D Wade Video at IU's Haunted Halloween BB Event

[Pakuni]

Is calling a kid, whom you've probably never seen play, overhyped, in order to make his potential coach look bad any better?

I'm calling the kid overhyped because I believe he, like his brothers, has been overhyped.
It has nothing to do with who his potential coach may or may not be. It has to do with a time-honored tradition in Indiana of hyping up small-town kids (Damon Bailey?).
If you don't share that opinion, fine. Maybe I'm wrong. Make the third Zeller will live up to expectations his brothers haven't. But don't attribute to me motivations when you have no clue what you're talking about. I am not, nor have I ever been, one of the consistent Crean bashers around here. In fact, I was one of the few who didn't call for a public hanging (yes, that's hyperbole) when he left and I've largely avoided any discussion of what he's doing at Indiana. Because I don't care. Someone asked here for an opinion. I gave mine.

[Avenue Commons]

Dwyane Wade is a grown ass man and can do whatever he wants for whoever he wants.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Wade can do whatever he wants and I don't think it's a huge deal, but I think it's in poor taste and kind of embarrassing for Crean to be using one of Marquette's former players to recruit for him. I don't recall Bill Self using Deron Williams to get kids to come to Kansas. How about Roy Williams...does he use Hinrich to get kids to NC? Does Calipari use Marcus Camby to get kids to Kentucky? I could extend the list. It's just kind of an awkward and odd situation and I would think Indiana fans would kind of think the same thing. Shouldn't Crean be selling his program rather something he fell into 7 years ago?

Not trying to be combative, but do we really know that those coaches don't use their former players from other schools?

Certainly these former players could be featured in recruiting videos that we (the fans) don't see, and mentioned in recruiting visits. Hell, they could be at midnight madness, and we probably wouldn't hear about it.

Quite frankly, if Bill Self is recruiting a PG, he should definitely mention Derron Williams, and show him Williams highlight videos.

There is no award for second place in recruiting, so coaches should leverage every angle they can.

[Daniel]

Certainly D Wade and Tom Crean could do whatever they heck they want to do, and that is completely fine.  But I would hope that somewhere along the line, if we ask, D Wade would help us recruit a kid to Marquette and talk about how great a place it was for him, as an insitution etc. Be true to your school sometimes.  And I am sure he would help if asked.  Sure Crean was his coach, and so there is some connection between Wade doing well and Crean coaching him well.  But he went to Marquette, and I would hope he'd support the institution if asked to help land a recruit for Marquette.

[nyg]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Hanner-Perea-96521

I don't know if this kid was there, but he just committed to IU.

#10 ranked recruit in 2012.  #4 PF in class.  Nice get.

[tower912]

And some of the IU scout board denizens are telling the MU smacktalkers who said that Crean can't recruit a big to. well, hush. 

[4everwarriors]

You don't see DeAndrae Jordan in MU shorts, do you?

[ChicosBailBonds]

And despite all that, Crean is still a fairly crapty recruiter (Wesley and Lazar the exceptions of course).  Hey, if you're full of crap, some people can see it, some can't.  Not a fault of yours (the one full of crap). usually they're the ones most disconnected to their crap trowing. 

Wesley and Lazar are the exceptions?  I think the list is much deeper than that, but whatever.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why people dislike you so.
You know very well I've repeatedly said I don't put much stock into player rankings, and yet you've built an entire response around the false notion that I "support them so much" and am "very into" them.

I'm not here to make friends....plenty of people really like me in this world and plenty don't.  I can live with that.   

If I incorrectly labeled you as one of those that loves the ratings, then my apologies. You shift so much on your arguments with Marquette84 and others, I can't keep track of what you're saying half the time, but if you say that's the case, fine.  There are plenty here that do believe in the ratings, that is until it goes against their argument and they run away from them faster than Dems are from B.O. this election season.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Please uninclude me in the "we" who would scream like a little girl if MU landed any of the Zeller brothers.

So if MU landed the 14th best player in the country you wouldn't be happy?  You...especially.  Interesting, especially with our stud big men that we've landed the last 3 decades.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wade can do whatever he wants and I don't think it's a huge deal, but I think it's in poor taste and kind of embarrassing for Crean to be using one of Marquette's former players to recruit for him. I don't recall Bill Self using Deron Williams to get kids to come to Kansas. How about Roy Williams...does he use Hinrich to get kids to NC? Does Calipari use Marcus Camby to get kids to Kentucky? I could extend the list. It's just kind of an awkward and odd situation and I would think Indiana fans would kind of think the same thing. Shouldn't Crean be selling his program rather something he fell into 7 years ago?

How do you know Wade didn't offer to help?

[4everwarriors]

How 'bout if we just settle for the moans of a lady of the evening?

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Hanner-Perea-96521

I don't know if this kid was there, but he just committed to IU.

#10 ranked recruit in 2012.  #4 PF in class.  Nice get.

They are picking up a lot of good recruits which is why all this nonsense coming out of the haters here is so freak'n stupid. 

He felt he couldn't recruit some of the kids he wanted at MU, he left and now he's landing kids he couldn't at MU.  Maybe he needed that assist by coaching at IU and having all the benefits that go along with.  Buzz has proven to be a solid recruiter, though he is also showing that in a year where there aren't as many minutes it's harder to recruit to a place like MU....the same situation Crean had.  He's also showing that landing a big at MU has been very tough, something Crean also couldn't do but has now landed 3 at IU and may land a fourth in the next few weeks.

[Lennys Tap]

So if MU landed the 14th best player in the country you wouldn't be happy?  You...especially.  Interesting, especially with our stud big men that we've landed the last 3 decades.

Happy? Sure. Scream like a little girl? Not my style.

[HoopsMalone]

They are picking up a lot of good recruits which is why all this nonsense coming out of the haters here is so freak'n stupid. 

Your perspective is mostly right I think here.  However, people are assigning Crean different expectations.  When Crean left, I think the standard was going to be a few good recruits every year since Crean was so great and IU was such an easy place to recruit to.  The talent instate for 2011 and 2012 was supposed to be like fish in a barrel for Crean.  Playing time is/was there to be had, you had a great coach, a great recruiter, and a great program.  Even with these 2012 pickups, there is no way he has met expectations from April 2008. 

It is probably more of a matter of lower Crean's expectations and noticing that he has always gotten good players once every three years and he will continue to do that at IU.  If "It's Indiana, It's Indiana" then it shouldn't matter who the coach is when recruiting in state.  A drunk boxer will land a punch every once in a while if it is really that easy. 

So there is still a fair perspective that Crean has barely done better recruiting at IU than he did at MU.  He basically landed the equivalent of Butch at IU which he coudn't at MU.  It was probably a good move for Crean but I think Crean has barely met expectations at best with recruiting.  I honestly thought he would be cleaning up better than he has, even after seeing what he did at MU.  I did not expect him to be a Cody Zeller decision away from two dud classes in a row with tons of PT to sell.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I don't have a problem with DW helping TC at IU.  So long as he doesn't denigrate MU in the process.  Just as DW can't attest to Buzz's coaching abilities, he also can't speak to the type of university IU is.

[77ncaachamps]

And some of the IU scout board denizens are telling the MU smacktalkers who said that Crean can't recruit a big to. well, hush.  

Tijan Jobe, Tom Pritchard, Kyle Taber, Bobby Capobianco, Bawa Muinru, Christian Watford, Derek Elston...

Am I missing an impact player here?!?

Should a team that has its PG (Jeremiah Rivers) as its second leading rebounder TALK about big men landing in IU?

[Coleman]

Dwyane Wade is a grown ass man and can do whatever he wants for whoever he wants.

+10000000000000000000000000000000

Conversation over.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your perspective is mostly right I think here.  However, people are assigning Crean different expectations.  When Crean left, I think the standard was going to be a few good recruits every year since Crean was so great and IU was such an easy place to recruit to.  The talent instate for 2011 and 2012 was supposed to be like fish in a barrel for Crean.  Playing time is/was there to be had, you had a great coach, a great recruiter, and a great program.  Even with these 2012 pickups, there is no way he has met expectations from April 2008. 

It is probably more of a matter of lower Crean's expectations and noticing that he has always gotten good players once every three years and he will continue to do that at IU.  If "It's Indiana, It's Indiana" then it shouldn't matter who the coach is when recruiting in state.  A drunk boxer will land a punch every once in a while if it is really that easy. 

So there is still a fair perspective that Crean has barely done better recruiting at IU than he did at MU.  He basically landed the equivalent of Butch at IU which he coudn't at MU.  It was probably a good move for Crean but I think Crean has barely met expectations at best with recruiting.  I honestly thought he would be cleaning up better than he has, even after seeing what he did at MU.  I did not expect him to be a Cody Zeller decision away from two dud classes in a row with tons of PT to sell.

My guess is you will see over the long run that he will pull in better classes at IU year over year then he did at MU.  People here jumped the gun, not surprisingly, because he didn't have stellar classes in the first couple of years.  Fact of the matter is that they were way behind in terms of recruiting in that state, basically started over from scratch, etc.  In my opinion, that lack of perspective here has blinded a lot of people that are using emotion over brain power.  This is why I continued to tell many doubters here that he was there for the long haul and the president and Fred Glass were totally on board.

The nonsense about the rumblings of him being fired or some of the fans upset and ready to fold on the team was a total joke.  Sure, a few dimwits on a message board, but no one of substance.

Crean will be there a long time and I suspect that will rub a lot of people here the wrong way....it most certainly is going to make a good number of folks here back down from the "he'll be gone within 4 years" mantra.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tijan Jobe, Tom Pritchard, Kyle Taber, Bobby Capobianco, Bawa Muinru, Christian Watford, Derek Elston...

Am I missing an impact player here?!?

Should a team that has its PG (Jeremiah Rivers) as its second leading rebounder TALK about big men landing in IU?

I believe they're talking about the 3 highly ranked bigs they have landed in the last few months, not the list you have listed above which are basically the guys he had to get simply to field a team

Perea  6-8" very highly regarded  (if you're into rankings...10th in the nation)
Jurkin 7-0"  again, if you're into rankings (54th in one rating, top 20 in two others)
Lyles 6-10"  Considered #1 recruit in the class of 2014 in some rankings

Of course, if they get Zeller, that would be another big at 6-10" and ranked also in the top 15.


Safe to say, Mr. Crean is able to get very highly rated bigs to play for him at Indiana, but not at Marquette.  Let's hope Buzz can finally land one of these guys and make it routine here at MU.

[HoopsMalone]

My guess is you will see over the long run that he will pull in better classes at IU year over year then he did at MU.  People here jumped the gun, not surprisingly, because he didn't have stellar classes in the first couple of years.  Fact of the matter is that they were way behind in terms of recruiting in that state, basically started over from scratch, etc.  In my opinion, that lack of perspective here has blinded a lot of people that are using emotion over brain power.  This is why I continued to tell many doubters here that he was there for the long haul and the president and Fred Glass were totally on board.

The nonsense about the rumblings of him being fired or some of the fans upset and ready to fold on the team was a total joke.  Sure, a few dimwits on a message board, but no one of substance.

Crean will be there a long time and I suspect that will rub a lot of people here the wrong way....it most certainly is going to make a good number of folks here back down from the "he'll be gone within 4 years" mantra.

I think you have the right perspective.  Crean should do better at IU for sure.  Better program, new facilities sound great, more talent it seems year after year coming out of the state compare to up in WI.  

I just think the way he left MU and went to IU set the bar higher than it should have been, and maybe you always had the more realistic expectations.  When he went to IU, I remember Hoosier fans saying that he will make them forget Bob Knight.  I remember people salivating at the 2011 and 2012 class and thinking Crean will pull a few of those and the day will be saved.  He did for 2012, but even with Zeller if he goes he still missed a lot in 2011.  Some IU fans thought he would be similar to Calipari or Self and pull in one and done studs.  Maybe he was not allowed to because they want a no-nonsense atmosphere and that would be distracting.  But he certainly was not able to do that in 2010.  

Point is, he left here and did the "It's Indiana" thing and people had high expectations.  The expectations for some was that he would be on par with the other historic top 5 or 6 programs.  He has not done that so many people will think he failed.  

Failing or not failing on the recruiting trail is a point of view.  I think Anderson as a 4 star top 100 player is enough to make this class good enough as long as Buzz adds some role players with the last two spots.  Others wanted to see us build on the 5-star trend and land another, so they see this year's recruiting class as a disappointment.  

I think it is fair to say that Crean has not lived up to his savior expecations, but can do well.  But the "It's Indiana" stuff from him and the people thinking that he could out-do Bob Knight that drive the high expecations.  If you set the bar that high, then Crean has basically failed until now.  If you look at what Crean did at MU and factor in what a program like Indiana should get regardless of the coach, he is closer to meeting expectations.  

[HoopsMalone]

Lyles 6-10"  Considered #1 recruit in the class of 2014 in some rankings

That is an interesting offer.  At 6'10" he probably dominated 8th grade, but it would be really hard to judge if he really is that good yet.  Who knows?  He will probably grow a little more and could be worth having regardless if he shows that he can lay the ball in already. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you have the right perspective.  Crean should do better at IU for sure.  Better program, new facilities sound great, more talent it seems year after year coming out of the state compare to up in WI.  

I just think the way he left MU and went to IU set the bar higher than it should have been, and maybe you always had the more realistic expectations.  When he went to IU, I remember Hoosier fans saying that he will make them forget Bob Knight.  I remember people salivating at the 2011 and 2012 class and thinking Crean will pull a few of those and the day will be saved.  He did for 2012, but even with Zeller if he goes he still missed a lot in 2011.  Some IU fans thought he would be similar to Calipari or Self and pull in one and done studs.  Maybe he was not allowed to because they want a no-nonsense atmosphere and that would be distracting.  But he certainly was not able to do that in 2010.  

Point is, he left here and did the "It's Indiana" thing and people had high expectations.  The expectations for some was that he would be on par with the other historic top 5 or 6 programs.  He has not done that so many people will think he failed.  

Failing or not failing on the recruiting trail is a point of view.  I think Anderson as a 4 star top 100 player is enough to make this class good enough as long as Buzz adds some role players with the last two spots.  Others wanted to see us build on the 5-star trend and land another, so they see this year's recruiting class as a disappointment.  

I think it is fair to say that Crean has not lived up to his savior expectations, but can do well.  But the "It's Indiana" stuff from him and the people thinking that he could out-do Bob Knight that drive the high expectations.  If you set the bar that high, then Crean has basically failed until now.  If you look at what Crean did at MU and factor in what a program like Indiana should get regardless of the coach, he is closer to meeting expectations.  

Well, the fact of the matter is that even though it is one of the 5 or 6 historic top programs, I'm hard pressed to remember another coach in recent history that had to take over one of those programs with basically zero players.  I mean, literally, he had one player returning who scored something like 8 points all year long the previous season.

Plus, IU has been struggling for the better part of the last decade.  They were petering out with Knight.  Mike Davis was never a good fit (yes, they made the run one year to the championship), and Kelvin was a cheating machine. 

So your point is well taken, the expectations were there for some, but I think anyone on the inside knew those expectations were ridiculous.  They started from scratch, literally.  Some IU fans that are imbalanced certainly made hay with some of those expectations.  And certainly some folks here that did so only because they hate the man, made absurd statements as well.  When TC said "it's Indiana", he was right, but that rubbed a lot of people here wrong.  I never understood why.  Hell, I was a lot more pissed when Kevin O'Neill said it's Tennessee.  That should have pissed everyone off.  Indiana is a better basketball program long term than MU is.  It just is. That doesn't mean we can't have a better decade than them, but over the long haul of many decades and on the average year to year, IU will have more going for it.  Some people here take this as sacrilege.  Why?  They're one of the all-time great programs.  We are one of the all-time top 35 programs and have plenty to be proud of, but if someone is given the opportunity to take one of the 4 or 5 great programs...you do it in a heartbeat.  And hell yes, you say "it's Indiana" because he isn't talking to us, he's talking to the IU faithful and that's what THEY want to hear.

[HoopsMalone]

When TC said "it's Indiana", he was right, but that rubbed a lot of people here wrong.  I never understood why. 

I am more likely to bash Crean than defend him, and I have been told to get over it and what not.  And the jealous ex-girlfriend analogy has been thrown around to many (but not from you) and I really hate that analogy.  You cannot cheat on/dump your girlfriend and say "It's XYZ Playboy Bunny."  That just isn't right.   

You can, though, leave your job for a better one and say "It's XYZ Company" as your reason.  And that is what Crean did, which is basically one of your points.  Not as big of a deal you are right.

He did handle his leave a little like Lebron handled his decision though, which was disappointing, and he has not done all that well even given what he started with down at IU.  There are plenty of things to criticize about Crean from April 2008-present, but he may deserve more context than he gets from the MU community now.  He has creaned many players (which is too common), he has missed on a lot of close to home talent (though he cannot be expected to bat 1.000, but still a let down), and his teams have lost to some mid-majors and been blown out by Iowa. 

There are also MU basketball/program related things about Crean that will frustrate me forever (the hand off offense, D James taking the bulk of the shots when others would have been better, Karate Kid Marquette Madness, his insistence that Scott Merritt take the last shots the year after the Final Four, the Thanksgiving tourney banner), so he will be forever bashed for some things on this board, and forever (deep-down though not outwardly) appreciated for the Al, the Big East, DWade, the Final Four, and leaving at the right time so we could get a better X's and O's coach.  Those are pretty reasonable things that get manifested into a lot of threads. 

You get accused of blindly loving him for bringing up some of the good, others get psychoanalyzed for not being able to get over their ex-girlfriend when bringin up the bad or him at all.  C'est la vie.  I think all perspectives add to the convo.

[brewcity77]

Good post, Hoops. A pretty solid, and definitely honest, summation.