Poll: What Should Marquette Do?

[Dawson Rental]

I look for Georgetown and Villanova to somehow end up in the ACC as hoops-only members. If that happens, I doubt the A-10 schools you mention would jump to join MU and what's left of the Big East. More like MU, DePaul, and St Johns scrambling to enter the A-10.

Aside from the fact that you seem to be in a fatalistic mood today, can you provide any support for saying that?  I'd be especially interested in any reasons you would have for why the ACC would be at all interested in adding Georgetown and Villanova.  The only chance either school would have of joining the ACC would be if one of them was invited to even up the number of basketball only schools with ND.

[Dawson Rental]

Just cut to the end, already...

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
St. Joe's

Marquette
DePaul
Saint Louis
Dayton
Xavier
Creighton or Butler

Creighton or Butler?  LOL!  Why would anyone take Creighton over Butler?

[MerrittsMustache]

Creighton or Butler?  LOL!  Why would anyone take Creighton over Butler?

Because Butler's window is closing/has closed.

[Dawson Rental]

Because Butler's window is closing/has closed.

What do you mean?  Is the Butler program on its way down, in your opinion?

[chapman]

Creighton or Butler?  LOL!  Why would anyone take Creighton over Butler?

2012 Attendance:
Rank School Games Total Average
6. Creighton 16 266,632 16,665
78. Butler 19 125,376 6,599

[UDPride]

I can tell you from the A10's perspective, those institutions are not going anywhere -- namely Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Butler, St. Joe, etc.  The league just expanded with Butler and VCU and is the best basketball only league in the country.

There is zero incentive for some of those schools to pick up and leave the complete security, certainty, and future of the A10, for some half-baked new conference in a new world order of college athletics that has exit fees, entrance fees, unknown certainty, unknown security, new rivals, new geographies, new travel partners, no TV package, and no automatic postseason NCAA bid.

The A10 members are exactly where they want to be. They are ALREADY in a good, stable, secure basketball conference with 100% security.  The postseason tourney is moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn this season. Everything about the league is on the up-tick. It is a destination league for basketball schools -- not an exit platform. The only schools leaving are those with grandiose, half-baked plans for BCS football.

Furthermore, the A10 doesn't even need to expand. They are going to be at 14 teams when the smoke clears from Charlotte and Temple. Going to 16 is not a priority or even likely a roundtable agenda item. The only way Marquette or DePaul associates with A10 basketball schools is if they beg for mercy and the A10 sends them an invitation. The BE hoops schools are no longer driving this train; they are in the caboose at the mercy of everyone else. They lost all of their leverage because they held on to football money for far too long. The time to get out was about five years ago. That window has passed because other conferences have been proactive to improve their own situations and lock in their future identities.

Fans thinking they can just break from the BE football schools and "the A10 brand schools will follow us" are over-reaching. Marquette and DePaul simply dont have the leverage anymore. Your name alone does not trump conference security -- and the A10 already has that.  The A10 will never be the Big East of 5 years ago, but nothing ever will.  But it doesnt have to be. The thing about A10 schools is they've never tried to be something they aren't.  While it may have cost them in terms of money and prestige over the last 10 years, it's paying off now because most members have always had the same goals in mind. Everyone was rowing in the same direction.

There is a lot of loyalty among member basketball institutions of the A10. Even among the haves and have-nots.  Based on performance, Fordham or Duquesne or LaSalle could have been kicked out years ago. But the conference values the relationships and sees the league as being in it together. You have members with 13,000-seat arenas and 3,000-seat Arenas.  So you can also put away the idea that the A10 will kick a couple bottomfeeders out to make room for new members. No A10 school will be asked or even encouraged to leave. If they leave, it will be of their own doing. And that's unlikely in the near future.

Having said all of this, I dont think BE basketball schools do much until Louisville and UC decide what to do. Louisville has already publicly stated they want out. UC will follow in their shadow (or attempt to).  The Big East is a giant fustercluck however. You have teams spread all over the country, abysmal scheduling issues and odd travel and travel partners, fewer and fewer historical rivalries, fractured fan bases from different geographies with little or nothing in common, and two completely different sets of academic and spiritual values trying to homogenize.  You have small private catholic schools trying to assimilate with large state schools attempting to become a football factory.  You might as well be mixing oil and water.

The A10 has none of these problems. Which is why those members are putting roots down.

[GGGG]

That's a cute theory UDPride.

I can pretty much guaranty that if the BE basketball schools decide to separate and invite Xavier and two of their cohorts, that they would jump at that.  Without question. 

You think Xavier would rather be in a conference with Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova?  Or LaSalle and St. Bonnies?  Cmon....

[Groin_pull]

That's a cute theory UDPride.

I can pretty much guaranty that if the BE basketball schools decide to separate and invite Xavier and two of their cohorts, that they would jump at that.  Without question. 

You think Xavier would rather be in a conference with Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova?  Or LaSalle and St. Bonnies?  Cmon....

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

[Pakuni]

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

Even though Swofford and other conference officials say they're not adding any more schools?
What do you know that they don't?

[chapman]

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

So they're lying and also want to get to 20+ basketball schools just to eliminate viable teams for Marquette to form a conference in?  Someone's paranoid.  If that happened, the Big 12 would probably follow suit to strengthen its hoops brand and MU would be first on their invite list.  Or they'd poach half the discontent ACC schools.

That's a cute theory UDPride.

I can pretty much guaranty that if the BE basketball schools decide to separate and invite Xavier and two of their cohorts, that they would jump at that.  Without question. 

You think Xavier would rather be in a conference with Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova?  Or LaSalle and St. Bonnies?  Cmon....

This.  When other major conferences consolidate the last thing the good A-10 schools want to offer when negotiating a TV deal is their Forham-Duquesne matchup.  They're not going to cower in a corner for their "security" baby blanket with the chance to ditch the dead weight, up their brand, and dramatically grow revenue.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The A10 has none of these problems. Which is why those members are putting roots down.

You're not entirely wrong.

However, if/when the Big East breaks, several A10 schools could/would change their mind.

It's similar to recruiting. A recruit may really like St. Bonnies, or Temple... but if Nova comes calling, you can bet he's going to listen.

[tower912]

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

Only if they start up D1 football and only if the rest of the ACC can convince Maryland to let G-town in.    None of the rest of the major conferences are looking to add any more basketball only schools.   ACC took ND thinking they can get NC to join in Football in 5 years plus the name.   

[GGGG]

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

The ACC has already stated, through multiple sources, that they are done expanding and do not expect to add other members.  I believe them more than I believe you.

[brewcity77]

You assume Georgetown and Villanova will be part of this. Forget it. The ACC will take them as hoops-only members—strengthening their Eastern presence.

This is just kind of ignorant to some factors. First, if the ACC is lying and wants another basketball-only, it will only be one, not both. Second, the idea of UMD blocking Georgetown is very realistic. Third, I don't think anyone would doubt that the ACC would rather try to convince ND to join in football and add Louisville or UConn than they would try to add basketball-only schools.

And what UD is failing to recognize is that money talks. The A-10 is a nice conference, but Georgetown, Villanova, St John's, and Marquette are all bigger names than any of their current schools when it comes to a major TV deal. Schools like Butler and VCU have no league loyalty having just joined this year and would jump at the chance to move up. And schools like Xavier, St Louis, and Dayton actually have more in common with schools like Marquette than they do many of their current companions. But regardless, a likely annual payout north of $1 million and higher NCAA win credits would be a huge windfall for any A-10 school.

Sorry, it's nothing against the A-10, but if the Big East basketball-only schools truly wanted to form a new league, any A-10 schools would be stupid not to jump at the opportunity, and any intelligent alumni would be calling for the heads of any administrators that blocked such a lucrative and profile-raising move.

[Groin_pull]

The ACC has already stated, through multiple sources, that they are done expanding and do not expect to add other members.  I believe them more than I believe you.

Right, just like the ACC didn't want partial members like ND.

[Groin_pull]

This is just kind of ignorant to some factors. First, if the ACC is lying and wants another basketball-only, it will only be one, not both. Second, the idea of UMD blocking Georgetown is very realistic. Third, I don't think anyone would doubt that the ACC would rather try to convince ND to join in football and add Louisville or UConn than they would try to add basketball-only schools.

And what UD is failing to recognize is that money talks. The A-10 is a nice conference, but Georgetown, Villanova, St John's, and Marquette are all bigger names than any of their current schools when it comes to a major TV deal. Schools like Butler and VCU have no league loyalty having just joined this year and would jump at the chance to move up. And schools like Xavier, St Louis, and Dayton actually have more in common with schools like Marquette than they do many of their current companions. But regardless, a likely annual payout north of $1 million and higher NCAA win credits would be a huge windfall for any A-10 school.

Sorry, it's nothing against the A-10, but if the Big East basketball-only schools truly wanted to form a new league, any A-10 schools would be stupid not to jump at the opportunity, and any intelligent alumni would be calling for the heads of any administrators that blocked such a lucrative and profile-raising move.

Perhaps, but Georgetown and Villanova bring serious academic cache. Unlike most conferences, the ACC still prides itself on being a top academic conference...so the classroom still matters to school presidents. I think they'll find room for two elite institutions.

[brewcity77]

Perhaps, but Georgetown and Villanova bring serious academic cache. Unlike most conferences, the ACC still prides itself on being a top academic conference...so the classroom still matters to school presidents. I think they'll find room for two elite institutions.

I just don't buy them wanting to go to 17. It's too unwieldy a number. And why add schools with no hope of ever joining as full members if ND does eventually join for football? I don't trust the ACC, but if they add another basketball-only, it won't be more than one.

[Abode4life]

Perhaps, but Georgetown and Villanova bring serious academic cache. Unlike most conferences, the ACC still prides itself on being a top academic conference...so the classroom still matters to school presidents. I think they'll find room for two elite institutions.

I'm assuming you include UNC in the "classroom still matters" part...

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Is their any way the B1G considers adding 2 basketball only schools like MU and Depaul (creates rivalries with Northwestern, Illinois) to make a 12 team football, 14 team basketball conference? I think the idea of the all basketball conference with the A10 schools sounds like a very good and likely idea but I for one would love to play all of the state schools and play Wisconsin twice a year (more gloating opportunities).

[77ncaachamps]

Create a new league: The Big Midwest or the Great Midwest

[Goose]

In all seriousness, this why we hired an AD with experience. He has to be working the phones and selling our program. We should have a decent plan in place because this was brewing for sometime. I would hope that LW has to 2-3 plans in mind and is working all of them. We will know soon if we are remaining a player on national scale or moving towards new identity for program.

This really is a perfect storm working against us and we will see what the program means to overall identiity of the school. Fingers crossed, but afraid for the worst.

[Dr. Blackheart]

In all seriousness, this why we hired an AD with experience. He has to be working the phones and selling our program. We should have a decent plan in place because this was brewing for sometime. I would hope that LW has to 2-3 plans in mind and is working all of them. We will know soon if we are remaining a player on national scale or moving towards new identity for program.

This really is a perfect storm working against us and we will see what the program means to overall identiity of the school. Fingers crossed, but afraid for the worst.

I think Larry has one plan, and one plan only. Hold his cards. MU has ESPN and NCAA conference team money through the BE coming to them over the next couple of years. MU will not pay an exit fee either for basketball TV money in the A10.  The BE is a damaged brand but still stronger than the next tier. 

[WI inferiority Complexes]

This board really needs basketball games to start.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

This board really needs basketball games to start.

+1

[AirPunches]

MU and the other Catholic schools need to think outside the box in order for their programs to not take a step back in the coming years. In my opinion, going to the A-10 would be an absolute death kneel to the program and it's not realistic to join on with any of the other conferences as a basketball only member at this point in time.

I think MU should stay where they are at right now and wait and see what Louisville and Cincinnati end up doing. No way the ACC takes Georgetown/Villanova right now because I believe that the ACC is going to use a wait and see approach at least for a few years in hopes that ND will eventually join as a full member. They can add a basketball only school at any time and every basketball only school in the Big East would jump in a second. No point in rushing that.

So, here's my proposed plan if Louisville and Cincinnati end up joining the Big12. Since the basketball product would be just about finished in the Big East, I think that MU and 7 other Catholic schools should form their own conference. So, it would be: MU, Depaul, Gtown, Nova, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and (Xavier for example). With 8 good basketball schools you could form your own identity as a united conference and play a double round robin (14 games).

The ACC would have 15 schools assuming they don't take any other schools or have any more defections. Then assuming that each school would play each other they would also play 14 games. Now assuming ESPN would be the carrier of the Catholic league's conference games and also the ACC, maybe the Catholic league could kind of have like Catholic League-ACC challenge (like Big10-ACC challenge) for those last 4 games that are set before the season. So, each Catholic team would play 4 ACC teams per year and the ACC teams would play 3-4 Catholic teams a year. It could be arranged where Duke and UNC play twice and Syracuse and Gtown would always play and same with ND and Marquette for example. So, the 4 crossover games would count as conference games and both conferences could get to 18 games.

Big East tournament could be played in NYC and the top (12?) ACC schools and top (6?) Catholic schools could get invited.

These conferences could have separate ESPN television deals and brand themselves as being separate yet still compete against each other 4 times a year. It's kind of like what ND is doing for football in the ACC and what they previously did in the Big East. These basketball only schools in the Big East do have value, maybe not enough to warrant their own spot in one of these power conferences, but some value nonetheless where a plan like this could work. It would take a lot of negotiation between the Big East, the ACC, and ESPN but it could be done. Some of you guys mentioned the power conferences will look to add bball only schools once the football moves are done (or at least find ways for additional revenue), and a deal like this could give the ACC a big advantage in the future.

Obviously, this a far fetched plan and most likely sounds as ludicrous as Marquette joining the Big10 and playing the Badgers twice a year but the point remains and these basketball only schools need to think outside the box in order to avoid a major step back (cough A-10). So, like the rest of you, I hope MU is able to find a spot and keep what we have going here.