UW Better Than UNC

[TallTitan34]

If Miss Texas loses to Miss California, is Miss Texas a failure or is she still a hot ass?

Miss Texas (left) vs. Miss California (right)

[MikeyT42]

84 --- answer me this:

In 2003 Marquette was ranked lower than UW, however MU went on to the final four that year. Would you still state that UW had a better year that year?

Numbers are numbers, I get it you're a stat guy, But you can't tell me honestly that UW had a better year that year! Doesn't pass the eyeball test.

[GGGG]

Seriously, this is a complete waste of time. I saw a number of people claiming this while surveying the UW Scout board last night. "Our coach is better, we win more games, we are a better program, JP is an idiot for going there..."

Their coach is better?  How many final fours did Roy take Kansas to after he took over when they were on probation?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wish I had $100 for every "UW has been more successful than MU since 2000" post you have made. You state it over and over and over again as if it has been a major controversy on the board. Who exactly are you arguing with? A poll on the subject would be virtually unanimous with the exception of people who just wanted to pull your chain - okay, so maybe a poll would be skewed towards inaccuracy and isn't a good idea. But what say we get off the past and talk about the future.

Apparently it is because whenever I say it there seems to be a rush of people that are in denial and don't agree. 

Based on a search of the last three years, you would have $900 in your pocket....don't spend it all in one place. 

[Tugg Speedman]

84 --- answer me this:

In 2003 Marquette was ranked lower than UW, however MU went on to the final four that year. Would you still state that UW had a better year that year?

Numbers are numbers, I get it you're a stat guy, But you can't tell me honestly that UW had a better year that year! Doesn't pass the eyeball test.

I completely understand what you're saying and I assume you're saying KenPom is not wrong.

All I'm trying to say is UW has had seasons better (or I'll give you "on Par") with UNC for several years now.  So when Chicos tries to bash MU by saying "we are not as good as UW" we would have to consistently be a top 10 team to have been better than UW over the last several years ... something even UNC could not do.  Yes, Chicos, you say this over and over to bash MU.

That said, this is a look at the past.  I think UW good run ends now, especially if Taylor comes out earlier (he should).  They are an NIT team next year.  We could be a ranked team next year and UNC could be #1.

[brewcity77]

Their coach is better?  How many final fours did Roy take Kansas to after he took over when they were on probation?

It was simply ridiculous. You'd think that he had went to play for Centenary when he had an offer from John Wooden's UCLA on the table. The delusion on the Badger Scout board the other night was probably the most complete I've ever seen in my life.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

Miss Texas (left) vs. Miss California (right)

Chicos can do better than either of these two.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's the point of this entire thread ... as I said in the first post ...

No shame in saying we were worse than UW.  So was UNC.  So has probably everyone save Duke.  Give them their due, thy are having a great run.

Chicos, you're taking the negative ... what's wrong with us that we cannot get UW post 2000 results. 
Praise UW, don't bash MU.

I'm taking the reality.  It's funny how many people juxtapose negative with reality.   The economy sucks balls...is this negative or reality?  James Franco was a poor host for the Academy Awards...negative or reality?


What's wrong with us that we can't get post UW 2000 results?  Maybe we will get there...we're working on what, 6 straight NCAA appearances?  That's quite good, which is why I take exception to you saying I believe MU is failing.  I do not, but I do think UW-madison is performing better year in and year out.

Here would be my initial list of why we have trailed them in this century

• We seem to not have an identity.  I know exactly what Wisconsin hoops is and will always be under that coach....everyone in the country knows. For MU, it changes year to year and that can be problematic in terms of recruiting, teaching, etc.  What is our identity?
• We have too many transfers this decade under both Crean and Buzz....lack of stability
• My belief is we need more 4 year players because that leads to more stability
• We have no Chicago area kids right now on the roster which is a bit troubling
• Both head coaches have missed on some recruits that we landed and turned out not to be that good
• I worry about our Midwest recruiting base.  Our "Texas connection" goes away when Buzz goes away...are we maintaining strong enough in-roads in the Midwest where our natural recruiting base is?

[Tugg Speedman]

Here would be my initial list of why we have trailed them in this century

• We seem to not have an identity.  I know exactly what Wisconsin hoops is and will always be under that coach....everyone in the country knows. For MU, it changes year to year and that can be problematic in terms of recruiting, teaching, etc.  What is our identity?

This was the case. It was Crean's fault (a problem he is having with IU as well).  Buzz is creating an identity (athletic switchables).  But I'll give you that UW has one of the strongest identities in country ... slow and white.

• We have too many transfers this decade under both Crean and Buzz....lack of stability

Welcome to 2011.  600 kids transferred this year, a record, broke the record of last year.  40% of Freshman transferred according to Jay Bilas.

It's a fact of life that affects a number of teams ... even final four teams. 

• My belief is we need more 4 year players because that leads to more stability

Haven't this been covered a thousand times already?  Buzz needed to balance the classes.  Done.  Next year has no Jucos so far.  This you're wrong about becuase Jucos filled an immediate need.

• We have no Chicago area kids right now on the roster which is a bit troubling

When did Chicago become a must for this team?  I guess the good take away from this is your not bashing Buzz over letting Wisconsin kids get away as that does not seem to be the case anymore.

• Both head coaches have missed on some recruits that we landed and turned out not to be that good

Their are 345 D1 schools and I'm going to guess that has happened at 345 schools.

• I worry about our Midwest recruiting base.  Our "Texas connection" goes away when Buzz goes away...are we maintaining strong enough in-roads in the Midwest where our natural recruiting base is?

Time will tell.

[muball]

First I agree UW has been better then MU during the Crean years and Buzz Years. Using rankings and records are misleading since the BEast has definitely been the strongest conference in the country since Buzz has been at the reigns and some of Creans years. If UW was in the BEast they would have another 3 or 3 losses if not more. They dont have the scoring depth to battle the BEast schedule. So using records when in different conferences is not a true comparison. Takes more of an overall view and then an open minded do they pass the smell test.

[Lennys Tap]

Apparently it is because whenever I say it there seems to be a rush of people that are in denial and don't agree. 

Based on a search of the last three years, you would have $900 in your pocket....don't spend it all in one place. 

So please point out this "rush of people" in this thread who are in denial and don't agree with you.

Still waiting for you to accept my offer and name your number on our wager.

[brewcity77]

First I agree UW has been better then MU during the Crean years and Buzz Years. Using rankings and records are misleading since the BEast has definitely been the strongest conference in the country since Buzz has been at the reigns and some of Creans years. If UW was in the BEast they would have another 3 or 3 losses if not more. They dont have the scoring depth to battle the BEast schedule. So using records when in different conferences is not a true comparison. Takes more of an overall view and then an open minded do they pass the smell test.

UW is 18-1 against teams 51+ in the RPI, and only 5-5 against teams in the top 50. In conference play, they are 9-1 against teams that are 51+, whereas Marquette is 5-0 in such games. Give them another 5 games against top teams and you would probably add another 2-3 losses to their resume, especially when you consider that Bo's teams are only 2-4 against the Big East in the past 4 seasons, with both wins coming against Marquette.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This was the case. It was Crean's fault (a problem he is having with IU as well).  Buzz is creating an identity (athletic switchables).  Is this a good identity to have?  A bunch of guys that all do the same thing?  Do we have any defensive specialists?  Any outstanding point guards?  Several consistent outside shooters?


But I'll give you that UW has one of the strongest identities in country ... slow and white...you forgot...winners...and smart basketball IQ...and solid defense...and solid rebounders...and consistent as hell...and never lose at home....

Welcome to 2011.  600 kids transferred this year, a record, broke the record of last year.  40% of Freshman transferred according to Jay Bilas.

It's a fact of life that affects a number of teams ... even final four teams.  Doesn't affect Wisconsin nearly to the same level, that's why I said in comparison to THEM, they have an advantage.  Their kids rarely leave.

Haven't this been covered a thousand times already?  Buzz needed to balance the classes.  Done.  Next year has no Jucos so far.  This you're wrong about becuase Jucos filled an immediate need.  He's looking at more JUCOS right now.  I don't think he's able to get off the JUCO love and we'll continue to have more JUCOs than the average top 40 team and certainly more than the team I was comparing us to...wasn't that what this exercise was about...comparing us to UW-madison?  Since when can't freshmen high school kids fit an immediate need?  What is this love affair that ONLY JUCO players can?

When did Chicago become a must for this team?  I guess the good take away from this is your not bashing Buzz over letting Wisconsin kids get away as that does not seem to be the case anymore.  Marquette has had a strong Chicago connection through many years in this program.  It's a bit startling that we have no one on the roster from the Chicago area where this once was a main recruiting enclave for us.

Their are 345 D1 schools and I'm going to guess that has happened at 345 schools.

Time will tell.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos can do better than either of these two.

Nah, but at least I recognize them both as good looking.  JayBee would still be vacillating on that decision.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So please point out this "rush of people" in this thread who are in denial and don't agree with you.

Still waiting for you to accept my offer and name your number on our wager.

In this thread?  No.  In other threads over the last few years...plenty.  What offer and wager...I skim through your stuff nowadays if I bother to read it at all.

[Lennys Tap]

In this thread?  No.  In other threads over the last few years...plenty.  What offer and wager...I skim through your stuff nowadays if I bother to read it at all.

Skim through? That's pretty funny. You already replied to part of the post that contains my offer.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Skim through? That's pretty funny. You already replied to part of the post that contains my offer.

LOL...the exact definition of skimming, ace...I read PART of your post and replied to that PART.  That's skimming.  

So what's your bet and offer because I obviously didn't skim THAT PART....which is exactly what I said in the first place.

rocky' edit: remove pic

[GGGG]

About the whole 600 kids transfer statistic....they don't leave the good programs...the stable programs...anywhere near the rate that they leave the bad programs with the sucky coach that just got fired.

The fact is, we need to recruit kids that don't leave.  Will they occasionally?  Of course.  However Buzz has had way too many.  We have had eight players who either transferred, or who have signed LOIs here and never played, who are no longer with the program less than three years of when Buzz took over.  That isn't good and needs to stop if we expect to have long-term stability.

[4everwarriors]

Miss Texas (left) vs. Miss California (right)

I'm figuring' BeeJay doesn't think either one is the tits.

[texaswarrior74]

All you need to know to understand.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/travel/news/story?id=6062971

Be sure to check the photo gallery embedded in the article

Then there's this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/travel/news/story?id=3881951

[Tugg Speedman]

About the whole 600 kids transfer statistic....they don't leave the good programs...the stable programs...anywhere near the rate that they leave the bad programs with the sucky coach that just got fired.

The fact is, we need to recruit kids that don't leave.  Will they occasionally?  Of course.  However Buzz has had way too many.  We have had eight players who either transferred, or who have signed LOIs here and never played, who are no longer with the program less than three years of when Buzz took over.  That isn't good and needs to stop if we expect to have long-term stability.

Nice Rationalization ....

Just this year, Are these stable programs?  I see a lot more Georgetown, UCLA, Kentucky and UNC (a lot!) on this year's list than MU.

Name             Pos     Ht/Wt   Year  To              From
Omar Wattad        F    6-5/225   Jr   Chattanooga     Georgetown
Olek Czyz         PF    6-7/240   So   Nevada          Duke
Quintrell Thomas  PF    6-8/245   So   UNLV            Kansas
Drew Gordon       PF    6-9/245   Jr   New Mexico      UCLA
Diamond Taylor    SG    6-4/175   Fr   Southern Ill.   Wisconsin
Kevin Galloway     F    6-7/215   Sr   Texas Southern  Kentucky
Scottie Haralson  SG    6-4/220   So   Tulsa           Connecticut
Nikita Meshcharakov  PF 6-7/215   Jr   Wake Forest     Georgetown
Twany Beckham SG 6-5/195 Mississippi State Kentucky
Darnell Dodson SG 6-7/215 Kentucky Southern Mississippi
Reggie Smith PG 6-0/175 Marquette UNLV
David Wear PF 6-10/225 North Carolina UCLA
Travis Wear PF 6-10/220 North Carolina UCLA
Jamil Wilson SF 6-7/210 Oregon Marquette
Matt Carlino SG 6-1/170 BYU UCLA
Larry Drew PG 6-2/180 ???? North Carolina
Will Graves SF 6-6/235 ???? North Carolina  
Korie Lucious PG 5-11/170 Iowa State  Michigan State
Shawn Williams SF 6-6/225 Texas Southern Methodist

Add
Why did Buzz keep "playing nice" with Tokoto even after he knew he was not coming to MU?  Because 40% transfer, even from UNC and as I wrote in another thread, their is a 40% chance he transfers (40% chance everyone transfers).  It's the way the world works now.

[Lennys Tap]

Wow. UNC with 4 transfers in 6 months? Is there any place more "unstable"? How could Tokoto possibly opt for a program like that?

[GGGG]

So of the "600 transfers per year," you pick out 20 from stable programs that is that supposed to prove something?  And if you subtract that ones that occured with a coaching change or because the kid got suspended, it is even less.

[Tugg Speedman]

So of the "600 transfers per year," you pick out 20 from stable programs that is that supposed to prove something?  And if you subtract that ones that occured with a coaching change or because the kid got suspended, it is even less.

You said, they don't leave the good programs...the stable programs...anywhere near the rate that they leave the bad programs with the sucky coach that just got fired.

So unless you consider Kentucky, UCLA, Georgetown and UNC bad programs, this statement is wrong.

You're using a dated idea of how the college basketball world works.  Welcome to 2011 where kids transfer like we change underwear.  It says nothing about the programs, it's just the way the world works now.  So, your highlighted statement above is a dated perception of what transferring means.

[brewcity77]

So of the "600 transfers per year," you pick out 20 from stable programs that is that supposed to prove something?  And if you subtract that ones that occured with a coaching change or because the kid got suspended, it is even less.

It just shows that we are no more or less stable than these programs. Sure, Maymon, Mbao, and Smith left. It happens, and not just to us but
to plenty of top schools. And did I miss the coaching change at UNC, Duke, or Kentucky? All he's saying is that we're not in dire straits.