The Biggest Disappointment

[MUMac]

Let's all talk coach speak from now on so not to upset anyone. It's a message board for voicing opinions. My opinion is Vander played bad and forced a lot of stuff. Vander should absolutely not be shooting threes within the context of the offense or anytime there is more than 8 seconds on the shot clock.  He is a horrible shooter period. If he keeps shooting 3's at his current clip for the season (3/8), he will undoubtedly have had some help from Tebow. He has played to what should be expected in 3 out of 5 games. He had one horrible game and one off the charts game.

Also, there is plenty of chatter when there is a win versus a top 25 opponent. Winning cupcakes isn't that interesting and hard to garner opinions about. Count the posts after the Syracuse win last year.

You can be a "fan" and think a player is bad or had a bad game or made poor decisions... it's ok, really!

Also, backup players on MU actually have game time experience so you can compare them to starters. It's not a backup QB thought. Mayo vs Vander will be a decision that Buzz will have to make a lot this year depending on different situations.

A little sensitive when someone levels criticism at you, no?  Give it, then take it my friend.  Your posts were definitely some that I was referencing.  I truly suspect your understanding of basketball is limited, but your ability to whine and criticize is unlimited.

[GGGG]

Let's all talk coach speak from now on so not to upset anyone. It's a message board for voicing opinions. My opinion is Vander played bad and forced a lot of stuff. Vander should absolutely not be shooting threes within the context of the offense or anytime there is more than 8 seconds on the shot clock.  He is a horrible shooter period. If he keeps shooting 3's at his current clip for the season (3/8), he will undoubtedly have had some help from Tebow.

You do realize that 3/8, or 37.5%, would have made him the second most accurate three point shooter on last year's team...behind only Buycks.

Yeah, that's a better percentage than DJO, Jae, JFB, etc. shot last year.  I guess Buzz should have told them not to shoot "in the context of the offense" last year either.  Damn DJO for winning that game against Syracuse...didn't he know that he was only shooting 36.4% from three and therefore had no business shooting???

[nycwarrior]

This week a new study showed that one in five American adults now takes psychotic drugs to manage their mental health.

After reading this board for a few days you'd have to wonder whether some of our posters are on too many or too few meds.

On the crazy positive side we've got one of the greatest posters in the deep history of the interwebs - our very own bamamarquettefan - posting stuff about how elite we are while we're still knee deep in Little Sisters if the Poor season. Bama - I always want to read everything you write but look what you're doing to the mentally ill of suburban Milwaukee.

On the other side we've got a kid in Vanderbilt Blue who has shown a lot of improvement over the first few games and now we've got a significant number of serious fans ready to give up on him?

The take away on Vander after this one? Bad game for most of the team and during the 25-minute funk, he wasn't the one who pulled us out. However, in the end we LOSE this game without the mid-court steal and heads up assist to Crowder for the break-away.

The kid was down for a long time and he came back with a heads up play that won the game. That shows maturity and toughness in my opinion.

We won. Let's work on our press break and zone offense and help Jamil Wilson to find a significant role. We need his size, strength, skill set to do some rebounding in traffic where we still look a but slow.

Even to the heavily medicated.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

When we went to the tournament last year, I'm pretty sure no one was talking about how craptily we played against UWM.

Season checklist
(x) Non-conference near-miss against inferior opponent (sky falls on Scoop)
( ) Non-conference stinker to inferior opponent (more sky-falling)
( ) Non-conference loss on big stage convinces board MU not ready for Big East
( ) Unmentionable conference loss
( ) Road Game we weren't supposed to win
( ) Late surge
( ) Top-half Big East Finish

[Golden Avalanche]

tonight I felt was Vander Blue.  I knew was not a 26 point player a few nights ago but the other games he let the game come to him.  Offensively tonight, he looked much like he did last
year taking poor shots and missing easy ones as well.  The small forward has to be able to score.  Also, Todd Mayo looked like a freshman today.  To the people who have seen Juan
Anderson in the summer, does he help this team in the future?  I hope Buzz does not keep in the dog house to long.  Time to play him.

In the context of the game, yeah, Vander was a disappointment. He'd agree with you. But he did what he always does (attack the rim) and tonight it was some bad luck that he had three lay-ins roll out. He gets those down and no one notices his performance.

Overall, I think Vander has been a revelation. I'm not nearly as queasy as last season when he attacks. The game will come to him. He's played 40 times in a career that should see 100 more opportunities. Looks to me like a normal progression of a Sophomore.

As for Mayo, agree he was bad tonight. The game seemed out of sync but as a Freshman I'd expect it to be that way. Just because his first couple were good doesn't mean we should suddenly expect a pure 12 from him every night.

Finally, on Juan, Sultan nails the point. Why do people believe he's in the doghouse? There is no basis for that claim at this time. He's got a lot going against him: 1) He's a Freshman; 2) He was injured in training camp; 3) He was suspended to start the season; 4) Buzz is playing every single guy on the roster.

Add all that up and it's not like Juan has a right to the rotation minutes. He must earn that privilege. Besides, I'm not so sure Juan would have been the secret key to break down that match-up amoeba crap that Evans threw at Marquette. It confounded 10 of our kids, why wouldn't it confound the 11th?

[mu03eng]

Let's all talk coach speak from now on so not to upset anyone. It's a message board for voicing opinions. My opinion is Vander played bad and forced a lot of stuff. Vander should absolutely not be shooting threes within the context of the offense or anytime there is more than 8 seconds on the shot clock.  He is a horrible shooter period. If he keeps shooting 3's at his current clip for the season (3/8), he will undoubtedly have had some help from Tebow. He has played to what should be expected in 3 out of 5 games. He had one horrible game and one off the charts game.

Also, there is plenty of chatter when there is a win versus a top 25 opponent. Winning cupcakes isn't that interesting and hard to garner opinions about. Count the posts after the Syracuse win last year.

You can be a "fan" and think a player is bad or had a bad game or made poor decisions... it's ok, really!

Also, backup players on MU actually have game time experience so you can compare them to starters. It's not a backup QB thought. Mayo vs Vander will be a decision that Buzz will have to make a lot this year depending on different situations.

I have zero issue with sharing your opinion.  I happen to think your dead wrong but thats the point of a message board, however what I object to is the hyperbole that serves no purpose other than to rile others up.  At the end of the day you expressed your opinion, I expressed mine that I thought you were wrong and now you play oh this is a message board its for opinions card.  Defend your opinion or move on

[bilsu]

First of all the difference between a good season and a bad season is who wins the close games. Two years ago we won three overtime games in a row on the road, which made it be a good season. Lose two out of those three and it was a bad season. Losing one of them probably would have cost us an NCCA bid. So far we are 1-0 in close games and that is a big positive. Second of all, if you believe Buzz, almost all of MU's practices are spent on defense, which means we have not practiced a zone offense. Remember we beat Syracuse both games last year and therefore I am not worried about us being able to handle a zone. Also, I do believe a close game like this, especially after we previously blew them out, allows Buzz to refocus the team. So those are the positives. The negatives I saw was DJO choking on a critical free throw, which he has repeatedly done in his career. Blue did force a lot of shots and reminded me of last years Blue. Blue has to remember he is an open court player and should not be trying to drive against a zone. Jamil Wilson fouls too much to be an effective player. At the start of the second half, it seemed like our passing went down hill resulting in several turnovers. I think the team ran out of gas. Before the season started I thought we be good this year and better next year. So far DJO and Crowder have been so good this year, I do not see how we can be better next year without them.

[MerrittsMustache]

Crap.  I guess that means that the Bears are headed to the Superbowl now!  No way Rodgers can compete.

Actually, Hanie is the starter now so if he has a clunker in Oakland, rookie 5th-rounder Nathan Enderle will become incredibly popular.

[tower912]

The biggest disappointment I had, and maybe this will be addressed as they install a zone offense, was when TFON had position on the low block, with his defender behind him, and the wing would look at him for a nano-second and then throw the ball back to the top of the key.   I'm not one of those guys with a man-crush on DG, but when your low block scorer has position, and the guy defending him wants to avoid fouling out, give him the ball.     Also, get the ball to the foul line against the 1-2-2.   Jae, DJO, it doesn't matter.    But we won, and learned how to win a tight game without a real zone offense.   

[Silkk the Shaka]

The biggest disappointment I had, and maybe this will be addressed as they install a zone offense, was when TFON had position on the low block, with his defender behind him, and the wing would look at him for a nano-second and then throw the ball back to the top of the key.   I'm not one of those guys with a man-crush on DG, but when your low block scorer has position, and the guy defending him wants to avoid fouling out, give him the ball.     Also, get the ball to the foul line against the 1-2-2.   Jae, DJO, it doesn't matter.    But we won, and learned how to win a tight game without a real zone offense.   

This was the biggest problem I had with Crean's zone offense - no one EVER flashed to the middle, which is the easiest way to beat a zone.  Finally when Buzz took over Matthews started flashing to the FT line and we were no longer perplexed by zone defenses.  Hayward took over that mantle the following year, with Butler doing the same last year.  It's early in the season, so I doubt we've even addressed the zone offense but this has worked well in the past under Buzz so I see no reason to worry it won't continue this season.  I bet Crowder will take over that duty this year, and I bet we'll see that wrinkle added by the next time we see a zone.

[dw3dw3dw3]

I don't think I said anything to rile people up... "Buzz should be fired" or "I hope Vander transfers" would be a hyperbole used to rile people up.  I stated Vander can't shoot, which I'm pretty sure most people would agree with even though it's an opinion. Vander has had one bad game, 3 decent games, and one great game all against lower conference opponents. If Vander continues to shoot at his current clip of 37% from 3, I would be amazed and think there would be other powers at work. My "defense" for this is that he shot 16% from 3 last year and while there is a subtle change in his shot, it in no way is something that a team should be counting on after rotating the ball to the opposite side. Sultan are you saying that you like Vander shooting 3's as part of the offense? If you do that's fine, but I just think: A. his percentage will come way down with increased competition and a larger sample size B. There's a higher percentage shot to be had by someone else.   

I want Vander to succeed on the court and in life, it's better for MU to have a success story transforming someone rather than the alternative.  That being said, Buzz has a lot of options this year and it will be interesting to see how they play out. If Vander can't be effective going to the hoop against more competitive teams, will Buzz choose to go with the smaller Mayo or Jones or JA? Each player has their pluses and minuses, Mayo struggled a bit yesterday as well and got lost on defense a few times. I think Vander as the 3/4 option with Jae, DJO, CO/DG on the floor will be where he is most effective, attacking the rim with the overplay on the other guys. When Jae or DJO aren't in, in my opinion, TM becomes a better better 1st or 2nd offensive wing option in those situations. However with DJO and Jae in, I think we get too small with TM as the 3rd guard.
 

[GGGG]

Sultan are you saying that you like Vander shooting 3's as part of the offense? If you do that's fine, but I just think: A. his percentage will come way down with increased competition and a larger sample size B. There's a higher percentage shot to be had by someone else. 

You brought up 3/8, and made a lame Tebow reference, without looking up the fact that 3/8 is actually a fairly decent percentage given last year as a comparison.

But I agree that it will likely drop and I would agree that Vander shooting a bunch of threes shouldn't be a major part of the offense.  However I don't mind if he shoots a couple a game within the flow.

[dw3dw3dw3]

I guess I was trying to say if he kept up shooting 37% it would be a miracle. Sorry if you are already tired of Tebowmania, but I happen to think it's good TV, a mix between reality TV and sports. I do understand 37% is a good percentage.

The one thing I love about Buzz coached teams is we very rarely have guys heat checking themselves without actually being hot. I hate watching Florida, Memphis and other teams who don't seem to know the value of a high percentage possession. Recruits think we are a run and gun team they want to play for, but in actuality we seem closer to Wisconsin than Kentucky if we don't have it on the break.

[Canadian Dimes]

tonight I felt was Vander Blue.  I knew was not a 26 point player a few nights ago but the other games he let the game come to him.  Offensively tonight, he looked much like he did last
year taking poor shots and missing easy ones as well.  The small forward has to be able to score.  Also, Todd Mayo looked like a freshman today.  To the people who have seen Juan
Anderson in the summer, does he help this team in the future?  I hope Buzz does not keep in the dog house to long.  Time to play him.

Actually the biggest disappointment is your post.  yes Vander struggled tonite.  My guess is becuase you call yourself "hoopster" you were the star every night?

"Time to let him play"   hmmm another disappointment by the "hoopster"   Lets see a kid who spends half of his 1st 15 practices ever in collge in a boot and then has to sit out 3 games and has 2 minutes of collge playing experience should be in a 1 possesion championship game? 

You post is by far my biggest disappointment. 

Are u drunk?  I hope so.

[Canadian Dimes]

Sometimes I wonder if I am watching the same game as some of you.  A couple of semi contested 3's?  REally.  Wow, I wonder if some of the critics on this board have ever played the game.

This bashing is becoming a joke.  I expected more out of MU basketball fans than I have witnessed.  Pretty pathetic bunch we have!~

+1 Very well said ...the basketball IQ of this board is 0

[Dawson Rental]

When we went to the tournament last year, I'm pretty sure no one was talking about how craptily we played against UWM.

Season checklist
(x) Non-conference near-miss against inferior opponent (sky falls on Scoop)
( ) Non-conference stinker to inferior opponent (more sky-falling)
( ) Non-conference loss on big stage convinces board MU not ready for Big East
( ) Unmentionable conference loss
( ) Road Game we weren't supposed to win
( ) Late surge
( ) Top-half Big East Finish

A top-half Big East finish would have been nice last year.  We finished in a three way tie for ninth, and were seeded eleventh in the Big East tourney.

[Big Papi]

I am not very disappointed in how the game played out yesterday so for me there is no real "Biggest Disappointment".  

Reasons why:  
1. Seems to be a quite a few upsets this year and last I looked we haven't lost yet
2. The team has concentrated on the defense end in practice and probably have not practiced much if at all on a zone offense.  That will improve as the year goes on
3.  Out of the 10 that played minutes yesterday, 3 of them have now played in only 4 games at MU and Jamail Jones played very limited minutes last year.  There will be growing pains this year as there is every year.
4.  I have read a lot of comments on multiple boards that the team overlooked Norfolk State.  I think a lot of fans overlooked Norfolk State.  They are not a horrible team.  They have talent and would not have reached the finals if they were a bad team.  Playing them twice within a week makes for interesting games.
5. This game will make the team better.  A little adversity is a good thing and to still win the game is a very good thing.

Overall, we are still a very good team that will beat A LOT of teams this year.

[Dawson Rental]

Actually, Hanie is the starter now so if he has a clunker in Oakland, rookie 5th-rounder Nathan Enderle will become incredibly popular.

Cutler's injury was really a bad break for Enderle, no more partying on Saturday night and showing up Sunday assured that he'll be inactive.

[ringout]

It's time to give up on the myth that Vander had a terrible freshman year.  

If you play as much as he did as a freshman, you earned your PT.  Buzz will not put a guy on the floor who doesn't earn it.  What is the reason most freshman don't play a lot?  DEFENSE.  Freshman earn PT by playing defense, mostly.

Were his offensive warts showing?  Sure they were.    

Vander will be a great Warrior.  Wait and see.

[Henry Sugar]

It's time to give up on the myth that Vander had a terrible freshman year.  

You're kidding, right?

[Canadian Dimes]

First of all the difference between a good season and a bad season is who wins the close games. Two years ago we won three overtime games in a row on the road, which made it be a good season. Lose two out of those three and it was a bad season. Losing one of them probably would have cost us an NCCA bid. So far we are 1-0 in close games and that is a big positive. Second of all, if you believe Buzz, almost all of MU's practices are spent on defense, which means we have not practiced a zone offense. Remember we beat Syracuse both games last year and therefore I am not worried about us being able to handle a zone. Also, I do believe a close game like this, especially after we previously blew them out, allows Buzz to refocus the team. So those are the positives. The negatives I saw was DJO choking on a critical free throw, which he has repeatedly done in his career. Blue did force a lot of shots and reminded me of last years Blue. Blue has to remember he is an open court player and should not be trying to drive against a zone. Jamil Wilson fouls too much to be an effective player. At the start of the second half, it seemed like our passing went down hill resulting in several turnovers. I think the team ran out of gas. Before the season started I thought we be good this year and better next year. So far DJO and Crowder have been so good this year, I do not see how we can be better next year without them.

I said it earlier and i really think the collective basketball IQ of this board is about 0.0.  Just becuase people watch basketball does not mean they know anything about the game.

the statement " Blue did force a lot of shots and reminded me of last years Blue. Blue has to remember he is an open court player and should not be trying to drive against a zone."  

I mean really??  Seriously??  If the guards are not trying to attack gaps with the drive in a zone they should not be on the court.  vander is a pretty good driver of the ball ... he on a number of occasions was able to attack gaps and get to the rim.  The guy missed some F'ing layups last night and every idiot fan that has zero basketball IQ wants to rip him.  

So my question would be should we then have aplayer who lacks the ability to attack gaps out there or what?   I mean these comments are stupid.   I thought Vnader played quite well.  great passing, great defense, the guy missed some contested layups attacking a zone.  Anyone that has ever coached or played the game knows that you keep attacking and the percentage of those layups will even out over time.  Vander played well last night anyone coming on here saying differently only exposes themselves as a stupid no IQ basketball observer.

[Dawson Rental]

a)First of all the difference between a good season and a bad season is who wins the close games. Two years ago we won three overtime games in a row on the road, which made it be a good season. Lose two out of those three and it was a bad season. Losing one of them probably would have cost us an NCCA bid. So far we are 1-0 in close games and that is a big positive.
b)Second of all, if you believe Buzz, almost all of MU's practices are spent on defense, which means we have not practiced a zone offense. Remember we beat Syracuse both games last year and therefore I am not worried about us being able to handle a zone.
c)Also, I do believe a close game like this, especially after we previously blew them out, allows Buzz to refocus the team. So those are the positives.
d)The negatives I saw was DJO choking on a critical free throw, which he has repeatedly done in his career.
e)Blue did force a lot of shots and reminded me of last years Blue. Blue has to remember he is an open court player and should not be trying to drive against a zone.
f)Jamil Wilson fouls too much to be an effective player.
g)At the start of the second half, it seemed like our passing went down hill resulting in several turnovers. I think the team ran out of gas.
h)Before the season started I thought we be good this year and better next year. So far DJO and Crowder have been so good this year, I do not see how we can be better next year without them.

a) +1
b) Exact-a-mundo
c) very true
d) Unfortunately, I thought that very thing, too.  In fact, according to Buzz's postgame interview, DJO realized it too, and was bummed out about it which hopefully will remedy the situation.
e) Honestly, I don't consider myself qualified to agree/disagree, but you're on a roll, so I buy it.
f) Jae's problem from last year from which he has shown solid improvement.  Hopefully, Jamil learns to deal with it too.
g) Possibly true, but I find it hard to believe since Norfolk State who was the opponent has played the same amount of games for the last eight days, has less depth, and I believe that MU is in solid shape, conditioning wise.  I'm putting it down to confused by the zone, having not prepared for one yet in this year's practices.
h) Good point.  But, we might get surprised by a jump in performance from someone next year to equal Jae's big move forward this year.

[Dawson Rental]

Actually the biggest disappointment is your post.  yes Vander struggled tonite.  My guess is becuase you call yourself "hoopster" you were the star every night?

"Time to let him play"   hmmm another disappointment by the "hoopster"   Lets see a kid who spends half of his 1st 15 practices ever in collge in a boot and then has to sit out 3 games and has 2 minutes of collge playing experience should be in a 1 possesion championship game? 

You post is by far my biggest disappointment. 

Are u drunk?  I hope so.

COMPLETELY, TOTALLY UNNECESSARY

[MUMac]

g) Possibly true, but I find it hard to believe since Norfolk State who was the opponent has played the same amount of games for the last eight days, has less depth, and I believe that MU is in solid shape, conditioning wise.  I'm putting it down to confused by the zone, having not prepared for one yet in this year's practices.

I did not think MU was tired or looked tired.  I do think two factors hurt MU.  The first was going up 16 early against a team MU blew out a week early.  They seemed to get complacent a bit.  Couple that with O'Quinn going out, which leads to number two. 

With O'Quinn out, NFSU went zone to protect themselves until he returned.  Had he not been in foul trouble, I wonder if NFSU would have gone zone at all.  He is known as a shot blocker.  Without him in there, they needed to clog up the middle from our guards penetration.

With O'Quinn out, NFSU now playing zone and MU up 16, MU got out of their offense.  I don't think they were taking bad shots, but missing them.  That caused some forcing of the action.  Blue, Cadougan, DJO and Mayo all got caught up in forcging the ball to the hoop.

[mu03eng]

g) Possibly true, but I find it hard to believe since Norfolk State who was the opponent has played the same amount of games for the last eight days, has less depth, and I believe that MU is in solid shape, conditioning wise.  I'm putting it down to confused by the zone, having not prepared for one yet in this year's practices.

I agree with you Murs, I don't think they were tired, I didn't see any lack of hustle when required like at the end of the game with Vander's steal and Jae and Junior diving to the floor for loose balls.

I think the zone played with their heads, instead of playing instinctively they had to think about everything.  Not a reflection on their intelligence but when you are playing at that high a level and have to think about things too much you slow down at everything almost as if you don't have enough brain power to do it all.  As a result you saw some less than crisp passing and dribbling resulting in uncharacteristic TOs.  You could almost see the gears grinding with the players.  Get them more practice time and exposure to a zone and they won't look like that again.