Futbol Talk

[GGGG]

Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?

I don't know.  I only saw the last 20 minutes. 

I think Germany is going to win this.  An extra days rest and a much easier semifinal.  (I wish they would play both semis on the same day.)

[Golden Avalanche]

Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?

The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.

That said, it was a match for tactic-heads and technical twerps. Both did a great job neutralizing the other's most dangerous threat. Both suffered from periods of abject sloppiness. Both were poor in the final third. Difference was Argentina's GK kept his head whereas the Dutch GK became a massive douchebag and tried to win through silly antics.

[jesmu84]

The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.

That said, it was a match for tactic-heads and technical twerps. Both did a great job neutralizing the other's most dangerous threat. Both suffered from periods of abject sloppiness. Both were poor in the final third. Difference was Argentina's GK kept his head whereas the Dutch GK became a massive douchebag and tried to win through silly antics.

Explain?

[Golden Avalanche]

I don't know.  I only saw the last 20 minutes. 

I think Germany is going to win this.  An extra days rest and a much easier semifinal.  (I wish they would play both semis on the same day.)

It has been played on the same day twice in the modern game (last 30 years or so) but unsure as to why only those two times had them featured on the same day.

In those competitions where the Semi-Finals are played on two separate occasions the team who wins the second Semi generally goes on to win the Cup. Go figure.

[Golden Avalanche]

Explain?

Cillessen started with walking the ball up to Messi for a hand over and embraced his left shoulder. Cillessen then employed the same tactic Krul used against Costa Rica which was the slow stroll on the six yard line and general delay for Garay. Finally, Cillessen worked a different delay on Aguero and Maxi by repeatedly complaining the ball wasn't properly on the spot even though the Turkish referee was standing next to the ball and its proper placement.

All silly gamesmanship antics to where the referee felt a need to have a discussion with the GK about it. In the end, he probably harmed himself the most.

[GGGG]

I know I don't know much, but I always thought Krul was a pretty good GK in the EPL.  Cillessen has barely played in a lower quality league.

[CTWarrior]

Missed the first half and, after golf, the beer was flowing, but it seemed to me that the Dutch were the better side and had more of the possession and created many more chances than Argentina.  If so, the better side is playing for third place and the luckier side is through to the final.  Agree?

The Dutch certainly had the ball more, particularly in the 2nd half, but a lot of that was because they were content to just hold onto it at midfield for long periods of time before attacking.  Argentina was more aggressive whenever they got the ball, but usually their attacks were snuffed out quickly.  Argentina did have the better scoring chances, but not many of them.

My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.

May be tactically smart, but not too exciting to watch.  Again, I am a novice to the sport, but that was my take.  I've watched more soccer in the past three weeks than I had in the 50+ years preceding them.

[MUfan12]

As the Men in Blazers said yesterday, "Sometimes, football is just a bit crap." Just like any sport, there will be ugly games.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.

Which is why sudden death OT after the standard OT period would be great for elimination games.  You have to score to win not by silly penalty kicks.  For each OT period, they can allow another substitution on top of the 3 max.  And if teams drag out OT by being far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring then that's your penalty by tiring your team out with longer play time for the next game.

[GGGG]

My wife was born and raised in Argentina and moved to the States for good when she was 15.  Her family is big into this and I try to enjoy it with her, but my biggest problem with the sport is a game like yesterday's where both teams were far, far more concerned with preventing goals than with scoring them.  You could feel that 0-0 tie coming 20 minutes into the game.

I think this stuff happens more in international matches.

My observation is that the offense clicks a lot more during club matches so defenses can't just sick back and play for the tie. 

[Henry Sugar]

[MU B2002]

The beer clouded your cognition.

The Netherlands didn't have a shot on goal until the 95th minute. Robben was invisible until extra time (and even then he wasn't transcendent). I'm not even sure Van Persie played in the match. Their standout performer was a defender. Sneijder's service was awful.

Agree 100%.  Robben seemed to take one touch too many every time he was close to a dangerous position.  And I don't know what got into Sneijder, but I can't remember one ball on target from him.  One after another too high over the top.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The Dutch did not deserve to win yesterday, though not sure either team really did much.  Not a fun game.

I'm ok with penalty kicks, the OT games for a Golden Goal can take forever.  The guys are already so dead tired.  My two cents.

[GooooMarquette]

Maybe they need a shot clock to make the matches more interesting.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Just saw a story on the Popes World Cup final.  Francis v. Benedict

[River rat]

Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.

[Henry Sugar]

Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.

My head says Germany wins, especially with Di Maria out and Aguero not fit. My heart roots for Argentina.

One thing Germany does not have, however, is arguably the greatest player of all time in his prime (bolded for emphasis).

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

[GooooMarquette]

Germany is the best team in the world by a large margin.  They should win on Sunday handily, its a game so we will see but the quality and talent they have at every position is unmatched.  I felt they were the second best team in 2010 , but we too young at the time.  4 years later they are playing at their prime.  Would have loved to see this team with Reus, i am not sure the casual fan realizes how good he is.

Agree Germany is the best team by quite a bit.  Frankly, I thought they were the most talented team in 2010 too, but as you said, they lacked experience.  The only wild card, as Henry points out, is Messi.  Even though Germany is more talented overall, you just never know when a player of his caliber goes off for two or three goals.

For those who think the extra day of rest benefits Germany...recall that Spain won in 2010, despite playing a day later than the Netherlands in the semis.

[jesmu84]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/belgium-vs-u-s-was-the-best-match-of-the-world-cup-so-far/

[jesmu84]

Last part of 30 for 30's US Soccer video series. Shot during/after Belgium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTRGGeuGY5w

[CTWarrior]

Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?

I will say the winning goal was the result of wonderful offensive play, rather than a blunder by the defense.

[GGGG]

Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?

Well I would say that high level club soccer is better, because offenses are better.  (Probably because they play together nine months out of the year.)  You can't win just by sitting back and defending constantly like you can in World Cup games.

[Golden Avalanche]

Argentina did not score a goal in their last 322 consecutive minutes of game "action" (3.6 regulation games worth of time), covering their quarterfinal, semifinal and championship games.  Despite this, they were thisclose to having a 50/50 chance of winning via penalty kicks the most prestigious soccer tournament in the world.  How is this the world's most popular sport again?

I will say the winning goal was the result of wonderful offensive play, rather than a blunder by the defense.

Because their defense was outstanding.

The Argentines absolutely shut down a Belgian outfit that abused your country with offensive chances. The Argentines absolutely shut down a Netherlands squad that embarrassed the greatest generation of a national team in history. The Argentines went toe to toe with Germany, whom many consider the most offensively potent nation in the world at the moment.

Defense wins titles. Americans love to trot out that cliche when it comes to "their" sports. Why can't that be the case in the world's most popular sport? Also, there is a major difference between what Argentina did and sitting back to absorb pressure while hoping not to lose. Argentina had chances in all three of the matches you cite. In fact, some in the soccer world felt they were the better team yesterday. However, despite the intractable opinion of some, no team deserves to win on performance alone. You deserve to win when you score more than the opponent.
 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Very few in the "Soccer World" felt that Argentina was the better side yesterday.  Messi was obviously not himself in the tournament and the Argentines could hardly match position by position with the Mannschaft .

[CTWarrior]

Because their defense was outstanding.

The Argentines absolutely shut down a Belgian outfit that abused your country with offensive chances. The Argentines absolutely shut down a Netherlands squad that embarrassed the greatest generation of a national team in history. The Argentines went toe to toe with Germany, whom many consider the most offensively potent nation in the world at the moment.

Defense wins titles. Americans love to trot out that cliche when it comes to "their" sports. Why can't that be the case in the world's most popular sport? Also, there is a major difference between what Argentina did and sitting back to absorb pressure while hoping not to lose. Argentina had chances in all three of the matches you cite. In fact, some in the soccer world felt they were the better team yesterday. However, despite the intractable opinion of some, no team deserves to win on performance alone. You deserve to win when you score more than the opponent.
 

I was rooting for Argentina as my wife was born there and cared a great deal about the game.  

Sure, Americans admire defense in "their" sports", but in American Sports, no matter how good your defense is, you have to score while playing the actual game, pretty much always more than once, to win.

Nobody would like baseball if all the games were 1-0 or went 12 innings with no score and then a home run derby decided the winner.  Same with football if all the games were 3-0 or 7-0 or 7-3 and a field goal kicking contest decided the winner after an overtime tie.  Defense is admired in American sports because it takes great defense to stop Mike Trout or Peyton Manning or Kevin Durant.  Not the same in soccer.  

You even made the point yourself.  The US defense was pretty porous against Belgium, but Belgium still didn't score in regulation.