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Author Topic: The Time Has Come...  (Read 20276 times)

CTWarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2007, 06:04:48 PM »

I give us a B+ for non-conference.  B for conference.  C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)


I wish you were grading me back when I was in school.  C for postseason?  D- is more like it.  Other grades are fair enough.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

Pakuni

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2007, 06:06:02 PM »
A couple of things from our Mexico City office while unable to fly home because of the snow.

1.  Kevin O'Neill was poised to have a long successful run at MU.  He consistently was bringing in top notch classes and it was paying off.  There's a reason why Deane's record is as solid as it is.  He inherited a very solid team.  I would say what O'Neill did at MU was even more impressive than what Crean has done because of where he was starting from.  So Crean isn't the only guy who could be successful here.  O'Neill's teams, good as they were, were just abysmal as far as entertainment value.  Horrible, ugly games.

Kevin O'Neill may have taken over a MU program worse off than the one inherited by Tom Crean, but he certainly did not lead it to equal heights. No Final Fours, obviously, one good tourney run, one one-and-done and three seasons of nothing. The cupard was pretty bare when he arrived, but not significantly more so than Crean's. Tony Smith was an excellent player who went on to a long NBA career. Trevor Powell and Ty Baldwin were decent college players. Tom Crean had a very good college player in Brian Wardle, solid guys in Cordell Henry and Nnamaka and that's about all.

As far as O'Neill being poised for a long successful run at MU: hogwash. He wanted out and he bailed at the first decent opportunity.

Likewise, as good of a coach and recruiter as KO was, he was a miserable PR man for the university. He offended alumni at nearly every turn and treated students like crap. I may be mistaken here, but I believe the university's ability to get the McGuire Center done under Kevin O'Neill would have been markedly lower.

I was a KO fan, having been at MU when he took over and seen firsthand the progress he made with the program. But no way did he do more for the program than has Tom Crean.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 06:10:02 PM by Pakuni »

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2007, 06:10:29 PM »

I give us a B+ for non-conference.  B for conference.  C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)


I wish you were grading me back when I was in school.  C for postseason?  D- is more like it.  Other grades are fair enough.

Well, let's see.   We beat St. John's.  We lost to a higher seed Pitt.  We lost an 8-9 matchup in the NCAAs.  All without our best player.  If we had our best player and had those same results, then I would agree without.  But we didn't, so it's hard for me to penalize the team ....that's why I would argue an incomplete might be more accurate.  You can't take 15 points out of the lineup and the Big East Defensive Player of the year 1 game before Post Season starts and think it won't have an effect.

CTWarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2007, 06:20:24 PM »

Well, let's see.   We beat St. John's.  We lost to a higher seed Pitt.  We lost an 8-9 matchup in the NCAAs.  All without our best player.  If we had our best player and had those same results, then I would agree without.  But we didn't, so it's hard for me to penalize the team ....that's why I would argue an incomplete might be more accurate.  You can't take 15 points out of the lineup and the Big East Defensive Player of the year 1 game before Post Season starts and think it won't have an effect.

Saint John's is horrible and they were missing far and away their best player, and we let them hang around for a lot longer than we should have.  It's not so much that we lost to Pitt and MSU, its that the games were over with 15 minutes to go.  We weren't competetive in the games.   If we had McNeal and these results, F would have been the grade.
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CTWarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2007, 06:31:32 PM »
As far as O'Neill being poised for a long successful run at MU: hogwash. He wanted out and he bailed at the first decent opportunity.

Likewise, as good of a coach and recruiter as KO was, he was a miserable PR man for the university. He offended alumni at nearly every turn and treated students like crap. I may be mistaken here, but I believe the university's ability to get the McGuire Center done under Kevin O'Neill would have been markedly lower.

I admit to having too great a fondness for KO because after Dukiet killed the program I thought MU hoops would never recover.

Yours are good points, but my real point is that it is not the unbelievably difficult task some would have you believe to be successful at MU.   I do think if KO stayed we would have had a nice run as a top 25 team.  His top talent may be a shade beneath Crean's, but his teams had lots of depth.  But he certainly lacked loyalty, so good bye and good riddance.  I'd rather have Crean now. but I'd really rather have Crean and a couple of big, strong 6-9 guys who could play basketball.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2007, 06:32:05 PM »
The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime.  I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.

We will never know since McNeal didn't play.....next year should be a fun year.  Top 4 Big East finish, top 6 NCAA seed and hopefully a Sweet 16 appearance....IF everyone comes back and no critical injuries.

CTWarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2007, 06:40:47 PM »
The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime.  I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.
C'mon Chicos, tell the truth.  Was there any point in that Pitt game after there were 15 minutes to go that you really thought we might pull the game out?
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

Pakuni

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2007, 06:48:12 PM »
The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime.  I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.
C'mon Chicos, tell the truth.  Was there any point in that Pitt game after there were 15 minutes to go that you really thought we might pull the game out?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't MU down only three at halftime?

CTWarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2007, 06:50:34 PM »
15 minutes to go comes after halftime.  They pulled away early in the second half and we never seriously threatened after that.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

mugrack

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2007, 07:27:05 PM »
Knock off the fire Crean talk.  Who else could get decent players to come to Marquette?  The program was in the dumper, and on the verge of becoming just like Loyola of Chicago (even played in the same lame conference for a few years) before Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean arived in Milwaukee.  We all have to realize that MU is no Duke, North Carolina or Florida.  What is the draw for top notch players to come to Marquette?  Crean has the knowledge and likability factor and can convince some top players to come to MU, despite the negatives for some kids, like the urban campus or cold weather.  People who want to fire Crean didn't have to suffer thorough the Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane years. Crean had everything to do with College Gameday coming to MU that kind of publicity used to be unheard of at Marquette in the 80's and 90's.

Pakuni

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2007, 08:06:34 PM »
15 minutes to go comes after halftime.  They pulled away early in the second half and we never seriously threatened after that.

Actually, it was a five-point game at the 12:39-minute mark of the second half.

http://ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/gamecenter/playbyplay/NCAAB_20070308_MARQET@PITT

Big Papi

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2007, 11:26:33 PM »
The answer is an unequivocal "Yes".

Since Tom Crean's arrival, Marquette has:

- appeared in four NCAAs in the last six years, a better record than any MU coach since Hank Raymond (who, let's face it, didn't have to rebuild the program the way Crean has).

- spent more than twice as many weeks in the AP top 25 than in the previous 15 years combined.

- earned an invitation to one of the nation's premiere conferences

- appeared in a Final Four

- landed the best player and most positive advertisement for Marquette University ever

- built one of the premiere athletic facilities in the nation

- seen MU home games become some of the best attended in all of NCAA Division I, setting several attendance records along the way

Is Tom Crean alone responsible for all this? No. But he's certainly the primary figure in all these occurrences and because of that, he's worth every dime.




I didn't get to read the rest of this stimulating thread  ::) but let me guess at the responses of the posters who only spew negativity or only show up after a disappointing loss

- appeared in four NCAAs in the last six years, a better record than any MU coach since Hank Raymond (who, let's face it, didn't have to rebuild the program the way Crean has). 

Yea but Al was great and TC is no Al.

- spent more than twice as many weeks in the AP top 25 than in the previous 15 years combined. 

Yea but Al was great and TC is no Al.

- earned an invitation to one of the nation's premiere conferences. 

TC had nothing to do with that.  It was MU the institution that got us an invitation.

- appeared in a Final Four 

That was DWade.  TC had nothing to do with that.

- landed the best player and most positive advertisement for Marquette University ever 

TC was lucky.

- built one of the premiere athletic facilities in the nation 

That was DWade.  TC had nothing to do with that

- seen MU home games become some of the best attended in all of NCAA Division I, setting several attendance records along the way

Yea but Al used to sellout his games and why are we nagged to wear gold.  We are adults and can wear whatever we want.  Damn that TC.

4 out of our last 6 years (okay 4 out of 8 for all the bashers out there) we have made the NCAA and reached one final four appearance with a very good chance of being 5 out of 7 (5 out of 9 for you know who).  I don't recall too many post season successes since 1980 so I will gladly take another 4 out of 6 with another deep run.

mviale

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #87 on: March 18, 2007, 09:45:35 AM »
Pitt game was much closer than the score - fitz got in foul trouble and went to the bench, we cooled down.
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

mviale

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #88 on: March 18, 2007, 09:51:09 AM »
Does Al win it all in 77 without Butch Lee?
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

NCMUFan

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2007, 01:31:06 AM »
This is the type of garbage that put MU basketball program in the dumpster 25 years ago.  Seems like a lot of people are just waiting to be losers again.  Can't stand a fair amount of success.  So let's destroy the stability in recruiting, destroy the program development, destroy the national exposure, destroy the ranking because our pride was hurt because we lost in the first round in the NCAA.  I see the big "L" tattooed to your foreheads.

SoCalwarrior

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2007, 11:09:14 AM »
What garbage are you referring to?  Understand that this is a very long thread where the majority is debating one or two dissenters.  And one of these dissenters would rather incite the masses with ignorant posts.  And guess what, it works.  So much so that too many of us respond with, "why is everyone calling for Crean's head?"  Truth is "everyone" is one guy.  IMHO, ignore him and he'll go away until the next loss.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 04:08:27 PM by mu_hilltopper »

augoman

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Re: The Time Has Come...
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2007, 12:58:18 AM »
agreed, SoCal, one guy ranting too much doesn't make for a movement.  I probably criticize TC too much but certainly don't want a change; I just want to continue to see improvement.  In his coaching(bench and planning), his recruiting(I ordered some real bigs, didn't I?), MU's support of BBall(amazed at the level already), community's support of MU (maybe even fair treatment from JS), and the inevitable success(man, am I impatient).

 

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