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Author Topic: Futbol Talk  (Read 788021 times)

MUfan12

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1550 on: July 06, 2015, 09:34:56 AM »
This team's fortunes changed when Morgan Brian was inserted into the starting lineup against China. It freed up Lloyd to do her thing in a more advanced role.

Very, very proud of this team.

brewcity77

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1551 on: July 06, 2015, 09:58:33 AM »
Rare to see a nation play so free and loose in the late rounds. Germany did it to an amazing level last year against Brasil and the US women were right on the heels of that performance with their first 16 minutes last night.

I thought it was interesting that everyone assumed the US would use their physicality to an advantage on set pieces and bomb it in the air but they reversed the psychology on that and Japan was caught well off guard by the worm burning corner and free kick that led to the first two goals. Once those went in, the Japanese keeper was rattled to the point of being useless the rest of the match.

Holiday's goal was just as technically brilliant as Lloyd's third. And Brian was outstanding last night and against Germany but that will be overshadowed by Lloyd's emergence. Brian is the future.

The US definitely seemed to employ that strategy early in the WC to little effect. Wambach is an all-time great, but the long-ball, power it through approach just wasn't working. It's a credit to Ellis that she so completely shifted strategy midstream and it really paid off on those first two goals.

Dellacamera said it very well, Japan just wasn't ready for the US. They weren't ready for the speed or the style, which is somewhat surprising as it was similar to how they tried to play against China. Honestly, last night's effort reminded me a ton of the China game, with the difference being that last night they had better finishing, especially from Lloyd.

After the first two matches, Carli just didn't seem to have it. Against Sweden especially. The way she raised her game in the knockouts was stunning.

A buddy of mine said last night that he feels Lloyd is the best pure ball-striker in the world, men or women. She may not have the power of the men, but when it comes to getting just the right touch, she's fantastic. I could watch that 50-yard strike over and over and still not fail to be amazed. Every aspect of it was flawless. The first touch to settle, nutmegging her defender while making an excellent turn, then having the temerity to keep her eyes up and catch the keeper off her line, and to blast that from such range with such stunning accuracy. It was reminiscent of David Beckham's famous goal against Wimbledon, only Lloyd's was much better because she was being challenged and didn't have near the time to settle that Beckham did.

That may have been the best long range strike I've ever seen that didn't happen in a video game.
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1552 on: July 06, 2015, 12:21:03 PM »
Rare to see a nation play so free and loose in the late rounds. Germany did it to an amazing level last year against Brasil and the US women were right on the heels of that performance with their first 16 minutes last night.

I thought it was interesting that everyone assumed the US would use their physicality to an advantage on set pieces and bomb it in the air but they reversed the psychology on that and Japan was caught well off guard by the worm burning corner and free kick that led to the first two goals. Once those went in, the Japanese keeper was rattled to the point of being useless the rest of the match.

Holiday's goal was just as technically brilliant as Lloyd's third. And Brian was outstanding last night and against Germany but that will be overshadowed by Lloyd's emergence. Brian is the future.

Regarding those first 16 minutes, not only were the US women controlling everything, they finished nearly every opportunity they had (save for Lloyd's header that just missed wide).  Often times teams may have several opportunities in the first few minutes to just miss.

The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

In a slightly unrelated note, the Japanese team were very refreshing to watch.  Save for one player (Maya??? #10???) they didn't complain to the ref about calls made/not made, they were routinely great sports to the US women, helping them up, etc.  They were a very classy team and great examples for young ones watching the game.

JWags85

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1553 on: July 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM »
The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

I think that first goal was my favorite, other than the obviously incredible mid field strike, because Lloyd's run was absolutely incredible and came from FAR.  Just dazzling execution.

warriorchick

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1554 on: July 06, 2015, 01:21:52 PM »
I have to say that the championship trophy is a little underwhelming, especially on the heels of all the Stanley-Cup-parading they have done around here recently.
Have some patience, FFS.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1555 on: July 06, 2015, 01:53:35 PM »
I have to say that the championship trophy is a little underwhelming, especially on the heels of all the Stanley-Cup-parading they have done around here recently.

My 12-year old daughter's reaction:  "That's all they win?"  Sometimes it's hard to explain to a child of the "participation trophy generation" that it's the honor of winning and not the size of the trophy that matters.
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tower912

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1556 on: July 06, 2015, 01:55:42 PM »
It is good that your daughter is learning early that size isn't everything.       

Unbelievable first 20 minutes.   Every bounce went USA's way.    I tip my hat to Japan for pulling it together and competing for the final 70 minutes.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

warriorchick

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1557 on: July 06, 2015, 01:55:55 PM »
My 12-year old daughter's reaction:  "That's all they win?"  Sometimes it's hard to explain to a child of the "participation trophy generation" that it's the honor of winning and not the size of the trophy that matters.

Of course it's hard to explain, because it's WRONG!
Have some patience, FFS.

brewcity77

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1558 on: July 06, 2015, 02:07:54 PM »
It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

I think that first goal was my favorite, other than the obviously incredible mid field strike, because Lloyd's run was absolutely incredible and came from FAR.  Just dazzling execution.

That first goal was a thing of beauty. Lloyd just streaked in from nowhere and got a perfect touch. All in all a great performance from her.
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tower912

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1559 on: July 06, 2015, 02:08:49 PM »
Perfectly timed.    Started her run from so far away that she really couldn't be marked. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WarriorInNYC

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1560 on: July 06, 2015, 02:42:46 PM »
It looked like the defender who initially headed the ball had no idea where it went.  One other defender was ball watching and Holiday's marker was just torched cause Holiday made an amazing read on the ball and was full sprint past her and she just couldn't keep up.

After reading this, I remembered that was in the sunny end, so I wonder if several of the Japanese defenders had trouble finding the ball with the weird sun and shadows that was going on in that end.

They noted that the US won the toss and elected to defend the shady side.  5/7 total goals from the game were scored on the sunny end.

Coleman

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1561 on: July 06, 2015, 02:52:35 PM »
After reading this, I remembered that was in the sunny end, so I wonder if several of the Japanese defenders had trouble finding the ball with the weird sun and shadows that was going on in that end.

They noted that the US won the toss and elected to defend the shady side.  5/7 total goals from the game were scored on the sunny end.

Wouldn't it actually have been 6 of 7 goals (all except USA's 2nd half goal)?

brewcity77

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1562 on: July 06, 2015, 03:10:29 PM »
Wouldn't it actually have been 6 of 7 goals (all except USA's 2nd half goal)?

Japan also had a first half goal, so 5/7. Was 4-1 at halftime.

But I remember when they initially announced the USA would start defending in the shade, I was glad. Figure the sun will go down as the game goes on and the sun will be less of a factor in the second half. Not that it decided the game (Carli Lloyd did) but it certainly didn't hurt, especially on the volley and the long ball goal.
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Golden Avalanche

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1563 on: July 06, 2015, 04:34:38 PM »
The third goal, was an amazing strike by Holiday, but IMO was also lazy defense by the Japanese.  The cross was headed sky high and not one defender seemed to attempt to track back to it to contest.

The defender who messed up that headed clearance was the same defender assigned to mark Lloyd on a set piece. She was absolutely awful and rightly subbed off immediately.

She deserved a '0' but the keeper is right next to her on that one. She lost her mind and lallygagged out to the 18 yard line when the ball was at midfield only to have Lloyd dispossess, spot the keeper staring at the sun, and chip her from 50 yards. Keeper also at fault for Heath's goal. Made such a poor attempt at incoming corner it allowed Brian plenty of time to put it on a plate to Heath.

Japan never had a chance but they also didn't need to leave their smart defending on the bus.

ATWizJr

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1564 on: July 07, 2015, 09:39:29 AM »
Wonderful tournament for our women but wish no games were played on artificial turf and that the final would have been played at a time/venue where the sun angle was as important as the play of the teams.  Boo, Canada and FIFA for those choices.

ATWizJr

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1565 on: July 07, 2015, 11:04:41 AM »
Also, thought we heard a little too much from DiCicco about "his" 99er's during the final.  Surprised that we haven't heard from him in any post game commentary after the Japan win.

brewcity77

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1566 on: July 07, 2015, 11:42:04 PM »
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Quite a few American players were poor. Timmy Chandler was ran all over the pitch by Najar and had a very forgettable game. Ventura Alvarado was uninspiring, losing his mark on the Honduran goal and making a few lackluster clearances. Kyle Beckerman looked old and out of sync. And Gyasi Zardes is definitely miscast as a winger. He is good with the close touch, but has neither the pace nor the crossing to be effective out wide.

I was stunned by how poor the USA looked. Spent much of the first half trying to play long ball against a team packing 9 behind the ball. When they did attack they couldn't string together meaningful possession. And numerous times Yedlin would make a wide run, opening space on the right wing, only for the passer too play the ball into the middle of the pitch (and the defense).

In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.
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WarriorInNYC

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1567 on: July 08, 2015, 07:48:58 AM »
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Quite a few American players were poor. Timmy Chandler was ran all over the pitch by Najar and had a very forgettable game. Ventura Alvarado was uninspiring, losing his mark on the Honduran goal and making a few lackluster clearances. Kyle Beckerman looked old and out of sync. And Gyasi Zardes is definitely miscast as a winger. He is good with the close touch, but has neither the pace nor the crossing to be effective out wide.

I was stunned by how poor the USA looked. Spent much of the first half trying to play long ball against a team packing 9 behind the ball. When they did attack they couldn't string together meaningful possession. And numerous times Yedlin would make a wide run, opening space on the right wing, only for the passer too play the ball into the middle of the pitch (and the defense).

In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.

Agreed, they did not look good.  But I'll take the 3 points.

I like Gyasi a lot, but I think he's much better (for the national team) coming off of the bench, would prefer Mix there to start the game instead.  Also think its time to more permanently pair Brooks with Omar Gonzalez.

MUfan12

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1568 on: July 08, 2015, 07:52:05 AM »
In my mind, a terrible performance. If they want to lift the Cup, they need to be much better than this.

True, but they always start the Gold Cup like crap.

I did have a thought while watching last night... in the past, the US was built more for the rough, ugly Central American game than they are now. It seems like this group is more comfortable playing European opposition.

Henry Sugar

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1569 on: July 08, 2015, 08:51:41 AM »
USA opened their Gold Cup defense with a lackluster and wholly undeserved win against Honduras tonight. Dempsey scored twice (both resulting from set pieces against the run of play).

Honduras controlled most of the game. They won possession with 51%, deceptively low because the USA spent much of the second sitting on the ball bleeding clock. Honduras outshot us 16-6, with Andy Najar coming close on a few occasions. Also dominated corners 9-5.

Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)
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Golden Avalanche

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1570 on: July 08, 2015, 08:58:09 AM »
Possession is uncorrelated with results. It is mostly an indicator of style.

Despite losing on overall shots, the US put 83% of their shots on target, as opposed to 33% for Honduras. And they finished 40% of their shots, compared to 33% for Honduras. 

(I've been playing around with soccer analytics lately)

I've never understood why people rely so much on the possession number and shot number as an indicator of who should win. As you write, it's uncorrelated with results and you'd think people would have picked up on this watching Mourinho win and Pep lose.

For fear of being branded anti-American as I was last week with the US Women's team I'll keep my comments regarding last night short: the US looked complacent from the start.


GGGG

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1571 on: July 08, 2015, 09:01:09 AM »
Let's be honest here.  There are only two teams that the US really needs to look out for and will likely face neither until the semifinal. I wouldn't say Honduras deserved to win, but the US should have looked better than they did.  But, they are going to win this group - a win against Haiti practically wraps it up.  They have two games to smooth things out, and will likely face a crappy team like El Salvador or Trinidad in the quarters before facing Costa Rica in the semis.  I'm sure they will look a lot better by then.

Coleman

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1572 on: July 08, 2015, 09:15:36 AM »
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?

GGGG

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1573 on: July 08, 2015, 09:19:03 AM »
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?


Taking the year off from the international team.

JoeSmith1721

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #1574 on: July 08, 2015, 09:19:22 AM »
Disclaimer...I don't pay that much attention to soccer...but why wasn't Tim Howard in net last night?

He is taking a year off from the National Team.

 

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