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Author Topic: Molestation Allegations at Syracuse  (Read 4884 times)
MUBurrow
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« on: November 17, 2011, 07:38:03 PM »

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s

Makes you wonder how many more of these types of stories will come out in the coming weeks/months.  

edit: mods feel free to move this to the superbar if its not an appropriate topic for the al.
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JD
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 07:51:09 PM »

Serious question, how do boys get raped?  I just don't get how when your 15 or older you can get raped?  Especially in this article the victim states this happened until he was 27. WTF?
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I think everyone should go to college and get a degree and then spend six months as a bartender and six months as a cabdriver. Then they would really be educated.

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avid1010
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 08:03:46 PM »

Serious question, how do boys get raped?  I just don't get how when your 15 or older you can get raped?  Especially in this article the victim states this happened until he was 27. WTF?

My thought would be someone who was repeatedly raped prior to being 15 might not have the mental health needed to physically resist.  I can't begin to imagine what that must do to kids. 

As far as 15+, it really doesn't matter the circumstances if the person is under 18 does it?
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JD
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 08:14:35 PM »

As far as 15+, it really doesn't matter the circumstances if the person is under 18 does it?


I think you misunderstood, I'm talking about a physical stand point.  I just don't understand somebody at age 15 or older who can't fight back.. hell even 12.  I just have a hard time comprehending.
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I think everyone should go to college and get a degree and then spend six months as a bartender and six months as a cabdriver. Then they would really be educated.

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Ruby
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 08:20:44 PM »

It doesn't happen out of the blue, like an attack on a dark corner.  Listen to the audio.  It is a systematic process of gaining trust, gradually breaking down barriers, creating feelings of attachment, gratitude, indebtedness.  It is a slow, seductive process. The victim often doesn't realize what is going on until it is too late. Then comes the shame which perpetuates the cycle. No one to turn to. No one steps up to question the relationship.  These guys are masters at manipulation and are often seen as "role models" of caring about kids.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:26:43 PM by Ruby » Logged
JD
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 08:21:47 PM »

Thank you for the explanation.  I wish i could say i understand but i don't which is probably a good thing.
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I think everyone should go to college and get a degree and then spend six months as a bartender and six months as a cabdriver. Then they would really be educated.

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LightBlueJerseys
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 08:33:50 PM »

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s

"Bernie Fine got the boy ejaculate on many occasions... hundreds if not thousands of times"

Made the boy ejaculate?... on behalf of all men, I struggle to find forcing someone to ejaculation completely one-sided...

Regardless, the allegations, if true, are still terrible.
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Stone Cold
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 08:43:11 PM »

Must've liked it if he stuck around till 27.    That or Fine puts spells on people.
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Ruby
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 08:47:59 PM »

Wow! Okay, listen.  Part of the "seductions" and the building of shame is that there is some pleasure for the victim.  He doesn't want it. He didn't ask for or even consider the relationship sexual.  But suddenly it is.  And there was physical pleasure.  So now he thinks or is intimidated into thinking maybe he did want it.  Everything is turned upside down.  His is scared, ashamed, alone, trapped.  Don't blame the victim.  He did not ask for or go looking for a guy he idolized to molest him.  
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MUMac
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 08:58:22 PM »

Wow! Okay, listen.  Part of the "seductions" and the building of shame is that there is some pleasure for the victim.  He doesn't want it. He didn't ask for or even consider the relationship sexual.  But suddenly it is.  And there was physical pleasure.  So now he thinks or is intimidated into thinking maybe he did want it.  Everything is turned upside down.  His is scared, ashamed, alone, trapped.  Don't blame the victim.  He did not ask for or go looking for a guy he idolized to molest him.  

Over the past few weeks, I have learned more about this subject than I ever wanted to learn.  How rampant is this in sports?  Very disturbing. 
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PuertoRicanNightmare
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 09:01:07 PM »

Up until 1983, Syracuse called these people "team managers." I understand Fine insisted they be called "ball boys," even into their mid-20s.
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Heisenberg
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 09:19:40 PM »

Boeheim is not going to survive this.  Soon someone will piece together something to suggest Boeheim knew and did not do enough.  At that point the "Paterno standard" will kick in and he'll be gone.

Boeheim will be gone by Christmas.
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avid1010
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 09:23:35 PM »

Must've liked it if he stuck around till 27.    That or Fine puts spells on people.
Possibly the worst thing I've seen posted on this board.  Class act.  If you listen to the video the victim refers to it as a spell.  Not saying that the guy isn't making it all up, but to suggest it's as simple as liking it or walking away is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 09:26:13 PM by avid1010 » Logged
LittleDillard
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 09:35:22 PM »

Boeheim is not going to survive this.  Soon someone will piece together something to suggest Boeheim knew and did not do enough.  At that point the "Paterno standard" will kick in and he'll be gone.

Boeheim will be gone by Christmas.

The victim states that Boeheim knew that he was staying in fine's room on road trips, and just "scowled" when he would be confronted with it, as when he would go to Fine's room and see Davis sitting on the bed there in his shorts.
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Heisenberg
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 09:39:26 PM »

The victim states that Boeheim knew that he was staying in fine's room on road trips, and just "scowled" when he would be confronted with it, as when he would go to Fine's room and see Davis sitting on the bed there in his shorts.

Boeheim might night make Thanksgiving!
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LittleDillard
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 09:42:54 PM »

Wow! Okay, listen.  Part of the "seductions" and the building of shame is that there is some pleasure for the victim.  He doesn't want it. He didn't ask for or even consider the relationship sexual.  But suddenly it is.  And there was physical pleasure.  So now he thinks or is intimidated into thinking maybe he did want it.  Everything is turned upside down.  His is scared, ashamed, alone, trapped.  Don't blame the victim.  He did not ask for or go looking for a guy he idolized to molest him.  


The attitudes that the victim could have stopped this physically or that he shouldn't have let it continue as long as he did are reasons why abuse like this goes unpunished so often.  It's just a lack of awareness by people who haven't been exposed to this extreme kind of abuse of trust.

The real kicker is often abusers like this were oftentimes themselves abused and as a consequence of that abuse perpetrate the same abuse, keeping a sad sick cycle reoccurring.  That's why not sweeping these kinds of allegations (which at this point is all that they are) under the rug is so important.  
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 09:47:23 PM by LittleMurs » Logged

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tower912
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 09:47:09 PM »

(A) Horrible, if true.   (B)  The new 11th commandment should be, "Thou shalt not jump to conclusions based on what reads on the internet."    (C)  Still uncomfortable after the allegations lobbed at MU to cast stones.   
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Skatastrophy
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2011, 10:43:30 PM »

The attitudes that the victim could have stopped this physically or that he shouldn't have let it continue as long as he did are reasons why abuse like this goes unpunished so often.  It's just a lack of awareness by people who haven't been exposed to this extreme kind of abuse of trust.

Exactly.

I'm glad that some of you guys are asking honest questions about "how" and "why" because they're important questions, but when it comes down to it a 15 year old boy (or any minor) being assaulted by any adult is absolutely *not* okay.

I'm not saying that the accused is guilty, especially because this particular case was investigated a while ago and not prosecuted because of inconsistencies... but if a 15 year old kid had a sexual relationship with an adult it's against the laws of the land.  Unless you're an ancient Greek or Roman, it's illegal. 
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LittleDillard
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 11:05:49 PM »

Unfortunately it was only investigated by ESPN, the Syracuse City Police refused to look into it in 2003.
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PuertoRicanNightmare
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 11:07:11 PM »

There seems to be a lot of former altar boys on the board tonight!
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LittleDillard
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2011, 11:27:15 PM »

(A) Horrible, if true.   (B)  The new 11th commandment should be, "Thou shalt not jump to conclusions based on what reads on the internet."    (C)  Still uncomfortable after the allegations lobbed at MU to cast stones.   

Not to mention our unique potential exposure.  I know of a past president of a Jesuit University and a Jesuit prep school who have been defrocked in the last few years over accusations like these.  I'm not really worried because as the two incidents I have knowledge about indicate, in the last eight years or so the Jesuits have adopted a new attitude on this subject, gone through old complaints and done some serious investigating.
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avid1010
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2011, 11:43:04 PM »

There seems to be a lot of former altar boys on the board tonight!

Hopefully not, but if there was one, I can only imagine how much he'd appreciate the comments. 
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The Sultan of Sunshine
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« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2011, 07:46:03 AM »

I think Boeheim is going to be OK.

First, the alleged vicitim contacted the police, was informed the statute of limitations expired.

Second, Syracuse was informed of the police investigation and launched there own investigation anyway.

Unless some solid evidence comes out that he knew about this and covered it up...or he knew of multiple allegations, I don't think Boeheim is touched by this.
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Skatastrophy
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2011, 09:11:40 AM »

Hopefully not, but if there was one, I can only imagine how much he'd appreciate the comments. 

I was one, but my grandpa was the minister and I now know that I was a particularly sexy kid.
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Jay Bee
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2011, 09:23:28 AM »

I don't think Boeheim is touched by this.

Uhhh.

Why did Syracuse already suspend the perv?  If they knew of the allegations, investigated it and did nothing... why do something now?  Did they receive new information, or is it simply because now it's in the media? 

"he pulled on him hundreds or a thousand times and made him ejaculate".. what?!  Some of the details of allegations the news talks about is sick...
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