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Author Topic: Out for Embiid  (Read 21673 times)

The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2012, 10:55:07 AM »
I think you are 100% right...

BUT... what's the point in identifying those players? We don't need to pile on those guys.


I agree.   If Otule gets another year and wants to come back, he's going to be back.  The scholarship issue will be solved elsewhere. We don't have to name the players--but let's stop pretending we don't know how this will be solved..

There. Is. No. Dilemma. Period. End of story.  

Or maybe they don't feel that it's fair to the guys involved to talk about it.  We're talking about late teen/ early 20's guys who are on top of the world being a part of a very good Division 1 team suddenly seeing people speculate where everyone can see about whether they will be the ones to fail and then move on or get jettisoned.

You know, I almost said that if we actually named the players, someone would hijack the thread and start moralizing about how awful it would be to suggest that a kid would lose his scholarship after a year or two of <5 mpg and <1 ppg stats.

I was wrong.  We don't even have to name the players.

So instead, let's all ride off on our unicorns and discuss how super-awesome it would be if this issue is resloved when one of our players grows a money tree this year and picks enough dollars to pay his own way in 2013-14.

Dawson Rental

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2012, 10:57:46 AM »
I agree.   If Otule gets another year and wants to come back, he's going to be back.  The scholarship issue will be solved elsewhere. We don't have to name the players--but let's stop pretending we don't know how this will be solved..

There. Is. No. Dilemma. Period. End of story.  

You know, I almost said that if we actually named the players, someone would hijack the thread and start moralizing about how awful it would be to suggest that a kid would lose his scholarship after a year or two of <5 mpg and <1 ppg stats.

I was wrong.  We don't even have to name the players.

So instead, let's all ride off on our unicorns and discuss how super-awesome it would be if this issue is resloved when one of our players grows a money tree this year and picks enough dollars to pay his own way in 2013-14.


Mine's an appaloosa.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2012, 11:04:27 AM »
Well, what does "requite PT" mean?

Are you talking about injury, or if he doesn't earn enough PT?

The bet can be stupid/friendly. I'm not trying to humiliate anybody, I just think predicting a 2-and-done for this kid is overshooting the mark by quite a bit. A tiny percentage of players make the NBA, and even less are able to do it after 2 years.

Injury mainly, or if he goes to a place like KU or UT and has to sit behind or share minutes with a 5 star one and done type player for a year or two.  It happened to Thomas Robinson at KU with the Morris twins, then once he got the necessary PT to show off his considerable skills he was gone.  If Embiid has the opportunity to see 20 mpg his freshman year then 30+ his sophomore year I think NBA scouts will be drooling.  I understand your point that early entry is rare, but guys with his frame and potential are even rarer.

How about if I win you have to shave your mustache, and if you win I have to finish chewing the cookie?

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
Injury mainly, or if he goes to a place like KU or UT and has to sit behind or share minutes with a 5 star one and done type player for a year or two.  It happened to Thomas Robinson at KU with the Morris twins, then once he got the necessary PT to show off his considerable skills he was gone.  If Embiid has the opportunity to see 20 mpg his freshman year then 30+ his sophomore year I think NBA scouts will be drooling.  I understand your point that early entry is rare, but guys with his frame and potential are even rarer.

How about if I win you have to shave your mustache, and if you win I have to finish chewing the cookie?

Well, if he goes to a school and can't find the court because somebody is better, then he probably shouldn't be drafted should he? Robinson is an example, but who knows if he was good enough as a soph. to get drafted.

Anyways, the stakes of the bet are low, so it's all good. Embiid might end up being a very good college player... but calling a 2-and-out is risky business, my friend.

We'll revisit in 2015. I'm sure everybody will be looking forward to that.

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2012, 11:33:27 AM »
Well, if he goes to a school and can't find the court because somebody is better, then he probably shouldn't be drafted should he? Robinson is an example, but who knows if he was good enough as a soph. to get drafted.

Anyways, the stakes of the bet are low, so it's all good. Embiid might end up being a very good college player... but calling a 2-and-out is risky business, my friend.

We'll revisit in 2015. I'm sure everybody will be looking forward to that.

I already marked it down on my invisible calendar

The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2012, 11:54:18 AM »
Let's examine how the truth that you claim everybody knows regarding transfers meshes with the facts. By my count 7 players have transferred under Buzz. One (McMorrow) due to illness, one (Hazel) due to bad behaivor, two (Maymon and Smith) who were playing but didn't like/fit in with the program and three (Mbao, Williams and Jones) due to playing time/lack of production. That's less than half, and two of those three reportedly also had other issues.


Let's look at your list with some level of honesty. 

1. McMorrow didn't leave because of illness.  He regained his health, and actually played at Tennessee Tech. MU didn't file an appeal to regain his eligiblity. I suspect they would have if he was a stud in practice and Buzz thought he showed 15 ppg/10 rpg /5 bpg potential. 
2. You forgot Roseboro.
3. Hazel's "bad behavior" would have been easily forgiven and he'd have been offered another chance if his last name were the likes of Butler, Hayward, Johnson-Odom, or Crowder.  
4. Maymon
5. Smth
6. You forgot Newbill
7. You forgot Durley
8. Mbao
9. Jones
10. Williams.

So, if we're honest, 8 of 10 left because they were either already well down toward the bottom the depth chart (Jones, Mbao, Williams, Hazel) or Buzz perceived that's where they would wind up (Newbill, Durley, McMorrow, Roseboro).

And the other two left of their own accord, mid season.

The record speaks for itself.  If we're over the limit at the end of this year, and Buzz needs to make a choice on how to get down to 13, we're going to do it at the bottom of the depth chart, not the top.



Dawson Rental

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2012, 11:59:20 AM »
Let's see.  This is a thread about Embiid not including MU on his final list of three which means that MU has one less recruit to make room for.  Yet, you bring the discussion around to who Marquette will have to cut to make room for JJJ, and you interpret this as me hijacking the thread?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:33:11 AM by LittleMurs »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

Pakuni

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2012, 12:05:43 PM »
So instead, let's all ride off on our unicorns and discuss how super-awesome it would be if this issue is resloved when one of our players grows a money tree this year and picks enough dollars to pay his own way in 2013-14.


Better yet, maybe Buzz will adopt someone.

brewcity77

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2012, 12:13:49 PM »
Jones and Williams didn't leave because they were at the bottom of the depth chart. Neither did Singleton, who you left off your list. Roseboro and Durley left vacant scholarships. We were one under in 2009 and two under this year, so that doesn't really wash. Buzz wanted to reshape the roster when Hazel left, but Cooby proved if you kept your nose clean and busted your ass, you could prove you belonged. Hazel's fault he didn't do that for the new coach. Newbill is really the only case you have added here, though he couldn't transfer as he never made it here.

As far as where Buzz cuts on that depth chart, if it comes to it, the record does speak for itself and the choice is fairly clear, but you don't understand the music.
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The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2012, 02:36:31 PM »
Jones and Williams didn't leave because they were at the bottom of the depth chart. Neither did Singleton, who you left off your list. Roseboro and Durley left vacant scholarships. We were one under in 2009 and two under this year, so that doesn't really wash. Buzz wanted to reshape the roster when Hazel left, but Cooby proved if you kept your nose clean and busted your ass, you could prove you belonged. Hazel's fault he didn't do that for the new coach. Newbill is really the only case you have added here, though he couldn't transfer as he never made it here.

As far as where Buzz cuts on that depth chart, if it comes to it, the record does speak for itself and the choice is fairly clear, but you don't understand the music.

I stand by my orignal comment.  If we're oversubscribed and need to make room for a 4- or 5-star player like Embiid on the 2013-14 roster, and Otule is healthy and granted an extra year, its going to be the #11 through #13 player on the depth chart or one of the incoming recruits who leave--not Otule.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2012, 02:48:56 PM »
I stand by my orignal comment.  If we're oversubscribed and need to make room for a 4- or 5-star player like Embiid on the 2013-14 roster, and Otule is healthy and granted an extra year, its going to be the #11 through #13 player on the depth chart or one of the incoming recruits who leave--not Otule.


I don't think you are wrong, but to be fair, one of those guys might be leaving anyways.

Jamail Jones transferred, MU got Lockett. I don't think Buzz told Jamail to leave... at least it doesn't appear that way.


NersEllenson

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2012, 03:08:16 PM »
I stand by my orignal comment.  If we're oversubscribed and need to make room for a 4- or 5-star player like Embiid on the 2013-14 roster, and Otule is healthy and granted an extra year, its going to be the #11 through #13 player on the depth chart or one of the incoming recruits who leave--not Otule.


Why do virtually all of your posts attempt to paint MU and Buzz in the worst possible way?  If you don't like the way the program is being operated - don't be a "fan," and do everyone a favor and take a hike....I'm sure there are other programs who will operate in a fashion you approve of - such as IU.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2012, 03:15:21 PM »
There is no schollie to save as of right now, though.  We're one over if Otule comes back and all full if he doesn't. 

That assumes that Mayo is going to get reinstated.  If he is done with MU, then we are full for next year if Otule returns.

Correct?

Bocephys

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2012, 03:18:39 PM »
That assumes that Mayo is going to get reinstated.  If he is done with MU, then we are full for next year if Otule returns.

Correct?

Correct.  There are many variables in play, I just wanted to point out that we are not currently "banking" a scholarship as we have been doing in recent years.

The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2012, 04:58:46 PM »
Why do virtually all of your posts attempt to paint MU and Buzz in the worst possible way?  If you don't like the way the program is being operated - don't be a "fan," and do everyone a favor and take a hike....I'm sure there are other programs who will operate in a fashion you approve of - such as IU.

How in the world does this paint Buzz in the worst possible way?

I mean, honestly, he was out there recruiting, trying to get a commitment from Embiid that if successful may have created a situation where we had 14 scholarships offered.

If he had been successful (and nobody qualified for the NBA and Otule as expected gets his waiver), someone  on the team would have had to leave.   

Can you disagree with any of this?

If not, then *I* wouldn't have created that situation.  *Buzz Williams* would have created that situation. So to the extent that you think oversigning paints Buzz in a bad light, It's Buzz himself that did it.

I only wanted to discuss HOW Buzz would have addressed the situation that he tried to create.

Frankly, I don't get what bugs you about this.  Every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.

But let's have you on the record--do you want Buzz to stop recruiting because oversigning puts him in the worst possible light? 

Because you can't have it both ways--you can't sit here cheer Buzz on to continue to recruit more players unless you're also willing to accept that it may creates a situation where someone has to leave.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2012, 07:05:50 PM »
How in the world does this paint Buzz in the worst possible way?

I mean, honestly, he was out there recruiting, trying to get a commitment from Embiid that if successful may have created a situation where we had 14 scholarships offered.

If he had been successful (and nobody qualified for the NBA and Otule as expected gets his waiver), someone  on the team would have had to leave.   

Can you disagree with any of this?

If not, then *I* wouldn't have created that situation.  *Buzz Williams* would have created that situation. So to the extent that you think oversigning paints Buzz in a bad light, It's Buzz himself that did it.

I only wanted to discuss HOW Buzz would have addressed the situation that he tried to create.

Frankly, I don't get what bugs you about this.  Every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.

But let's have you on the record--do you want Buzz to stop recruiting because oversigning puts him in the worst possible light? 

Because you can't have it both ways--you can't sit here cheer Buzz on to continue to recruit more players unless you're also willing to accept that it may creates a situation where someone has to leave.


Yup.  Real talk.

Bieberhole69

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2012, 07:22:03 PM »
How in the world does this paint Buzz in the worst possible way?

I mean, honestly, he was out there recruiting, trying to get a commitment from Embiid that if successful may have created a situation where we had 14 scholarships offered.

If he had been successful (and nobody qualified for the NBA and Otule as expected gets his waiver), someone  on the team would have had to leave.   

Can you disagree with any of this?

If not, then *I* wouldn't have created that situation.  *Buzz Williams* would have created that situation. So to the extent that you think oversigning paints Buzz in a bad light, It's Buzz himself that did it.

I only wanted to discuss HOW Buzz would have addressed the situation that he tried to create.

Frankly, I don't get what bugs you about this.  Every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.

But let's have you on the record--do you want Buzz to stop recruiting because oversigning puts him in the worst possible light? 

Because you can't have it both ways--you can't sit here cheer Buzz on to continue to recruit more players unless you're also willing to accept that it may creates a situation where someone has to leave.

How dare you question Coach Buzz!

The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2012, 08:06:57 PM »
Yup.  Real talk.

Sorry, I made the mortal sin of posting beyond the limits of scoop's reality distortion field.  








Skatastrophy

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2012, 08:21:43 PM »
Sorry, I made the mortal sin of posting beyond the limits of scoop's reality distortion field. 


Now you lost me, but I'll post pictures with you :)


GGGG

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2012, 09:04:41 PM »
That assumes that Mayo is going to get reinstated. 


I wouldn't make that assumption.  I would be very surprised if he plays another game for MU.

MUCrew

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2012, 09:34:21 PM »
Sorry, I made the mortal sin of posting beyond the limits of scoop's reality distortion field.  


Are they in the Griffin's house?

NersEllenson

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2012, 12:27:50 AM »
How in the world does this paint Buzz in the worst possible way?

I mean, honestly, he was out there recruiting, trying to get a commitment from Embiid that if successful may have created a situation where we had 14 scholarships offered.

If he had been successful (and nobody qualified for the NBA and Otule as expected gets his waiver), someone  on the team would have had to leave.   

Can you disagree with any of this?

I only wanted to discuss HOW Buzz would have addressed the situation that he tried to create

Frankly, I don't get what bugs you about this.  Every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.


Ugh...I think you just answered your own question...and so why are you making a big deal out of Buzz recruiting Embiid?  As you wrote, every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.  So there...there's your answer...so why are we even having a discussion?? 

And lastly, I don't think oversigning is a big deal...and you don't see me beating the drum here calling into question the practice...and I don't care if it creates a situation where a player may need to leave...because as you said....it happense very year at every major program.  Par for the course...so why are we having the discussion? 
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

The Equalizer

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2012, 11:16:39 AM »
Ugh...I think you just answered your own question...and so why are you making a big deal out of Buzz recruiting Embiid?  As you wrote, every year at every major program the bottom few players leave their programs.  So there...there's your answer...so why are we even having a discussion?? 

We're having the dicussion because your notoriously thin skin apparently prohibits having opinions on what might happen if Buzz landed a 14th recruit.

I guess according to you we're allowed to cheer Buzz on and hope he actually lands that 14th recruit--especially if its a 4- or 5-star player. But even though we all know that if 14 players are projected on the roster after Spring Signing, one of them probably isn't going to be back--we can't talk about it. 

Is that your view?

Please, if I'm wrong, explain.  Because to me, it sounds like you only want to talk about what's good about landing a 5-star, but pretend we don't have to make room for that person on the roster.

And lastly, I don't think oversigning is a big deal...and you don't see me beating the drum here calling into question the practice...and I don't care if it creates a situation where a player may need to leave...because as you said....it happense very year at every major program.  Par for the course...so why are we having the discussion? 

So am I to believe that you neither care nor have an opinion about who would leave if we were oversigned? 


RawdogDX

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2012, 03:34:55 PM »
Well, I was speaking relative to MU basketball but I guess when you put it in perspective it really isn't all that "crushing" in the greater scheme of things. The reason it's such a disappointment though is because of how hard the staff worked to get Embiid and what it would have meant to the program to sign him. I honestly think Embiid could have been a program elevator and he could have help set the foundation for future top big man recruits to come to MU. MU will have another chance at getting one of the bigs from Illinois in 2014 and Stone in 15 but I felt Buzz was so close to the top of the hill with this one only to fall all the way down to the bottom.

On the positive side though, I think this looks good for Otule returning for a 6th year.

People on this board get upset when you describe things as 'Soul crushing.'  I made the switch to 'unicorn raping' so that people wouldn't start discussing the philosophical implications of having ones soul crushed.

GGGG

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Re: Out for Embiid
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2012, 03:41:38 PM »
We're having the dicussion because your notoriously thin skin apparently prohibits having opinions on what might happen if Buzz landed a 14th recruit.

I guess according to you we're allowed to cheer Buzz on and hope he actually lands that 14th recruit--especially if its a 4- or 5-star player. But even though we all know that if 14 players are projected on the roster after Spring Signing, one of them probably isn't going to be back--we can't talk about it. 


Furthermore, if "everyone does it," why would it be putting Buzz in a bad light to point it out?

 

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