2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[brandx]

Nothing good anywhere on the field for the Bears right now.

And this:

A source tells ESPN that Brandon Marshall called out Jay Cutler following Sunday's loss to the Dolphins.

[GooooMarquette]

How about the Redskins going to Colt McCoy....3rd QB for the Redskins this year already. 

Aka:  "Operation Vikings."

[wadesworld]

Aka:  "Operation Vikings."

"Big things brewing in the Twin Cities." Heh. That was cute.

[jesmu84]

And this:

A source tells ESPN that Brandon Marshall called out Jay Cutler following Sunday's loss to the Dolphins.

Yea. Lots going on.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/11729610/brandon-marshall-chicago-bears-calls-loss-unacceptable

Interpret this specific part of Marshall's rant as you choose: "Same mistakes, same mistakes, same mistakes," Marshall said. "We've got to protect the football. We've got to protect the football. We've got to execute the game plan. We've got to adjust when things don't go as we saw on the film. We've got Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, Matt Forte. We've got a stud offensive line. We've got a great, great group of guys, and this is unacceptable. What did we put up, 14 points? Was it 14 points? That's unacceptable."

Hmm... good WRs, good TE, good RB, "stud" offensive line...

[GGGG]

Pete Carroll out-Pete Carrolled by Jeff Fisher today.  Gimmick plays to win.  Love seeing Carroll lose.  I will never understand how a punting team can get so sold on a punt returner running to the opposite side of the field than where the punt is going.  Shouldn't the punting team know where the punter will be punting the ball in a "coffin corner" situation?  The Packers were dumb enough to let the Bears do it to them a few years back, only to have it called back on a penalty.

I really don't know what to think about this season.  This year more than any other than I can think of it seems like there are no clear cut favorites.  Seattle embarrasses Green Bay to open the season and has looked average at best since then (the Harvin situation doesn't help their cause).  Green Bay looks awful the first 3 weeks of the season and have looked outstanding since (Miami is tough, on the road you take a last second win there).  Carolina looks outstanding one week and awful the next.  Bears same story.  Saints and Falcons can look great at times but overall aren't very good.  Dallas seems to be good but for one reason or another they don't scare me as a Packers fan one bit (although if Murray keeps going like he has been then I should be shaking).  Arizona is good, but are they really?  Is Philli?

Kind of the same story in the AFC.  Denver is good.  San Diego is playing well but I wouldn't be overly scared of them.  Cinci looked incredible 3 weeks ago and now don't look very good.  Baltimore is playing well now.  New England is starting to find its way but they aren't that good.  I'm not a believer in Indi, but they'll have a nice record courtesy of that division.

If I had to make a list of the top 5 teams in each division with my green and gold glasses on it would probably go like this at this point:

NFC
1) Packers
2) Eagles
3) Lions
4) 49ers
5) Cowboys

AFC
1) Broncos
2) Chargers
3) Patriots
4) Colts
5) Ravens?

To me the NFC is much deeper.  Broncos may be the best team in the NFL right now but I have a hard time cutting down a top 5 in the NFC, while I have a hard time finding 5 really quality teams in the AFC.  And I guarantee these "rankings" would change every week.  Just a weird season.

Cowboys are the best team in football right now.  Packers can obviously beat them, but that power running game, combined with their weapons on the outside, and I think you'd have to say they are top of the heap. 

[MU82]

I'm not even dealing with your "better than thou" crap today. Time to watch doctor who.

But it is true. It's amazing how many head coaches, offensive coordinators, quarterback coaches and receivers Cutler has gone through.

To Cutler's backers -- a dwindling group -- it's never his fault.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pete Carroll out-Pete Carrolled by Jeff Fisher today.  Gimmick plays to win.  Love seeing Carroll lose.  I will never understand how a punting team can get so sold on a punt returner running to the opposite side of the field than where the punt is going.  Shouldn't the punting team know where the punter will be punting the ball in a "coffin corner" situation?  The Packers were dumb enough to let the Bears do it to them a few years back, only to have it called back on a penalty.

I really don't know what to think about this season.  This year more than any other than I can think of it seems like there are no clear cut favorites.  Seattle embarrasses Green Bay to open the season and has looked average at best since then (the Harvin situation doesn't help their cause).  Green Bay looks awful the first 3 weeks of the season and have looked outstanding since (Miami is tough, on the road you take a last second win there).  Carolina looks outstanding one week and awful the next.  Bears same story.  Saints and Falcons can look great at times but overall aren't very good.  Dallas seems to be good but for one reason or another they don't scare me as a Packers fan one bit (although if Murray keeps going like he has been then I should be shaking).  Arizona is good, but are they really?  Is Philli?

Kind of the same story in the AFC.  Denver is good.  San Diego is playing well but I wouldn't be overly scared of them.  Cinci looked incredible 3 weeks ago and now don't look very good.  Baltimore is playing well now.  New England is starting to find its way but they aren't that good.  I'm not a believer in Indi, but they'll have a nice record courtesy of that division.

If I had to make a list of the top 5 teams in each division with my green and gold glasses on it would probably go like this at this point:

NFC
1) Packers
2) Eagles
3) Lions
4) 49ers
5) Cowboys

AFC
1) Broncos
2) Chargers
3) Patriots
4) Colts
5) Ravens?

To me the NFC is much deeper.  Broncos may be the best team in the NFL right now but I have a hard time cutting down a top 5 in the NFC, while I have a hard time finding 5 really quality teams in the AFC.  And I guarantee these "rankings" would change every week.  Just a weird season.

Interesting list.  Mine would be a lot different in the NFC.  I'm not a buyer of the Lions at all.  Still think Seahawks will get it together.  As much as I love the Cowboys, they would be #2 in the NFC for me and #3 or #4 overall today, with plenty of room to go either way.
 
NFC
Packers
Cowboys  (defense still isn't good, but the running game is helping the team tremendously to keep defense off field)
Eagles
Cardinals
49ers

AFC
Broncos
Indy
Baltimore
Chargers
New England

[jesmu84]

But it is true. It's amazing how many head coaches, offensive coordinators, quarterback coaches and receivers Cutler has gone through.

To Cutler's backers -- a dwindling group -- it's never his fault.

Serious question.. to you, or Wades or whomever.. can you find me one singular person who has ever said it's NEVER Cutler's fault?

As a lifelong Bears fan, I have been a Cutler supporter. But I also recognize the guy isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. In Chicago (I can't talk at all about Denver), we have had a lot of crappy coaches/staffs in the last 25 years, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Again, that's not removing all fault from Cutler (when he's been here), but it's acknowledging the truth about the recent history of the Bears organization.

[brandx]

It all comes down to ONE issue with Jay: Ball Security

Hard to tell if he lacks the talent/brains to quit turning the ball over or whether he doesn't care.

But in the long run, it really doesn't matter.

[hairy worthen]

It all comes down to ONE issue with Jay: Ball Security

Hard to tell if he lacks the talent/brains to quit turning the ball over or whether he doesn't care.

But in the long run, it really doesn't matter.

Its more than just ball security.  Andrew Luck has the same number of interceptions as Cutler and no one is mistaking Luck for Cutler.  Favre consistently threw interceptions, but he is considered one of the all time greats.  Some QB's have "it" and some do not. 

I heard several callers on Chicago sports radio last night complaining about Cutlers lack of fire and intensity.  The host said that is not true, but maybe Jay just isn't that good. That may be true.

[GGGG]

Luck and Favre helped themselves because they had decent personalities that made them likable.  Jay is a prick.  And that's OK.

There are times he looks really good and there are times he looks awful.  Does he have a good enough rapport with his receivers?  Do they would out enough in the off-season?  I don't know.

One other thing I have to wonder about is the surface at Soldier Field.  Would a better playing surface help the them click more on offense?

[wadesworld]

Interesting list.  Mine would be a lot different in the NFC.  I'm not a buyer of the Lions at all.  Still think Seahawks will get it together.  As much as I love the Cowboys, they would be #2 in the NFC for me and #3 or #4 overall today, with plenty of room to go either way.
 
NFC
Packers
Cowboys  (defense still isn't good, but the running game is helping the team tremendously to keep defense off field)
Eagles
Cardinals
49ers

AFC
Broncos
Indy
Baltimore
Chargers
New England

That's a good point.  And of course the 9ers go and make me look like an idiot last night (then again, the Broncos do that to a lot of teams).  I think my rankings for best team as of right now are a lot different from my rankings of teams I would least like to see the Packers have to go up against in the Playoffs.  Best team/playing the best right now probably looks like (through my green and gold glasses):

NFC:
1) Packers
2) Cowboys
3) Eagles
4) Lions
5) Cardinals

AFC:
1) Broncos
2) Chargers?
3) Colts?
4) Patriots?
5) Ravens?
(Can probably swap any of 2-5 in any order)

Who I'd least like to see the Packers play in the Playoffs?
AFC:
1) Seahawks
2) Cardinals
3) Lions
4) Cowboys
5) Eagles

AFC:
1) Broncos
2) Patriots
3) Chargers
4) Colts
5) Bengals

The teams that scare me the most are teams that can get to the passer defensively, don't turn the ball over, and can control the clock.  Seahawks still can do that but are a lot less scary offensively without Harvin (even though his numbers weren't great, he's still always a threat that the defense has to account for on every play).  Stafford and Romo make their teams a lot less scary to play because they're always susceptible to the turnover.

[hairy worthen]

Luck and Favre helped themselves because they had decent personalities that made them likable.  Jay is a prick.  And that's OK.

There are times he looks really good and there are times he looks awful.  Does he have a good enough rapport with his receivers?  Do they would out enough in the off-season?  I don't know.

One other thing I have to wonder about is the surface at Soldier Field.  Would a better playing surface help the them click more on offense?

Personality has nothing to do with it.  If Cutler had a winning percentage even close to Favre or Luck, no one would care less about his personality.  There are a lot of pricks that win (see Belicheck, Bill) 

Now if you are saying Cutler can't relate to or inspire his teammates then I might buy that.

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Problem with Dallas remains their defense.  No pass rush at all....terrible pass rush.

Their schedule, 27th in the league right now.  They have zero wins over teams with a winning record through the 7th game of the season (yes, they have beaten teams that had a winning record at the time).  The only team they played that has a winning record still, they lost to....the 49ers.

Upcoming games against the Colts, Eagles twice, Arizona, will show how good the Cowboys truly are. 

I'd take the Packers and Broncos over them easily at this point.

[hairy worthen]

Problem with Dallas remains their defense.  No pass rush at all....terrible pass rush.

Their schedule, 27th in the league right now.  They have zero wins over teams with a winning record through the 7th game of the season (yes, they have beaten teams that had a winning record at the time).  The only team they played that has a winning record still, they lost to....the 49ers.

Upcoming games against the Colts, Eagles twice, Arizona, will show how good the Cowboys truly are. 

I'd take the Packers and Broncos over them easily at this point.

A win at Seattle is a big win, as is a win against New Orleans, not so much the wins, but how they won those games. The Cowboys are for real and this from a life long Cowboy hater.

[JWags85]

Its more than just ball security.  Andrew Luck has the same number of interceptions as Cutler and no one is mistaking Luck for Cutler.  Favre consistently threw interceptions, but he is considered one of the all time greats.  Some QB's have "it" and some do not. 

I heard several callers on Chicago sports radio last night complaining about Cutlers lack of fire and intensity.  The host said that is not true, but maybe Jay just isn't that good. That may be true.

I'm a Cutler apologist, I'll admit that, but I will also fully say when he didn't play well.  Yesterday, he didn't play well.  However, what was also interesting about your point about him and Luck having the same number of INTs, for whatever reason, everytime the Bears turn it over, INT or fumble, the opponent is capitalizing.  That's the frustrating thing about this team, they are always on the razors edge.  Look at the Carolina game, Cutler was playing great, things were going well, all of a sudden the D falls apart, Cutler throws a pick and the D can't get a stop, and its an epic collapse.

You look at Cutler's numbers on the year, they aren't bad, actually on pace to set career highs in TDs, completion percentage, QB rating, and maybe yards, but every mistake he's made has just been amplified.   Thats the difference with alot of QBs, not everyone is a Manning or Rodgers with freakish accuracy and near perfect discipline, but it also helps to have a team that will bounce back.  I don't know if its on Trestman, or Mel Tucker, or Cutler for not being a better leader, but thats what it means when people say its not all Cutler's fault.  Not that he's absent from blame, cause nobody with any sense would say he is, but to say this team doesn't have severe issues beyond him is also unfair.  They have all the weapons on offense, but Trestman seems to overthink himself and get too cute way too often.

[MU82]

Serious question.. to you, or Wades or whomever.. can you find me one singular person who has ever said it's NEVER Cutler's fault?

As a lifelong Bears fan, I have been a Cutler supporter. But I also recognize the guy isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. In Chicago (I can't talk at all about Denver), we have had a lot of crappy coaches/staffs in the last 25 years, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Again, that's not removing all fault from Cutler (when he's been here), but it's acknowledging the truth about the recent history of the Bears organization.

I was guilty of using hyperbole; sorry about that. All I meant was that he has a lot of apologists who tend to blame others around him more than blaming him. And if that's what I meant, that's what I should have said.

My bottom line with Cutler:

Of big-money, big-reputation QBs, Cutler ranks quite low on the list of those I would trust to deliver in a must-win game. He picks freakishly wrong times to make outlandishly idiotic decisions, often undermining his team.

[hairy worthen]

I'm a Cutler apologist, I'll admit that, but I will also fully say when he didn't play well.  Yesterday, he didn't play well.  However, what was also interesting about your point about him and Luck having the same number of INTs, for whatever reason, everytime the Bears turn it over, INT or fumble, the opponent is capitalizing.  That's the frustrating thing about this team, they are always on the razors edge.  Look at the Carolina game, Cutler was playing great, things were going well, all of a sudden the D falls apart, Cutler throws a pick and the D can't get a stop, and its an epic collapse.

You look at Cutler's numbers on the year, they aren't bad, actually on pace to set career highs in TDs, completion percentage, QB rating, and maybe yards, but every mistake he's made has just been amplified.   Thats the difference with alot of QBs, not everyone is a Manning or Rodgers with freakish accuracy and near perfect discipline, but it also helps to have a team that will bounce back.  I don't know if its on Trestman, or Mel Tucker, or Cutler for not being a better leader, but thats what it means when people say its not all Cutler's fault.  Not that he's absent from blame, cause nobody with any sense would say he is, but to say this team doesn't have severe issues beyond him is also unfair.  They have all the weapons on offense, but Trestman seems to overthink himself and get too cute way too often.

You are correct, it is more than just the quarterback.

 However, what about the years when Cutler had one of the best defenses in the league?  Seems like there are always excuses for the guy. Offensive coordinator sucked, no weapons, coach sucks, no defense.  At what point do you say, maybe its Cutlers fault.  Some players are leaders and make their team better because of or in spite of them, others just are not.

[GGGG]

I'm saying his personality means that people crap on him, while they let other quarterbacks who toss interceptions (like Luck and Favre) off the hook.  

Favre won 61% of his games as a starter.  Cutler has won 54%.  Not significantly different.  But they are treated completely different, in many ways because of Cutler's demeanor.

[DegenerateDish]

I brought this up a couple weeks ago, but once the wheels fell off for the Bears, it was going to be interesting to see how they reacted. There's a lot of issues internally there right now. From what I've been able to gather, a lot of people on defense don't have faith in the coaching staff. On offense, there's finger pointing going on every direction. I don't think Trestman can work through the issues that exist. I don't think he'll be fired, at least not this offseason. Say what you will about Lovie, the locker room had a lot of respect for him. That same respect doesn't exist now.

The job Marinelli is doing in Dallas is remarkable. I know he can't win coach of the year, but to me, that's been probably the most impressive unit in football, considering where they came from.

I don't think it's a coincidence that (probably) the 3 best teams in football have arguably the 3 best and healthiest offensive lines (Dallas, Green Bay, Denver).

[PBRme]

I'm pretty sure that there is a much higher percentage of defensive Packer players (during Favre and Rodgers), defensive Indy players (during Manning and Luck) that had confidence that if they did get the ball back they were going to win.  I'm also sure the defensive Bears players do not have the same confidence in Cutler.  He just does not seem to be able to win when he is behind.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A win at Seattle is a big win, as is a win against New Orleans, not so much the wins, but how they won those games. The Cowboys are for real and this from a life long Cowboy hater.

Maybe it is my bias of watching this team for 40 years that has me wavering.  The offense is tremendous right now.  The defense, without a pass rush and suspect corners, is going to struggle, IMO, against quality offenses.  At least until proven otherwise.   Let's see how the Pokes do against Philly, Arizona and the Colts.  If they can split those that will say something.

Green Bay, Denver are in another class in my opinion, but everyone has holes....Denver has the fewest this year...GB has plenty, as does Dallas, Indy, Baltimore,Philly,  etc.

[hairy worthen]

I'm saying his personality means that people crap on him, while they let other quarterbacks who toss interceptions (like Luck and Favre) off the hook.  

Favre won 61% of his games as a starter.  Cutler has won 54%.  Not significantly different.  But they are treated completely different, in many ways because of Cutler's demeanor.

Well see, that’s where I disagree with you. The winning percentages are drastically different when you are talking over 10 years of playing, in Favres case 16. 

I think personality, fire, intensity, whatever you want to call it matters on the field when you are a quarterback. I believe Cutler’s demeanor hurts his team on the field. However, winning trumps all. If Cutler were a prick and winning more consistently his personality wouldn’t be an issue. On the other hand I am sure someone like Tebow is a hell of a nice guy, but can’t win consistently in the NFL.  Cutler doesn’t take crap because of his personality, he takes crap because he doesn’t win just like Favre or whatever “likeable quarterback” would take crap if they lost.

[wadesworld]

I brought this up a couple weeks ago, but once the wheels fell off for the Bears, it was going to be interesting to see how they reacted. There's a lot of issues internally there right now. From what I've been able to gather, a lot of people on defense don't have faith in the coaching staff. On offense, there's finger pointing going on every direction. I don't think Trestman can work through the issues that exist. I don't think he'll be fired, at least not this offseason. Say what you will about Lovie, the locker room had a lot of respect for him. That same respect doesn't exist now.

The job Marinelli is doing in Dallas is remarkable. I know he can't win coach of the year, but to me, that's been probably the most impressive unit in football, considering where they came from.

I don't think it's a coincidence that (probably) the 3 best teams in football have arguably the 3 best and healthiest offensive lines (Dallas, Green Bay, Denver).

Interesting.  I think the O Line has done a great job in pass protection, but I wouldn't think of them as a top 3 line.  Certainly above average, but they have not run blocked well (and Lacy just hasn't run as well either).  Up until the Vikings game there were very few holes for Lacy to hit, and Lacy was hesitant to hit them when they were actually there.  It has improved a bit since then, but the run blocking and the running overall still hasn't been what most were expecting/hoping.

[Lennys Tap]

   Let's see how the Pokes do against Philly, Arizona and the Colts.  If they can split those that will say something.

If they can "split" 3 games there will have to be a tie, a very rare occurrence. Math continues to be a challenge for you.