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Author Topic: Washington Redskins change their name  (Read 135650 times)

Coleman

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #450 on: October 01, 2014, 11:46:39 AM »
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24732614/fcc-will-consider-petition-to-ban-redskins-nickname-from-airwaves

How are they going to accomplish this?  Announcers still today call Marquette the Warriors from time to time.  I doubt it will ever stop. Are they going to beep out on a delay every time an announcer says "Redskins"?

Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins
Redskins

Fines. Its not that hard.

keefe

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #451 on: October 01, 2014, 12:00:04 PM »
Seems a symptom you come down with often.   ;D


I said some Native Americans.  I provided polls, provided letters, provided statements, provided  videos.  Some Native Americans.



We are working with American Indian groups at the national advocacy and tribal levels. They categorically do not like the term, "Native American." The proper nomenclature is "Indian Country" for the macro or collective and Tribe/Tribal for the specific.


Death on call

brandx

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #452 on: October 01, 2014, 12:00:56 PM »
I don't know where your kids went to school, but my kids learned American history starting far earlier than that.  They learned about the Trail of Tears, Revolution, Civil War, etc. 

You're right. Elephantman was just exaggerating (lying) to try to make his same old political point.

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #453 on: October 01, 2014, 01:40:02 PM »
We are working with American Indian groups at the national advocacy and tribal levels. They categorically do not like the term, "Native American." The proper nomenclature is "Indian Country" for the macro or collective and Tribe/Tribal for the specific.
Where'd the term "Native American" come from?

keefe

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #454 on: October 01, 2014, 03:16:19 PM »
Where'd the term "Native American" come from?

I think the same people who came up with Chief Wahoo, Chief Knockahoma and Willie Wampum.

To suggest there is anything resembling a consensus within Indian Country would be to say there is a consensus among Asian states. All I know is that in all correspondence and formal documents the Indian organizations and tribes use the terms Indian Country and Tribes/Tribal. I have gotten to know the Presidentially-appointed director of a national health related entity, a Lakota Sioux who has an MD and MPH from Harvard,  and she stated plainly that "Native American" is meaningless to Indians and is yet another convention concocted by Caucasians to attempt to categorize or explain Indians.

In any event, these people are grossly underserved and under-researched and are easily the most underrepresented group in the United States. White people have inflicted grievous harm on them and the continued use of offensive imagery is despicable. If our only recognition of them as human beings is through the use of grossly distorted caricatures, simplistic renderings of their beliefs and practices, and naïve petulance over objections to our own ignorance then we only further the contempt we have for them as human beings. Anyone educated in the Jesuit tradition should understand this. 


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4everwarriors

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #455 on: October 01, 2014, 03:24:31 PM »
Then there's the Russian chick, Ivana Biturkockov.
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Anti-Dentite

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #456 on: October 01, 2014, 03:36:13 PM »
Can you please point this post out to me? Cause I feel that I have been nothing but cordial in this discussion.

This isn't a cat fight. Or at least it doesn't have to be. I continue to engage in this dialogue because I think it is an important topic in modern day society. I'm glad to have people like Chicos who care enough to be willing to discuss it. These things need to be discussed out in the open, that's how we can make progress. Sweeping it under the rug (e.g. the Warriors switch), just leads to resentment and allows old wounds to fester.
I apologize, I couldn't sleep and was obviously a bit crabby. There is a lot of good discussion going on in this thread, just don't like when it starts to get personal at times. My bad.
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Benny B

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #457 on: October 02, 2014, 08:51:30 AM »
Fines. Its not that hard.

Exactly.  $10,000 to the network, $10,000 to the director, and $10,000 to the on-air voice for every utterance will do just nicely.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #458 on: October 02, 2014, 08:58:39 AM »
Exactly.  $10,000 to the network, $10,000 to the director, and $10,000 to the on-air voice for every utterance will do just nicely.

Nanny-state BS.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #459 on: October 02, 2014, 09:14:01 AM »


In any event, these people are grossly underserved and under-researched and are easily the most underrepresented group in the United States. White people have inflicted grievous harm on them and the continued use of offensive imagery is despicable. If our only recognition of them as human beings is through the use of grossly distorted caricatures, simplistic renderings of their beliefs and practices, and naïve petulance over objections to our own ignorance then we only further the contempt we have for them as human beings. Anyone educated in the Jesuit tradition should understand this. 

Game, set, match. I eagerly await Chico's rebuttal.

Let's Go Warriors

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #460 on: October 02, 2014, 09:41:42 AM »
Game, set, match. I eagerly await Chico's rebuttal.

Not to be a jag.  But if this is the approach that is going to be taken then in all seriousness.  Names like the "Fighting Irish"

all need to go as well.  Im sure I could dig up a few Irish people that are offended.  In fact, probably in my own family, being that they are all of Irish decent.  And dont tell me that I am not or should not be offended.

You may as well just put down the Fighting alcoholic Irish with the way they have designed their logo.  And no, this is not a joke.

In fact as a Christian, names like the Duke Blue Devils and the Deacon Deamons offend me as well.  We should wipe away any type of religious or anti religious imagery from all sports teams.

And what about celebrating a name like Cowboys?

Not saying you cant wipe away the Indian names.  But why should they be the only group that is "protected"?  This is American, Right?  Trying to strive for "All men are created equal" or No?


Game set match, give me a break...
Warrior As defined by Webster's:
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brandx

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #461 on: October 02, 2014, 10:07:34 AM »
Not to be a jag.  But if this is the approach that is going to be taken then in all seriousness.  Names like the "Fighting Irish"

all need to go as well.  Im sure I could dig up a few Irish people that are offended.  In fact, probably in my own family, being that they are all of Irish decent.  And dont tell me that I am not or should not be offended.

You may as well just put down the Fighting alcoholic Irish with the way they have designed their logo.  And no, this is not a joke.

In fact as a Christian, names like the Duke Blue Devils and the Deacon Deamons offend me as well.  We should wipe away any type of religious or anti religious imagery from all sports teams.

And what about celebrating a name like Cowboys?

Not saying you cant wipe away the Indian names.  But why should they be the only group that is "protected"?  This is American, Right?  Trying to strive for "All men are created equal" or No?


Game set match, give me a break...

You are equating names that you don't like - Cowboys, Indians, Demons etc. - with racial slurs. We want to get rid of "Redskins" not because it refers to Indians, but because it is a racial slur.

Let's Go Warriors

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #462 on: October 02, 2014, 10:10:35 AM »
You are equating names that you don't like - Cowboys, Indians, Demons etc. - with racial slurs. We want to get rid of "Redskins" not because it refers to Indians, but because it is a racial slur.

Sorry but no.  I am referring to Ethnic or Religious "slurs"

You are picking and choosing things you dont like.
Warrior As defined by Webster's:
A person who fights in battles and is known for having courage and skill

CTWarrior

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #463 on: October 02, 2014, 10:16:21 AM »
Nanny-state BS.

Agreed.  It is ridiculous to fine someone for using the name Redskins if that is the legal name of the team whose game they are covering. 
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Benny B

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #464 on: October 02, 2014, 10:35:39 AM »
You are equating names that you don't like - Cowboys, Indians, Demons etc. - with racial slurs. We want to get rid of "Redskins" not because it refers to Indians, but because it is a racial slur.

I'm Irish.  I'm not drunk (right now).  And I don't fight, even when I am drunk.

You tell me.... should I be more or less offended by "Fighting Irish" and its imagery than a Native American is by the Redskins team name and imagery?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Coleman

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #465 on: October 02, 2014, 10:36:51 AM »


nm. I'm done with this discussion.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:45:33 AM by Bleutellenson »

Benny B

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #466 on: October 02, 2014, 10:49:19 AM »
Would you still feel that way if it was the Washington N-words? Washington F-ggots? Washington ch!nks?

Just because it is their legal name doesn't mean it is not a slur.

N-words, f-ggots, and ch!nks?  That's the best you can do?  If you're going to go that far with your example, why leave anything on the table?

Would you still feel that way if it was the Washington Retarded Wetb@ck J!gabo Cun# H@ole Wop G00k K!ike Tw!nk!e Qu&&r Cr@cker C0c0nut B&an&r Porc# M0nkey Sl@nt-Eye G!ppo Hym!e B0hunk Pra!r!e N-Words?

Just because it is their legal name doesn't mean it is not a slur.

There.  FIFY.  You'll win every online message board argument with a team name like that.  You can thank me later.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

brandx

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #467 on: October 02, 2014, 10:54:06 AM »
I'm Irish.  I'm not drunk (right now).  And I don't fight, even when I am drunk.

You tell me.... should I be more or less offended by "Fighting Irish" and its imagery than a Native American is by the Redskins team name and imagery?

What does "drunk" have to do with "Fighting Irish"? And the "fighting" part has to do with bravery of Irish troops at Gettysburg.

Again, many are equating nouns and slurs. Warriors is not a slur - it only became one because of comical, degrading imagery that was used.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #468 on: October 02, 2014, 10:56:28 AM »
Not to be a jag.  But if this is the approach that is going to be taken then in all seriousness.  Names like the "Fighting Irish"

all need to go as well.  Im sure I could dig up a few Irish people that are offended.  In fact, probably in my own family, being that they are all of Irish decent.  And dont tell me that I am not or should not be offended.

You may as well just put down the Fighting alcoholic Irish with the way they have designed their logo.  And no, this is not a joke.

In fact as a Christian, names like the Duke Blue Devils and the Deacon Deamons offend me as well.  We should wipe away any type of religious or anti religious imagery from all sports teams.

And what about celebrating a name like Cowboys?

Not saying you cant wipe away the Indian names.  But why should they be the only group that is "protected"?  This is American, Right?  Trying to strive for "All men are created equal" or No?


Game set match, give me a break...

None of the nicknames that offend you are BY DEFINITION racial slurs. Redskins is. The one point that Chico has been right about in this discussion is that some people will outraged or upset by something. "Irish" is certainly not a slur. The "Fighting" part describes how hard their teams play on the field - inferring it to mean "alcoholic barroom brawler" is firmly in your "I'm a victim" head. If the Washington football team was known as the "Fighting Redskins" only a few morons would take offense at the "Fighting" part.

Animal rights groups can complain about the Bears or the Panthers. Vegetarians can bitch about the Packers. Fundamentalists can object to Blue Devils or Demon Deacons. American Indians can fight against Braves or Warriors. I say whine all you want - just don't draw a moral equivalency between something you don't like and something that by definition is a racial slur. That's intellectually dishonest.

Let's Go Warriors

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #469 on: October 02, 2014, 11:01:56 AM »
None of the nicknames that offend you are BY DEFINITION racial slurs. Redskins is. The one point that Chico has been right about in this discussion is that some people will outraged or upset by something. "Irish" is certainly not a slur. The "Fighting" part describes how hard their teams play on the field - inferring it to mean "alcoholic barroom brawler" is firmly in your "I'm a victim" head. If the Washington football team was known as the "Fighting Redskins" only a few morons would take offense at the "Fighting" part.

Animal rights groups can complain about the Bears or the Panthers. Vegetarians can bitch about the Packers. Fundamentalists can object to Blue Devils or Demon Deacons. American Indians can fight against Braves or Warriors. I say whine all you want - just don't draw a moral equivalency between something you don't like and something that by definition is a racial slur. That's intellectually dishonest.

Who gives a crap if its a racial slur vs ethnic vs religious slurs?

So racial groups are now the only groups that can be discriminated against?

And sorry, but your opinion on the fighting irish is ludicrous. So you get to decide if any Irish People are offended now?  Wow, just wow...

To quote the people from other similar battles.  "Alot of this is because of the imagery"
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 11:05:06 AM by CoachEllensonsCorner »
Warrior As defined by Webster's:
A person who fights in battles and is known for having courage and skill

Lennys Tap

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #470 on: October 02, 2014, 11:19:57 AM »
Who gives a crap if its a racial slur vs ethnic vs religious slurs?

So racial groups are now the only groups that can be discriminated against?

And sorry, but your opinion on the fighting irish is ludicrous. So you get to decide if any Irish People are offended now?  Wow, just wow...

"Blue Devil" and "Demon Deacons" are "religious slurs"? "Irish" or "Fighting Irish" for a football team fighting on the gridiron is an "ethnic slur"? "Cowboys"? Seriously? In what universe? More importantly, in what dictionary? Do you know what a "slur" is?

You want to whine, bitch, moan and play the victim? Knock yourself out. Anyone who can read a dictionary will have a good laugh. Irish People, with a capital P? I'm one of them (75%) and I have no problem with "Fighting Irish".


Coleman

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #471 on: October 02, 2014, 11:25:06 AM »
N-words, f-ggots, and ch!nks?  That's the best you can do?  If you're going to go that far with your example, why leave anything on the table?

There.  FIFY.  You'll win every online message board argument with a team name like that.  You can thank me later.

Not sure what you are getting at. I posted 3 examples of slurs. Redskins is no different.

I deleted it because I'm sick of arguing about it. We are 18 pages in. No one is going to change their mind now.

See ya on another topic.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #472 on: October 02, 2014, 11:29:57 AM »
Who gives a crap if its a racial slur vs ethnic vs religious slurs?

So racial groups are now the only groups that can be discriminated against?

And sorry, but your opinion on the fighting irish is ludicrous. So you get to decide if any Irish People are offended now?  Wow, just wow...

To quote the people from other similar battles.  "Alot of this is because of the imagery"

You're not necessarily wrong, but using that logic, nothing is a slur, and everybody should just get the frack over it.

It's not a bad way to go, until somebody tells your grandmother: "Go back to Mexico, you fracking (insert mexican slur)" and everybody within earshot just shrugs like it's not a big deal.

It is a big deal. Racial slurs aren't appropriate.

Let's all start with that, and then work from there.

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #473 on: October 02, 2014, 11:30:19 AM »
"Blue Devil" and "Demon Deacons" are "religious slurs"? "Irish" or "Fighting Irish" for a football team fighting on the gridiron is an "ethnic slur"? "Cowboys"? Seriously? In what universe? More importantly, in what dictionary? Do you know what a "slur" is?

You want to whine, bitch, moan and play the victim? Knock yourself out. Anyone who can read a dictionary will have a good laugh. Irish People, with a capital P? I'm one of them (75%) and I have no problem with "Fighting Irish".



LMAO

There are a bunch of Indians that are not offended either.

And neither you nor I get to decide what is offensive to an Ethnic or Racial group.  The US Supreme court does.

Directly from the EEOC web site on what can be considered discrimination:

All bases of discrimination that are reasonably implicated by the facts should be included in the charge or complaint (e.g., race, color, national origin, religion, sex, etc.). Failure to include all possible bases may result in a court dismissing a legitimate claim.(29)

You are simply picking race as the only possible grounds for discrimination.  Frankly ridiculous.
Warrior As defined by Webster's:
A person who fights in battles and is known for having courage and skill

Lennys Tap

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Re: Washington Redskins change their name
« Reply #474 on: October 02, 2014, 12:19:15 PM »
LMAO



You are simply picking race as the only possible grounds for discrimination.  Frankly ridiculous.


No, I'm picking slurs as the only possible grounds for offense at nicknames.

So for race/ethnicity that would include Redskins, Micks, Dagos, Ni$$ers, etc.

For gender it would include Bitches or Whores.

For religion it would include Herring Chokers, Papists, Kikes, etc.

There are slurs for every national origin, color, race, sex, religion, etc. They are defined as such.

Irish, Devils, Demons, Cowboys, Packers, Panthers, Braves, etc. may offend the professionally offended like yourself, but most people will laugh at your thin skin and move on - they can tell the difference between a slur and a non slur, and if they can't they can look it up in the dictionary. You have a dictionary, don't you?


 

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