MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:12:08 PM

Title: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:12:08 PM
I'm sure others who watched saw Mike Kelly roll replay of Vander coming out of game and Wilson offering him a handshake/five..several times and Vander just ignored him...

If I'm Wilson, I pull Vander aside and tell him if I offer you a 5..several times and you blow me off 3 times...next time I'm gonna punch you in the mouth.  Which we all know Wilson could destroy Vander if it came to blows...

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: WarriorDoc on January 01, 2012, 02:17:44 PM
Vander is a punk.  Wonder what's going to change his entitled attitude.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: godzilla on January 01, 2012, 02:18:46 PM
I'm sure others who watched saw Mike Kelly roll replay of Vander coming out of game and Wilson offering him a handshake/five..several times and Vander just ignored him...

If I'm Wilson, I pull Vander aside and tell him if I offer you a 5..several times and you blow me off 3 times...next time I'm gonna punch you in the mouth.  Which we all know Wilson could destroy Vander if it came to blows...



Vander Blue has been a punk since he first came to MU.  And it wasn't like Blue didn't see Wilson holding his hand out, he kept it there for quite a while.  It was a total snub.  As I've written before, Blue is very hard to root/cheer for.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2012, 02:19:29 PM
this thread is embarrasing.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 01, 2012, 02:19:44 PM
bring out the trolls!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: godzilla on January 01, 2012, 02:21:02 PM
this thread is embarrasing.

Why?  Even the TV announcers noticed it and called Vander out for his behavior.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2012, 02:22:52 PM
Why?  Even the TV announcers noticed it and called Vander out for his behavior.
Seriously?  You need to have it pointed out to you?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: mu89 on January 01, 2012, 02:26:24 PM
i can understand emotions running high and being frustrated but that snub was classless.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:27:24 PM
this thread is embarrasing.

Sorry...but the teammate-ship Vander showed his teammate was embarrassing. He deserves to be called out, and I'm glad the showed that sh$t on replay.  

As Buzz says, you get what you earn....want to be a dick to a teammate....be ready to read about being a dick head.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 01, 2012, 02:28:15 PM
What happened to GTST?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:30:40 PM
this thread is embarrasing.

+100.  Something done in the heat of the moment, after he misses two FTs, and this board blows up.  Honestly, I think this thread more petulance than Vander showed.  

And Vander had a good game today too.  Not great...too many TOs and missed FTs...but solid effort.


Sorry...but the teammate-ship Vander showed his teammate was embarrassing. He deserves to be called out, and I'm glad the showed that sh$t on replay. 

As Buzz says, you get what you earn....want to be a dick to a teammate....be ready to read about being a dick head.

Don't assume that someone is, or is not, a good teammate based on whether or not he "left someone hanging."  Honestly, are you guys a bunch of middle schoolers???
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 02:31:12 PM
Blue needs to realize that if you can't put the ball in the basket, you are going to be subbed out on offense. The five star status can only buy you minutes for so long.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
Sorry...but the teammate-ship Vander showed his teammate was embarrassing. He deserves to be called out, and I'm glad the showed that sh$t on replay.  

As Buzz says, you get what you earn....want to be a dick to a teammate....be ready to read about being a dick head.
As I said, this thread is embarrasing
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:35:07 PM
Blue needs to realize that if you can't put the ball in the basket, you are going to be subbed out on offense. The five star status can only buy you minutes for so long.

He wasn't snubbed on offense.  He was pissed that he missed the FTs....
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: tower912 on January 01, 2012, 02:35:45 PM
maybe Blue was a bad teammate in that moment, but you adults are choosing to get your thongs in a bunch.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:37:22 PM
maybe Blue was a bad teammate in that moment, but you adults are choosing to get your thongs in a bunch.


Yes....  He was "in that moment."  That the camera happened to catch.  Don't make assumptions based on that.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:37:32 PM
+100.  Something done in the heat of the moment, after he misses two FTs, and this board blows up.  Honestly, I think this thread more petulance than Vander showed.  

And Vander had a good game today too.  Not great...too many TOs and missed FTs...but solid effort.


Don't assume that someone is, or is not, a good teammate based on whether or not he "left someone hanging."  Honestly, are you guys a bunch of middle schoolers???
Like I said in the other thread - Some of us just aren't as big of fans of being a dickhead as you seem to be.  And since you went all "Mike Kelly said so about Gardner's conditioning" in our previous discussion...what is your reply to Mike Kelly feeling tape need to be rolled and commented about the crappy sportsmanship/teammate-ship shown by Vander?"  Is he a middle schooler too?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:39:15 PM
I'm not a "fan of being a dickhead."

I'm also not a fan of making assumptions about people's behavior and relationships based on *one* moment caught on camera.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 02:39:49 PM
+100.  Something done in the heat of the moment, after he misses two FTs, and this board blows up.  Honestly, I think this thread more petulance than Vander showed.  

And Vander had a good game today too.  Not great...too many TOs and missed FTs...but solid effort.


Don't assume that someone is, or is not, a good teammate based on whether or not he "left someone hanging."  Honestly, are you guys a bunch of middle schoolers???

Ha. This again? Sorry dude. If you are a complete non-factor on offense and mistake prone, you are not having a good game. He should have had more TOs. The dude continually breaks the cardinal rule of do not leave you feet unless you know what you are going to do with the ball.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
Ha. This again? Sorry dude. If you are a complete non-factor on offense and mistake prone, you are not having a good game. He should have had more TOs. The dude continually breaks the cardinal rule of do not leave you feet unless you know what you are going to do with the ball.


Ha.  This again!!  Ignoring someone's defense

7 pts, 7 rebs, 4 assts, 3 TOs. 

Solid game.  Too many turnovers.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:43:08 PM
I'm not a "fan of being a dickhead."

I'm also not a fan of making assumptions about people's behavior and relationships based on *one* moment caught on camera.

Well...most people who aren't dickheads tend to think leaving a teammate hanging for a five is kind of a dick move.  And btw...did you see who was team leader in steals??  Gardner.  That's right.  Gardner and his crappy defense and conditioning. You take up for Vander all the time and critique Gardner..yet Gardner goes for 13 and 10 on 66% shooting..and Vander has NO steals, 3 turnovers and 7 points on 40% shooting.. EDIT (Not to mention 3 of 8 from the line)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: jeffreyweee on January 01, 2012, 02:46:45 PM
This is such a joke. When will people grow up? Could there possibly be anything more meaningless that we can nitpick about? This group is one of the closest I've ever seen at Marquette and Vander and Derrick were joking and "slapping of fives" after the game. Vander was unhappy with the run Nova went on to get back in the game, he came back in and had a huge block and besides one drive played great defense.

Also, who in the hell says "slap of five"? Are you 100 years old and still picking fights with 19 year old's??
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:47:22 PM
Well...most people who aren't dickheads tend to think leaving a teammate hanging for a five is kind of a dick move.  And btw...did you see who was team leader in steals??  Gardner.  That's right.  Gardner and his crappy defense and conditioning. You take up for Vander all the time and critique Gardner..yet Gardner goes for 13 and 10 on 66% shooting..and Vander has NO steals, 3 turnovers and 7 points on 40% shooting..


Steals are not a great way of determining someone's defensive contribution.  Davante had all of those in the first half.  He picked up his last foul by reaching in terribly...trying to pick up another steal.  The fact is his last three fouls were due to being out of position.  He was tired.  And he should have been.  He played a very good game.  Voted him SOTG in the other thread.

And by the way, I never once said that Gardner's defense was "crappy,"  just that he got tired.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:48:13 PM
This is such a joke. When will people grow up? Could there possibly be anything more meaningless that we can nitpick about? This group is one of the closest I've ever seen at Marquette and Vander and Derrick were joking and "slapping of fives" after the game. Vander was unhappy with the run Nova went on to get back in the game, he came back in and had a huge block and besides one drive played great defense.


Well said.  That's right...the block was after this "incident" too.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 01, 2012, 02:49:29 PM
OMG! Did yóu guys also see when DG got the bucket while fouled and didn't slap hands with Wilson and Mayo because he was too busy saying "sheesh"?

No. You didn't because it was DG, not VB.

Seriously, you need to quit posting like a cute one and get over your man hate on VB.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 02:51:36 PM

Ha.  This again!!  Ignoring someone's defense

7 pts, 7 rebs, 4 assts, 3 TOs. 

Solid game.  Too many turnovers.

And Marquette shot really well from the free throw line, but we missed too many.

Not sure how you have solid game with too many turnovers. Maybe if your name is Vander Blue. 0 steals, 1 block, 3 for 8 from the line. Honestly, take the golden eagle googles off for a second.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2012, 02:53:37 PM
OMG! Did yóu guys also see when DG got the bucket while fouled and didn't slap hands with Wilson and Mayo because he was too busy saying "sheesh"?

No. You didn't because it was DG, not VB.

Seriously, you need to quit posting like a cute one and get over your man hate on VB.
Two things:

1) how did you do this

2) I think he was screaming "and 1", not saying sheesh
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 02:57:03 PM
OMG! Did yóu guys also see when DG got the bucket while fouled and didn't slap hands with Wilson and Mayo because he was too busy saying "sheesh"?

No. You didn't because it was DG, not VB.

Seriously, you need to quit posting like a cute one and get over your man hate on VB.

Was this directed at me??  1) WTF is a "cute one?"  2) WTF is "man hate?" 3) I'm known by some here as being a fanboy and Mr. Rose colored MU Glasses.  I start a thread criticizing a player and now ironically some of you who have called me fanboy, rose colored glass, now call me out for starting a negative thread pertaining to something MU basketball?  Wow.  The irony.  And man hate? (Proper usage marqptm?)  

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 02:58:27 PM
And Marquette shot really well from the free throw line, but we missed too many.

Not sure how you have solid game with too many turnovers. Maybe if your name is Vander Blue. 0 steals, 1 block, 3 for 8 from the line. Honestly, take the golden eagle googles off for a second.


You have a solid...but not a great game...with the turnovers and FT misses.  In the end, he had only one more TO than DJO, Ox and Jamil -the three SOTG candidates in the other thread.  Second in assists (4) and rebounds (7) and he played very good defense.  Solid game.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 03:02:44 PM

You have a solid...but not a great game...with the turnovers and FT misses.  In the end, he had only one more TO than DJO, Ox and Jamil -the three SOTG candidates in the other thread.  Second in assists (4) and rebounds (7) and he played very good defense.  Solid game.

The continued argument of Vander and his very good defense gets old...I'd like to see some results from his very good defense - like some steals on occasion.  Did you like the matador defense along the baseline with 28 seconds when he let Pinkston just blow by him on the baseline for a vicious slam while the game was still in question? 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Jacks DC on January 01, 2012, 03:04:14 PM
Not a big deal that he dissed Wilson but I think the more important point is that Vander had some bad body language at an important point in the game and that is contagious.  Vander is still a bit immature and tends to pout sometimes.  However, he did make some solid contributions today unlike the past few games.  Would be nice if he could knock down a few more FTs.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 03:06:05 PM
The continued argument of Vander and his very good defense gets old...I'd like to see some results from his very good defense - like some steals on occasion.  


Vander leads the team in steals.

Look, he is MU's best on-ball defender.  If you can't see that, well, I don't know what to say.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 01, 2012, 03:07:03 PM
This thread is hilarious
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 01, 2012, 03:07:43 PM
I also heard that Vander's not good at responding to texts in a timely manner. Buzz should cut him!

Vander was PO'd at himself and wouldn't smack his teammate's hand. So what? He and Wilson had forgotten all about it 5 minutes later when they were celebrating the win. Perhaps the grown men on this board should follow suit.

As for Brian Kelley, Blue committed to Kelley's school and then changed his mind and went to a rival. Clearly, he's unbiased  ::)

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 01, 2012, 03:07:52 PM
OMG! Did yóu guys also see when DG got the bucket while fouled and didn't slap hands with Wilson and Mayo because he was too busy saying "sheesh"?

No. You didn't because it was DG, not VB.

Seriously, you need to quit posting like a cute one and get over your man hate on VB.

+10000000000000

I think this is the year's winner for "grown men acting like middle-schoolers" thread of the year. And it's only January 1st!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 01, 2012, 03:09:48 PM
The continued argument of Vander and his very good defense gets old...I'd like to see some results from his very good defense - like some steals on occasion.  Did you like the matador defense along the baseline with 28 seconds when he let Pinkston just blow by him on the baseline for a vicious slam while the game was still in question? 

Personally, I think Vander should have reached in so that Nova could have scored points with the clock stopped. Seriously?!?!

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 01, 2012, 03:10:20 PM
So what if he didn't 5 Wilson.  I'm sure Buzz won't let that go long, and I'm sure nothing more needs to be said.  He is a competitor, and was upset at the situation.  Grow up.

Vander haters need to look at logic and data.  He plays a valuable role on this team.  Defense, rebounds, assists.  You only need 2-3 scorers on a team.  I compare Vander to Corey Brewer.  Never close to the leading scorer, but has parlayed a good all around game into a good NBA career.

Vander needs to keep developing, but so did Brewer as a sophomore.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 01, 2012, 03:12:32 PM
Was this directed at me??  1) WTF is a "cute one?"  2) WTF is "man hate?" 3) I'm known by some here as being a fanboy and Mr. Rose colored MU Glasses.  I start a thread criticizing a player and now ironically some of you who have called me fanboy, rose colored glass, now call me out for starting a negative thread pertaining to something MU basketball?  Wow.  The irony.  And man hate? (Proper usage marqptm?)  



Not saying you're not a Warrior fan.  Saying you're a Vander hater who doesn't look at the data.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 01, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Personally, I think Vander should have reached in so that Nova could have scored points with the clock stopped. Seriously?!?!
this made me laugh...good one.  
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 01, 2012, 03:16:10 PM
Personally, I think Vander should have reached in so that Nova could have scored points with the clock stopped. Seriously?!?!

Exactly.  At that point, contesting and getting a foul called - as DJO, Gardner, Crowder ... had done - would have been foolish.

As for this thread, what an embarrassing thread.  So Vander didn't high 5 Wilson.  Big freaking deal.  He just missed two FT's.  If he came out with a smile and high fiving everyone on the bench, there would have been a thread blasting him for not taking it seriously.  People really look for any reason to b!tch and complain about Vander.  
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 03:17:44 PM

You have a solid...but not a great game...with the turnovers and FT misses.  In the end, he had only one more TO than DJO, Ox and Jamil -the three SOTG candidates in the other thread.  Second in assists (4) and rebounds (7) and he played very good defense.  Solid game.

You can't play both sides here. You can't claim that stats are not indicative of good defense, etc and then pull out some stats to try and prove he had a good game. He played ok on defense today. But he is really bad on offense.

About 60-70% of the time, his drives result in TOs or a poor kick out that throws a wrench in the offense. He looks like a clown on offense some times. One time he drove and the ref called a iffy blocking call and instead of going up strong, he did this wacky underhand circus shot with his right hand which hit the underside of the rim. And he again was rejected nasty in two handed fashion which is a complete momentum shifter and essentially a TO.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 03:18:52 PM

Vander leads the team in steals.

Look, he is MU's best on-ball defender.  If you can't see that, well, I don't know what to say.

And as you've said many times here - DJO and Cadougan are not good on ball defenders.  The competition isn't exactly fierce for the title of MU's best on-ball defender - though Derrick Wilson in my opinion is as good as Vander, though not as versatile.

Is Vander a good defender - yes -  but the continued pointing to his defense over and over to excuse his offensive shortcomings is somewhat old.  Vander has improved A LOT over last year, no doubt..and has a lot of talent..but don't think we need to grasp at straws to defend him when he turns in some stinker gams.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 01, 2012, 03:19:37 PM
You can't play both sides here. You can't claim that stats are not indicative of good defense, etc and then pull out some stats to try and prove he had a good game. He played ok on defense today. But he is really bad on offense.

About 60-70% of the time, his drives result in TOs or a poor kick out that throws a wrench in the offense. He looks like a clown on offense some times. One time he drove and the ref called a iffy blocking call and instead of going up strong, he did this wacky underhand circus shot with his right hand which hit the underside of the rim. And he again was rejected nasty in two handed fashion which is a complete momentum shifter and essentially a TO.

But you can make up stats and facts?   ::)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 03:19:52 PM
Personally, I think Vander should have reached in so that Nova could have scored points with the clock stopped. Seriously?!?!



Wouldn't our best on the ball defender stay in front of him?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Ari Gold on January 01, 2012, 03:22:57 PM
We're all of 15 hours into the new year and we've got an odds on favorite for the stupidest most juvenile thread of the year
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 01, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
Wouldn't our best on the ball defender stay in front of him?

When you're up 7 with under :30 to play, it's more important to avoid fouling at that point. Give them 2, keep the clock running and get the ball back. It's Basketball 101.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 01, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
Was this directed at me??  1) WTF is a "cute one?"  2) WTF is "man hate?" 3) I'm known by some here as being a fanboy and Mr. Rose colored MU Glasses.  I start a thread criticizing a player and now ironically some of you who have called me fanboy, rose colored glass, now call me out for starting a negative thread pertaining to something MU basketball?  Wow.  The irony.  And man hate? (Proper usage marqptm?)  



Never said you and ErickJD08 are not Warrior fans.  You hate Vander, no matter how well he plays his role on this team, or how good his overall stat line is.  Does he need to be better than 3-8 from the line.  Hell yeah, but that does not detract from his overall value.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 03:25:22 PM
And as you've said many times here - DJO and Cadougan are not good on ball defenders.  The competition isn't exactly fierce for the title of MU's best on-ball defender - though Derrick Wilson in my opinion is as good as Vander, though not as versatile.

Is Vander a good defender - yes -  but the continued pointing to his defense over and over to excuse his offensive shortcomings is somewhat old.  Vander has improved A LOT over last year, no doubt..and has a lot of talent..but don't think we need to grasp at straws to defend him when he turns in some stinker gams.


I said that he had poor game v. UWM and Vandy.  I said that he had a "solid" game today.  I'm not making excuses for anything.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on January 01, 2012, 03:25:53 PM
this is such a stupid thread.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 03:30:08 PM
But you can make up stats and facts?   ::)

I counted. It's about that.

Box scores tell so little about a performance. But you guys continue to use them. How about this? Against Wis, UW, LSU, Vandy,and Nova, that is 4 steals in 5 games against solid major conference competition. Great defense.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 01, 2012, 03:32:18 PM
I counted. It's about that.

Box scores tell so little about a performance. But you guys continue to use them. How about this? Against Wis, UW, LSU, Vandy,and Nova, that is 4 steals in 5 games against solid major conference competition. Great defense.
Give it up.  You counted and it's an approximate range?  Strange dude you are.  Your hatred for Vander really is telling.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 01, 2012, 03:35:49 PM
Give it up.  You counted and it's an approximate range?  Strange dude you are.  Your hatred for Vander really is telling.

He's got a bad case with the evidence against him.  What else can he do?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 01, 2012, 03:41:04 PM
Personally, I think Vander should have reached in so that Nova could have scored points with the clock stopped. Seriously?!?!


A little resistance would have been nice...you don't just give a guy a free pass to the baseline and slam with 28 seconds left in a 4 point game.  Go back and watch the replay...Van got burned hard by Pinkston..it was not a case of Vander not wanting to foul...got blown by with a head/shoulder fake and then a cross over to baseline...

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 03:42:07 PM
Never said you and ErickJD08 are not Warrior fans.  You hate Vander, no matter how well he plays his role on this team, or how good his overall stat line is.  Does he need to be better than 3-8 from the line.  Hell yeah, but that does not detract from his overall value.

I don't hate the kid. I give credit where credit is due. People need to take the blinders off. His role isnt to miss lay ups. If his role is to strictly play defense, he needs to stop driving. But that clearly isn't his role. It is frustrating to deal with blind fan bases. As a Bears fan, I remember the days of Orton and people claiming he had a great game with 180 yards passing, 0TDs and 1INT.

Blue did not have a solid stat line today. You can't have those TOs, low percentages, and no defensive stats and no double digit category and be considered a solid stat line. More importantly, when you watch him play, he continues to make the same mistakes game in and game out. That is the truth.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 01, 2012, 03:49:22 PM
Was this directed at me??  1) WTF is a "cute one?"  2) WTF is "man hate?" 3) I'm known by some here as being a fanboy and Mr. Rose colored MU Glasses.  I start a thread criticizing a player and now ironically some of you who have called me fanboy, rose colored glass, now call me out for starting a negative thread pertaining to something MU basketball?  Wow.  The irony.  And man hate? (Proper usage marqptm?)  



I blame the Scoop censors for changing my words.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 01, 2012, 03:51:45 PM

I think this is the year's winner for "grown men acting like middle-schoolers" thread of the year. And it's only January 1st!

YES SIR
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MuMark on January 01, 2012, 04:01:12 PM
Dumbest thread ever.............. ::)

Offering to high 5 somebody who just messed up(and knows it) is usually not a good idea in sports.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 01, 2012, 04:08:04 PM
SHEESH!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 01, 2012, 04:09:50 PM
SHEESH!

Someone needs to make SHEESH Davante shirts.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 01, 2012, 04:11:46 PM
Someone needs to make SHEESH Savants shirts.

Big SHEESH
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: CTWarrior on January 01, 2012, 04:13:21 PM
I'm sure others who watched saw Mike Kelly roll replay of Vander coming out of game and Wilson offering him a handshake/five..several times and Vander just ignored him...

If I'm Wilson, I pull Vander aside and tell him if I offer you a 5..several times and you blow me off 3 times...next time I'm gonna punch you in the mouth.  Which we all know Wilson could destroy Vander if it came to blows...



FWIW, my high school-aged son noticed him leaving Juan Anderson hanging early in the second half (even rewound to show me) the exact same way after making a positive play. Personally,  I worry more about his turnovers than his high-fiving.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 01, 2012, 04:15:27 PM
Big SHEESH

If I get a new Macbook and pirate Photoshop this will be priority numbero uno.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: CTWarrior on January 01, 2012, 04:23:14 PM

Ha.  This again!!  Ignoring someone's defense

7 pts, 7 rebs, 4 assts, 3 TOs. 

Solid game.  Too many turnovers.

Weird thing about Blue, he always seems to have less TOs in the box score than I would have thought watching the game.  Sometime he gets the ball knocked away when he going up for a shot and I wonder if they just count that as a missed shot/blocked shot rather than a TO/Steal.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: avid1010 on January 01, 2012, 04:47:30 PM
were best off when we can play vander, mayo and djo at the same time.  i thought junior was in for a good year, and he hasn't done squat.

d-wilson had 3 fouls in 6 minutes of play.  i think a lot of casual fans heard buzz say he was a good defender, and he appears to hustle when he's in the game, so people like him.  he constantly gets beat off the dribble and giving 3 fouls away today was a bad choice against a nova team that was struggling to score.

we'll be better off if vander can learn to play the point.  while he turns it over too often, he does create for his teamates.  if he can figure out how to do so without turning the ball over, he's our best bet at pg for the next 2.5 yrs...
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: wadesworld on January 01, 2012, 04:49:03 PM
I don't hate the kid. I give credit where credit is due. People need to take the blinders off. His role isnt to miss lay ups. If his role is to strictly play defense, he needs to stop driving. But that clearly isn't his role. It is frustrating to deal with blind fan bases. As a Bears fan, I remember the days of Orton and people claiming he had a great game with 180 yards passing, 0TDs and 1INT.

Blue did not have a solid stat line today. You can't have those TOs, low percentages, and no defensive stats and no double digit category and be considered a solid stat line. More importantly, when you watch him play, he continues to make the same mistakes game in and game out. That is the truth.

Your posts get more and more foolish each time.  Personally I would much rather have 0 steals and shut down a team's best guard than have 10 steals and the other team's best player go for 30.  Maybe that's just me though.  He helped to hold Dominic Cheek to 6 points and 2 rebounds on 2-10 shooting today.  AFTER today's came Cheek was averaging just over 12 points and 5 rebounds per game.  Meaning he was probably above 13 points per game going into today's game.  He cut his production into less than half of what he typically gives Villinova.  Give me that and 0 steals for Vander over 30 points and 10 rebounds for Cheek and 10 steals for Vander.

To whoever said "would your best defender get blown by on the dribble" or whatever (too lazy to go back and see who it was/the exact wording), really?  Lock down defenders never get beat off the dribble?  So no player should ever score on a team's best defender?  Did Bruce Bowen ever give up a basket?  Get beat off the dribble?  Well, he must not be a good defender/wasn't the Spurs best defender then.  As far as the bolded part...yes, let's just never have Vander step onto our offensive half of the court.  His role on this team is a defensive player.  No need to ever have him touch the ball on offense.  Come on kid.  You can do better.

Blue had a very solid stat line today.  Points, shooting percentage, and steals are not the only stats that are important.  Of course you can take a certain number of stats and just ignore the rest and make a guy look bad.  You could do that with anyone.  He could've shot 10-12 from the field, 9-10 from the line, had 40 points, 15 steals, and 0 rebounds and 0 assists and you would complain about how awful of a game he had because he had no rebounds or assists.  It's embarrassing what you're doing.

What do you have to say about his 7 rebounds as a guard?  His shutting down Cheek?  Nothing?  Just forget he did that stuff?  OK guys, forget anything good Vander does.  Then YEAH VANDER STINKS!  We can do that with anybody.  Forget that DJO scores a lot and hits a bunch of 3 guys...GOSH DJO is awful!  Why is he even on the defensive side of the court, that's not his role.

Come on kid.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 01, 2012, 04:55:41 PM
were best off when we can play vander, mayo and djo at the same time.  i thought junior was in for a good year, and he hasn't done squat.

d-wilson had 3 fouls in 6 minutes of play.  i think a lot of casual fans heard buzz say he was a good defender, and he appears to hustle when he's in the game, so people like him.  he constantly gets beat off the dribble and giving 3 fouls away today was a bad choice against a nova team that was struggling to score.

we'll be better off if vander can learn to play the point.  while he turns it over too often, he does create for his teamates.  if he can figure out how to do so without turning the ball over, he's our best bet at pg for the next 2.5 yrs...


I think Wilson has been living off his performance against Jordan Taylor.  I think he is a fine defender, but not the defender that some people here are suggesting.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: jutaw22mu on January 01, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
This thread has gotten ridiculous.  Vander is a competitor and was busy being upset at himself for missing some free throws.  No big deal.  When I used to be a goalkeeper I sure as hell wouldn't have slapped anyones hands after conceding a corner kick with the game still in question, even if I made a sweet save to do it.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 01, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
(http://img2.purerave.com/5/26/5500226_.jpg)

Buzz post-game said that he is implementing High Five drills for every practice.  He did a stat deep dive and found that by keeping elbows straight and in form, FT shooting percentages improve as well.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: mu89 on January 01, 2012, 05:06:58 PM
This thread has gotten ridiculous.  Vander is a competitor and was busy being upset at himself for missing some free throws.  No big deal.  When I used to be a goalkeeper I sure as hell wouldn't have slapped anyones hands after conceding a corner kick with the game still in question, even if I made a sweet save to do it.

apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: real chili 83 on January 01, 2012, 05:12:48 PM
It didn't help that the announcers called Blue out for this incident.  Keep in mind, Mike Kelley, the announcer, is a Madison grad.  I admit, I was questioning his behavior.  Sultan had it right in the game thread...it was no big deal.

In hind sight, he was probably pissed he missed his free throws.  If that's the case, he gets credit for understanding the significance missing those shots.

I, for one, was getting a little bit uncomfortable at that point in the game....with the memory of the Vandy game still lingering.  

Having a whole thread for this topic is overkill.  I thought it was discussed enough in the game thread....ad nauseum (sp?).

Bottom line...Happy New Year and congrats on opening up the 2012 BE season with a win.

Let's go beat piss out of Gtown on Wednesday!

Go Warriors!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MattyWarrior on January 01, 2012, 05:14:38 PM
Nothing to this!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Pakuni on January 01, 2012, 05:46:32 PM
My four-year-old left me hanging today after I scored a goal in basement floor hockey.
 The little f@%& has always been a punk and lousy teammate.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on January 01, 2012, 05:52:27 PM
The complaint about lack of steals is hilarious. The announcers pointed out how Cheek gets a lot of steals but also get burned all the time going for them. Like when he blew by Junior who got the ball from Jamil, drove and kicked to DJO for 3.

I didnt see Vander cause that today for Nova.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 01, 2012, 05:57:25 PM
Your posts get more and more foolish each time.  Personally I would much rather have 0 steals and shut down a team's best guard than have 10 steals and the other team's best player go for 30.  Maybe that's just me though.  He helped to hold Dominic Cheek to 6 points and 2 rebounds on 2-10 shooting today.  AFTER today's came Cheek was averaging just over 12 points and 5 rebounds per game.  Meaning he was probably above 13 points per game going into today's game.  He cut his production into less than half of what he typically gives Villinova.  Give me that and 0 steals for Vander over 30 points and 10 rebounds for Cheek and 10 steals for Vander.

To whoever said "would your best defender get blown by on the dribble" or whatever (too lazy to go back and see who it was/the exact wording), really?  Lock down defenders never get beat off the dribble?  So no player should ever score on a team's best defender?  Did Bruce Bowen ever give up a basket?  Get beat off the dribble?  Well, he must not be a good defender/wasn't the Spurs best defender then.  As far as the bolded part...yes, let's just never have Vander step onto our offensive half of the court.  His role on this team is a defensive player.  No need to ever have him touch the ball on offense.  Come on kid.  You can do better.

Blue had a very solid stat line today.  Points, shooting percentage, and steals are not the only stats that are important.  Of course you can take a certain number of stats and just ignore the rest and make a guy look bad.  You could do that with anyone.  He could've shot 10-12 from the field, 9-10 from the line, had 40 points, 15 steals, and 0 rebounds and 0 assists and you would complain about how awful of a game he had because he had no rebounds or assists.  It's embarrassing what you're doing.

What do you have to say about his 7 rebounds as a guard?  His shutting down Cheek?  Nothing?  Just forget he did that stuff?  OK guys, forget anything good Vander does.  Then YEAH VANDER STINKS!  We can do that with anybody.  Forget that DJO scores a lot and hits a bunch of 3 guys...GOSH DJO is awful!  Why is he even on the defensive side of the court, that's not his role.

Come on kid.

Kid?
Get real. You mention a stat line that would read 40 point 12 steals and 0 rebounds and assists. Read my post. I said that if you have poor shooting, no steals, turnovers, and no double figure stats, that is not a good stat line. How is that ridiculous?

And what game were you watching? Blue did not shut cheek down. Cheek shut cheek down. He put himself on the bench with fouls. He only played 20 minutes.

You really don't read my posts. My posts always talk about Blue being a solid defender and a great athlete. But he is really really bad on offense. Think about this. I would say that JC is better on offense than Blue. I remember JC came in off of injury his freshmen year and was terrible on offense. Then sophomore year it was very clear that he was improving week to week as he got more minutes. I think JC is a solid PG and the offense runs pretty well when he is in the game. Now look at Blue. He played ALL of last season and if anything, he was regressing as the season progressed. And now this season, he has the same bad habits. And it seems like he is regressing again.

I agree with posters that say something like "If you can't see that Blue is a good defender, I can't do anything for you." With that said, if you can't see that bad things happen when the ball is in his hands more often than not, I can't do anything for you. With the ball in his hands, we see TOs, blown lay ups, blocked shots, and kick outs that force the offense to reset. And these things we see are not limited to today's game. It happens every game since he has worn a MU uni. I know what progress looks like. We all saw it with JC. The progress we are seeing with Blue is very marginal at this point. I just hope something just clicks with him and he turns his offensive game around.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: avid1010 on January 01, 2012, 05:59:07 PM

I think Wilson has been living off his performance against Jordan Taylor.  I think he is a fine defender, but not the defender that some people here are suggesting.

3 fouls in 6 minutes really hurts the team...nova played too much of the game in the bonus, which puts a great deal of stress on the other players to not foul.  he also gets beat of the dribble often, which is something many mu players have happen to them, but vander has that problem much less than anyone on the team.  i really don't see an upside to d-wilson.  hope i'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like he'll ever be able to contribute on the offensive end.  
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: avid1010 on January 01, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
With the ball in his hands, we see TOs, blown lay ups, blocked shots, and kick outs that force the offense to reset.

We also saw him create and put pressure on the defense.  He and Junior are asked to do very different things on offense, and the offense ran very well when Vander, Mayo, and DJO were the three guards in the game.  My guess is Buzz hates to move Vander to the point because his rebounding ability is so valuable (especially with CO out) that Buzz doesn't want him to have to be back on defense or on the perimeter, but coming from someone who thought Junior would have a breakout year, he's not doing much to help this team.  His defense is average at best, and I don't see him creating for others in the half-court. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUCam on January 01, 2012, 06:08:56 PM
This thread is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. Its not a great showing by Wander and an even worse showing by whoever started the thread.

Sometimes the word "stupid" just fits.

EDIT: "Wander" Blue. Ha. Love auto-correct.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 01, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
GROW UP, TROLLS. THIS THREAD DEMEANS US ALL.

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 01, 2012, 08:27:48 PM
I thought Vander played a pretty solid game today
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Doris Burkes Thong on January 01, 2012, 08:58:28 PM
I'm convinced under Tom Crean's tutelage that Vander would be averaging 20 ppg and a lottery pick in this year's NBA draft. Tom Crean is a master in player development and sports psychology.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 01, 2012, 09:05:06 PM
Jamail Jones high fives everybody.

Too bad he's not good at basketball.


Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: VegasWarrior77 on January 02, 2012, 12:43:32 AM
I think Mike Kelley brought it up because he's still ticked VB ended up at MU!  If you'll notice Wilson tapped VB on the shoulder at the end of the clip.  I don't really think it's a big deal.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: wadesworld on January 02, 2012, 12:51:20 AM
Jamail Jones high fives everybody.

Too bad he's not good at basketball.




I wish I was not good enough at basketball to be playing in the Big East on scholarship.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 02, 2012, 12:55:16 AM
I wish I was not good enough at basketball to be playing in the Big East on scholarship.

You're right.

My intent was to illustrate Vander seems to be a whipping boy for some, while Jamail seems to get a free pass.

Jamail didn't even play a minute, and Vander is the one who is getting ripped on for failing to high five.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: wadesworld on January 02, 2012, 01:47:28 AM
You're right.

My intent was to illustrate Vander seems to be a whipping boy for some, while Jamail seems to get a free pass.

Jamail didn't even play a minute, and Vander is the one who is getting ripped on for failing to high five.

I do agree with this.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: marqfan22 on January 02, 2012, 09:36:15 AM
When did the the hi-five incident happen? I want to go back and see it.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 02, 2012, 09:43:30 AM
Late second half....after he missed two FTs.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 02, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Late second half....after he missed two FTs.
He was taken out on Crowder's 4th foul at the 2:15 mark.  They showed it at the 1:37 mark.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 02, 2012, 11:39:38 AM
You're right.

My intent was to illustrate Vander seems to be a whipping boy for some, while Jamail seems to get a free pass.

Jamail didn't even play a minute, and Vander is the one who is getting ripped on for failing to high five.

You get a free pass when you get very little PT. if you get the PT and show no progress, then we can say he is not progressing. There is nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 02, 2012, 12:07:20 PM
You get a free pass when you get very little PT. if you get the PT and show no progress, then we can say he is not progressing. There is nothing wrong with that.

In some cases, I would agree. I still like Jamail's potential.

However, when you consistently complain/rip a single soph., yet have no commentary on guys who are the same age and can't even find the court, it appears like a witch hunt.

Put it another way: Jamil Wilson has not met expectations, but you don't have 25 posts about him air-balling 3's. He's a year older than Vander and has spent the same amount of time in the MU program.

YET... people say nothing.

For whatever reason, Vander has become the whipping boy for some people, and I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MarquetteDano on January 02, 2012, 12:17:41 PM
For whatever reason, Vander has become the whipping boy for some people, and I just don't get it.

First, I am not saying it is right.  However, Vander is the whipping boy because he is perceived to have a bad attitude.  I am not saying he does.  But he does tend to have a mopey look on his face at times.

You add that in with the announcers concentrating on his ignoring a high five, some off the court incidents last year, and the high expectations coming out of high school...

And Voila! You have your team whipping boy.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Ari Gold on January 02, 2012, 12:49:08 PM
First, I am not saying it is right.  However, Vander is the whipping boy because he is perceived to have a bad attitude.  I am not saying he does.  But he does tend to have a mopey look on his face at times.

You add that in with the announcers concentrating on his ignoring a high five, some off the court incidents last year, and the high expectations coming out of high school...

And Voila! You have your team whipping boy.

Vander reminds me a lot of Dom James. A great talent with A lot of detractors for some on and off the court reasons
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 02, 2012, 12:52:11 PM
First, I am not saying it is right.  However, Vander is the whipping boy because he is perceived to have a bad attitude.  I am not saying he does.  But he does tend to have a mopey look on his face at times.

You add that in with the announcers concentrating on his ignoring a high five, some off the court incidents last year, and the high expectations coming out of high school...

And Voila! You have your team whipping boy.

You are probably right, and that just proves to me that the average fan is an idiot.

The players spend a TON of time together. To pretend like we can see/know if a guy is a good teammate or has a good attitude from the 3-4 hours per week that we watch him on the court is insane.

For whatever reason, some people just don't like Vander, and they are going to find things every week that they don't like about him.

Has anybody even mentioned the 1 handed defensive rebound Vander had in the second half when the game was getting tight? Nope. How about the block?

High fives? Oh yea, we got that covered.

unnatural carnal knowledgeing insane.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 02, 2012, 01:40:04 PM
In some cases, I would agree. I still like Jamail's potential.

However, when you consistently complain/rip a single soph., yet have no commentary on guys who are the same age and can't even find the court, it appears like a witch hunt.

Put it another way: Jamil Wilson has not met expectations, but you don't have 25 posts about him air-balling 3's. He's a year older than Vander and has spent the same amount of time in the MU program.

YET... people say nothing.

For whatever reason, Vander has become the whipping boy for some people, and I just don't get it.

It really isn't all that complicated. I don't care about the high five thing as much. My problem is Blue continues to make the same mistakes. If Jones was on the floor and he continually made terrible decisions with the ball, people would be jumping on him too. As for Wilson, I am a little disappointed simply from the preseason reports and reports from last season. But when you think about it, he really hasnt had a ton of live action. And from his limited time on the floor, I see him making improvements.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 02, 2012, 01:51:21 PM
Vander reminds me a lot of Dom James. A great talent with A lot of detractors for some on and off the court reasons


it's the mustache.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: mviale on January 02, 2012, 01:53:37 PM
Yall need to go back to work
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 02, 2012, 01:56:41 PM
It really isn't all that complicated. I don't care about the high five thing as much. My problem is Blue continues to make the same mistakes. If Jones was on the floor and he continually made terrible decisions with the ball, people would be jumping on him too. As for Wilson, I am a little disappointed simply from the preseason reports and reports from last season. But when you think about it, he really hasnt had a ton of live action. And from his limited time on the floor, I see him making improvements.

I'm sorry, but this just reads to me like:

"I like Jamil. I don't like Vander."

I guess at this point we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think there are some people that already have their mind made up that they don't like him, so they find faults in his game to support that point of view.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 02, 2012, 09:56:09 PM
Simply put, many fans don't like Vander because he's making them look bad.

When Vander dissed Wisco and came to Marquette, many fans touted him as Wade 2.0 (or should I say Wade 3.0 since Dameon Mason was annointed Wade 2.0?). He's a 6'4", athletic, all-around stud and he was coming to our school to follow in Wade's footsteps. MU fans mocked Badger fans because one of the most highly ranked in-state recruits in recent memory didn't want to stay in Madison. He wanted to be a Warrior. Currently, Blue is a valuable role player at Marquette and many MU fans are ready to label him a complete bust because, 1.5 seasons into his career, he hasn't been the All-American they were unfairly expecting him to be. In other words, Blue is making them look bad because they had talked him up and had built him up to an impossible-to-attain level and he's not even close to reaching that level so they're taking it out on him. If Vander was a 4-star recruit from Texas, you'd barely hear a whisper about his offensive struggles. Jamail Jones, for example, was ranked just outside the top 50 as a recruit and he can't even get on the floor consistently yet you don't constantly see threads popping up ripping his game or his high-fiving prowess.

Dominic James was a similar situation to Blue. He was a freshman stud and appeared to be on his way to the NBA Lottery. Unfortunately, he peaked as a freshman and many fans never "forgave" him for that. He was going to be the next big thing at MU and instead ended up with a disappointing career, finishing 2nd in school history in assists and 3rd in scoring.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 03, 2012, 07:39:41 AM
Simply put, many fans don't like Vander because he's making them look bad.

When Vander dissed Wisco and came to Marquette, many fans touted him as Wade 2.0 (or should I say Wade 3.0 since Dameon Mason was annointed Wade 2.0?). He's a 6'4", athletic, all-around stud and he was coming to our school to follow in Wade's footsteps. MU fans mocked Badger fans because one of the most highly ranked in-state recruits in recent memory didn't want to stay in Madison. He wanted to be a Warrior. Currently, Blue is a valuable role player at Marquette and many MU fans are ready to label him a complete bust because, 1.5 seasons into his career, he hasn't been the All-American they were unfairly expecting him to be. In other words, Blue is making them look bad because they had talked him up and had built him up to an impossible-to-attain level and he's not even close to reaching that level so they're taking it out on him. If Vander was a 4-star recruit from Texas, you'd barely hear a whisper about his offensive struggles. Jamail Jones, for example, was ranked just outside the top 50 as a recruit and he can't even get on the floor consistently yet you don't constantly see threads popping up ripping his game or his high-fiving prowess.

Dominic James was a similar situation to Blue. He was a freshman stud and appeared to be on his way to the NBA Lottery. Unfortunately, he peaked as a freshman and many fans never "forgave" him for that. He was going to be the next big thing at MU and instead ended up with a disappointing career, finishing 2nd in school history in assists and 3rd in scoring.

Well stated.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 03, 2012, 09:18:09 AM
You are dead on, Stache. Some of us tried to temper expectations after Vander's lackluster senior year at Memorial, but the idea of the next DWade, especially one from Madison who decommitted from UW, was too irresistable for many. He's a very young sophmore who's starting and contributing on a top 20 team, but that's not nearly enough for those who expected a Messiah.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 03, 2012, 09:23:10 AM
+100 MerrittsMustache.

Could not be more dead-on.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 03, 2012, 10:13:33 AM
I'd high five you for that post, MerrittsMustache, but I'm not that good of a teammate.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Dawson Rental on January 03, 2012, 10:26:18 AM
Simply put, many fans don't like Vander because he's making them look bad.

When Vander dissed Wisco and came to Marquette, many fans touted him as Wade 2.0 (or should I say Wade 3.0 since Dameon Mason was annointed Wade 2.0?). He's a 6'4", athletic, all-around stud and he was coming to our school to follow in Wade's footsteps. MU fans mocked Badger fans because one of the most highly ranked in-state recruits in recent memory didn't want to stay in Madison. He wanted to be a Warrior. Currently, Blue is a valuable role player at Marquette and many MU fans are ready to label him a complete bust because, 1.5 seasons into his career, he hasn't been the All-American they were unfairly expecting him to be. In other words, Blue is making them look bad because they had talked him up and had built him up to an impossible-to-attain level and he's not even close to reaching that level so they're taking it out on him. If Vander was a 4-star recruit from Texas, you'd barely hear a whisper about his offensive struggles. Jamail Jones, for example, was ranked just outside the top 50 as a recruit and he can't even get on the floor consistently yet you don't constantly see threads popping up ripping his game or his high-fiving prowess.

Dominic James was a similar situation to Blue. He was a freshman stud and appeared to be on his way to the NBA Lottery. Unfortunately, he peaked as a freshman and many fans never "forgave" him for that. He was going to be the next big thing at MU and instead ended up with a disappointing career, finishing 2nd in school history in assists and 3rd in scoring.



Dominic James did create some of the negativity around himself when he spent every offseason agonizing over whether to enter the NBA draft.  After his freshman year, it was a possibility, but after his junior and senior seasons, it was kind of silly, as he found out when he went undrated after his senior year.

Peaking your freshman year is highly unusual, and when you follow it by creating speculation that you might leave for the NBA, you've definitely hyped up the expectation machine for yourself.  People came to feel that Dominic had stopped working hard on his game, but I always felt that he created problems for himself by trying too hard to live up to the hype created by that monster year.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: reinko on January 03, 2012, 10:27:13 AM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: APieperFan3 on January 03, 2012, 10:38:04 AM

I think Wilson has been living off his performance against Jordan Taylor.  I think he is a fine defender, but not the defender that some people here are suggesting.

And the Big East has quite a few guards who are quicker than Jordan Taylor.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 03, 2012, 10:45:12 AM
Dominic James did create some of the negativity around himself when he spent every offseason agonizing over whether to enter the NBA draft.  After his freshman year, it was a possibility, but after his junior and senior seasons, it was kind of silly, as he found out when he went undrated after his senior year.

Peaking your freshman year is highly unusual, and when you follow it by creating speculation that you might leave for the NBA, you've definitely hyped up the expectation machine for yourself.  People came to feel that Dominic had stopped working hard on his game, but I always felt that he created problems for himself by trying too hard to live up to the hype created by that monster year.
I didn't mind when he spent the offseason after his senior season checking out his NBA worth.

I thought it was McNeal after his junior season checking out the NBA.  DJ did that after his sophomore season and could not declare again after his junior season.  Recall, though, after their junior seasons was when TC left.  Getting a new coach in those circumstances could leave one to at least explore the option.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 03, 2012, 10:48:09 AM
Simply put, many fans don't like Vander because he's making them look bad.

When Vander dissed Wisco and came to Marquette, many fans touted him as Wade 2.0 (or should I say Wade 3.0 since Dameon Mason was annointed Wade 2.0?). He's a 6'4", athletic, all-around stud and he was coming to our school to follow in Wade's footsteps. MU fans mocked Badger fans because one of the most highly ranked in-state recruits in recent memory didn't want to stay in Madison. He wanted to be a Warrior. Currently, Blue is a valuable role player at Marquette and many MU fans are ready to label him a complete bust because, 1.5 seasons into his career, he hasn't been the All-American they were unfairly expecting him to be. In other words, Blue is making them look bad because they had talked him up and had built him up to an impossible-to-attain level and he's not even close to reaching that level so they're taking it out on him. If Vander was a 4-star recruit from Texas, you'd barely hear a whisper about his offensive struggles. Jamail Jones, for example, was ranked just outside the top 50 as a recruit and he can't even get on the floor consistently yet you don't constantly see threads popping up ripping his game or his high-fiving prowess.

Dominic James was a similar situation to Blue. He was a freshman stud and appeared to be on his way to the NBA Lottery. Unfortunately, he peaked as a freshman and many fans never "forgave" him for that. He was going to be the next big thing at MU and instead ended up with a disappointing career, finishing 2nd in school history in assists and 3rd in scoring.




If there are a lot of people that are really disappointed in Vander, honestly, I don't know why a top WI HS kid would want to stay in state to play. Too many ignorant/impatient fans who's expectations are too tough to meet.

He's a soph. starter and contributor on a top 20 team. He's not perfect, but he's not as bad as some have made him out to be.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 03, 2012, 10:50:26 AM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.

But everyone likes him because on offense he has moves like Jagger. Amazing how the guys that stand out on offense get a pass but the ones that stand out on defense don't. If VB scored 15 ppg but couldn't defend a lick and his rebounds and assists were cut in half, he'd be 10 times more popular.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 03, 2012, 10:50:38 AM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.

But he wasn't highly ranked in HS, so it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: APieperFan3 on January 03, 2012, 11:05:47 AM
But everyone likes him because on offense he has moves like Jagger. Amazing how the guys that stand out on offense get a pass but the ones that stand out on defense don't. If VB scored 15 ppg but couldn't defend a lick and his rebounds and assists were cut in half, he'd be 10 times more popular.

Proving again that the "average fan" is an idiot
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 03, 2012, 11:11:31 AM
But everyone likes him because on offense he has moves like Jagger. Amazing how the guys that stand out on offense get a pass but the ones that stand out on defense don't. If VB scored 15 ppg but couldn't defend a lick and his rebounds and assists were cut in half, he'd be 10 times more popular.
You mean he would be thought of similarly to Mayo.  Outside of the 15 ppg, that is the analogy ...
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 03, 2012, 12:06:27 PM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.
I was wondering when someone was going to point out this little inconsistency
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 03, 2012, 12:09:24 PM
But everyone likes him because on offense he has moves like Jagger. Amazing how the guys that stand out on offense get a pass but the ones that stand out on defense don't. If VB scored 15 ppg but couldn't defend a lick and his rebounds and assists were cut in half, he'd be 10 times more popular.

Agree completely. My HS coach used to say that scoring points doesn't mean you're a good basketball player, it means you'll get your name in the paper.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 03, 2012, 12:45:16 PM

If there are a lot of people that are really disappointed in Vander, honestly, I don't know why a top WI HS kid would want to stay in state to play. Too many ignorant/impatient fans who's expectations are too tough to meet.

He's a soph. starter and contributor on a top 20 team. He's not perfect, but he's not as bad as some have made him out to be.


This is life.  If you have great tickets for a Packer/Bears game where the face is $200, you sold them outside the stadium for $300 but you reject an offer from your friend to sell them for $400, would you be disappointed?  Yes.  Would you still be happy that you made $100 for doing nothing?  Yes.

He was billed as a 5 star recruit.  There are many 5 star recruits that look solid their freshmen year.  You expect a 5 star to be pretty polished in most areas and needing some a little work in other areas.  Blue came in very raw on offense as a 5 star freshmen guard.  So yes, I was disappointed.  We all saw potential and everyone expected a big bump from a year in the weight room and more practice.

We expected a big bump this year and we got a very tiny bump.  Without added a jumper, I still think the kid could be a 14ppg player if he could finish around the rim.  But as it stands, he has disappointed again.

This is life man.  He has huge potiential and he isn't close to where he could be.  Every first pick in the draft is expected to be an all star.  Being a role player would be a disappointment.  When I move on from my job and get my next pay bump, people are going to expect that I do bigger and better things than my previous place.  This isn't a popularity contest. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Dawson Rental on January 03, 2012, 12:57:42 PM
I didn't mind when he spent the offseason after his senior season checking out his NBA worth.

I thought it was McNeal after his junior season checking out the NBA.  DJ did that after his sophomore season and could not declare again after his junior season.  Recall, though, after their junior seasons was when TC left.  Getting a new coach in those circumstances could leave one to at least explore the option.

Sorry, I misspoke, I meant after his sophomore and junior seasons.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: RawdogDX on January 03, 2012, 01:01:02 PM
"Slap of 5"
?  ...
Did Borat go to MU?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 03, 2012, 01:02:11 PM
Sorry, I misspoke, I meant after his sophomore and junior seasons.
Yeah, I knew that.  Couldn't resist, though.   ;)

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Dawson Rental on January 03, 2012, 01:07:42 PM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.

A quote from DJO in Enlund's blog:
Marquette guard Darius Johnson-Odom said, “I think Davante has kind of come into his own. He’s a good player, once we get him to get that motor running. Everybody knows Davante is very quiet and he doesn’t show a lot of energy in his mannerisms but he’s a great guy. He plays hard and he wants to win and he wants to be a part of this team.”
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Ari Gold on January 03, 2012, 01:12:34 PM
If having a sourpuss on your face, not high fiving teammates, and ignoring coaches when going to the bench is so offensive, just watch our current SOTG and how he acts.

(http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~stevelee/eeyore.jpg)

But I still love Smoove D
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: muzzwilliams on January 03, 2012, 03:31:09 PM
talk about a unneccesary thread.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: The Maestro on January 03, 2012, 04:49:29 PM
They were just talking about this on SportsNation. Michelle Beadle said it was "sad."
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: strotty on January 03, 2012, 04:58:03 PM
From Vander's Twitter account:

@Mr_Bicenten is my brother...I did not intentionally try not to shake is hand when I was subbed out...very immature on my part!! Hes my boy!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MU B2002 on January 03, 2012, 05:05:32 PM
So stupid he has to put that, and this issue has gotten so much attention.  D Wil should just give air 5s like Bogut did a couple seasons ago.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MuMark on January 03, 2012, 05:10:43 PM
Looks like Derrick has recovered from this traumatic episode.......

 
@Mr_Bicenten
Derrick Wilson @VanderBlue2 is my brother I know he did not intentionally do that he's a great human being And That's why he's still my right hand man
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MattyWarrior on January 03, 2012, 06:14:50 PM
So stupid its being posted about!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 03, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
This is life.  If you have great tickets for a Packer/Bears game where the face is $200, you sold them outside the stadium for $300 but you reject an offer from your friend to sell them for $400, would you be disappointed?  Yes.  Would you still be happy that you made $100 for doing nothing?  Yes.

He was billed as a 5 star recruit.  There are many 5 star recruits that look solid their freshmen year.  You expect a 5 star to be pretty polished in most areas and needing some a little work in other areas.  Blue came in very raw on offense as a 5 star freshmen guard.  So yes, I was disappointed.  We all saw potential and everyone expected a big bump from a year in the weight room and more practice.

We expected a big bump this year and we got a very tiny bump.  Without added a jumper, I still think the kid could be a 14ppg player if he could finish around the rim.  But as it stands, he has disappointed again.

This is life man.  He has huge potiential and he isn't close to where he could be.  Every first pick in the draft is expected to be an all star.  Being a role player would be a disappointment.  When I move on from my job and get my next pay bump, people are going to expect that I do bigger and better things than my previous place.  This isn't a popularity contest. 

- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 03, 2012, 08:09:18 PM
They were just talking about this on SportsNation. Michelle Beadle said it was "sad."
Beadle and Cowsh*t only talk stupidity, so this 6 page thread is officially stupid.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 04, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.
You could add EWill to the list from the past two years.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 04, 2012, 08:53:36 AM
- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

Especially kids from Wisconsin.  Give him some time.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 04, 2012, 09:39:10 AM
- Junior was pretty highly ranked coming out of high school, and he is a decent role player, but it has taken him 3 years to get there.

- Jamail Jones can't even find the court as a soph.

- Jamil Wilson is very inconsistent, and his minutes reflect that.

A lot of highly recruited guys take time to develop. That's just the way it is.

Vander is no more special or worse than any of these guys. It takes some time. Cut the kid some slack.

Junior was not as high as Blue was on the recruiting ranking.  Junior was billed as a pass first PG.  He was hurt his first year and played only a handful of minutes in the games he played in.  He came into his sophomore year and as the season progressed, he continued to play better and better.  This year, it is clear that he is a stronger finisher around the rim and the offense runs better with him on the court.

JJ can't find the court.  You're right.  I expect 4 star players to take a year to develop and maybe two.  If he isn't contributing on this team next year, then he will be a disappointment.

PT and contributions are not really a critical aspect for me.  A situation can dictate a bad player getting PT and even average players can fill some stats.  The point I have been making throughout this entire thing is that he is not developing that well on offense.  The kid has played a CRAPLOAD of minutes his freshmen year and this year.  This has not resulted in a "hands down" better player on offense.  He still makes terrible decisions when driving.  He still can not finish around the rim.  He still turns the ball over at a high rate.  He still is a poor shooter.  It is so clear that when a team can match his athletism, he performs poorly on the offensive end.  This is because his skillset is not as advanced as his athletism.

I truly believe that we will see Jamil really grow in the next couple of weeks with the more PT he gets.  I think you will see him start churning out more 10+ point games.  As for Blue, at this stage, my hope is that something just clicks and he learns to finish around the rim.  As I said before, I think he can still be very dangerous on offense if he just figured out how to make a layup in traffic.  Until then, he will be a nonfactor on offense.  And in my eyes, you can't be a good/great player if you are a nonfactor (or negative) on one side of the floor.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 04, 2012, 10:04:07 AM
Junior was not as high as Blue was on the recruiting ranking.

Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: reinko on January 04, 2012, 10:08:57 AM
Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.

Facts are for nerds.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 04, 2012, 11:04:05 AM
Wrong. Using RSCI, which averages all rankings, Junior was #47, JWilson was #40, Blue was #48 and Jones was #74. 

Blue was rated a 5 star by Rivals only. One list left him out ofthe the top 100 completely.

I stand corrected.  At the end of the day, Junior has made big stride from the time he started playing for MU til now.  Blue hasn't developed very well on offense.  Hopefully he starts to show it because if he does, we could be really tough to beat on offense.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 04, 2012, 11:06:47 AM
I stand corrected.  At the end of the day, Junior has made big stride from the time he started playing for MU til now.  Blue hasn't developed very well on offense.  Hopefully he starts to show it because if he does, we could be really tough to beat on offense.

Junior gets credit for taking a big stride?

Blue is arguably already a better player and he is a year younger.

Oh, and as far as Jamil avg. 10pts per game for the rest of the year, I'll take that bet. Name the stakes.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 04, 2012, 12:23:01 PM
Junior gets credit for taking a big stride?

Blue is arguably already a better player and he is a year younger.

Oh, and as far as Jamil avg. 10pts per game for the rest of the year, I'll take that bet. Name the stakes.


And JC shouldn't get credit because???

JC is a PG.  They do different things but if we are grading on PG position (Blue plays that position at times) JC is a better PG.  The offense runs so much smoother with JC in at PG.  And again, if you don't think getting an injury that prevents you from playing stuns your development, that's fine.  I think it does.  So I think that is why his play was so bad his freshmen year, but then you saw him get better his sophomore year.  And this year he is better.  I also think that PT helps accelerate development and JC has about 15 more minutes of PT than Blue. 

As for Jamil, I said Jamil will START getting 10+ games.  I don't think he will do that on a consistent basis from here on out.  If he minutes stick to about 21-24pg, I think he will average about 8 points, 6 rebounds.  I see his game improving though and I thought in the beginning of the season, he looked a bit out of place.  Once he settles into a role, he will start producing more.

I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 04, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 04, 2012, 01:10:36 PM
I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

Here's where I'm at: (and then we can drop the subject for a while)
- Vander's offensive skills are raw and still unrefined
- He's not where I hoped he'd be at this point, but I still see a lot of upside

I think we both agree on this. Easy.

With this said, there is a discrepancy with how much heat the kid takes (in my opinion).

When he makes mistakes (missed lay-up, turnover, missed high 5, etc.) there are several posts/threads about it with insightful opinions like "He can't make a lay-up!".

Every other player seems to get the benefit of the doubt, that's why I bring them up.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 04, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?



Yes, because he is a 5* player.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 04, 2012, 01:52:28 PM
Where should his offensive skillset be? At the end of last season, if someone told you that on January 4, Blue would be averaging 9.4 points, shooting 43% from the floor, and would be doubling his assist per game average, would you have complained?



I wouldn't complain... I would want to see how he is doing it though.  First off, the struggles against higher competition.  Against teams from major conferences, he is averaging 7.5ppg and shooting 35% and his A/T ratio is 1:1.  That is not very good.  On top of that, the majority of his shots he takes are from drives.  You should have a better percentage when you shoot layups.

His skill set should be something... anything.  Typically during the development of a player's offense, you see them develop something that they can depend on.  Three point shooting, mid range shooting, or layups.  Then, they build on it.  He had nothing he could depend on last year, and he is in the same position this year.  With his ability to get to the rim, I would have thought he would have improved his finishing skills.  He didn't.  Fine.  But he didn't really improve his shooting either.  So again, he is stuck being ineffective on offense.

I hope my opinion of him changes after tonight because we are going to need him.  But with the size in the lane, based on what I have seen,  he is going to be swatted about 3 times with at least one resulting in a fast break layup or three and a bunch of contested missed layups.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 05, 2012, 11:25:11 AM
Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"


Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 05, 2012, 11:50:18 AM
Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"




Delivering '5s'? No wonder we lost the game, Blue is too busy trying to get on ESPN again to care about the game.

DERP DERP DERP DERP DERP DERP
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 05, 2012, 12:28:06 PM
Did anyone notice that at one point late in the 1st half, Vander came out of the game and high fived Buzz, the coaching staff and then went the entire length of the bench delivering "slaps of 5?"




Good for Vander.  Stick it in your ear Mike Kelley.  No More Access for You!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hoopaloop on January 16, 2012, 12:06:31 PM
I'm sure others who watched saw Mike Kelly roll replay of Vander coming out of game and Wilson offering him a handshake/five..several times and Vander just ignored him...

If I'm Wilson, I pull Vander aside and tell him if I offer you a 5..several times and you blow me off 3 times...next time I'm gonna punch you in the mouth.  Which we all know Wilson could destroy Vander if it came to blows...



+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MU B2002 on January 17, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
Yawn.  So now he is a cancer?  What a joke.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 17, 2012, 07:13:34 PM
+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

I was looking for similar comments from you in the thread discussing when Jae not only did not give the love back to Junior on Saturday, but yelled at him.  Jae is a cancer as well, right?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 17, 2012, 07:20:14 PM
+1

It wasn't the only time this game that he did it.  There was a point on the baseline when several teammates tried to give him some love and he looked right at them and walked away.  He has done it in other games as well.  Seems as though he is a moody individual.  Show your teammates some love, accept their well wishes.  This kind of behavior can put a cancer in the locker room.

Seriously? What is your obsession with reviving dead threads? This was 11 days old. The discussion to be had was had a week and a half ago.

Okay...new term. Any time someone bumps a thread that is 10+ days old and clearly dead, it will heretofore be known as "Hooping". So instead of asking why someone bumped that old thing, we can ask "Hey man, why you Hooping?"
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: jtrash37 on January 17, 2012, 07:38:15 PM
Seriously? What is your obsession with reviving dead threads? This was 11 days old. The discussion to be had was had a week and a half ago.

Okay...new term. Any time someone bumps a thread that is 10+ days old and clearly dead, it will heretofore be known as "Hooping". So instead of asking why someone bumped that old thing, we can ask "Hey man, why you Hooping?"

LOVE IT!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 17, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
I'm just happy that Ners and Chicos agreed on something.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ringout on January 17, 2012, 09:19:28 PM
I'm just happy that Ners and Chicos agreed on something.

HE IS NOT CHICOS!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: leever on January 18, 2012, 10:13:11 AM
HE IS NOT CHICOS!

But he'd like to be.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 03:08:30 AM
Junior gets credit for taking a big stride?

Blue is arguably already a better player and he is a year younger.

Oh, and as far as Jamil avg. 10pts per game for the rest of the year, I'll take that bet. Name the stakes.


Good thing you didn't take that bet.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 22, 2012, 06:38:58 AM
Good thing you didn't take that bet.

Uhh...why? In the 6 games since that post was made, Jamil has scored 33 points, an average of 5.5 ppg. Before yesterday, that average since Jan. 4 was at 3.4 ppg. Both numbers are a far cry from 10 ppg.

Assuming we play the minimum games the rest of the year, 11 Big East games, 1 Big East tourney game, and 1 postseason (at least NIT, even if you're a pessimist) game, Jamil would have to average over 11.3 ppg the rest of the year for him to have lost that bet.

One game does not a season average make. It's like people that expected DG to start averaging a double-double because he had 22/15 against St. John's, or assuming that DJO was no longer a prolific scorer because he had a 5-game stretch with one DNP and a 12.5 ppg average (since then he's scored at least 18 in 7 straight games).

Jamil had a big night. I hope it is a springboard for him. But more likely, he'll have some up nights and some down nights. I personally still find it highly unlikely that he'll end up averaging double-digits from the Georgetown game on. I'd jump in on that bet, and I'm a big Jamil fan.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on January 22, 2012, 07:32:57 AM
Jamil is a very gifted athlete with a huge upside for MU.  He looks like he's an easy 6'8" with a long wing span!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 22, 2012, 08:54:13 AM
Good thing you didn't take that bet.

I'll still take it.

What are the stakes?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: bilsu on January 22, 2012, 09:17:33 AM
Uhh...why? In the 6 games since that post was made, Jamil has scored 33 points, an average of 5.5 ppg. Before yesterday, that average since Jan. 4 was at 3.4 ppg. Both numbers are a far cry from 10 ppg.

Assuming we play the minimum games the rest of the year, 11 Big East games, 1 Big East tourney game, and 1 postseason (at least NIT, even if you're a pessimist) game, Jamil would have to average over 11.3 ppg the rest of the year for him to have lost that bet.

One game does not a season average make. It's like people that expected DG to start averaging a double-double because he had 22/15 against St. John's, or assuming that DJO was no longer a prolific scorer because he had a 5-game stretch with one DNP and a 12.5 ppg average (since then he's scored at least 18 in 7 straight games).

Jamil had a big night. I hope it is a springboard for him. But more likely, he'll have some up nights and some down nights. I personally still find it highly unlikely that he'll end up averaging double-digits from the Georgetown game on. I'd jump in on that bet, and I'm a big Jamil fan.
I think part of it is the player having confidence in himself and the coach having confidence in the player. In the earlier games Wilson did not shoot very much. I agree there will be up and down games from him the rest of the season, but I fully expect him to shoot 3 times more than he was at the start thus giving him the opportunity to be a double figure scorer.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 10:52:17 AM
Good thing you didn't take that bet.

Yeah, I'd take that bet as well.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 11:46:04 AM
And JC shouldn't get credit because???

JC is a PG.  They do different things but if we are grading on PG position (Blue plays that position at times) JC is a better PG.  The offense runs so much smoother with JC in at PG.  And again, if you don't think getting an injury that prevents you from playing stuns your development, that's fine.  I think it does.  So I think that is why his play was so bad his freshmen year, but then you saw him get better his sophomore year.  And this year he is better.  I also think that PT helps accelerate development and JC has about 15 more minutes of PT than Blue. 

As for Jamil, I said Jamil will START getting 10+ games.  I don't think he will do that on a consistent basis from here on out.  If he minutes stick to about 21-24pg, I think he will average about 8 points, 6 rebounds.  I see his game improving though and I thought in the beginning of the season, he looked a bit out of place.  Once he settles into a role, he will start producing more.

I am just confused as to why you have to start other players when its obvious that Blue's offensive development/skillset isn't where it should be.  Oh well.

Lol.  I said it. I just saw signs of improvement. I knew he would have a breakout game. That's what you hope for when you give a talented player PT.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 22, 2012, 11:53:48 AM
Just a note, you never, ever, ever want to call a game a "breakout game" the next day. You won't be able to tell if a game is truly a breakout until weeks or more likely a month later. Does he take that 16/7 performance and start routinely turning in 10/5 for us? If so, you can go back and call that a breakout. If he goes back to averaging 5/3, then it was just a good game.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 12:07:46 PM
Just a note, you never, ever, ever want to call a game a "breakout game" the next day. You won't be able to tell if a game is truly a breakout until weeks or more likely a month later. Does he take that 16/7 performance and start routinely turning in 10/5 for us? If so, you can go back and call that a breakout. If he goes back to averaging 5/3, then it was just a good game.

It never ever ever ever matters if I call it a breakout game. Also, he is doing what is expected. He is improving as he gets more experience. If you aren't improving, you will see the bench.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 22, 2012, 02:19:44 PM
Lol.  I said it. I just saw signs of improvement. I knew he would have a breakout game. That's what you hope for when you give a talented player PT.

Soooo... the bets on or off?

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 02:44:38 PM
Hows blue doing?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 02:47:32 PM
Hows blue doing?

Playing well in my opinion.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 03:05:07 PM
Playing well in my opinion.

JW is averaging 9ppg, 5 rebounds, and 2 blocks in the last 3 games. VB is averaging 3ppg, 2rpg, 2apg, 2TOpg and has a total of 1 steal and 0 blocks in that span... Stellar performances.

Players are suppose to show progress as they play more minutes. Blue hasn't shown that in a season and a half. His minutes are going down and our team looks better.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 03:07:30 PM
JW is averaging 9ppg, 5 rebounds, and 2 blocks in the last 3 games. VB is averaging 3ppg, 2rpg, 2apg, 2TOpg and has a total of 1 steal and 0 blocks in that span... Stellar performances.

Players are suppose to show progress as they play more minutes. Blue hasn't shown that in a season and a half. His minutes are going down and our team looks better.

How does Vander playing well have anything to do with Wilson?

Did Vander punch you out at Qdoba? Or did he eff your girlfriend?

He's playing solid basketball, mostly defensively. Not too mention playing a lesser role and still giving it 110%.

Time to stop playing the broken record.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 22, 2012, 03:11:53 PM
nt
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 22, 2012, 03:26:05 PM
How does Vander playing well have anything to do with Wilson?

Did Vander punch you out at Qdoba? Or did he eff your girlfriend?

He's playing solid basketball, mostly defensively. Not too mention playing a lesser role and still giving it 110%.

Time to stop playing the broken record.

+32 bajillion

Why do Marquette fans seem to have such a hate on for Vander? Every thread seems to have swipes at the kid. It's sad, and doesn't reflect well on Marquette's alumni and students. I don't get such trolling behavior in regard to your own players. Aren't the occasional BADger fans bad enough?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 22, 2012, 03:57:08 PM


Did Vander punch you out at Qdoba? Or did he eff your girlfriend MOM?

He's playing solid basketball, mostly defensively. Not too mention playing a lesser role and still giving it 110%.

Time to stop playing the broken record.

FIXED.

Blue held PC's best player, Council, to 11 points, on 2-13 shooting.  So he did play pretty damn well, on defense.  He also had a pretty fantastic throwdown dunk.  He did everything that was asked of him last night.  Hell, he may have even HIGH FIVED correctly a few times, and HUDDLED during free throws.   
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
+32 bajillion

Why do Marquette fans seem to have such a hate on for Vander? Every thread seems to have swipes at the kid. It's sad, and doesn't reflect well on Marquette's alumni and students. I don't get such trolling behavior in regard to your own players. Aren't the occasional BADger fans bad enough?

You see it as swipes at a kid. I posted simply to rub it some posters' faces when they thought I was crazy for believing that Blue's play and progress warrants fewer minutes. Within these opinions, posters mentioned that JW is a disappointment while I mentiond that I was seeing real progress and I thought we would start seeing some solid performances from JW as he got more PT. Then people didn't believe that would happen either. Sometimes, people have to eat a hot pile of crow and I don't might serving it every now and then.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hoopaloop on January 22, 2012, 04:07:45 PM
I was looking for similar comments from you in the thread discussing when Jae not only did not give the love back to Junior on Saturday, but yelled at him.  Jae is a cancer as well, right?

I said can be a cancer.  Did not say is a cancer. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hoopaloop on January 22, 2012, 04:09:08 PM
Seriously? What is your obsession with reviving dead threads? This was 11 days old. The discussion to be had was had a week and a half ago.

Okay...new term. Any time someone bumps a thread that is 10+ days old and clearly dead, it will heretofore be known as "Hooping". So instead of asking why someone bumped that old thing, we can ask "Hey man, why you Hooping?"

Funny how you kept this thread going the last few days.  If it wasn't a worthy topic, then why did you keep it going the last few days?

 ::)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 04:09:52 PM
FIXED.

Blue held PC's best player, Council, to 11 points, on 2-13 shooting.  So he did play pretty damn well, on defense.  He also had a pretty fantastic throwdown dunk.  He did everything that was asked of him last night.  Hell, he may have even HIGH FIVED correctly a few times, and HUDDLED during free throws.   

Lol... Blue played 14 minutes and Council play 39. I think someone else did just as good of a job shutting down Council
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 04:14:45 PM
You see it as swipes at a kid. I posted simply to rub it some posters' faces when they thought I was crazy for believing that Blue's play and progress warrants fewer minutes. Within these opinions, posters mentioned that JW is a disappointment while I mentiond that I was seeing real progress and I thought we would start seeing some solid performances from JW as he got more PT. Then people didn't believe that would happen either. Sometimes, people have to eat a hot pile of crow and I don't might serving it every now and then.

You do realize you're not serving any crow and no one really thinks that Vander is playing terrible like you do right?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hoopaloop on January 22, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
+32 bajillion

Why do Marquette fans seem to have such a hate on for Vander? Every thread seems to have swipes at the kid. It's sad, and doesn't reflect well on Marquette's alumni and students. I don't get such trolling behavior in regard to your own players. Aren't the occasional BADger fans bad enough?

Because Vander's behavior off the court has not been great. That is why.  His selfishness on the court at times is the other reason.  There are a number of students who will back up this statement in a second.  It also doesn't reflect well on Marquette's almuni and students when people on this board took crap shots at females that accused MU players of sexual assault, now did it?   You seem to want it both ways.

Vander came out of high school with a head that could barely fit through the door.  It rubbed many a student the wrong way.  It led to fights.  It led to skirmishes with the law.  Ask the students, or do they not count?  Does it still reflect badly on MU's alumni and students when they were there to see it? You can't have it both ways.  

I commend coach Williams for sitting him now in situations where he has hurt us, mostly down the stretch of games.  If Vander can mature off the court and get better offensively on the court, then that will be a win for those MU alumni, the students, the basketball team and Vander himself.  Some guys just take a little longer to get the maturity thing through their head, especially if they've been told how great they are most of their lives and then they find out they really weren't that great but merely pretty good.  I wish Vander well, but I also don't blame some of the students for having their issues with him.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 04:18:01 PM
Because Vander's behavior off the court has not been great. That is why.  His selfishness on the court at times is the other reason.  There are a number of students who will back up this statement in a second.  It also doesn't reflect well on Marquette's almuni and students when people on this board took crap shots at females that accused MU players of sexual assault, now did it?   You seem to want it both ways.

Vander came out of high school with a head that could barely fit through the door.  It rubbed many a student the wrong way.  It led to fights.  It led to skirmishes with the law.  Ask the students, or do they not count?  Does it still reflect badly on MU's alumni and students when they were there to see it? You can't have it both ways.  

I commend coach Williams for sitting him now in situations where he has hurt us, mostly down the stretch of games.  If Vander can mature off the court and get better offensively on the court, then that will be a win for those MU alumni, the students, the basketball team and Vander himself.  Some guys just take a little longer to get the maturity thing through their head, especially if they've been told how great they are most of their lives and then they find out they really weren't that great but merely pretty good.  I wish Vander well, but I also don't blame some of the students for having their issues with him.

Got any actual facts to back up your statements here?

Or are you going to tip toe the Chicos line of truth and assumptions?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 04:21:25 PM
You do realize you're not serving any crow and no one really thinks that Vander is playing terrible like you do right?

Strange. Blue logged less than 20 minutes the last 3 games. Before that, he logged 19 minutes the first game. Every other game he has logged over 20 minutes. Thats it.

First four games in the BE, he averaged 27mpg. Last three, 16mpg. If he is playing so great, why the drop in minutes? I guess Buzz wouldn't agree with what you just said.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Hoopaloop on January 22, 2012, 04:33:57 PM
Got any actual facts to back up your statements here?


Vander Blue charged with assault, brushes with the law.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/120171494.html


On the other stuff, you can talk to plenty of students and alumni if you wish.  Certainly some have expressed those same feelings here in this and other threads.  All you have to do is look or ask some students yourself.  He's a young guy that continues to mature.  Some guys take longer.  I was pleased to see his actions yesterday after being pulled out of the game.  Thought he was in the game, supporting his mates.  That is a sign of maturity.



Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Strange. Blue logged less than 20 minutes the last 3 games. Before that, he logged 19 minutes the first game. Every other game he has logged over 20 minutes. Thats it.

First four games in the BE, he averaged 27mpg. Last three, 16mpg. If he is playing so great, why the drop in minutes? I guess Buzz wouldn't agree with what you just said.

Again, nobody else think Vander is playing awful basketball. Only you and a select group of others.

Get over your hard on for the kid.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 04:53:30 PM
Again, nobody else think Vander is playing awful basketball. Only you and a select group of others.

Get over your hard on for the kid.

If the coach is benching you, you are not playing well. Get your head out of you know what.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 22, 2012, 05:01:44 PM
Because Vander's behavior off the court has not been great. That is why.  His selfishness on the court at times is the other reason.  There are a number of students who will back up this statement in a second.  It also doesn't reflect well on Marquette's almuni and students when people on this board took crap shots at females that accused MU players of sexual assault, now did it?   You seem to want it both ways.

He definitely had off-court issues in his first year. We haven't seen that since, however. I'm willing to give him the benefit that a few trips to court may have convinced him to clean up his ways a bit. By continuing to attack him without further incident, does that show an unwillingness to forgive?

As far as his selfishness on the court...hmm, not sure I can agree there. He's taken 26 shots in Big East play, an average of less than 4 per game. And he has tallied 26 assists in Big East play. Generally, selfish players don't have as many assists as they do shots taken.

Vander came out of high school with a head that could barely fit through the door.  It rubbed many a student the wrong way.  It led to fights.  It led to skirmishes with the law.  Ask the students, or do they not count?  Does it still reflect badly on MU's alumni and students when they were there to see it? You can't have it both ways.

Yes, he made mistakes. But is it a chronic thing? I haven't heard anything since early last year. Pretty much everything you are referring to happened in his first 6-7 months on campus. But freshman become sophomores in more ways than just on the court. Maybe it's time for the haters to give Vander a second chance. Or are you incapable of ever looking at his current actions rather than his past ones?

I commend coach Williams for sitting him now in situations where he has hurt us, mostly down the stretch of games.  If Vander can mature off the court and get better offensively on the court, then that will be a win for those MU alumni, the students, the basketball team and Vander himself.  Some guys just take a little longer to get the maturity thing through their head, especially if they've been told how great they are most of their lives and then they find out they really weren't that great but merely pretty good.  I wish Vander well, but I also don't blame some of the students for having their issues with him.

Seems like he has started to mature off the court. And his assists and shot selection indicate he's also gotten better offensively on the court. Some guys just take a little longer to realize what's happening in front of their eyes, especially if they have a long-standing bias against a player and don't want to let go of things that happened a year ago. I'm sure Vander wishes you well too, but probably wouldn't mind if you stopped slamming him online after every single game.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 22, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Hows blue doing?


You come on here to take a shot at me after Jamil has a good game.

I offer to take the bet again, and now you're bringing up Vander?

Vander has had an up and down season. Still shows good potential. Not unlike Jamil Wilson.

Are you taking the bet or not?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 22, 2012, 05:29:23 PM
If the coach is benching you, you are not playing well. Get your head out of you know what.
Or, it could be that you are playing pretty well, but somebody else is playing better. 

See how easy that was?  Get your head out of your you-know-what. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 22, 2012, 05:34:22 PM
The camera actually showed Vander givin' 5 to Wilson.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 22, 2012, 05:36:16 PM
The camera actually showed Vander givin' 5 to Wilson.
Which one?  The victim of Vander's most recent crime against humanity or the other one?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NoCheese on January 22, 2012, 05:41:35 PM
Is this thread still going on? Shut it down already
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 05:46:40 PM
If the coach is benching you, you are not playing well. Get your head out of you know what.

Benched like Jamail Jones? Where is your OUTRAGE over his performance.

My head isn't anywhere except in reality, hence why I'm not continually taking pot shots at the underclassmen on these team.

Again, did he eff your face up at Qdoba or did he eff your girlfriends face?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 22, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
Which one?  The victim of Vander's most recent crime against humanity or the other one?


Derrick
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 22, 2012, 05:58:52 PM
Is this thread still going on? Shut it down already

Why don't we just start a "I hate Vander Blue because I am a bitter, joyless person" thread, and all of the trolls can go post there.  Apparently to a few (thankfully, it's only a FEW) posters, the kid won't ever do anything right. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 22, 2012, 06:13:18 PM
Because Vander's behavior off the court has not been great. That is why.  His selfishness on the court at times is the other reason.  There are a number of students who will back up this statement in a second.  It also doesn't reflect well on Marquette's almuni and students when people on this board took crap shots at females that accused MU players of sexual assault, now did it?   You seem to want it both ways.

Vander came out of high school with a head that could barely fit through the door.  It rubbed many a student the wrong way.  It led to fights.  It led to skirmishes with the law.  Ask the students, or do they not count?  Does it still reflect badly on MU's alumni and students when they were there to see it? You can't have it both ways.  

I commend coach Williams for sitting him now in situations where he has hurt us, mostly down the stretch of games.  If Vander can mature off the court and get better offensively on the court, then that will be a win for those MU alumni, the students, the basketball team and Vander himself.  Some guys just take a little longer to get the maturity thing through their head, especially if they've been told how great they are most of their lives and then they find out they really weren't that great but merely pretty good.  I wish Vander well, but I also don't blame some of the students for having their issues with him.

Thanks for coming off your fainting couch, and clutching your pearls, to deliver that sermon. 

(http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/c/c1/Helen.jpg)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 06:21:03 PM
Strange. Blue logged less than 20 minutes the last 3 games. Before that, he logged 19 minutes the first game. Every other game he has logged over 20 minutes. Thats it.

First four games in the BE, he averaged 27mpg. Last three, 16mpg. If he is playing so great, why the drop in minutes? I guess Buzz wouldn't agree with what you just said.

Let's discuss the actual numbers here.

Vander Blue has averaged 4 less minutes per game after the Syracuse game then he did prior to the Syracuse game.

Since you're hanging your hat on this statistic, we can all learn so much from this team and sample size:
1. Vander Blue has averaged 4 less minutes per game since Syracuse, VB is the worst player on the team.
2. DJO has averaged 2 less minutes per game since Syracuse, DJO is the second worst player on the team. Buzz must be sending a message.
3. Gardner has averaged 2 less minutes per game since Syracuse, DJO is tied for the second worst player on the team then.
4. Jamil has averaged three more minutes per game since Syracuse, JW is the best player on the team.

More importantly if take the minutes played and average them with our wins versus losses in your sample size we get the following:
1. Jamil Wilson has averaged 20 more MPG in wins than losses. He is the best player on the team, when teamed with the information above.
2. Caddy averages 15 more MPG in losses than wins, second most talented on the team.

We can do this all night with such a small sample size.

If you really think Buzz is benching Vander, then why would be ever start a game?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 06:22:46 PM
Thanks for coming off your fainting couch, and clutching your pearls, to deliver that sermon. 

(http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/c/c1/Helen.jpg)

GOLD!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: dw3dw3dw3 on January 22, 2012, 06:35:05 PM
Speaking of sermons... today's reading was the story of Jonah. Perhaps some people could find some answers there. Vander is not a bad player, he may not be the player every one hoped was walking through that door, but someone who gets 20 minutes per game on a top 20 team is not a bad player. Does Mayo deserve more minutes than him? Buzz thinks so, but that doesn't mean Vander sucks, it just means Mayo is playing better.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 06:44:13 PM
Let's discuss the actual numbers here.

Vander Blue has averaged 4 less minutes per game after the Syracuse game then he did prior to the Syracuse game.

Since you're hanging your hat on this statistic, we can all learn so much from this team and sample size:
1. Vander Blue has averaged 4 less minutes per game since Syracuse, VB is the worst player on the team.
2. DJO has averaged 2 less minutes per game since Syracuse, DJO is the second worst player on the team. Buzz must be sending a message.
3. Gardner has averaged 2 less minutes per game since Syracuse, DJO is tied for the second worst player on the team then.
4. Jamil has averaged three more minutes per game since Syracuse, JW is the best player on the team.

More importantly if take the minutes played and average them with our wins versus losses in your sample size we get the following:
1. Jamil Wilson has averaged 20 more MPG in wins than losses. He is the best player on the team, when teamed with the information above.
2. Caddy averages 15 more MPG in losses than wins, second most talented on the team.

We can do this all night with such a small sample size.

If you really think Buzz is benching Vander, then why would be ever start a game?


The last three games he has averaged 2 points, 2 assists, 2 TOs, 3 rebounds, .3 steals, 0 blocks. He is not playing well. You think he is a key player that should be getting 30 minutes a game while I think he should be getting 10-15 minute and a pure role player. I am just happy that I am in the same boat as Buzz and we are collecting some wins. You can continue to think that Blue averaging 16 minutes a game the last three games (opposed to the 27 minutes a game he was averaging in the first four conference games) has nothing to do with his performance.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 22, 2012, 08:24:03 PM
Spending all your online time dedicating yourself to hating on a teenage kid seems a bit sad and pathetic. I hope your kids never disappoint you, or that if they do, you only channel this kind of bitter vitriol toward complete strangers.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 22, 2012, 08:30:52 PM
You see it as swipes at a kid. I posted simply to rub it some posters' faces when they thought I was crazy for believing that Blue's play and progress warrants fewer minutes. Within these opinions, posters mentioned that JW is a disappointment while I mentiond that I was seeing real progress and I thought we would start seeing some solid performances from JW as he got more PT. Then people didn't believe that would happen either. Sometimes, people have to eat a hot pile of crow and I don't might serving it every now and then.


Honestly, of your last 25 posts, something like 22 of them have some sort of negative comment about Vander Blue, including such gems as "He's not good" (last night) and "I don't think he's very good" (Monday.)  So if you want to serve a "hot pile of crow" over these pearls of wisdom, feel free.  You might as well be a dick about that too.

But don't expect people to take you seriously.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on January 22, 2012, 08:36:47 PM
Benched like Jamail Jones? Where is your OUTRAGE over his performance.

My head isn't anywhere except in reality, hence why I'm not continually taking pot shots at the underclassmen on these team.

Again, did he eff your face up at Qdoba or did he eff your girlfriends face bungholio?

fixed.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 22, 2012, 08:38:39 PM
Sometimes, people have to eat a hot pile of crow and I don't might serving it every now and then.

I think most people would prefer the hot pile of crow versus the hot pile of negative bulls*** you keep serving up.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUMac on January 22, 2012, 08:53:10 PM
I think most people would prefer the hot pile of crow versus the hot pile of negative bulls*** you keep serving up.
+ infinity  

Erik is getting old and stale.  He really has little to offer but his hate for Blue.  If he took a vacation, this board would be the better for it.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 08:55:47 PM

Honestly, of your last 25 posts, something like 22 of them have some sort of negative comment about Vander Blue, including such gems as "He's not good" (last night) and "I don't think he's very good" (Monday.)  So if you want to serve a "hot pile of crow" over these pearls of wisdom, feel free.  You might as well be a dick about that too.

But don't expect people to take you seriously.

I said that in response to a poster who wondered why Blue wasn't playing. Some thought it is because he was sick. It is really because he very ineffective on the offensive end. He is a solid defender but he is not SO good that you can overlook his poor offensive play. He is not ill. He is not "in a funk". At this stage of his career, that is the player he is. And for that type of player, he should be a 15 minute a game role player. Come in, play defense, get rebounds and don't do anything fancy with the ball and give the other teammates a breather. Sorry if that sounds negative. Sometimes people don't like hearing the truth.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 22, 2012, 09:32:03 PM
I said that in response to a poster who wondered why Blue wasn't playing. Some thought it is because he was sick. It is really because he very ineffective on the offensive end. He is a solid defender but he is not SO good that you can overlook his poor offensive play. He is not ill. He is not "in a funk". At this stage of his career, that is the player he is. And for that type of player, he should be a 15 minute a game role player. Come in, play defense, get rebounds and don't do anything fancy with the ball and give the other teammates a breather. Sorry if that sounds negative. Sometimes people don't like hearing the truth.

I am officially marking you down for stating that sophomore Vander Blue has reached his full potential. He will only be a defensive role player and nothing more.

If he blows this ceiling wide open, you will have to apologize to MUScoop for being a dumbass, or refrain from enjoying the Marquette/Vander success by leaving the board.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 22, 2012, 09:52:55 PM
I am officially marking you down for stating that sophomore Vander Blue has reached his full potential. He will only be a defensive role player and nothing more.

If he blows this ceiling wide open, you will have to apologize to MUScoop for being a dumbass, or refrain from enjoying the Marquette/Vander success by leaving the board.

Clearly you did not read my post. I said "At this stage of his career,...". If he takes the summer to learn how to finish, he will be pretty good. Right now, he is a marginal player.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: godzilla on January 22, 2012, 10:23:58 PM
Spending all your online time dedicating yourself to hating on a teenage kid seems a bit sad and pathetic. I hope your kids never disappoint you, or that if they do, you only channel this kind of bitter vitriol toward complete strangers.

I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.

His play on the court is "eh" but he's much worse off the court, imo.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 22, 2012, 10:33:59 PM
Erik,

I think your evaluation of Vander is actually fair.

However, your reaction to Vander being a role player is what is off base.

Other than DJO and Jae, every player at MU is a role player with some big holes in his game.

It seems like you are mad at Vander for not being as good as you want him to be, and now it's gotten to the point where you take pleasure in ripping him.

When Vander misses a lay-up, you always seem to be posting about it. Todd Mayo missed a breakaway dunk, and we don't hear a peep from you.

You need to just back off the kid a little and let him develop (like you seem to do for every other player).

PS Is the bet on?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MUCam on January 22, 2012, 10:50:34 PM
I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.

His play on the court is "eh" but he's much worse off the court, imo.

I often heard that Travis Diener was a punk. Thoughts?


EDIT: I make no claim as to the veracity of reportss regarding Diener. I just raise the issue because using "Blue is a punk" appears to me to be a false justification for trashing the kid.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: NersEllenson on January 22, 2012, 11:15:18 PM
Erik,

I think your evaluation of Vander is actually fair.

However, your reaction to Vander being a role player is what is off base.

Other than DJO and Jae, every player at MU is a role player with some big holes in his game.

It seems like you are mad at Vander for not being as good as you want him to be, and now it's gotten to the point where you take pleasure in ripping him.

When Vander misses a lay-up, you always seem to be posting about it. Todd Mayo missed a breakaway dunk, and we don't hear a peep from you.

You need to just back off the kid a little and let him develop (like you seem to do for every other player).

PS Is the bet on?
Probably because Mayo makes a lot of 3's, as well as other shots, limits his turnovers, and is an equally capable defender as is Vander.  Cotton was on a roll all day long yesterday, until Buzz put Mayo on him, and had Mayo face guard Cotton. Cotton was rendered invisible the rest of the way.  Vander is a solid defender, a good rebounding guard, but beyond that, he offers little at this point. 

If Vander can put on about 15 pounds of muscle this off season, and improve his shot a little bit, he will be a productive and effective player as a junior and senior.  Right now it seems he lacks some of the strength necessary to finish around the basket.  This is not hating on Vander either...it is just acknowledging the reality of his game right now..

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 23, 2012, 05:08:12 AM
Godzilla I have said this earlier but I have multiple relatives at MU who have told me a bunch of positive and negative things about Blue and other players. I have said some of the positive things here. Now I have no idea if your niece is telling the truth or not, but I think it is classless for you to post anonymously on a message board what she says and treat it like gospel.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on January 23, 2012, 06:42:26 AM
It is lunacy that this thread is running 9 pages. Who could contribute to this conversation and feel any kind of pride in themselves as human beings?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: chren21 on January 23, 2012, 07:16:26 AM
 Vander is a solid defender, a good rebounding guard, but beyond that, he offers little at this point.

If Vander can put on about 15 pounds of muscle this off season, and improve his shot a little bit, he will be a productive and effective player as a junior and senior.  Right now it seems he lacks some of the strength necessary to finish around the basket.  This is not hating on Vander either...it is just acknowledging the reality of his game right now..


This is right on. I would think anyone trying to say vander is more than the description above at this stage would have a hard time backing this up.  Other than I'm not sure it's a strength issue than more or less simply not having the killer instinct to "finish" whether is is near the basket or away.  When he makes a basket MOST of the time I almost feel like it was lucky, unless it is a relatively easy layup.  I have not read all these posts except for the last few but I don't feel like this is hating on him either...  Just what I see and feel.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on January 23, 2012, 07:24:53 AM
I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.

His play on the court is "eh" but he's much worse off the court, imo.

If true, I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you, that a college sophomore may not measure up to all of some adult's standards of behavior, because I know at age 19/20, I was a portrait of maturity.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 23, 2012, 07:39:44 AM
I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.


/eyeroll
/facepalm


CONGRATS!!

You just used one of the FIVE LAZIEST accusations in sports commentary!  Also would have accepted thug, phony, and clown.

Your prize:  this snarky post from me. 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/12/21/2646951/five-laziest-accusations-sports-commentary
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 23, 2012, 07:42:09 AM
It is lunacy that this thread is running 9 pages. Who could contribute to this conversation and feel any kind of pride in themselves as human beings?

CHECK, and MATE.  I could not have summed up this thread more succinctly in one sentence than that one.  I made it big, and bold, so that everyone may bask.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 23, 2012, 07:42:33 AM
Probably because Mayo makes a lot of 3's, as well as other shots, limits his turnovers, and is an equally capable defender as is Vander.  Cotton was on a roll all day long yesterday, until Buzz put Mayo on him, and had Mayo face guard Cotton. Cotton was rendered invisible the rest of the way.  Vander is a solid defender, a good rebounding guard, but beyond that, he offers little at this point.  


Mayo: 10.0/2.9/1.5/44.7%/35.9% from 3/1.7 TO in 22.1 minutes
Blue: 7.8/3.9/3.5/43.0%/27.8%/2.3 TO in 25.6 minutes

And I think while Mayo is an increasingly good defender, Blue is still a little better.

When I look at these, they really aren't all that different.  They both have roles to play.  Mayo's is to score.  Blue's is to handle, rebound and defend.  As we have needed more scoring, Mayo's minutes have obviously increased.  And rightly so.  He is playing well.

I think it has to do with expectations more than anything.  People expected more out of Blue.  He was a decommit from our in-state rival, a high profile signing, and is now a sophomore.  Mayo was a lightly recruited late signee, and is still a freshman.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: lab_warrior on January 23, 2012, 07:51:58 AM
Right now it seems he lacks some of the strength necessary to finish around the basket. 

Do you live on planet Earth, and have retinas?
/rhetorical

http://www.youtube.com/v/lk-J27-L-lY&fs=1&source=uds


http://www.youtube.com/v/3hGilSI2SC4&fs=1&source=uds

He's also had highlight reel dunks against several other teams this year.  Finishing at the hoop seems to NOT be a problem for him.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 23, 2012, 07:59:30 AM
Yeah, it is a touch issue more than a strength issue. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: mu_hilltopper on January 23, 2012, 08:11:19 AM
Showing three dunks doesn't mean Vander doesn't have trouble finishing around the hoop.   Someone with a big video library could easily put together a score of examples of him putting up a shot in the paint, hitting rim over and over.

Vander is who he is .. I doubt anyone would suggest he has played up to original hype/expectations.  He's a high-level defender with mid to low level scoring ability.  He'll probably finish his career at MU with those same traits, but who knows.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 23, 2012, 08:17:32 AM
Probably because Mayo makes a lot of 3's, as well as other shots, limits his turnovers, and is an equally capable defender as is Vander.  Cotton was on a roll all day long yesterday, until Buzz put Mayo on him, and had Mayo face guard Cotton. Cotton was rendered invisible the rest of the way.  Vander is a solid defender, a good rebounding guard, but beyond that, he offers little at this point. 

If Vander can put on about 15 pounds of muscle this off season, and improve his shot a little bit, he will be a productive and effective player as a junior and senior.  Right now it seems he lacks some of the strength necessary to finish around the basket.  This is not hating on Vander either...it is just acknowledging the reality of his game right now..



Again, I'm not saying Vander is perfect. He's an incomplete player as a soph.

Pointing out the holes in his game in a constructive manner is good conversation. Mayo has been the better player lately, and they are coming up with a nice rotation between them.

However, every player makes mistakes. Blue seems to get crucified more than everybody else, and that's what I'm talking about.

Mayo is a good role player. He misses a dunk. Everybody shrugs.

Vander is a good role player. He misses a dunk, he is big a disappointment.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 23, 2012, 08:46:24 AM
I often heard that Travis Diener was a punk. Thoughts?


Though I have heard quite a few accounts of Diener's punkiness, Travis was a scrappy, little white guy and the best player on the team for a couple years so no one is allowed to say anything bad about him.

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: esotericmindguy on January 23, 2012, 09:02:04 AM

Mayo: 10.0/2.9/1.5/44.7%/35.9% from 3/1.7 TO in 22.1 minutes
Blue: 7.8/3.9/3.5/43.0%/27.8%/2.3 TO in 25.6 minutes

And I think while Mayo is an increasingly good defender, Blue is still a little better.

When I look at these, they really aren't all that different.  They both have roles to play.  Mayo's is to score.  Blue's is to handle, rebound and defend.  As we have needed more scoring, Mayo's minutes have obviously increased.  And rightly so.  He is playing well.

I think it has to do with expectations more than anything.  People expected more out of Blue.  He was a decommit from our in-state rival, a high profile signing, and is now a sophomore.  Mayo was a lightly recruited late signee, and is still a freshman.

Please don't use stats from games vs. the Savannah State's of CBB. I've posted Blue's stats vs. top 100 teams in the non conference and they are very similar. CONF Games:
Blue is averaging 4.3 ppg, 3.6 reb, 3.7 assists, 0.5 stl, & 2.3 to.
Mayo is averaging 10.4 ppg, 3.6 reb, 1.6 assists, 0.143 stl & 2.1 to.

Note that mayo is getting 25 minutes per game vs. Blue's 15. He's being productive with assists and rebounds considering his minutes, but is still a liability on offense and turns the ball over way to much.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Dawson Rental on January 23, 2012, 09:16:05 AM
I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.

His play on the court is "eh" but he's much worse off the court, imo.

You mean in your niece's opinion, right?

Suggested new topic of discussion: Was Vander Blue the sole reason for the Marquette Tribune's editorial?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 23, 2012, 09:17:55 AM
This is a really good thread.

I'm super glad that you guys are still talking about this.  We're totally going to get somewhere in this discussion today.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: 🏀 on January 23, 2012, 09:50:07 AM
This is a really good thread.

I'm super glad that you guys are still talking about this.  We're totally going to get somewhere in this discussion today.

I did gain some ground in this thread by deciding just to ignore Erick.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 23, 2012, 10:09:39 AM
Please don't use stats from games vs. the Savannah State's of CBB. I've posted Blue's stats vs. top 100 teams in the non conference and they are very similar. CONF Games:
Blue is averaging 4.3 ppg, 3.6 reb, 3.7 assists, 0.5 stl, & 2.3 to.
Mayo is averaging 10.4 ppg, 3.6 reb, 1.6 assists, 0.143 stl & 2.1 to.

Note that mayo is getting 25 minutes per game vs. Blue's 15. He's being productive with assists and rebounds considering his minutes, but is still a liability on offense and turns the ball over way to much.


OK, but see here is the problem.  "He turns the ball over way too much."  He turns it over just 0.2 times more per game than Mayo...that is *one* turnover every *five* games.  That isn't really all that different in the grand scheme of things.  There is a bias in the statement that makes no sense.

Mayo is the better scorer.  Blue is the better distributor and defender.  They have different roles.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: esotericmindguy on January 23, 2012, 11:16:16 AM
"He turns it over just 0.2 times more per game than Mayo", but in 10 less minutes. Although Mayo needs to do a better job in that department. That said the more aggressive you are offensively the more apt to turn it over.

My post was in response to your comment about the stats being similar, I don't think they are.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: GGGG on January 23, 2012, 11:26:02 AM
Yeah, you did a good job narrowing them down to the BE season.  And that does make your point.  It also shows that they are serving different roles.  Mayo has also grown to the point that he can do some of the things that Vander can do better than he could at the beginning of the year.  (Rebound, defend)
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MerrittsMustache on January 23, 2012, 11:26:12 AM

OK, but see here is the problem.  "He turns the ball over way too much."  He turns it over just 0.2 times more per game than Mayo...that is *one* turnover every *five* games.  That isn't really all that different in the grand scheme of things.  There is a bias in the statement that makes no sense.

Mayo is the better scorer.  Blue is the better distributor and defender.  They have different roles.

A lot of fans measure a player's ability by how many points he scores. But looking at it another way, if you assume 2 points for every assist then Blue's points + assists account for 11.7 ppg while Mayo accounts for 13.6 (using esoteric's stats). On the season, Blue accounts for 14.8 ppg, Mayo 13.0 ppg. Tells a bit of a different story, eh?

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: brewcity77 on January 23, 2012, 11:33:51 AM
A lot of fans measure a player's ability by how many points he scores. But looking at it another way, if you assume 2 points for every assist then Blue's points + assists account for 11.7 ppg while Mayo accounts for 13.6 (using esoteric's stats). On the season, Blue accounts for 14.8 ppg, Mayo 13.0 ppg. Tells a bit of a different story, eh?

How dare you use the Blue-haters' stats to contradict their own arguments?!? We MUST find fault with him, no matter what rational thought tells us!
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: Warriors10 on January 23, 2012, 11:45:03 AM
I'm guessing that the posters who are hardest on Blue, like myself, have relatives at MU (or know students there) and have heard that Blue is not some reformed good kid and is still a "punk," which is what my niece and her friends refer to him as.

His play on the court is "eh" but he's much worse off the court, imo.

Your niece write the editorial?

I also like how you judge a kid you don't even know.  For example, I am going to judge that you are very incompetent at making a rational argument based on that post.  Doesn't seem right eh?
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 23, 2012, 12:17:26 PM
Erik,

I think your evaluation of Vander is actually fair.

However, your reaction to Vander being a role player is what is off base.

Other than DJO and Jae, every player at MU is a role player with some big holes in his game.

It seems like you are mad at Vander for not being as good as you want him to be, and now it's gotten to the point where you take pleasure in ripping him.

When Vander misses a lay-up, you always seem to be posting about it. Todd Mayo missed a breakaway dunk, and we don't hear a peep from you.

You need to just back off the kid a little and let him develop (like you seem to do for every other player).

PS Is the bet on?

My take is that PT is a scarce commodity.  And coaches invest PT in their players.  And there is a balancing between giving players PT so that the team can win and giving PT to players so that they can develop.  In the last year and a half, there has been alot of time put in for Vander.  The kid does have a high ceiling but he isn't developing.  But for quite a few weeks, I was hoping that Buzz would start giving PT to other players in the hope that they would develop because Blue was not developing as well as he should be. 

I think it is natural for kids to start playing in the beginning of the season and look a little uncomfortable.  But as the season progresses, you see them get more comfortable and start to blossom.  You didn't see that with Blue last year.  And it wasn't happening this year.  To sum that up, I brought up JW to show a player that was looking more and more comfortable.  It really wasn't until 2 weeks ago that he got that ball in the paint 8 feet away and he felt like he should shoot.  Now he is doing it.  I am fine with Blue playing 10-15 minutes a game in a pure back up role much like JB his first year.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: tower912 on January 23, 2012, 12:33:32 PM
If we still had a legitimate 8-9 man rotation, your point would have more validity.    For the most part, though, we are playing a 7 man roation with 10 minutes being split between Juan and DWilson.   So 190 minute split 7 ways.    DG 25, JWil 25, Jae 35, Junior 27, DJO 33.    That leaves 45 minutes (or more if DWil and Juan don't play or there is foul trouble)  to split between Mayo and Blue.    You simply can't have Blue only playing 10-15 minutes a game.     The last few games, JWil has picked up extra minutes.   If he continues to improve, adjustments will be made, I am sure.   The fundamental calculus is not going to change that much.   Keep running Blue out there for 25 mpg for the good of the team. 
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: ErickJD08 on January 23, 2012, 01:22:37 PM
If we still had a legitimate 8-9 man rotation, your point would have more validity.    For the most part, though, we are playing a 7 man roation with 10 minutes being split between Juan and DWilson.   So 190 minute split 7 ways.    DG 25, JWil 25, Jae 35, Junior 27, DJO 33.    That leaves 45 minutes (or more if DWil and Juan don't play or there is foul trouble)  to split between Mayo and Blue.    You simply can't have Blue only playing 10-15 minutes a game.     The last few games, JWil has picked up extra minutes.   If he continues to improve, adjustments will be made, I am sure.   The fundamental calculus is not going to change that much.   Keep running Blue out there for 25 mpg for the good of the team. 

I think Mayo should be playing around 30 minutes a game.  There is no way it should be a clean split.  There is just too big of a boost in offense and too little of a drop off in defense to warrent a split.

And I think giving minutes to Juan and Jones could have some benefits down the road come tourney time.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: JD on January 23, 2012, 01:39:25 PM
This thread is getting hilarious now.  "My niece, says Vander is a punk"
My ex girlfriend told me Jae was creepy and kept telling her that he "loved her feet"

Seriously, are we really having a discussion like this about our players?

Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: PJDunn on January 23, 2012, 01:45:32 PM
This thread needs to be killed. Everytime I open up MUScoop...there it is.  Always nice to see some fine character assassination on a 19 year old kid.  Pretty sure someones idiot niece could have referred to me as a drunken punk oh so many years ago.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: APieperFan3 on January 23, 2012, 01:50:30 PM
This thread is getting hilarious now.  "My niece, says Vander is a punk"
My ex girlfriend told me Jae was creepy and kept telling her that he "loved her feet"

Seriously, are we really having a discussion like this about our players?



Does your ex know the difference between Jae Crowder and Rex Ryan?...thought that was his thing...
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: JD on January 23, 2012, 01:51:59 PM
Does your ex know the difference between Jae Crowder and Rex Ryan?...thought that was his thing...

Apparently it goes for Jae as well.
Title: Re: Vander disses Derrick Wilson for a slap of 5 on bench...
Post by: MU82 on January 23, 2012, 01:57:09 PM
My niece can beat up your niece. So there!