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Author Topic: which conference is better?  (Read 30193 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2014, 11:29:08 AM »
I think this helps show it.  Blue for Big East. Red for AAC.  These are expected RPI finishes.  I put a space in between clusters that show wide disparity from the others


5 Villanova
11 Creighton

18 Cincinnati
27 Louisville
30 Memphis
31 UCONN
40 SMU

45 Xavier
54 Georgetown
62 Providence
69 St. John's
82 Marquette

126 Butler
128 Seton Hall
145 DePaul


174 South Florida
183 Temple
189 Houston
193 Rutgers
214 UCF

slack00

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2014, 02:53:53 PM »
The bottom of the American is so bad that it's actually helping the top

Quote
The top half of the American (Cincinnati, Louisville, SMU, Memphis and UConn) is a combined 31-2 against the bottom half of the American (Houston, Rutgers, South Florida, Temple and UCF)

Quote
Simply put, that the divide between the top and bottom of the American is unusually wide, and that the bottom isn't good enough to threaten the top, which means the top isn't going to take many "bad" losses, and that's a good thing for the top. So think about that, on Selection Sunday, when you see 50 percent of the American in the Field of 68. They'll be there, in part, because they're good enough to do what's necessary. But they'll be aided, undeniably, by a bottom half of the league that's just bad enough to stay out of their way.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24442264/the-bottom-of-the-american-is-so-bad-that-its-actually-helping-the-top

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2014, 03:03:21 PM »
The bottom of the American is so bad that it's actually helping the top

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24442264/the-bottom-of-the-american-is-so-bad-that-its-actually-helping-the-top

Interestingly the New Haven Register just ran an article on this topic.  The first two paragraphs say the same.  (Excerpt is below.)
http://www.nhregister.com/sports/20140212/borges-huskies-again-feast-on-aacs-weak-links

Borges: Huskies again feast on AAC’s weak links
By David Borges, New Haven Register
Posted: 02/12/14, 10:35 PM EST |

HARTFORD >> So all that talk about the American Athletic Conference being better than anyone expected — including talk that came from yours truly, in this space, a day ago — well, it’s all true. Tough to overlook having five Top 25 teams in one 10-team conference.

The flip side, however, is the AAC’s dirty little secret: as good as its top five teams are, its bottom five are just as awful.

Look no further than UConn’s disturbingly easy whipping of South Florida on Wednesday night at the XL Center. The Huskies (19-5, 7-4 AAC) dominated so thoroughly – scoring the game’s first eight points, then using a 16-0 run midway through the first half to quickly turn it into a laugher – it was like going to a UConn men’s game and a UConn women’s game broke out.

The Equalizer

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2014, 04:05:33 PM »
So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."






 

Dawson Rental

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2014, 04:12:35 PM »
So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."

You seem to be starting off grouchy.  There are benefits to having better performing teams in a conferences lower tier.  It lifts the conferences RPI, and the individual RPI's of the Individual schools.  It also can help establish a reputation for the league as one that has mostly competitive games.  (Something Fox Sports would like to see, I'm sure.)
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2014, 05:15:20 PM »
So the BE should be building its marketing campaign around "Our crappy teams suck less."

I would simply go with best Basketball only conference in the nation.    (that's cheating, we play things other than basketball, but it's marketing...goes with the territory)


slack00

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2014, 11:01:48 AM »
Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east.  Boy was I wrong!

Early 2015 review. Must we still admit that "the AAC is easily better than this New Big East"?  RPI Ranks from WarrenNolan.com

1 Big 12 0.6088
2 Big East 0.5828
3 SEC 0.5755
4 Big Ten 0.5700
5 ACC 0.5689
6 Pac12 0.5555
7 Atlantic10 0.5449
8 American 0.5216
9 MountainWest 0.5213
10 MissouriValley 0.5198


10 Villanova
18 Seton Hall
40 StJohns
49 Xavier
51 Butler
56 Temple
60 Marquette
66 Cincinnati
73 Providence
80 SMU
81 Georgetown
84 Tulsa
89 Connecticut
127 Creighton
136 Memphis
161 Tulane
187 DePaul
192 Houston
194 South Florida
239 UCF
251 East Carolina

I'm sure if we looked at Nolan Power Index ranks or KenPom.com ranks that the numbers would be the same.

Nobody would argue that this current conference is as good as the 2011 version of the conference, but it shows how important it was for the Presidents and ADs to act as they did when they did to form the current version of the conference.  Most of us saw this last year already.

MarquetteDano

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2014, 12:14:27 PM »
Early 2015 review. Must we still admit that "the AAC is easily better than this New Big East"?  RPI Ranks from WarrenNolan.com

1 Big 12 0.6088
2 Big East 0.5828
3 SEC 0.5755
4 Big Ten 0.5700
5 ACC 0.5689
6 Pac12 0.5555
7 Atlantic10 0.5449
8 American 0.5216
9 MountainWest 0.5213
10 MissouriValley 0.5198


10 Villanova
18 Seton Hall
40 StJohns
49 Xavier
51 Butler
56 Temple
60 Marquette
66 Cincinnati
73 Providence
80 SMU
81 Georgetown
84 Tulsa
89 Connecticut
127 Creighton
136 Memphis
161 Tulane
187 DePaul
192 Houston
194 South Florida
239 UCF
251 East Carolina

I'm sure if we looked at Nolan Power Index ranks or KenPom.com ranks that the numbers would be the same.

Nobody would argue that this current conference is as good as the 2011 version of the conference, but it shows how important it was for the Presidents and ADs to act as they did when they did to form the current version of the conference.  Most of us saw this last year already.


Good post.  We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better.  This year it isn't even close.  And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.

Will be interesting as the year's progress.  If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.

Coleman

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2014, 01:07:57 PM »
Good post.  We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better.  This year it isn't even close.  And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.

Will be interesting as the year's progress.  If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.
'

I'd say the AAC is pretty much already there.

bamamarquettefan

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2014, 09:59:36 PM »
Great job. When I first looked at the post title I didn't catch the date and thought someone was crazy. Now if Kennedy is coming back then SMU should shoot back up, but kenpom has had the aac behind two mid-majors all year and it was a stretch for me to leave them classified as a high major.

I love the new big east, but I still wish UConn would downgrade football and come back. If that happened and Georgetown would let VCU in I'd love to see that 12 - but short of that the 10 team round robin looks great.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 10:52:30 PM by bamamarquettefan »
The www.valueaddsports.com analysis of basketball, football and baseball players are intended to neither be too hot or too cold - hundreds immerse themselves in studies of stats not of interest to broader fan bases (too hot), while others still insist on pure observation (too cold).

GooooMarquette

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2014, 08:10:43 AM »
We  always joke about how awful DePaul is...but the AAC has four teams that are even worse.  Ouch!

Class71

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2014, 08:20:17 AM »
Alright guys, I think its time to admit that the AAC is easily better than this New Big East conference we are in. I previously said that the AAC was gonna be inferior to the new big east.  Boy was I wrong!

I am surprised anyone cares. Kentucky is also better than Duke and Ohio State is better than MU etc. But lest we forget we went to Marquette. I think that is our interest, is it not? It is how much we progress toward our goals that counts. I really do not care that the ACC is better or that you were wrong in your prediction. Hope you understand life is not measured in absolutes. If it were everyone except the top dog is going to be very disappointed. Those odds gives you essentially no hope for success.
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MUMonster03

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2014, 09:23:53 AM »
Good post.  We have had two years and one year the AAC was slightly better.  This year it isn't even close.  And the AAC this year is getting near mid major conference territory.

Will be interesting as the year's progress.  If the Power 5 Conferences poach just one AAC member the conference will basically be mid-major and the Big East will separate itself even more so.

Also the AAC is at risk of losing Cincinnati and possibly Memphis to the Big 12 since they have basically been shown they need to have a conference championship game to get into the new playoff. That would leave the AAC with just UConn and they would become CUSA afte the exodus of Marquette, Cincy, and Louisville.

I don't know how soon it will happen but adding those schools also helps WV by giving them a couple of closer road trips and improves their basketball and gives Kansas some competition for that conference title streak. It just makes too much sense for the Big 12 to at least not take one. The only other relevant school from a football perspective would be Boise St.

Coleman

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2014, 09:25:34 AM »
Also the AAC is at risk of losing Cincinnati and possibly Memphis to the Big 12 since they have basically been shown they need to have a conference championship game to get into the new playoff. That would leave the AAC with just UConn and they would become CUSA afte the exodus of Marquette, Cincy, and Louisville.

I don't know how soon it will happen but adding those schools also helps WV by giving them a couple of closer road trips and improves their basketball and gives Kansas some competition for that conference title streak. It just makes too much sense for the Big 12 to at least not take one. The only other relevant school from a football perspective would be Boise St.

If Cincy and Memphis leave, I don't think there is any way UConn stays.

I think it is more likely only one of them would leave, and then the Big12 also takes Colorado State.

I think we should find a way to welcome UConn into the Big East. I know they are a football school, but we could get creative. They could put football somewhere else (MAC, there is precedent for football-only with UMass, but they will be leaving the conference to go independent in 2016, creating a vacancy), or even try it as an independent. I know we said no football schools but if we also took SLU that would only be 1/12 with football and the non-football schools would hold all the power, we could dictate whatever we wanted to UConn. It would really boost the conference. Further, football does not drive the bus at UConn. It is a basketball school. That is a big difference.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 09:32:55 AM by Bleuteaux »

oldwarrior81

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2014, 09:35:58 AM »
if Boise State why not BYU?

Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract.    By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.

Coleman

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2014, 09:43:52 AM »
if Boise State why not BYU?

Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract.    By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.

Colorado St.

Avenue Commons

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2014, 09:48:35 AM »
Just like I was wrong about Vander declaring, JJJ committing, us being overrated before the season..should I go on??

Are you in AA and trying to make amends?

One day at a time, brother. The program works if you work it.
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Litehouse

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2014, 10:10:51 AM »
if Boise State why not BYU?

Outside of Cincinnati, of all the teams being discussed, BYU is probably the only one that brings a following that could actually improve the current television contract.    By adding the others, the current Big12 teams may just be splitting the revenue 12 ways rather than 10.

That might not be as big of a deal with the Big 12 since they don't split revenue evenly.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2014, 10:20:52 AM »
That might not be as big of a deal with the Big 12 since they don't split revenue evenly.

If they expand, the Big XII doesn't have any options that don't have warts which fits with my idea several months ago posted on Scoop.  Why can't the Big XII just add "football only schools" who would probably take less since the less would still be more than they're getting in their current conference.  The championship game $$$ would more than offset the additions under that scenario and then you don't have to deal with all the "travel issues" with the non-football sports.  They can open a "new market" any way they want.  They can probably work in some guaranteed basketball games as part of the deal.  (UConn-Kansas?) 

source?

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2014, 10:37:02 AM »
If Cincy and Memphis leave, I don't think there is any way UConn stays.

I think it is more likely only one of them would leave, and then the Big12 also takes Colorado State.

I think we should find a way to welcome UConn into the Big East. I know they are a football school, but we could get creative. They could put football somewhere else (MAC, there is precedent for football-only with UMass, but they will be leaving the conference to go independent in 2016, creating a vacancy), or even try it as an independent. I know we said no football schools but if we also took SLU that would only be 1/12 with football and the non-football schools would hold all the power, we could dictate whatever we wanted to UConn. It would really boost the conference. Further, football does not drive the bus at UConn. It is a basketball school. That is a big difference.

Just for reference, UMass was told they could either join the MAC for all sports or take their football elsewhere. They are no longer accepting football-only members. I otherwise agree that we should take any opportunity that arises to add UConn.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2014, 10:52:47 AM »
Just for reference, UMass was told they could either join the MAC for all sports or take their football elsewhere. They are no longer accepting football-only members. I otherwise agree that we should take any opportunity that arises to add UConn.

Apparently, the only way they would have been allowed to stay in the MAC for football was if Temple stayed.

GGGG

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2014, 11:00:16 AM »
If they expand, the Big XII doesn't have any options that don't have warts which fits with my idea several months ago posted on Scoop.  Why can't the Big XII just add "football only schools" who would probably take less since the less would still be more than they're getting in their current conference.  The championship game $$$ would more than offset the additions under that scenario and then you don't have to deal with all the "travel issues" with the non-football sports.  They can open a "new market" any way they want.  They can probably work in some guaranteed basketball games as part of the deal.  (UConn-Kansas?) 


What football playing conference would allow a member school to park its football program in another conference?  None...so that is likely not an option.

Now this is where BYU comes in.  BYU is a football independent and has its other sports in the non-football WCC.  They *might* be willing to join as a football member, which also leaves the B12 not worrying about scheduling other events on Sunday.  A current example of this is Hawaii, whose football program is in the MWC, but has the rest of its sports in the Big West.

So would UConn be willing to do something similar with its football program, parking the rest of its sports in the BE?  Probably.  Would the BE be interested?  Eh...I don't know.

MUMonster03

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2014, 11:43:26 AM »

What football playing conference would allow a member school to park its football program in another conference?  None...so that is likely not an option.

Now this is where BYU comes in.  BYU is a football independent and has its other sports in the non-football WCC.  They *might* be willing to join as a football member, which also leaves the B12 not worrying about scheduling other events on Sunday.  A current example of this is Hawaii, whose football program is in the MWC, but has the rest of its sports in the Big West.

So would UConn be willing to do something similar with its football program, parking the rest of its sports in the BE?  Probably.  Would the BE be interested?  Eh...I don't know.

I don't know of any conference that allows you to split sports unless that conference your other sports are in doesn't support that sport. UMass was in the A10, didn't support football, and therefore played in the MAC but now has decided its all or nothing. Boise St. When they were going to join the Big East was going to move all other sports to the WCC which doesn't sponsor football. Most the times associate members wind up that way due to main conference not supporting non revenue sports.

I think BYU likes being independent. The most I see them doing is striking up a deal like ND has with the ACC to guarantee decent bowl games.

I don't know where the love for Colorado St. is coming from. They have been pretty bad at Football since 2008 up until last year and have only made 3 men's tournaments since 2000 and I'm not sure if it really adds a market since they don't really give you Denver.

From a competitive standpoint, in at least one sport, I think Boise St, Memphis, and Cincy make more sense and they clearly give you a new market. BYU would be an ideal just not sure if doable but basically gives you Utah and Mormons everywhere.

GGGG

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2014, 11:53:20 AM »
Yeah I agree with you on BYU.  They might not be interested in a B12 football only membership.

And Colorado State sounds good.  Big public university in a growing metropolitan area.  However their football attendance is terrible.  Based on 2013 figures, they drew just over 18,000 per game.   That would be *by far* the smallest of any school in the Power 5.  And would be basically half of Kansas' average - the current laggard in the B12.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: which conference is better?
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2014, 11:23:49 AM »
I found a blurb on possible Big 12 expansion that was interesting.  Gave an actual TV figure whether true or not.  It was from an apparent UC blog.

Even if the Big 12 tried to increase membership early, rumor has it Fox is requiring the conference to expand their 16 million household reach by 20-25% and supposedly add a new time zone in order to bring in at least one new school. Those are just rumors of course but would definitely put Cincinnati and their 875,000 households in the Eastern time zone out of luck (thanks, West Virginia).


http://cincyontheprowl.com/2014/12/22/alls-quiet-on-the-big-12-realignment-front-sort-of/

 

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