MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 5DollarPitcher on February 16, 2017, 01:02:27 PM

Title: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on February 16, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
First of all, I know I'm a new poster - but this is not meant to be a troll post.

I am legitimately wondering if Wojo can recruit effective big men.  Everyone knows that the issue with our roster this year is lack of size.  Luke is a great kid, but he just isn't enough for us in the middle.  Pair that with the fact that you can never realistically play him for an entire game, and our team is consistently in trouble as a result - meaning we need to rely on our three point shooting (which is streaky at best).

But back to the point - Wojo has not recruited one legitimate "big man" since he started here.  The three recruits we have coming in next year would be better described as "bigger men" than what we have... not true "big men".  The tallest recruit is 6'9", I hardly think this will solve our center problem.

Froling is a nice transfer, but I saw him walking around campus the other day and.... he actually looks very out of shape.  Hopefully the trainers can get on his ass and get him in basketball shape, but it did not give me much hope.

Wojo's playing career aligns with the players he has recruited thus far, and I wonder if he is:
1. spending too much time recruiting guards
2. not capable of resonating with true big men

Thoughts are welcome....
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Badgerhater on February 16, 2017, 01:04:29 PM
MU's inability to recruit very tall people has been a scoop topic as long as its been on the internet.

Summary:  There are not very many of them to get and if they are any good they go to a top 5 team for their single year of college.  So it becomes a balance of recruiting project centers and those who can contribute more at the 4.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 16, 2017, 01:19:12 PM
I don't think a true center is necessary to the success of a basketball team these days. You are going to see a lot more Theo Johns at the 5 than Luke Fischers in the future.

I also haven't given up on Heldt. I think he has the potential to be a Chris Otule type contributor.

Froling is out of shape at this point. Despite that, he put up very good numbers off the bench for a talented SMU squad. Imagine what he could do once he does get in shape.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 01:24:43 PM
How much "time" would you like Wojo to put into recruiting "bigs?" For at least the next 2 years we will have Froling, Heldt, John, and Eke who can play only the 4 or 5 positions. You have 13 scholarships to use, so 31% of our roster will be used on the "big" positions, which make up 20% of a lineup.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 16, 2017, 01:24:54 PM
Crean sucks
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: BM1090 on February 16, 2017, 01:26:47 PM
....Henry Ellenson. 6'11 5 star recruit. I know he played the 4 for us, but if that's not a "big man", then I don't know...
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Litehouse on February 16, 2017, 01:36:09 PM
I'd consider Wojo our best coach at recruiting bigs since KO, and even he got kinda lucky with Key and Mac coming out of local catholic high schools.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Daniel on February 16, 2017, 01:38:22 PM
And I thought Froling and John were both 6'10"
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: #UnleashSean on February 16, 2017, 01:38:52 PM
I remember a pretty good big man he recruited last year. Does that count?
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: skianth16 on February 16, 2017, 01:45:04 PM
I don't think a true center is necessary to the success of a basketball team these days. You are going to see a lot more Theo Johns at the 5 than Luke Fischers in the future.

I also haven't given up on Heldt. I think he has the potential to be a Chris Otule type contributor.

Froling is out of shape at this point. Despite that, he put up very good numbers off the bench for a talented SMU squad. Imagine what he could do once he does get in shape.

I think you're right about the 5 not being a necessity in the college game. We've had success in the front court with undersized guys in recent years - Ox, Jae, Lazar

The rest of the post, however, I can't get on board with. Heldt has a long, long way to go to get to an Otule type presence on the floor. Outle at least had some muscle and seemed to hold his own physically more often than not. Heldt still has time to grow and gain some weight, but right now he seems to be behind the curve both physically and mentally to be a key contributor.

As far as Froling goes, his numbers aren't really all the impressive. All of his stats are from the non-con schedule, including such powerhouses as Gardner-Webb and Delaware State. And a fair number of those games appear to have been less than competitive, meaning there is a good chance that he got some garbage time fluff in there. I'm optimistic but not sold by any means on his ability to be a meaningful contributor right away.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: dgies9156 on February 16, 2017, 01:48:18 PM
....Henry Ellenson. 6'11 5 star recruit. I know he played the 4 for us, but if that's not a "big man", then I don't know...

Agreed.

Keep in mind that many of us believe Wojo recruited Henry thinking we would have him for two years. We would not be having this conversation if Henry was still with us.

It's acknowledged that when a team recruits a Henry, you know there always is a possibility that he's one-and-done. But he was such a good talent, he was worth the risk.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: avid1010 on February 16, 2017, 01:51:28 PM
Crean sucks
He is also a prick.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on February 16, 2017, 01:54:44 PM
First of all, I know I'm a new poster - but this is not meant to be a troll post.

I am legitimately wondering if Wojo can recruit effective big men.  Everyone knows that the issue with our roster this year is lack of size.  Luke is a great kid, but he just isn't enough for us in the middle.  Pair that with the fact that you can never realistically play him for an entire game, and our team is consistently in trouble as a result - meaning we need to rely on our three point shooting (which is streaky at best).

But back to the point - Wojo has not recruited one legitimate "big man" since he started here.  The three recruits we have coming in next year would be better described as "bigger men" than what we have... not true "big men".  The tallest recruit is 6'9", I hardly think this will solve our center problem.

Froling is a nice transfer, but I saw him walking around campus the other day and.... he actually looks very out of shape.  Hopefully the trainers can get on his ass and get him in basketball shape, but it did not give me much hope.

Wojo's playing career aligns with the players he has recruited thus far, and I wonder if he is:
1. spending too much time recruiting guards
2. not capable of resonating with true big men

Thoughts are welcome....
Four 6'10" Bigs are on next year's roster.  Heldt, Froling, John and Eke.  And 6' 7-8" Hauser and Cain are close by.  Wojo has actually done a great job recruiting bigs.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: tower912 on February 16, 2017, 02:01:56 PM
It isn't like you can go down to the corner and find quality 6'10 players at Starbucks.    And I think a case can be made that you are better off in the modern game with 6'9 stretch forwards who put on a little muscle.     Having said that.    Wojo has been here 3 years.    Heldt, Henry, Froling, Eke, Theo John.      That is as many 6'10 players as Buzz got in his time at MU and almost as many as Crean landed in 9 years. 
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 16, 2017, 02:09:41 PM
I hear Wojo needs to spend more time checking out their necks-- best only way to judge a recruit.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 02:11:27 PM
I hear Wojo needs to spend more time checking out their necks-- best only way to judge a recruit.

True, especially for bigs.  You can tell Theo is in the weight room with the head harness on every day.  Outstanding neck.  Second to none.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 16, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
As far as Froling goes, his numbers aren't really all the impressive. All of his stats are from the non-con schedule, including such powerhouses as Gardner-Webb and Delaware State. And a fair number of those games appear to have been less than competitive, meaning there is a good chance that he got some garbage time fluff in there. I'm optimistic but not sold by any means on his ability to be a meaningful contributor right away.

He was the second player off the bench for them. He wasn't getting garbage minutes. But I'm certainly not sold on him either. He could be great or he could need some work. I think he would be getting about 15-18 minutes a game for us if was on our team now.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: LAMUfan on February 16, 2017, 02:32:53 PM

Heldt has a long, long way to go to get to an Otule type presence on the floor. Outle at least had some muscle and seemed to hold his own physically more often than not. Heldt still has time to grow and gain some weight, but right now he seems to be behind the curve both physically and mentally to be a key contributor.

Heldt not being strong is not his problem, like not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 03:11:25 PM
The problem is more systemic than simply recruiting a big man.  The problem is what kind of a university Marquette wants to be.  Does MU want to be competitive at the highest level of college basketball?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that question. 

Did MU go looking to join the Big East or did the Big East come looking for Marquette?  Who was buying and who was selling?
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 03:14:12 PM
The problem is more systemic than simply recruiting a big man.  The problem is what kind of a university Marquette wants to be.  Does MU want to be competitive at the highest level of college basketball?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that question. 

Did MU go looking to join the Big East or did the Big East come looking for Marauette?  Who was buying and who was selling?

Lol.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 03:16:12 PM
Lol.

Perhaps, but an important question nonetheless.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: MuMark on February 16, 2017, 03:20:21 PM
The problem is more systemic than simply recruiting a big man.  The problem is what kind of a university Marquette wants to be.  Does MU want to be competitive at the highest level of college basketball?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that question. 

Did MU go looking to join the Big East or did the Big East come looking for Marquette?  Who was buying and who was selling?

Oh my God....

Ps Wojo has recruited Henry, Heldt, Froling, and John......Bailey is apparently 6'8 now.....add Sam, Cain and maybe Joey.....I think it's safe to say he can recruit size....it just didn't happen all at once.

Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: MU82 on February 16, 2017, 03:23:27 PM
It isn't like you can go down to the corner and find quality 6'10 players at Starbucks.    And I think a case can be made that you are better off in the modern game with 6'9 stretch forwards who put on a little muscle.     Having said that.    Wojo has been here 3 years.    Heldt, Henry, Froling, Eke, Theo John.      That is as many 6'10 players as Buzz got in his time at MU and almost as many as Crean landed in 9 years.

This.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: KampusFoods on February 16, 2017, 03:24:02 PM
Oh my God....

Ps Wojo has recruited Henry, Heldt, Froling, and John......Bailey is apparently 6'8 now.....add Sam, Cain and maybe Joey.....I think it's safe to say he can recruit size....it just didn't happen all at once.

WTF kind of coach is he if he can't fill every single need on the team, all at the same time? Off with his head.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
Oh my God....

Ps Wojo has recruited Henry, Heldt, Froling, and John......Bailey is apparently 6'8 now.....add Sam, Cain and maybe Joey.....I think it's safe to say he can recruit size....it just didn't happen all at once.

Pretty crazy to think about.  In two years:

Markus 5'10"
Sacar 6'5"
Haanif 6'5"
Sam 6'7"
Cain 6'7"
Brendan 6'8"
Froling 6'10"
Heldt 6'10"
Eke 6'9"
Theo 6'8"

Hopefully add a 6'8" Joey Hauser...

Am I forgetting anyone?  Either way, that is a lot of height at pretty much all positions.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: tower912 on February 16, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Gonna need some guards.   
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GGGG on February 16, 2017, 03:48:53 PM
Pretty crazy to think about.  In two years:

Markus 5'10"
Sacar 6'5"
Haanif 6'5"
Sam 6'7"
Cain 6'7"
Brendan 6'8"
Froling 6'10"
Heldt 6'10"
Eke 6'9"
Theo 6'8"

Hopefully add a 6'8" Joey Hauser...

Am I forgetting anyone?  Either way, that is a lot of height at pretty much all positions.


Hopefully Greg Elliott at 6'3"
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Earl Tatum on February 16, 2017, 04:23:20 PM
We need a stellar point guard around 6-3 and Greg Elliott.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 04:27:14 PM
Gonna need some guards.

Really just need a backup point guard.  A sniper shooting guard off the bench would be really nice, but between Sacar, Haanif, Sam, Cain, and Bailey we should have enough at the 2/3 to be okay there.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on February 16, 2017, 04:38:58 PM
Quentin Grimes would be nice.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on February 16, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
The problem is more systemic than simply recruiting a big man.  The problem is what kind of a university Marquette wants to be.  Does MU want to be competitive at the highest level of college basketball?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that question. 

Did MU go looking to join the Big East or did the Big East come looking for Marquette?  Who was buying and who was selling?
Marquette makes a huge investment in its basketball program.  I've read on Scoop that we spend either the second or fifth most in the U.S.  Yes we want a winner.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: MU82 on February 16, 2017, 05:20:20 PM
Pretty crazy to think about.  In two years:

Markus 5'10"
Sacar 6'5"
Haanif 6'5"
Sam 6'7"
Cain 6'7"
Brendan 6'8"
Froling 6'10"
Heldt 6'10"
Eke 6'9"
Theo 6'8"

Hopefully add a 6'8" Joey Hauser...

Am I forgetting anyone?  Either way, that is a lot of height at pretty much all positions.

That Henry What's-His-Name kid had a little game, too.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 05:25:27 PM
Marquette makes a huge investment in its basketball program.  I've read on Scoop that we spend either the second or fifth most in the U.S.  Yes we want a winner.

What does the amount paid have to do with winning? 
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: muguru on February 16, 2017, 05:28:20 PM
Idk, I kind of agree...for the most part all the bigs MU has coming in are either stretch 4's or little offense type guys. Okay, i get that MAY work okay with the shooting this team has and will have for the next couple of years..but damn it would be nice to finally have a guy down low that is back to the basket, dump it down in to him and it's pretty much an automatic basket. That's exactly what you need to have when the outside shooting is cold. Someone like a Daniel Ochefu, or wait for it...a Davante Gardner type.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 05:36:59 PM
Idk, I kind of agree...for the most part all the bigs MU has coming in are either stretch 4's or little offense type guys. Okay, i get that MAY work okay with the shooting this team has and will have for the next couple of years..but damn it would be nice to finally have a guy down low that is back to the basket, dump it down in to him and it's pretty much an automatic basket. That's exactly what you need to have when the outside shooting is cold. Someone like a Daniel Ochefu, or wait for it...a Davante Gardner type.

But we don't like coaches who recruit Davante types.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on February 16, 2017, 07:03:34 PM
What does the amount paid have to do with winning?

Are you a troll?
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: MuMark on February 16, 2017, 07:29:19 PM
Is there an ignore button somewhere? Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: PorkysButthole on February 16, 2017, 07:56:57 PM
Sacar will be a very pleasant surprise next year!
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 16, 2017, 09:00:15 PM
Idk, I kind of agree...for the most part all the bigs MU has coming in are either stretch 4's or little offense type guys. Okay, i get that MAY work okay with the shooting this team has and will have for the next couple of years..but damn it would be nice to finally have a guy down low that is back to the basket, dump it down in to him and it's pretty much an automatic basket. That's exactly what you need to have when the outside shooting is cold. Someone like a Daniel Ochefu, or wait for it...a Davante Gardner type.

You mean like Luke Fischer who is second in the Big East in eFG%?
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 09:07:37 PM
That Henry What's-His-Name kid had a little game, too.

Sorry, I meant that that will be our roster in 2 years from now, not that those are the heights of everyone Wojo has signed in 2 years at MU.  With the exception of Howard at the PG, we are very well above average in height at every position with that roster.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 16, 2017, 09:14:39 PM
Neither John nor Eke is 6-10.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: AZMarqfan on February 16, 2017, 09:36:20 PM
We'll get bigger.  The first thing I like is that Wojo has recruited shooters.  I was getting tired of athletic freak tweeners that can't shoot under Buzz. 
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 16, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
Neither John nor Eke is 6-10.

I've seen John listed at 6-10 before but most have him at 6-9. Eke I've seen listed as both 6-8 and 6-9. Not unreasonable to think that they both get to 6-10 or more by the time they get to Marquette....Marquette's just gonna lie about their height anyway!
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 16, 2017, 09:37:14 PM
But we don't like coaches who recruit Davante types.

Why? We love Davante types. They are more than welcome at Marquette.

Todd Mayo types on the other hand....
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: wadesworld on February 16, 2017, 09:41:21 PM
Neither John nor Eke is 6-10.

Who said they were and who cares? Yousapha Mboa was 7'1". Jae Crowder was 6'4". I'll take Jae at center any day. Charles Barkley is 6'5". Kris Jenkins is 6'5". Wes Unseld was 6'7". Draymond Green is 6'7."
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GooooMarquette on February 16, 2017, 10:34:29 PM
Pretty crazy to think about.  In two years:

Markus 5'10"
Sacar 6'5"
Haanif 6'5"
Sam 6'7"
Cain 6'7"
Brendan 6'8"
Froling 6'10"
Heldt 6'10"
Eke 6'9"
Theo 6'8"

Hopefully add a 6'8" Joey Hauser...

Am I forgetting anyone?  Either way, that is a lot of height at pretty much all positions.

Yep. Maybe we should change the thread title to "Can Wojo Recruit Smaller Men?"
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 10:41:23 PM
Are you a troll?
No, just asking a simple question, what is the point of combining the size of a recruit,  the money spent on the program, and winning.  Personally I'd take a DJO over any big man on the team or on the recruiting list.  Winning has little to do with the money spent or the height of a player. 

The comments about neck size make more sense or the size of the heart.  If we are not recruiting the likes of DJO we are not commited to winning at the heighest level, notwithstanding how much money we spend.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 17, 2017, 02:28:44 AM
I've read on Scoop that we spend either the second or fifth most in the U.S.

Stretch is right.  Abso-f'in-lutely right.  I mean, you should trust MUScoop for all your financial information.  In fact, sign over your life savings right now.  We'll take care of it for you! We're somewhere between the second best and fifth worst landing spots for your money. 

But seriously, if you want to remember us in your will, we'll somehow figure out how to deal with the tax ramifications of that.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: muguru on February 17, 2017, 03:28:56 AM
You mean like Luke Fischer who is second in the Big East in eFG%?

Luke's not terrible by any stretch, but he's not quite what i would call the "dominate" type down low either. I'm thinking more of a Brice Johnson type dominant.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Jay Bee on February 17, 2017, 07:27:31 AM
I've read on Scoop that we spend either the second or fifth most in the U.S. 

#FakeNews
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GGGG on February 17, 2017, 07:28:08 AM
No, just asking a simple question, what is the point of combining the size of a recruit,  the money spent on the program, and winning.  Personally I'd take a DJO over any big man on the team or on the recruiting list.  Winning has little to do with the money spent or the height of a player. 

The comments about neck size make more sense or the size of the heart.  If we are not recruiting the likes of DJO we are not commited to winning at the heighest level, notwithstanding how much money we spend.



Who says we aren't recruiting the likes of DJO?
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 17, 2017, 08:01:52 AM

Who says we aren't recruiting the likes of DJO?

For one person, me.  Are you on the BOT.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GGGG on February 17, 2017, 08:06:06 AM
For one person, me.  Are you on the BOT.


You are wrong.  And no I am not on the BOT.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: Newsdreams on February 17, 2017, 08:15:21 AM

You are wrong.  And no I am not on the BOT.
He has no clue
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: KampusFoods on February 17, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
This board really needs a win
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 17, 2017, 08:44:31 AM
He has no clue

Everone is welcome to their opinions, and they can be different without being wrong.
I'll mention a few characteristics of DJO:  he sweats, dives for balls, takes a charge and bleeds red.
He is athletic, transfered to get ahead, and wins, your turn.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GGGG on February 17, 2017, 08:58:40 AM
Everone is welcome to their opinions, and they can be different without being wrong.
I'll mention a few characteristics of DJO:  he sweats, dives for balls, takes a charge and bleeds red.
He is athletic, transfered to get ahead, and wins, your turn.

Outside of the transferring part, you have described many of Marquette's players.  The difference is that DJO was on better teams.

I'd give you another turn but I think I already won.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: skianth16 on February 17, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
We'll get bigger.  The first thing I like is that Wojo has recruited shooters.  I was getting tired of athletic freak tweeners that can't shoot under Buzz.

I think those are called NBA players...
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: T-Bone on February 17, 2017, 12:27:01 PM
We need Bol Bol to make everyone happy.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on February 17, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
We need Bol Bol to make everyone happy.
And Marvin Bagley
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: T-Bone on February 17, 2017, 12:48:50 PM
And Marvin Bagley

Pass.  He's only 6-10 and 190. 
We need aircraft carriers.  The Jared Lorenzen's of basketball.  Pillsbury dunk boys.
Title: Re: Can Wojo Recruit Big Men?
Post by: vogue65 on February 17, 2017, 06:08:27 PM
Outside of the transferring part, you have described many of Marquette's players.  The difference is that DJO was on better teams.

I'd give you another turn but I think I already won.

Uncle, you win,  I  have described many current players..