnson

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Re: 2014 MLB Thread & Pissing Match
« Reply #549 on: August 30, 2014, 08:32:49 AM »
Eh. You say that as if the a brewers and Cardinals have been completely healthy. Injustpries are a issue for those teams just the same as they are for the Pirates. I don't see any scenario where I would say they are clearly the best team.

Next 7-10 days may well tell the story. As I look at the cardinals schedule in Sept though, I am not optimistic. Pretty sure we will all be watching those jackholes in the playoffs again this year (though the Brewers may still get the WC).