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Author Topic: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread  (Read 583250 times)

MU B2002

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1700 on: December 17, 2014, 06:25:22 PM »
The purpose of this move:
A. Hoping that Clausen does well to lump more of the blame on Jay, a "see it was his fault" move. In a final attempt to save all of their jobs.

B. Throwing the game to ensure Detroit makes the post season.

C. Showcasing Clausen for potential suitors in the off season.

D. Drawing QB names out of a hat.
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hairy worthen

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1701 on: December 17, 2014, 06:28:43 PM »
Cutler was actually 18-9 under Martz with a trip to the conference title game. Martz resigned in part because of his relationship with Cutler and in part because his offense was a terrible fit for such a porous o-line and Lovie wanted to run the ball more, which makes the hire itself interesting. Hue Jackson (who interviewed) would have been a much better hire and fit. Bruce Arians, Jim Caldwell and Todd Haley were also all available and all better options than Martz (don't recall if any of them interviewed).

Mike Tice was promoted because no legit OC wanted to come to Chicago and run a talent-deprived offense for a head coach who was likely gone after the season (not a great long-term career move). Regardless, Cutler went 10-5 as a starter with an overwhelmed Tice.

The fact is, Cutler won two-thirds of his starts under Martz and Tice so he was a "winner" during those stretches. Did he play up to his believed potential? No. Does he deserve a decent amount of blame for the Bears' rolling through OCs? Of course, he does. That doesn't change the fact that the Bears made some bad hires, lacked talent offensively and still won games. The "coach killer" narrative is an easy one and a lazy one. Let me be clear: Cutler definitely deserves blame for the Bears oft-changing OCs, but he wasn't the primary problem.

The  bears won with Martz and Tice in spite of cutler not because of him. Those teams had great defenses, check out their turnover ratios. That's how they won. You always say cutler has such great talent. At what point do you say maybe not so much?

brandx

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1702 on: December 17, 2014, 06:34:45 PM »
Desperation moves by an non-relevant team.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1703 on: December 17, 2014, 07:04:00 PM »
My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.

-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.

-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.

-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.

-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.

-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.

-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.

hairy worthen

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1704 on: December 17, 2014, 07:09:00 PM »
My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.

-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.

-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.

-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.

-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.

-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.

-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.

Any idea what cutler will fetch in trade. I'm thinking 4th rounder at most

MU82

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1705 on: December 17, 2014, 07:14:06 PM »
My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.

-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.

-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.

-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.

-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.

-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.

-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.

Most of this makes a lot of sense.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

nyg

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1706 on: December 17, 2014, 07:25:13 PM »
Most of this makes a lot of sense.

Interesting.  The Bucs, Titans and Jets all will be looking at QBs in the draft.  Most mocks have Mariotta and Winston going to Bucs and Titans in view of current draft rankings, with the Jets going for Hundley from UCLA in second.

Would these teams want Cutler and his 16M (?) per year contract or go with the draftees?  Jets have a TON of money next year, so we'll see. 

brandx

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1707 on: December 17, 2014, 07:28:46 PM »
My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.

-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.

-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.

-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.

-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.

-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.

-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.

Thanks, Dish.

Unbelievably, he may be attractive in a trade since teams are only committing to 2 years. And there are still plenty of offensive "masterminds" out there that think they can fix Jay Cutler.

MU B2002

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1708 on: December 17, 2014, 07:31:29 PM »
Thanks Dish.


My question is, what would the Bears do if they could trade him?  Do they target a veteran, a rookie?  Ugh my head hurts.


Maybe they can trade him to Tampa for Josh. lol.  What a circus.
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DegenerateDish

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1709 on: December 17, 2014, 07:35:00 PM »
This is just me speculating, but the team I think makes the most sense for Cutler to be traded to is St. Louis. It's not going to happen, they won't be able to clear the cap space.

I don't think the Jets will happen, probably a new coach/GM coming in. I think Lovie would make the move, but they'd have to get out of McCown's contract to really justify it. Titans make the most sense. If Whisenhunt is still the coach, that's where I see him going. After going with two young QB's, Whisenhunt would rather go with someone who gives him a better chance to win. Cutler went to Vandy, it's a semi-easier sell to that fan base than most.

I'd say they'll try to get a 3rd. Not saying they will get that, but that'll probably be the starting point. The fact that a new team is going to absorb the salary cap hit is what will make the pick a lower pick.

I believe the call has been made to let Trestman go. I'm fairly certain that's what Emery wants to do. What'll be interesting to see is if there's a power struggle the Monday after the Vikings game. That's what will be most telling. How they handle letting people go, and whoever is making those calls...that'll be the thing to really watch.

GGGG

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1710 on: December 17, 2014, 08:14:24 PM »
Dish, if all this is the case, how can Emery keep his job?  He just signed Cutler to the big deal before the year.  Do they think he can be the guy to rebuild the team at this point?  I mean they are going to have to go through some pretty lean years before getting better.  And Emery's drafts haven't been very good so far...

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1711 on: December 17, 2014, 08:32:52 PM »
Dish, if all this is the case, how can Emery keep his job?  He just signed Cutler to the big deal before the year.  Do they think he can be the guy to rebuild the team at this point?  I mean they are going to have to go through some pretty lean years before getting better.  And Emery's drafts haven't been very good so far...

I don't believe in any way that he can. The Cutler failure is an organizational mistake from the top/down. The decision to not franchise him falls on Emery. The development of Cutler fell on Cutler and Trestman. Trestman was brought in and hired to make Cutler a better QB, and he failed.

The axe should fall on everyone...Emery, Trestman, and Phillips. I don't know if it will though. There's a lot of internal family strife about what to do. It's a mess, it's embarrassing, they are every bit as dysfunctional of an organization as you read. The main problem is, and has been for decades...they have no plan whatsoever. You can clearly see the lack of traditional business skills in the family, they're main business has been the Bears. Family's like the Rooney's, the Mara's have learned how to run football teams properly. The Bears just never have. Look at the struggle in the family to get Jim Finks hired back nearly 40 years ago. Without Jim Finks, the McCaskeys would not have any Super Bowls.

They need a clear, powerful voice, with experience, to lead all football operations. Problem is, the family is too conservative, doesn't want to give up any power (imagined or otherwise). Look at Phillips, Angelo, Emery, Jauron, Trestman...nice men, but not a knockout hire in the group. Lovie is/was the only good hire they've had in 35 years.

Best way to put it...the McCaskey's are sitting on a billion plus dollar organization. The fact that they own the team devalues the franchise by probably 10% (conservative figure).

Benny B

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1712 on: December 17, 2014, 08:46:17 PM »
Any chance Cutler's contract has holes the size of Kaepernick's in it?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

GGGG

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1713 on: December 17, 2014, 08:48:50 PM »
Any chance Cutler's contract has holes the size of Kaepernick's in it?


Buss Cook is his agent...so no. 

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1714 on: December 17, 2014, 09:21:29 PM »
I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.

If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...

...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.

It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.

Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:23:32 PM by MUDish »

brandx

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1715 on: December 17, 2014, 09:29:44 PM »
As a GB fan, I'd love to see McDaniels in Chitown. Love watching all the drama down your way.

MerrittsMustache

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1716 on: December 17, 2014, 09:36:43 PM »
I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.

If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...

...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.

It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.

Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.

Interesting. Although, I can't imagine control freak Saban accepting a personnel role but not also taking on coaching responsibilities. Any insights on why you believe that he would?

Also, why would McDaniels be so expensive? He's making less than $2M in NE, he was a bust as a head coach the first time around and is generally characterized as an arrogant pain in the a$$.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1717 on: December 17, 2014, 09:50:11 PM »
Interesting. Although, I can't imagine control freak Saban accepting a personnel role but not also taking on coaching responsibilities. Any insights on why you believe that he would?

Also, why would McDaniels be so expensive? He's making less than $2M in NE, he was a bust as a head coach the first time around and is generally characterized as an arrogant pain in the a$$.


Saban's career will reach a crossroads, in my opinion, if he wins the national title again. If he wants to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be this year. The Bears have flirted with Saban before, not that it means anything.

McDaniels, of course, is the reason Cutler became a Chicago Bear.

Average going rate for an NFL head coach is roughly about $5 mil, my estimate is McDaniels would be compensated in that neighborhood.

McDaniels and Saban worked together previously and know each other. I think if Saban is going to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be with control over the roster. Just my opinion, but I think these two end up working together some where next season.

RJax55

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1718 on: December 17, 2014, 09:55:31 PM »
I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.

If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...

...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.

It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.

Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.

Dish, for a EVP or President type position, I wonder if Mike Holmgren could be in the mix. Looks like Mike is trying to get back into the league. And the Holmgren's and McCaskey's are connected via ties to North Park University.

MerrittsMustache

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1719 on: December 17, 2014, 09:59:38 PM »
Saban's career will reach a crossroads, in my opinion, if he wins the national title again. If he wants to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be this year. The Bears have flirted with Saban before, not that it means anything.

McDaniels, of course, is the reason Cutler became a Chicago Bear.

Average going rate for an NFL head coach is roughly about $5 mil, my estimate is McDaniels would be compensated in that neighborhood.

McDaniels and Saban worked together previously and know each other. I think if Saban is going to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be with control over the roster. Just my opinion, but I think these two end up working together some where next season.

Makes sense.

IIRC, Saban and Angelo had worked together at some point and Saban was a finalist when the Bears chose Lovie, in large part because Saban wanted roster control.


mu-rara

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1720 on: December 18, 2014, 08:33:26 AM »
Dish, for a EVP or President type position, I wonder if Mike Holmgren could be in the mix. Looks like Mike is trying to get back into the league. And the Holmgren's and McCaskey's are connected via ties to North Park University.
The FFW (Fat F*ckin Walrus) did not get it done in Cleveland, why Chicago?

RushmoreAcademy

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1721 on: December 18, 2014, 09:09:32 AM »
If Jay is still under center I predict Shanahan.  I would hate that, but that's how I think their brains would work.

RJax55

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1722 on: December 18, 2014, 09:21:25 AM »
The FFW (Fat F*ckin Walrus) did not get it done in Cleveland, why Chicago?

I didn't say it was a good idea. Just that Holmgren and the McCaskeys have some ties together. And frankly, this is a family that hires guys they like and they feel they have a connection/confortable with.

MerrittsMustache

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1723 on: December 18, 2014, 09:54:59 AM »
The  bears won with Martz and Tice in spite of cutler not because of him. Those teams had great defenses, check out their turnover ratios. That's how they won. You always say cutler has such great talent. At what point do you say maybe not so much?

This always seems to be the narrative with Cutler. When the team wins, it's in spite of him. When they lose, it's because of him. Cutler DOES have talent. No one with any football sense would question that. He just hasn't been able to put it all together, for whatever reason. Perhaps he'll find a Bruce Arians to his Carson Palmer (a very similar QB to Cutler) and have a career resurgence somewhere. I just can't imagine him being back on the Bears next season after this.


hairy worthen

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Re: 2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #1724 on: December 18, 2014, 11:28:36 AM »
This always seems to be the narrative with Cutler. When the team wins, it's in spite of him. When they lose, it's because of him. Cutler DOES have talent. No one with any football sense would question that. He just hasn't been able to put it all together, for whatever reason. Perhaps he'll find a Bruce Arians to his Carson Palmer (a very similar QB to Cutler) and have a career resurgence somewhere. I just can't imagine him being back on the Bears next season after this.


Look at the bear teams pre trestmann. Those were great defensive teams and average to below average offensive teams. How can you dispute that? Now the opposite is true, the defense sucks and the offense is supposed to be good except cutler can't carry the team.

If he has talent its not translating on the field. At some point in time the player has to be accountable to show his talent. Just saying he is talented because he has a strong arm doesn't make it true. There is more to being a QB than having a strong arm. The excuses for this guy are mind boggling. He was shipped out of Denver and is now being benched and ready to be shipped out again. That is very telling and there are other people that know more than me and you saying as much. Jay cutler = Jeff george