MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Slick on March 20, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
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The "powerful ACC" only gets 1 team in the Sweet 16.
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Love it. ESPN can get bent with their all ACC final fours projections.
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"The league isn't very tough," one ACC assistant said. "Too much finesse. You have to be tough to win in the NCAA tourney."
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18957070/acc-teams-ncaa-tournament-struggles-prove-conference-was-overrated
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Superbar
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"The league isn't very tough," one ACC assistant said. "Too much finesse. You have to be tough to win in the NCAA tourney."
This one of my big concerns with Wojo. The ACC particularly the original ACC tended to value skill and finesse over toughness. He can't help but bring this same bias to the way he builds the MU team. The problem is the Big East is a tough take no prisoners league. The league games are "knife fights" and the games are frequently called to allow this type of play to dominate. Buzz's teams thrived in this type of environment. I'm not so sure we can be successful playing ACC ball in the BE leave alone the tournament as this article seems to be saying.
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I'll be honest...I don't think this changes anything. The ACC is still a great league. However, the narrative that it was the best ever was always a false one.
The basis was the strength of the bottom of the league, that Pitt and NC State had all these great wins. The 2011 Big East, the league that actually did get 11 teams in, had just as good of resumes at the bottom of the league.
What irritates me is that it's about quantity and not quality. St. John's was 8th in our league and has wins over four tournament teams. Georgetown, in 9th place, has wins over four tournament teams. Both also own wins against Syracuse on the road, which was a big part of the "Pitt is so great" talking point.
If you want to look at the teams that didn't make it, I'll put St. John's and Georgetown up against the bottom of any league. And if you look at the Big 12, everyone that missed the tournament, from 7-10, they all have 2-3 wins against tourney teams.
It isn't just that the ACC isn't the best ever, it's that in terms of depth, it is the third best THIS YEAR! They got the same percentage of teams in as the Big 12 and less than the Big East.
The results of the tournament didn't change that. The ACC is a good league. It's just the third best league this year. But pundits ignore that because it has so many teams. They have quantity, but the Big 12 and Big East have true quality.
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Whenever I read folks talk about how physical a league is I think about people who talk about the weather where they live "If you don't like it just wait it will change quick enough" as if their weather is unique.
Read ACC blogs and they talk about how tough and physical the ACC is, the BIG 10? = same thing. I personally don't think there is much difference in physicality between conferences.
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Superbar
Superbar is not in the ACC.
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Sweet 16 Teams for:
Greatest College Basketball Conference Ever Assembled In the History of the Universe, Oh My God, Duke, Carolina, Syracuse, Hall of Fame Coaches How Can Anyone even Argue This Point
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Shell of a Once-great league now populated by glorified mid-majors that will never be the same and that will never amount to anything without Football revenue and ESPN coverage, and who's really just a one-trick pony with Villanova
2 (neither of whom are Villanova).
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"The league isn't very tough," one ACC assistant said. "Too much finesse. You have to be tough to win in the NCAA tourney."
This one of my big concerns with Wojo.
See Cain, Jamal. John, Theo. Eke, Ike.
Wojo is adjusting.
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Also of note, the ACC's 2nd-place team (Florida State) lost to the Big East's 7th place team (Xavier)...who was playing without Sumner.
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"The league isn't very tough," one ACC assistant said. "Too much finesse. You have to be tough to win in the NCAA tourney."
This one of my big concerns with Wojo. The ACC particularly the original ACC tended to value skill and finesse over toughness. He can't help but bring this same bias to the way he builds the MU team. The problem is the Big East is a tough take no prisoners league. The league games are "knife fights" and the games are frequently called to allow this type of play to dominate. Buzz's teams thrived in this type of environment. I'm not so sure we can be successful playing ACC ball in the BE leave alone the tournament as this article seems to be saying.
I hear this crap all the time.
Someone please demonstrate how one conference is any "tougher" or more "physical" than any other. Without subjective opinion.
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Superbar
No
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The big East we currently run in is no where near as physically tough or called the same way as when Crowder djo and butler were bruising people
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I hear this crap all the time.
Someone please demonstrate how one conference is any "tougher" or more "physical" than any other. Without subjective opinion.
Before the Mo Watson injury the three best teams in the BEast were Nova, Creighton, and Butler. Three jump shooting finesse teams. I think the "toughness" of the Big East is often overstated.
That being said, I do think our roster could use some more "toughness." Nova has Hart. Creighton has Patton. Butler has Wideman. Hence the recruitment of Cain, John, and Eke.
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I hear this crap all the time.
Someone please demonstrate how one conference is any "tougher" or more "physical" than any other. Without subjective opinion.
I agree with this to some degree. Where was all of this tough talk last year when the ACC was an astounding 19-7 with four Elite Eight teams? I doubt they got wimpy that quickly. ACC was simply a little overrated this year.
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I'll be honest...I don't think this changes anything. The ACC is still a great league. However, the narrative that it was the best ever was always a false one.
Of course it doesn't change anything, it's just funny. Ya don't always have to be the voice of reason man ha.
Also the year the Big East got 11 teams in, only 2 were alive after the first weekend (us being one).
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The problem is the Big East is a tough take no prisoners league. The league games are "knife fights" and the games are frequently called to allow this type of play to dominate. Buzz's teams thrived in this type of environment.
Uh, Buzz's Virginia Tech team lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament just the same way Wojo's Marquette team did.
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I hear this crap all the time.
Someone please demonstrate how one conference is any "tougher" or more "physical" than any other. Without subjective opinion.
It's all about the way games are officiated in the ACC. It caught up with dook yesterday and many of the others as well. All the hand checking, head rocking, flopping, and other crap that dook does regularly and NEVER gets called for were fouls yesterday. And in K's case yesterday, the refs weren't buying what he was selling like they do in the ACC. They didn't have their usual huge disparity in free throw (an advantage they rely on in ACC play) which was a great leveling force yesterday. Most of the ACC teams play to that style and were not able to adapt to the refs eating their whistles a lot and letting them just play.
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Also of note, the ACC's 2nd-place team (Florida State) lost to the Big East's 7th place team (Xavier)...who was playing without Sumner.
Which is why they were the Big East's seventh place team.
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It's all about the way games are officiated in the ACC. It caught up with dook yesterday and many of the others as well. All the hand checking, head rocking, flopping, and other crap that dook does regularly and NEVER gets called for were fouls yesterday. And in K's case yesterday, the refs weren't buying what he was selling like they do in the ACC. They didn't have their usual huge disparity in free throw (an advantage they rely on in ACC play) which was a great leveling force yesterday. Most of the ACC teams play to that style and were not able to adapt to the refs eating their whistles a lot and letting them just play.
Per my post above... how was the ACC 19-7 with four Elite Eight teams just one year ago? Did the refs completely change?
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Per my post above... how was the ACC 19-7 with four Elite Eight teams just one year ago? Did the refs completely change?
Yes, they formed a ref pool with the Big East. James Breeding can completely ruin a conference.
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I prefer our Big East Double round robin format to the ACC asymmetrical scheduling format. We are building very good rivalries across our whole league. Very hard to sweep an opponent in our league.
Clearly the ACC has some historic teams . The league built its tradition and reputation on basketball. They also have schools that are popular to attend . So they will always be strong. However, I don't see that league as above any of the other major conferences on a permanent basis. There is just too much talent out there for that to happen.
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Wonder what Dickie ("The Big Dukie and Roy Boy" ) Vitale thinks.
Team Experience beats one-and-doners.
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You mean dookie V but that's another story.
K doesn't historically develop bigs and in their traditional system, most bigs whole role is to set screens for his three point shooters and rebound. Additionally, year in and year out he has failed to develop his bench. With 9 or 20 (depending on who you talk to) burger boys on this year's team he only played 7 regularly. His starters average very high 30 minutes a game and are worn out by tournament time. I, for one, am sick of hearing the dook graduate / former player apologists on ESPN say he has had no bench the last two years....he has had a very deep bench of highly regarded /recruited players...he just doesn't play them. Bolden who is a burger boy scored something like 39 points ALL season with very little playing time.
Once he embraced the one and done model of recruiting his dispensing of playing time got even worse than it used to be. Look at how many transfers that program has had in the last few years.
He did less with more than any other coach in the country this year.
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You mean dookie V but that's another story.
K doesn't historically develop bigs and in their traditional system, most bigs whole role is to set screens for his three point shooters and rebound. Additionally, year in and year out he has failed to develop his bench. With 9 or 20 (depending on who you talk to) burger boys on this year's team he only played 7 regularly. His starters average very high 30 minutes a game and are worn out by tournament time. I, for one, am sick of hearing the dook graduate / former player apologists on ESPN say he has had no bench the last two years....he has had a very deep bench of highly regarded /recruited players...he just doesn't play them. Bolden who is a burger boy scored something like 39 points ALL season with very little playing time.
Once he embraced the one and done model of recruiting his dispensing of playing time got even worse than it used to be. Look at how many transfers that program has had in the last few years.
He did less with more than any other coach in the country this year.
Yep. The guy with have national titles and 12 final fours sucks. Fire K.
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K doesn't historically develop bigs and in their traditional system, most bigs whole role is to set screens for his three point shooters and rebound.
So Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, Ryan Kelly, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, and Jahlil Okafor all just got to the NBA on their looks?
Tell you what...make two lists. On the first list, put all the Duke big men from the past 25 years that were drafted to or played in the NBA. On the second list, put all the Duke bigs that weren't drafted or played in the NBA. I'm willing to bet dimes to dollars the former is a lot longer than the latter.
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So Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, Ryan Kelly, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, and Jahlil Okafor all just got to the NBA on their looks?
Tell you what...make two lists. On the first list, put all the Duke big men from the past 25 years that were drafted to or played in the NBA. On the second list, put all the Duke bigs that weren't drafted or played in the NBA. I'm willing to bet dimes to dollars the former is a lot longer than the latter.
Cherokee Parks! There is a name I haven't heard in ages.
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So Christian Laettner, Cherokee Parks, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, Ryan Kelly, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, and Jahlil Okafor all just got to the NBA on their looks?
Tell you what...make two lists. On the first list, put all the Duke big men from the past 25 years that were drafted to or played in the NBA. On the second list, put all the Duke bigs that weren't drafted or played in the NBA. I'm willing to bet dimes to dollars the former is a lot longer than the latter.
I'm so sick of you using facts, brew.
That's it! No Cabinet post for you! (Unless you have lots of rubles.)