Zagoria: Basketball schools not inclined to form separate league right now

[JoBo2756]

Bahhhhhhh!!!! You have definitely never lived in NYC. "Paying rent" is totally unacceptable. You think Dolan is cool with hosting a craptastic tournament so long as "the check clears?" We're talking about NYC. Brand recognition goes a hell of a lot further than some rent check.    Jeebus.

Referring to Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of NY? I didn't know he had a say in this.

[honkytonk]

Referring to Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of NY? I didn't know he had a say in this.

Or James Dolan, Executive Chairman of The Madison Square Garden Company....nevermind other responsibilities. 

[Aughnanure]

Couldn't the Basketball Schools just pass laws to anger the football schools?

-Mandatory revenue sharing, meaning the bball schools get the same TV dollars as all the others
-Unfavorable divisions or pods
-Ridiculously high exit fee
-Requirements for spending money on basketball, lacrosse
-Altering where the money from NCAA credits goes (i.e., to who won them)

Feel free to add other ideas, but I think an agreement that allows the football schools to leave without having a financial penalty could be made. There just has to be the incentive to release the grip.

[JoBo2756]

Or James Dolan, Executive Chairman of The Madison Square Garden Company....nevermind other responsibilities. 

Gotcha. Well if they have a contract, it doesn't matter until the contract is up. The checks will need to clear.

[Warriors10]

Would we have to keep the crap schools we added though?  Tough to "kick out" schools if you want to keep the BE name and they are in the BE.

[Tugg Speedman]

Couldn't the Basketball Schools just pass laws to anger the football schools?

-Mandatory revenue sharing, meaning the bball schools get the same TV dollars as all the others
-Unfavorable divisions or pods
-Ridiculously high exit fee
-Requirements for spending money on basketball, lacrosse
-Altering where the money from NCAA credits goes (i.e., to who won them)

Feel free to add other ideas, but I think an agreement that allows the football schools to leave without having a financial penalty could be made. There just has to be the incentive to release the grip.

Why kick out the football schools? 

The BE, as it stands now is the seven catholic basketball schools, uconn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple and a bunch of football schools that are not very good at basketball.

If conference realignment stops here (which it probably won't), this is a good basketball conference, certainly on Par with the current makeup of the ACC.

Don't blow it up until it needs to be blown up.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Why kick out the football schools? 

The BE, as it stands now is the seven catholic basketball schools, uconn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple and a bunch of football schools that are not very good at basketball.

If conference realignment stops here (which it probably won't), this is a good basketball conference, certainly on Par with the current makeup of the ACC.

Don't blow it up until it needs to be blown up.

So Argument number 1 is that the conference carousel that produced this "good basketball conference on par with the current makeup of the ACC" is not yet over, so really, it's fair to say that the current state of the Big East Basketball league is the best it will be.

Argument number 2 is that there's 11 schools that are good at basketball, which is fine, but they're still schools with disparate interests. Think Cincy or Memphis wouldn't jump ship immediately if the Big 12 or ACC came calling? I fail to see why MU needs to associate itself with the UCFs, Houstons, SMUs, Tulanes, and God knows what other dreck from Conference USA that the Big East decides to bring along. This was palatable when we still got to play Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pittsburgh. Now we're playing all that crap for the right to play Memphis and Temple?

If football drives the bus, and you don't like where the bus is going, time to get your own bus and take a different road.

[bilsu]

I just think we stand pat and hope the ACC blows up. They are at risk right now, especailly if Maryland can beat the $50 million buyout fee. Maryland did not vote for it and I can see a judge/arbitrator ruling that the fee is too high.

[Benny B]

1) Big East conference bylaws, contracts, etc. are private... but like all private documents, a lawsuit can change all of that.  Enter WVU vs. Big East and voila... public record.  http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf (scroll to pg. 12).

2) The $10M exit fee was effected upon the announcement that Naval Academy is joining the conference; however, it remains $5M for non-football schools.

3) A school merely needs to "attempt to withdraw from the conference" in order to be terminated via a 75% vote of the members.

4) The conference can be dissolved via a 2/3 majority vote.  If so dissolved, the assets of the conference (including the name, tournament shares, etc.) are liquidated/allocated by a simple majority vote of the members present at such meeting.

5) Once a member has delivered intent to withdraw, it loses its vote on the Board of Directors.

6) Football members can take action regarding football (e.g. distribution of football revenue, BCS membership, adding football-only members, etc.) by a simple majority vote of football members.  However, in the event of a football-only membership addition, the non-football members of the conference can force a tie vote on the addition (regardless of how many votes are actually tallied) simply by voting unanimously against said addition.

7) Although Tulane, Memphis, etc. have been voted in, a member does not become a member until it "competes within the Conference in each varsity sport sponsored by the conference for which the Member has a Division I team."  Therefore, Memphis and Tulane do not currently have a seat on the Board of Directors (i.e. a voting interest).

What does this mean?  My interpretation:

* Cincy, UCONN & USF currently control everything football-related within the conference as they are the only "participating" football schools that have not announced their intent to leave the conference.

* With GTown, SJU, Prov, MU, SHU, DePaul & Nova, the conference has only 10 voting members total at this juncture.

* If Cincy & USF voted to add Northern Illinois as football only, they can do so on their own provided that the basketball schools are not unanimous against such a move.  If Cincy & USF voted in favor and everyone else voted against, then the vote is deemed a tie and the members must work together in good faith to resolve the issues raised by adding NIU.

* Right now, the basketball members have the votes necessary to dissolve the conference.  They could then vote to sell the Big East name, TV rights, and other assets to a new, to-be-formed conference by a simple majority vote.  They do not, however, have the votes necessary to dismiss a member.

* Despite an overall majority, the basketball members cannot take any action regarding football.  All football matters are within control of the football schools.  Therefore, the conference cannot simply elect to discontinue football without a majority vote of football members.

[Aughnanure]

1) Big East conference bylaws, contracts, etc. are private... but like all private documents, a lawsuit can change all of that.  Enter WVU vs. Big East and voila... public record.  http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf (scroll to pg. 12).

2) The $10M exit fee was effected upon the announcement that Naval Academy is joining the conference; however, it remains $5M for non-football schools.

3) A school merely needs to "attempt to withdraw from the conference" in order to be terminated via a 75% vote of the members.

4) The conference can be dissolved via a 2/3 majority vote.  If so dissolved, the assets of the conference (including the name, tournament shares, etc.) are liquidated/allocated by a simple majority vote of the members present at such meeting.

5) Once a member has delivered intent to withdraw, it loses its vote on the Board of Directors.

6) Football members can take action regarding football (e.g. distribution of football revenue, BCS membership, adding football-only members, etc.) by a simple majority vote of football members.  However, in the event of a football-only membership addition, the non-football members of the conference can force a tie vote on the addition (regardless of how many votes are actually tallied) simply by voting unanimously against said addition.

7) Although Tulane, Memphis, etc. have been voted in, a member does not become a member until it "competes within the Conference in each varsity sport sponsored by the conference for which the Member has a Division I team."  Therefore, Memphis and Tulane do not currently have a seat on the Board of Directors (i.e. a voting interest).

What does this mean?  My interpretation:

* Cincy, UCONN & USF currently control everything football-related within the conference as they are the only "participating" football schools that have not announced their intent to leave the conference.

* With GTown, SJU, Prov, MU, SHU, DePaul & Nova, the conference has only 10 voting members total at this juncture.

* If Cincy & USF voted to add Northern Illinois as football only, they can do so on their own provided that the basketball schools are not unanimous against such a move.  If Cincy & USF voted in favor and everyone else voted against, then the vote is deemed a tie and the members must work together in good faith to resolve the issues raised by adding NIU.

* Right now, the basketball members have the votes necessary to dissolve the conference.  They could then vote to sell the Big East name, TV rights, and other assets to a new, to-be-formed conference by a simple majority vote.  They do not, however, have the votes necessary to dismiss a member.

* Despite an overall majority, the basketball members cannot take any action regarding football.  All football matters are within control of the football schools.  Therefore, the conference cannot simply elect to discontinue football without a majority vote of football members.

Interesting. Don't like that the basketball schools have NO say in football, and don;t have the power to add a basketball-only either. They've been pushed around for so long by football and soon could be pushed around by the likes of UCF, SMU and Tulane.

[Aughnanure]

Why kick out the football schools?  

The BE, as it stands now is the seven catholic basketball schools, uconn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple and a bunch of football schools that are not very good at basketball.

If conference realignment stops here (which it probably won't), this is a good basketball conference, certainly on Par with the current makeup of the ACC.

Don't blow it up until it needs to be blown up.

Not saying do it right now. But I'm assuming 1 of UConn or Cincy will be gone by March, and likely both. So, in basketball, the league becomes The Catholic 7 + Memphis, Temple....and? Houston? I think that's the breaking point. The A10 had Temple and UMass in their basketball league and I could see the Catholic schools thinking "Hey, why couldn't we do that?"So they could make a push to split in the idea of holding onto Memphis and Temple's basketball programs. Maybe even think about UMass too and 1 other football school that loves bball.

I don't personally think Memphis or Temple would sacrifice their football programs for that, but the Catholics will be looking at the landscape and wondering what is the benefit of the league anymore...and start thinking they could have the strongest part of their basketball league and keep their power too, thru selling Temple and Memphis on this league and/or adding Xavier, Butler, Richmond, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU, Dayton.

[GGGG]

Not saying do it right now. But I'm assuming 1 of UConn or Cincy will be gone by March, and likely both.

To where?  Unless the Big Ten announces something soon, I don't think that happens....and I don't think the Big Ten is going to announce anything soon.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

To where?  Unless the Big Ten announces something soon, I don't think that happens....and I don't think the Big Ten is going to announce anything soon.

Big Ten will wait till after the bowl games to announce its final 2 teams.  That could cause a domino affect with Uconn and Cincy ending up in the ACC or Big 12.

[Aughnanure]

To where?  Unless the Big Ten announces something soon, I don't think that happens....and I don't think the Big Ten is going to announce anything soon.

Big Ten aint staying at 14. Neither is the SEC. They have publicly said they don;t like the scheduling issues. Blood is in the water. There is NO benefit to waiting, what, another year? Why? They'll soon know the buyout that MD will have to pay (not $50 million) and then it will release the floodgates. The money the B1G and SEC are getting is scaring the crap out the ACC teams, and they have no one they can add outside of ND to close that gap (and ND alone probably wouldn't close it entirely anyways).

[Aughnanure]

Big Ten will wait till after the bowl games to announce its final 2 teams.  That will cause a domino affect with Uconn and Cincy ending up in the ACC or Big 12.

Fixed, and that would be the absolute smallest ripple that such a move would make. And don't count out UConn to the B1G.

[GGGG]

OK...we will see.  I don't think it is going to happen though.

[Aughnanure]

OK...we will see.  I don't think it is going to happen though.

Curious, do you have a reason? Or do you just think we're going into one of those dead periods for a year before it starts up again?

We need it to happen soon, but I'm fearful of the ability for this crap to be dragged out too.

[GGGG]

I think the Big Ten has been talking to schools for awhile.  Those schools include UNC, UVa, Georgia Tech and Maryland....and others  I think Maryland finally took the bait...they have an Iowa-guy as President, need $$$, a potential legal-out for the full exit fee, and a booster willing to pay it.  The Big Ten needed to match up with someone and Rutgers made the most sense.  I am not sure those circumstances will be replicated soon with other schools...because I don't think the exit fee issue will be finalized anytime soon.

[Aughnanure]

Is the money not going to get bigger? Are schools not going to need more money suddenly? I actually think universities have an idea of what they will pay. I'm guessing somewhere in the 20s, based on how much every other exit fee has gone down. There are many different ways to argue this legally, and I don't think the fact that Maryland voted against it will be the main one used. Maryland still has to abide the laws of the league, as they've legally signed over some of that autonomy by being a member. The fact that they voted against one, of potentially many, decisions the conference has made over time does not remove their requirement to abide by them. What is up for legal discussion more so, is the size of the fee, which is extremely punitive. And once one has set a precedent...boom.

I also disagree that Rutgers was just a "match." Laugh all you want about their inadequacies athletically, Rutgers is probably the most desirable addition from the Big East since 2003. Their academics are phenomenal, population-size strong, recruiting potential-great, alumni-huge, and own their own state. I thought Rutgers fit better than Maryland actually (and I think Maryland is pretty great too). People don't realize how big Penn St is in Jersey.

But I also just don't see these schools with proud athletic programs standing to watch Iowa make $250 million more than them over 15 years. Even if they have to pay $50 million, it's worth it (and it's not like it's a big $50 million check at once, a lot of it is withholding of TV money)

It might not be soon (i.e., within 6 months) - my fear -  but it will happen

[bilsu]

I think Maryland has a much better argument that the $50 million is unreasonable having voted against it. It is hard to argue that, if you voted for it. Once maryland wins in arbitration it will lower it for all the ACC schools and the flood gates will open.