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Author Topic: Is DePaul Really Even A Rival Anymore?  (Read 9780 times)
Tom Crean's Tanning Bed
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« on: January 18, 2010, 02:38:50 PM »

I ask this as a serious question looking at the directions of the programs and the overall results of the series between the two teams in the last 20 years.

Sure, DePaul/MU share a lot of history, including some great games in the 1970s between Al and Ray Meyer, conference affliation/moves over the last 20 years, and are similar institutions being urban Catholic universities in major metropolitan areas. 

But since 1989-90, Marquette has really wrestled control of the rivalry.  In the last 40 games between DePaul-Marquette, Marquette is 30-10.  DePaul hasn't won in Milwaukee since 2000.

Since 1990, Marquette has won 3 conference regular season/tournament titles (Great Midwest 1994, CUSA Tournament 1997, CUSA Regular Season 2003) and made 10 NCAAs (including the Sweet 16 in 1994 and Final Four in 2003) and 6 NITs (including losing in the '95 NIT Final).  In that same period, DePaul won CUSA in 2003-2004 (5-way split for the conference title), and made 4 NCAAs and 6 NITs, winning only 1 NCAA game in this period. 

Both programs have gone thru the same number of coaches (4 each, not including Tracy Webster's interim stint this year).  Marquette posted only 2 losing seasons in the last 20 years, but DePaul's had 8 in 20 years (going towards 9 right now). Since joining the Big East, Marquette is 5-1 head to head vs. DePaul, and has posted 10+ wins each year, finishing no lower than 6th. DePaul, though, has posted no more than 9 wins in each of their first 4 Big East seasons.

I know for a lot of older alums DePaul is still considered a rival based on the shared characteristics between the institutions and the rivalry between the programs in the 1970s and early 1980s. For younger alums like myself, other than geography, there is nothing that really makes DePaul a serious rival anymore in my mind.


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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 02:45:39 PM »

Not to mention the fact that when we play at their place, it's practically a 10th Conference Home game for us.
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The Man in Gold
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 03:08:25 PM »

I hate FIB's...down with DePaul
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 03:39:09 PM »

I have only followed MU hoops since 2002 (graduated 06) and can't say that I have ever considered DePaul a rival. Obviously knowing the history I can see how some might but they aren't even fun to hate. Watching the Deiner boys go at it in 03-04 was entertaining but other than that they mean nothing.
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HoopsMalone
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 03:41:22 PM »

I think the FIBs thing keeps DePaul a rival.  I think the hating that our good friends from Wisconsin do on people from Chicago is pretty unfounded.  (Especially in the context of Cubs fans cheering for the Cubs at a Brewers game, Cubs fans drinking beer at a Brewers game, one Cubs fan swearing at a Brewers game and Brewers fans generalizing that all Cubs fans swear around kids, etc.)  But it is what it is.  My friends from Chicago and I have given up on trying to understand it.  

DePaul was a great rival in the 70's and there will always be something to it.  It will feel like a bigger game than Providence or St. Johns no matter how good or bad the teams are.

DePaul is also a good coach away from getting McNeal or Reggie Smith to stay in Chicago, so there will be recruiting battles that can enhance the rivalry as well.  

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romey
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 03:48:39 PM »

MU fan since 1970.  I was young, but I don't recall it being a "rivalry" necessarily in the 70's.  Yes, we played them home and home I recall, but I think we pretty much beat them reguklarly then.  Where can I look that up?  I may be wrong, but i think the rivalry was more in the 60's???
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MUsoxfan
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 03:57:59 PM »

A large part of us FIBS can't stand Cubs fans either Cool
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HoopsMalone
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2010, 04:03:42 PM »

A large part of us FIBS can't stand Cubs fans either Cool

haha.  fair point.    All I know is that every baseball team's fans has a negative stereotype about their fans, and if the negative stereotype for the Cubs is a really, really attractive girl who does not know much about baseball, I will take it and all the hate coming from the north and the south.

At least we can all unite behind Marquette beating DePaul
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Ari Gold
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2010, 04:06:12 PM »


DePaul was a great rival in the 70's and there will always be something to it.  It will feel like a bigger game than Providence or St. Johns no matter how good or bad the teams are.


Agree. It's not a rivalry in the traditional sense, but because of geographical location and similarities between the schools I think that MU/DePaul feels like a bigger game than some other BE bottom dwellers
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PJDunn
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 04:15:44 PM »

For many of us who only inhabited the great state of Wisconsin for their 4 years of undergrad, the Badgers aren't that important of a rival either.  Other than laughing at their overblown sense of academic prowess once a year, that game means much less than Louisville or Pitt to me.

It will be to our benefit if DePaul rebounds and the rivalry returns to what it was in the late 70s and early to mid 80s.
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LancesOtherNut
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 04:16:12 PM »

I'm just pissed that it's on stupid WMLW again...

The only player that I can pick out with 100% accuracy is Rob Frozena.  That station is the suck.
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bma725
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 04:19:08 PM »

MU fan since 1970.  I was young, but I don't recall it being a "rivalry" necessarily in the 70's.  Yes, we played them home and home I recall, but I think we pretty much beat them reguklarly then.  Where can I look that up?  I may be wrong, but i think the rivalry was more in the 60's???

You're pretty much right on this.

If a rivalry is based on the notion that two teams are relatively equal, and thus there's a chance that either one could win the game....well it's tough to say DePaul was ever really a rival.  Throughout our histories, when DePaul has been good it's nearly always come at the times that MU was bad, and vice versa.  There have been very few years where both teams were good at the same time.

For example, in the 1970s:

MU

W - 251 L - 41
9 NCAA Appearances (1 Championship, 1 Runner Up, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16)
1 NIT Appearances (1 Championship)

DePaul
W - 165 L -101
3 NCAA Appearances (1 Final Four, 1 Elite 8, 1 Sweet Sixteen)
0 NIT Appearances.

In terms of head to head during that era, MU went 16-3.  Al was 14-1, Hank was 1-2.  Tough to call it much of a rivalry given the dominance during the McGuire days, and the fact that DePaul didn't really get good again until Al retired and players that planned on coming to MU decided to go to DePaul.
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bma725
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 04:26:43 PM »

It will be to our benefit if DePaul rebounds and the rivalry returns to what it was in the late 70s and early to mid 80s.

It wasn't much of a rivalry then either.  From the time Al retired until the first year of KO, MU went 5-13 against DePaul.  Some of the games were close, but it's tough to call something a rivalry when you do that poorly, especially given how well they'd done under McGuire in the 1970s (14-1).

Essentially when you look back at it, for as much as people have always wanted it to be a rivalry on the court, it really hasn't been.  It's been long periods of domination by one team which then switches to long periods of domination by the other team.  The only place where the rivalry really occurs, at least historically, is on the recruiting trails.
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 05:04:21 PM »

If saying DePaul is our rival nets us a mirror BE game with them every year, and thus, two easy wins, shortening the BE season from 18 to 16 real games .. I say: DEPAUL IS OUR RIVAL!
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 05:17:30 PM »

Respect the past...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29259894.html
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The Sultan of Sunshine
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2010, 05:37:20 PM »

Al was 14-1 v. Ray Meyer?  I never realized that.
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bma725
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2010, 05:43:40 PM »

Al was 14-1 v. Ray Meyer?  I never realized that.

In the 1970s, yes. 

Overall he was 20-6.  He went 0-4 his first two years, but once he had his players in place he only lost two more games to him.
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Tulsa Warrior
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2010, 05:57:21 PM »

In the early McGuire Days it was a natural geographic rivalry.  DePaul wasn't good but neither was Marquette.  Ray Meyer's days seemed well behind him.  Didn't George Mikan, one of the game's first big men, play for Meyer's back in the late 40s?

McGuire pretty much ran the table against DePaul and owned Chicago recruiting wars.  I remember a news conference back in the mid 70s where a bunch of reporters heard a rumor that Meyer's was retiring or DePaul was going to drop sports entirely.  The noozer was packed.  It didn't happen.

When Al left Marquette college ball was changing.  The Chicago Media became a recruiting arm of DePaul.  Mark Aguirre and several other blue chippers picked DePaul over Marquette.  They had a nice run for awhile.  Son, Joey Meyer, took over and could not keep it going.  He PO'ed a bunch of high school coaches and the recruiting pipeline dried up.

DePaul and Joey parted ways and a string of poor coaching hires followed.  Coach Latoa  (misspelled his name) cashed in quickly and crashed at his next job.  Was he frustrated over DePaul commitment to basketball and facilities?

The Big East needs a strong program in Chicago for marketing purposes.  It would be good for Marquette to have that geographic rival back.
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The Sultan of Sunshine
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2010, 06:02:20 PM »

DePaul and Joey parted ways and a string of poor coaching hires followed.  Coach Latoa  (misspelled his name) cashed in quickly and crashed at his next job.  Was he frustrated over DePaul commitment to basketball and facilities?


UConn's top assistant Dave Leitao.  Left DePaul and went to UVa after some mild success.  Fired last year at UVa.
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2010, 06:27:26 PM »

FYI, Loyola of Chicago was the bigger rival in the 1960s and early 70s.  The Ramblers won an NCAA title in the 60s and were beating Marquette in the early 1970s.  The were filling up Chicago Stadium.
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T-Bone
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 06:29:20 PM »

A large part of us FIBS can't stand Cubs fans either Cool
And let's not forget the Sox had 20+ seasons playing against the Brewers prior to '94 move to the NL. 
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 06:49:26 PM »

A couple of expansions to a few of the posts.  Joey Meyer didn't get a few of the CPL coaches mad at him he got blackballed by Sonny Landon Cox the coach at King at the time who for a number of years recruited talent to King and dominated the CPL,  Teddy Grubbs was a great player at DePaul who had some emotional issues and ended up leaving the program, Cox thought Joey should have waved a magic wand and made Grubbs better again and an NBA player, as much as I never liked Joey he got the short end of stick on this one.  There is also some thought the AD at the time wanted Joey out and stopped letting Joey take some kids who were academic risks so the combination of the two sried up the Chicago pipeline.

As to why Wisconsinites frown at FIBS I think it is an easy explanation.  Our friends to the south look down on Milwaukee and Wisconsin as a backwater burg but every Friday afternoon in the summer they can't wait to get into their cars, clog the roads and get to Wisconsin for the weekend.  It seems ironic to some of us that the place many think is backwards is where they want to spend their leisure time.  I have lived in both places and Milwaukee is more affordable and so much easier to get around it makes for a better lifestyle for me, some prefer the bigger city like Chicago and the culture, etc it offers that Milwaukee does not.
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romey
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2010, 07:10:03 PM »

In the 1970s, yes. 

Overall he was 20-6.  He went 0-4 his first two years, but once he had his players in place he only lost two more games to him.

I had some time on my hands so I went to Wiki and checked the results from 1970-1980.

Beginning in 1970 we won 13 straight until (ironically in our Championship year) we lost our second meeting of the year to them (at home) in OT 77-72.  We then won the next year at home (only one game that year).  Played them twice the next year ('78-'79 season) Lost 61-60 at Depaul when they were ranked #20 and then met them in the NCAA tourney when they were ranked #6 and lost 62-56. 

Played them the next season, technically in 1980, but it was the 79-80 season and we lost 92-85 at home when they were ranked #2.  So, as bama pointed out, Al owned Depaul in the 70's.  The last three losses were during Hank's regime.
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The Sultan of Sunshine
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2010, 07:13:31 PM »

As to why Wisconsinites frown at FIBS I think it is an easy explanation.  Our friends to the south look down on Milwaukee and Wisconsin as a backwater burg but every Friday afternoon in the summer they can't wait to get into their cars, clog the roads and get to Wisconsin for the weekend.  It seems ironic to some of us that the place many think is backwards is where they want to spend their leisure time. 


I like to spend my leisure time in the north woods of Wisconsin and the Florida panhandle.  Both are quite backwards.  In fact, I think the correlation of "places where people like to spend their leisure time" and "places that people generally view as backward," is a positive one.
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2010, 07:19:26 PM »

To the post two above this one...spoken like a true cheesehead (which I think is the counter-slur to FIB)
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