MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mu_hilltopper on October 12, 2011, 09:32:02 AM
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Sad day in Marquette history ..
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P51QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5023%2C2849265 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P51QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5023%2C2849265)
Edit: Damn newspaper archive not there anymore. This one..
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2020/07/15/marquette-changing-warriors-name-remains-hot-topic-26-years-later/5430200002/
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"Cords said the decision wasn't the result of pressure from Indian groups."
"The decision - which Cords attributed to unspecified university officials..."
Somebody should get a prison sentence for this atrocity!
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"Cords said the decision wasn't the result of pressure from Indian groups."
No, it was the result of pressure from Donna Shalala.
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"The decision - which Cords attributed to unspecified university officials..."
"Unspecified university officials". How courageous.
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"Unspecified university officials". How courageous.
Welcome to the DiUlio regime....where one man gets all the credit when things are going well, and the university hides behind a veil of secrecy otherwise.
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"Unspecified university officials". How courageous.
I was just going to simply say "Chainsaw Al".
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I'm blaming Royce Dam and his laborer's rugged hands.
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It's all Crean's doin'.
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Welcome to the DiUlio regime....where one man gets all the credit when things are going well, and the university hides behind a veil of secrecy otherwise.
Perfectly said.
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You see this in higher education all of the time. After the "grandfatherly" figure that ran the place for years, you hire someone who is going to kick-start the institution and knock it around a little. Face it, when Raynor left, MU was in trouble. Crime was a problem...enrollment took a hit...basketball was in shambles...
DiUlio did a couple of things that were very helpful for the University. He got basketball back on track....got rid of a lot of the blight on the campus borders, etc. But he was such a prick. On top of that, he hired a bunch of pricks to work for him.
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He was wrong on closin' the Ave. Shoulda recommended a 20 ft. gated fence around the campus instead.
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He was wrong on closin' the Ave. Shoulda recommended a 20 ft. gated fense around the campus instead.
Well, I remember one article where he said "We could either build a fence around the place or work to improve the neighborhood." They did the latter and it was a good choice. The neighborhood around campus is much better than it was 25 years ago when I was in school - it's still not great, but it's better.
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It's all Crean's doin'.
Crean wanted the name GOLD.
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I have never been able to confirm this but a well-connected alumnus once told me the whole thing was part of a deal DiUlio cut with the Potawatomi Indians. They owned the land where Valley Fields now stands. When DiUlio approached them about buying it, they said they would sell it if he changed the name.
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I'm blaming Royce Dam and his laborer's rugged hands.
This made me laugh.
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Help me remember.. I was probably too busy mackin chicks at the Wet Spot and learning to buy cars from Trebby.. but, I recall voting between GEs and Lightning... what I don't remember is if there were any open meetings, votes, etc... to get down to those two names. I remember thinking Hilltoppers would be OK with me if Warriors wasn't a possibility, but it wasn't an option.
I was too much of a young dip**** back then, but if I could rewind probably would have raised a little more hell that year. And would have purchased more Warriors attire.
At least we now have a spot for the lacrosse team to play. :/
Wish we could bring back Warriors, Grebe's on Wisconsin and Dahmer.
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Help me remember.. I was probably too busy mackin chicks at the Wet Spot and learning to buy cars from Trebby.. but, I recall voting between GEs and Lightning... what I don't remember is if there were any open meetings, votes, etc... to get down to those two names. I remember thinking Hilltoppers would be OK with me if Warriors wasn't a possibility, but it wasn't an option.
....
Wish we could bring back Warriors, Grebe's on Wisconsin and Dahmer.
Yeah, Lightning. The "alternative" that was alleged to be the other name that got the most votes. I remember being pissed off about that.
Grebe's: "You want butter on that sandwich, or extra butter?"
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Jay Bee, that is how I remember it, GE's vs. Lightning. There was even a rumor going around that Lightning prevailed, but that was just a rumor. Agree, if I was half as aware then I would have raised hell. I did vote for Lightning, but I was probably impaired shall we say.
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Yep, Bring back the WARRIORS, the good days, not Freakin' Golden Eagles. WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS, GOT IT! IT'S NOT THE
NAME OF A TRIBE. NEVER HAS BEEN.
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He was wrong on closin' the Ave. Shoulda recommended a 20 ft. gated fence around the campus instead.
Respectfully, you are simply in error. The 'SLU solution' would have been a major mistake. Part of the reason that MU has become more of a national draw was the decision to strongly support Avenues West. It's a very cool place to go to school now, in part because of the strength of the neighborhood.
And no disrespect to SLU. Their enviroment further from downtown probably dictated their 'fence' solution. But the campus has an island feeling as a result.
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Respectfully, you are simply in error. The 'SLU solution' would have been a major mistake. Part of the reason that MU has become more of a national draw was the decision to strongly support Avenues West. It's a very cool place to go to school now, in part because of the strength of the neighborhood.
And no disrespect to SLU. Their enviroment further from downtown probably dictated their 'fence' solution. But the campus has an island feeling as a result.
Fordham has a fence and their campus is much nicer than ours and so is their "national draw"
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Respectfully, you are simply in error. The 'SLU solution' would have been a major mistake. Part of the reason that MU has become more of a national draw was the decision to strongly support Avenues West. It's a very cool place to go to school now, in part because of the strength of the neighborhood.
And no disrespect to SLU. Their enviroment further from downtown probably dictated their 'fence' solution. But the campus has an island feeling as a result.
Agreed...I'd still like to see Wisconsin Ave. closed...probably in the minority on that one, but urban campuses can really offer a lot to students and the community.
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I was too much of a young dip**** back then, but if I could rewind probably would have raised a little more hell that year. And would have purchased more Warriors attire.
Hah, no kidding. Of course, I was probably too poor that point to stock up on Warriors gear to keep me through the next 50 years....
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I wonder how the guy pictured on the right hand side of column (Royce Dam) is doing these days.
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http://www.roycedam.com/
This is not a joke.
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Hah, no kidding. Of course, I was probably too poor that point to stock up on Warriors gear to keep me through the next 50 years....
No need when MUScoop has inside connections periodically selling them to us. ;)
DiUlio was all ego, but it was nice to go to the Sweet 16 (and the NIT Finals?) during his last years while at MU.
Re: previous posts, I miss Grebe's and the corner shop. *sigh*
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Anyone miss Dal's???????????
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Ouch! Only 20 years ago? I hate this change so much that it seems like its been a forty year hang nail.
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Jay Bee, that is how I remember it, GE's vs. Lightning. There was even a rumor going around that Lightning prevailed, but that was just a rumor. Agree, if I was half as aware then I would have raised hell. I did vote for Lightning, but I was probably impaired shall we say.
There were two votes as I recall. And wasn't "Spirit" one of the choices? I forget the other semi-finalist. Golden Eagles was a foregone conclusion. It was the talk of the athletic department before the "votes" were tallied.
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Im embarassed to admit that I remember being really excited when they revealed the Golden Eagle mascot and he skated around on roller blades. I thought he was awesome...then again I was 9. Mind you I also LOVED Bleuteaux as a child
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"Cords said the decision wasn't the result of pressure from Indian groups."
"The decision - which Cords attributed to unspecified university officials..."
Somebody should get a prison sentence for this atrocity!
Thanks for keeping things in perspective.
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Im embarassed to admit that I remember being really excited when they revealed the Golden Eagle mascot and he skated around on roller blades. I thought he was awesome...then again I was 9. Mind you I also LOVED Bleuteaux as a child
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/nickname/blueteaux.jpg?cache=&w=713&h=644)
Bleuteaux... couldn't tell if thats a muppet abortion or a blue snuffleupagus turd
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Mind you I also LOVED Bleuteaux as a child
After the canning of Bluteaux , I "volunteered" to play an "unofficial mascot" for 2 games in the 1990-91 season.
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Im embarassed to admit that I remember being really excited when they revealed the Golden Eagle mascot and he skated around on roller blades. I thought he was awesome...then again I was 9. Mind you I also LOVED Bleuteaux as a child
I've never heard a bigger chorus of boos. That was really an embarrassment.
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Sam Sauceda and the First Warrior really amped up the crowd, aina?
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I do not understand this unbridled hatred for Gold. I understand the unbridled hatred for getting rid of Warriors, I agree with it. But Gold is a far cooler name that Golden Eagles (Again Warriors is the preferred name but that is not going to happen).
Gold is unique No one else has the name Gold. Gold puts in with a select number of schools that use a color as their mascot. I like MU among this select list:
Stanford = Cardinal (its the color not the bird)
U of Chicago = Maroons
Harvard = Crimson
NYU = Violets
Syracuse = Orange
Cornell = Big Red
Denison = Big Red
Dartmouth = Big Green
I would rather be associated with the schools above than this list:
Cal State-L.A. Golden Eagles
Charleston (WV) Golden Eagles
Clarion Golden Eagles
John Brown University Golden Eagles
Oral Roberts Golden Eagles
Southern Miss Golden Eagles
SUNY Brockport Golden Eagles
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
Spaluding Golden Eagles
Charleston Golden Eagles
Northeastern Illinois Golden Eagles
La Sierra Golden Eagles
Cornerstone Golden Eagles
St. Joes - Long Island Golden Eagles
Minn - Cookson Golden Eagles
You guys blew it. We would be better off as Gold. Instead you all whined like Occupy Wall Street and made it worse. Thanks a lot!!
(and again! I'm not saying it's better than Warriors)
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20 years, an entire generation. Teach your children.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P51QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5023%2C2849265
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I wonder how the guy pictured on the right hand side of column (Royce Dam) is doing these days.
I just got off the phone with Royce. He is a bit hard of hearing but he has a fascinating story to tell. We shared our love of fly fishing and it turns out Royce is a Marine who served throughout the Pacific Campaign. Royce was in the 3rd wave to hit the beach at Iwo Jima - the wave when the Japanese defenders finally opened fire. Royce related that his unit took 80% casualties within the first 10 minutes of hitting the black sand. He mentioned that by the end of that first day his Platoon Leader was a Lance Corporal - everyone else in the chain of command was gone. Royce fought on Iwo for a week before finally catching a few. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and his war was over.
He said he was also on the front page of the last edition of the Milwaukee Sentinel, pictured with an American Flag. Unlike too many other nations, our military has always consisted of citizen soldiers like Royce who answered the call to duty, served with distinction, then returned to their civilian life. But while Royce left Iwo Jima it is clear that Iwo Jima never left him. God bless the Royce Dam's of this Republic.
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Jay Bee, that is how I remember it, GE's vs. Lightning. There was even a rumor going around that Lightning prevailed, but that was just a rumor. Agree, if I was half as aware then I would have raised hell. I did vote for Lightning, but I was probably impaired shall we say.
I had heard at the time from someone that should know (a trustee) that Warriors won in a write-in so the University took GE.
At the time I was so mad that I wrote in "PC a$$holes" and withheld my donation that year.
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This discussion made me go back to that link to see what else was going on that day. The other picture on the front page is the widow of my high school classmate who had just died in the Black Hawk Down mission. Dan Busch was another who answered the call to duty.
I just got off the phone with Royce. He is a bit hard of hearing but he has a fascinating story to tell. We shared our love of fly fishing and it turns out Royce is a Marine who served throughout the Pacific Campaign. Royce was in the 3rd wave to hit the beach at Iwo Jima - the wave when the Japanese defenders finally opened fire. Royce related that his unit took 80% casualties within the first 10 minutes of hitting the black sand. He mentioned that by the end of that first day his Platoon Leader was a Lance Corporal - everyone else in the chain of command was gone. Royce fought on Iwo for a week before finally catching a few. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and his war was over.
He said he was also on the front page of the last edition of the Milwaukee Sentinel, pictured with an American Flag. Unlike too many other nations, our military has always consisted of citizen soldiers like Royce who answered the call to duty, served with distinction, then returned to their civilian life. But while Royce left Iwo Jima it is clear that Iwo Jima never left him. God bless the Royce Dam's of this Republic.
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I did the same Larrym.
Saw this MUBB treasure in the sports section:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P51QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4249%2C2909338
I remember he was coming to campus with hype. Cuse was supposeldy after him but for his other talents.
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I did the same Larrym.
Saw this MUBB treasure in the sports section:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=P51QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=AxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4249%2C2909338
I remember he was coming to campus with hype. Cuse was supposeldy after him but for his other talents.
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I gotta ask if you knew this great Pinoy in McCormick named Mark Afable. Fr Rick Abert got us together to give us the "Have you considered becoming a Jesuit?" talk when Mark commented, "You know Fr, being a Jesuit sounds great but there's this one little thing I'm not sure I can give up..." Even Rick laughed. Mark was one of the nicest guys I met at Marquette.
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I gotta ask if you knew this great Pinoy in McCormick named Mark Afable. Fr Rick Abert got us together to give us the "Have you considered becoming a Jesuit?" talk when Mark commented, "You know Fr, being a Jesuit sounds great but there's this one little thing I'm not sure I can give up..." Even Rick laughed. Mark was one of the nicest guys I met at Marquette.
I know Mark. Good guy. He's an attorney for American Family (Corporate side) in Madison.
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I know Mark. Good guy. He's an attorney for American Family (Corporate side) in Madison.
Glad to hear he's done well. He was a very genuine person back in the day. Seems he couldn't get over that one little thing, though.
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Sorry, Keefe.
Sounds like he was before my time (AS '97).
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Sorry, Keefe.
Sounds like he was before my time (AS '97).
Hey, you never know. Afable was a great guy. Made the year in McCormick more bearable. I'm not surprised he did well, though. Mark was a very high character individual. His parents reared him well. Not many API's at Marquette, bro.
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Mark is doing well well in life.. Had dinner with him and his wife recently...Yea,Somethings he couldn't give up for sure. 4 kids... ;-)
1 grad from MU.. 1 at MU now.. IIRC one at Miami of OH.. The last still in HS... Great family..
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Fordham has a fence and their campus is much nicer than ours and so is their "national draw"
Might also have something to do with the fact that Fordham is almost 50 spots higher in the US News Rankings than SLU (take the rankings for what they are, but perception is often reality), and Fordham is in New York City, while SLU is in Saint Freaking Louis, Missouri.
Having graduated from Marquette and SLU Law, I must say the "Island" effect is jarring at SLU. Campus is 2.5 to 3 miles from the Arch and downtown St. Louis, and while it is an extremely well-manicured campus with statues and artificial ponds, the neighborhood goes south REAL fast once you get two blocks out in pretty much any direction.
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"Lightning" or "Spirit" would have sucked far worse than "Golden Eagles".
Those are names you give an Arena Football team.
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"Lightning" was the name of the slow moving janitor in the "Amos and Andy" TV series. Not sure it would have passed the PC test either.
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"Lighting" (sic) or "Spirit" would have sucked far worse than "Golden Eagles".
Those are names you give an Arena Football team.
...and an expansion hockey team. Tampa Bay had been added within the last year or two when MU floated out Lightning to us. So "creative".
Do others remember where they voted? I'm having memories now of the dorm cafeteria having the ballots. I made my votes, ate, then puked due to the idea of moving away from Warriors as the official nickname.
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...Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?
Sorry...that's the first thing that came to mind.
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Might also have something to do with the fact that Fordham is almost 50 spots higher in the US News Rankings than SLU (take the rankings for what they are, but perception is often reality), and Fordham is in New York City, while SLU is in Saint Freaking Louis, Missouri.
Having graduated from Marquette and SLU Law, I must say the "Island" effect is jarring at SLU. Campus is 2.5 to 3 miles from the Arch and downtown St. Louis, and while it is an extremely well-manicured campus with statues and artificial ponds, the neighborhood goes south REAL fast once you get two blocks out in pretty much any direction.
Fordham is in the Bronx. I haven't been there in a long time, but last time I was there the neighborhood surrounding it was horrendous. And not two blocks out...right outside the gates.
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Marquette shouldn't have a fence. A fence sends completely the wrong message about how the campus should interact with its community.
Furthermore any problem with crime related to the campus generally occurs blocks off campus where a fence wouldn't exist anyway. On campus there isn't a crime problem - or at least one that is significantly different than most campuses.
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Marquette shouldn't have a fence. A fence sends completely the wrong message about how the campus should interact with its community.
Furthermore any problem with crime related to the campus generally occurs blocks off campus where a fence wouldn't exist anyway. On campus there isn't a crime problem - or at least one that is significantly different than most campuses.
Dahmer
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it is an extremely well-manicured campus with statues and artificial ponds, the neighborhood goes south REAL fast once you get two blocks out in pretty much any direction.
Sounds like it goes south real fast once you get two blocks in campus...
(http://foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/100405_statues4.jpg)
One can only wonder about this one...
(http://foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/100405_statues5.jpg)
(http://foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/100405_statues8.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Belvedere_Castle,_Central_Park.jpg)
(http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/attachments/main-forum/7627d1157593646-new-koikeeper-new-pond-questions-gnome-island.jpg)
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Dahmer
I think you are proving my point.
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I do not understand this unbridled hatred for Gold. I understand the unbridled hatred for getting rid of Warriors, I agree with it. But Gold is a far cooler name that Golden Eagles (Again Warriors is the preferred name but that is not going to happen).
Gold is unique No one else has the name Gold. Gold puts in with a select number of schools that use a color as their mascot. I like MU among this select list:
Stanford = Cardinal (its the color not the bird)
U of Chicago = Maroons
Harvard = Crimson
NYU = Violets
Syracuse = Orange
Cornell = Big Red
Denison = Big Red
Dartmouth = Big Green
I would rather be associated with the schools above than this list:
Cal State-L.A. Golden Eagles
Charleston (WV) Golden Eagles
Clarion Golden Eagles
John Brown University Golden Eagles
Oral Roberts Golden Eagles
Southern Miss Golden Eagles
SUNY Brockport Golden Eagles
Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles
Spaluding Golden Eagles
Charleston Golden Eagles
Northeastern Illinois Golden Eagles
La Sierra Golden Eagles
Cornerstone Golden Eagles
St. Joes - Long Island Golden Eagles
Minn - Cookson Golden Eagles
You guys blew it. We would be better off as Gold. Instead you all whined like Occupy Wall Street and made it worse. Thanks a lot!!
(and again! I'm not saying it's better than Warriors)
Although, the Universities you list above are associated with colors, they aren't used like the Golden Eagles is. Harvard is Harvard. All Ivy's are associated with a color.
Now, although Dartmouth is the Big Green their unofficial mascot is Keggy the Keg (one of the most brilliant mascots of all time). Cornell is the Big Red Bears, NYU adopted the Bobcat, U. Chicago the Phoenix... for sporting purposes they still have all adopted a mascot.
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Although, the Universities you list above are associated with colors, they aren't used like the Golden Eagles is. Harvard is Harvard. All Ivy's are associated with a color.
Now, although Dartmouth is the Big Green their unofficial mascot is Keggy the Keg (one of the most brilliant mascots of all time). Cornell is the Big Red Bears, NYU adopted the Bobcat, U. Chicago the Phoenix... for sporting purposes they still have all adopted a mascot.
There is no more thrilling moment in the cavalcade of sport than when Scrotie takes to the ice to fire up the RISD faithful...GO NADS!!!
(http://assets.boardingschoolwizard.com/uploaded/scrotie.jpg)
(http://www.narragansettbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Nads_vs_Clams_Flyer-e1326467746741.jpg)
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Although, the Universities you list above are associated with colors, they aren't used like the Golden Eagles is. Harvard is Harvard. All Ivy's are associated with a color.
Now, although Dartmouth is the Big Green their unofficial mascot is Keggy the Keg (one of the most brilliant mascots of all time). Cornell is the Big Red Bears, NYU adopted the Bobcat, U. Chicago the Phoenix... for sporting purposes they still have all adopted a mascot.
Not true ...
Princeton is the Tigers
Yale is the Bulldogs
Penn is the Quakers
Columbia is the Lions
Brown is the (brown) Bears
The rest are colors
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Not true ...
Princeton is the Tigers
Yale is the Bulldogs
Penn is the Quakers
Columbia is the Lions
Brown is the (brown) Bears
The rest are colors
Actually, G, you are both correct. Each Ivy is associated wit a distinct color that is used in a variety of applications (Rep Ties, Blazers, Ivy League Club Locker Name Tags, kitsch, etc...) But only 3 of the schools use the color for team id.
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Not true ...
Princeton is the Tigers
Yale is the Bulldogs
Penn is the Quakers
Columbia is the Lions
Brown is the (brown) Bears
The rest are colors
Keefe answered it, but to add the colors to the above:
Princeton-Orange
Yale--- Color actually Yale Blue
Penn--- The Red and Blue (was originally the nickname/mascot)
Columbia--- Color actually Columbia Blue
Brown--- Brown (note Cornell is also the Big Red Bears)
Some officially adopted additional nicknames (i.e. Penn) whereas some just left it unofficial. The difference between these cases though and MU (gold) is that there was a long standing tradition of the colors having symbolic meaning that persists today (some of the shades are officially referenced by the University...aka Yale Blue, Columbia Blue and Harvard Crimson.
The colors of many Universities in part come from the Universities first president (and the Ivy league school they came from) or from an indication of their high standard of education (chosen IVY colors to reflect high standard). In that regard, the colors establish reputation and honor. Gold has no symbolic meaning to MU or Milwaukee/Wisconsin so it would be simply strange.
In fact, when I think Gold, I think California Gold and Berkeley...(whose other color is ...Yale Blue).
I would rather have us be officially just...Marquette.
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Maybe Bob Costas can weigh in....maybe someone will care that Bob Costas weighed in
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/nickname/mu_indian_vectorized.png?cache=)
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Sam Sauceda can weigh in
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I just got off the phone with Royce. He is a bit hard of hearing but he has a fascinating story to tell. We shared our love of fly fishing and it turns out Royce is a Marine who served throughout the Pacific Campaign. Royce was in the 3rd wave to hit the beach at Iwo Jima - the wave when the Japanese defenders finally opened fire. Royce related that his unit took 80% casualties within the first 10 minutes of hitting the black sand. He mentioned that by the end of that first day his Platoon Leader was a Lance Corporal - everyone else in the chain of command was gone. Royce fought on Iwo for a week before finally catching a few. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and his war was over.
He said he was also on the front page of the last edition of the Milwaukee Sentinel, pictured with an American Flag. Unlike too many other nations, our military has always consisted of citizen soldiers like Royce who answered the call to duty, served with distinction, then returned to their civilian life. But while Royce left Iwo Jima it is clear that Iwo Jima never left him. God bless the Royce Dam's of this Republic.
I watched The Pacific over the summer. Great story on John Vassilione who ended up dieing on Iwo.
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Keeping the candle lit.
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Change it back to Warriors or lets start using golden eagles a lil more??
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Huh?
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Huh?
Just annoying how everyone uses warriors when the team isn't actually called that. I'm all for changing it back but it just sucks how we all hate golden eagles
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Why on earth would you find it annoying that people use the name Warriors? It's the administrations own fault for picking such a stupid name that nobody likes. We don't have to accept it. Let's go Warriors!
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Why on earth would you find it annoying that people use the name Warriors? It's the administrations own fault for picking such a stupid name that nobody likes. We don't have to accept it. Let's go Warriors!
Right everyone hates the name. It's annoying to me that we all hate the name the team is actually called. I wish we would get a name we like.
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I wish we would get a name we like.
Something like, "Warriors?" Great idea!
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I just got off the phone with Royce. He is a bit hard of hearing but he has a fascinating story to tell. We shared our love of fly fishing and it turns out Royce is a Marine who served throughout the Pacific Campaign. Royce was in the 3rd wave to hit the beach at Iwo Jima - the wave when the Japanese defenders finally opened fire. Royce related that his unit took 80% casualties within the first 10 minutes of hitting the black sand. He mentioned that by the end of that first day his Platoon Leader was a Lance Corporal - everyone else in the chain of command was gone. Royce fought on Iwo for a week before finally catching a few. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and his war was over.
He said he was also on the front page of the last edition of the Milwaukee Sentinel, pictured with an American Flag. Unlike too many other nations, our military has always consisted of citizen soldiers like Royce who answered the call to duty, served with distinction, then returned to their civilian life. But while Royce left Iwo Jima it is clear that Iwo Jima never left him. God bless the Royce Dam's of this Republic.
Semper Fi, Mr. Royce. Any Jarhead that survived Iwo Jima was a hero.
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Something like, "Warriors?" Great idea!
Changing the name from Warriors was a pile of bull dung. Absolutely a stupid and PC pile of horse crap combined with a mixture of bull dung and pig slop.
They will always be the Warriors and any PC girly name they come up with is automatically relegated to the dung heap. That is a rule of life.
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Wish they would've gone the Golden State route minus the stupid cartoon mascot. Make it more of a trojan warrior. Would anyone have cared?
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Could probably still go back to Hilltoppers and people would be complacent.
"Golden Eagles" is in your face stupid. An insult to anybody's intelligence.
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It says A LOT when you have a majority of alumni (recent and far) still referring to the team as Warriors. It says even more when you have national broadcasters and commentators (on live TV), such as Gus Johnson, Bill Raferty, Dick Vitale, Dan Dakich and Bobby Knight still refer to the team as Warriors.
You can remove the name from shirts, hats, mugs, pennants and jerseys, but you will not take our name away! Freedom! Freedom!
(grabs pitchfork, runs and goes to march down Wisconsin Ave...)
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Maybe Bob Costas can weigh in....maybe someone will care that Bob Costas weighed in
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/nickname/mu_indian_vectorized.png?cache=)
How about changing the name to Redskins Warriors. I am sure the PC crowd will all be red faced at that suggestion!
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I was peeved when it happened but seriously it's time to move on....
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Hard to believe a dead horse has been beaten for 20+ straight years.
Don't know if I feel more sorry for the horse's carcass or the ones holding the whip.
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Hard to believe a dead horse has been beaten for 20+ straight years.
Don't know if I feel more sorry for the horse's carcass or the ones holding the whip.
The horse has never been anywhere close to dead.
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Hard to believe a dead horse has been beaten for 20+ straight years.
Don't know if I feel more sorry for the horse's carcass or the ones holding the whip.
+1
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You know who cares about this? Alum who went to MU 20+ years ago.
You know who doesn't care about this? The vast majority of current students and alum from < 20 years ago.
It was a stupid decision to change it, but man, the issue is dead. Bunch of crotchety old farts on this message board...
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7400000/Old-Man-Yells-At-Cloud-the-simpsons-7414384-265-199.gif)
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The horse has never been anywhere close to dead.
To anyone who matters, it's been dead for a long, long time.
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You know who cares about this? Alum who went to MU 20+ years ago.
You know who doesn't care about this? The vast majority of current students and alum from < 20 years ago.
It was a stupid decision to change it, but man, the issue is dead. Bunch of crotchety old farts on this message board...
As one of those alums who went to MU 20+ years ago, I couldn't agree more. The majority of people I still keep in touch with from my time at MU agree that 1) it was a dumb and unnecessary decision and 2) it's never changing back.
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It says A LOT when you have a majority of alumni (recent and far) still referring to the team as Warriors.
I don't believe this at all.
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As someone who went to Marquette 20+ years ago, I wish we could go back to Warriors. But we aren't. I can't get that upset about it any longer. It's just a nickname.
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"Cords said the decision wasn't the result of pressure from Indian groups."
Cords went on to say "The pressure was all internal deciding on whether to keep the nickname or take that sweet, sweet bribe from the Potowatomi."
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Something like, "Warriors?" Great idea!
Precisely l!
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Wish they would've gone the Golden State route minus the stupid cartoon mascot. Make it more of a trojan warrior. Would anyone have cared?
Exactly what I was thinking. Have the logo be some roman warrior with a shield and spear. Personally get calls from Rome complaining, but did we even ask eagles if was ok to use their name?
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The horse has never been anywhere close to dead.
Agreed, and anybody trying to move on is not a true Warrior.
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Funny enough when I selected MU I was so confused by the nickname cause all the older family friends were calling me a warrior but all the gear said golden eagles that I just started saying we were the golden warriors.
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I watched The Pacific over the summer. Great story on John Vassilione who ended up dieing on Iwo.
Sorry--it is Basilone--any true marine knows that. Won 2 MOH's. Some great DevilDogs were:
Chesty Puller--5 Navy Crosses (He wasn't PC enough for MOH) Famous quote when his troops were surrounded on three sides by ChiComs in Korea at the Frozen Chosin "Those poor bastards, we have them right where we want them, we can attack in any direction"
John Basilone
Mike Red Edson (Not to be confused with a commie)
Smedley Butler (what a name)
Sorry forgot one:
Howland "Howling Mad" Smith who wrote the book on amphibious landings for USMC in World War II and commanded the Marine assault of Iwo Jima of which he said "Where uncommon valor was a common virtue"
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As an alum who graduated 20+ years ago, we will always be the Warriors and nothing else. Will never understand why we didn't change to a different type of warrior instead of caving in to non-existent pressure.
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Agreed, and anybody trying to move on is not a true Warrior.
Just a bunch of slurpers.
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Agreed, and anybody trying to move on is not a true Warrior.
The True Warrior Police have spoken.
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The True Warrior Police have spoken.
Yessir, and we have plenty of "true police" on this board.
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I graduated in 2007, and except for the week when we were the Gold, I practically never saw or heard the bird mentioned on campus. Thus, I have to conclude that either we are still the most recent nickname or that we don't have one.
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As a recent alum, I am happy with Golden Eagles. Would Warriors be cooler? Yeah. But it's never happening and that's our own fault. Shouldn't have made a mascot as racist as Willie Wampum.
It's long past time to move on. When your leader makes a decision you don't like (provided its not unethical) you swallow your pride, move on, and try to make the best of it. Continuing to gripe and moan just makes us look bad.
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As a recent alum, I am happy with Golden Eagles. Would Warriors be cooler? Yeah. But it's never happening and that's our own fault. Shouldn't have made a mascot as racist as Willie Wampum.
It's long past time to move on. When your leader makes a decision you don't like (provided its not unethical) you swallow your pride, move on, and try to make the best of it. Continuing to gripe and moan just makes us look bad.
Bingo
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You know who cares about this? Alum who went to MU 20+ years ago.
You know who doesn't care about this? The vast majority of current students and alum from < 20 years ago.
It was a stupid decision to change it, but man, the issue is dead. Bunch of crotchety old farts on this message board...
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7400000/Old-Man-Yells-At-Cloud-the-simpsons-7414384-265-199.gif)
During the post-Gold-fiasco vote, I had an opportunity to ask Diener - then a pro with the Pacers - which name he voted for. He said, "Golden Eagles, of course. We went to the Final Four as the Golden Eagles. I was a Golden Eagle. I will always be a Golden Eagle."
I'm an old dude, and I was a Warrior, but you are exactly right. For pretty much everybody associated with the program for the last two decades, Golden Eagles is what they know.
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Yes, and someday we will taste the unfathomable sadness in the tears of the Golden Eagle alums/fans when we change back to Warriors.
(http://i.imgur.com/qDyemsO.gif)
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When your leader makes a decision you don't like (provided its not unethical) you swallow your pride, move on, and try to make the best of it.
This is known as being a lemming.
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During the post-Gold-fiasco vote, I had an opportunity to ask Diener - then a pro with the Pacers - which name he voted for. He said, "Golden Eagles, of course. We went to the Final Four as the Golden Eagles. I was a Golden Eagle. I will always be a Golden Eagle."
I'm an old dude, and I was a Warrior, but you are exactly right. For pretty much everybody associated with the program for the last two decades, Golden Eagles is what they know.
Yeah, it is what it is. I'm an old f*rt from back when and I'm a Warrior deep down in my heart. But, the name just ain't comin back folks.
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This is known as being a lemming.
So, besides b*tiching about it on the Internet, what exactly are you doing to fight the power and get Warriors reinstated?
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As a recent alum, I am happy with Golden Eagles. Would Warriors be cooler? Yeah. But it's never happening and that's our own fault. Shouldn't have made a mascot as racist as Willie Wampum.
It's long past time to move on. When your leader makes a decision you don't like (provided its not unethical) you swallow your pride, move on, and try to make the best of it. Continuing to gripe and moan just makes us look bad.
Willie Wampum was banned over 20 years prior to the name change. If that was given as the reason behind the change, it's the slowest reaction in history. The school could have moved away from the Native American imagery and been fine. Golden Eagles is just so bland.
And yes, I'm well aware the school will never go back to Warriors, which sucks.
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This is known as being a lemming.
Or a good solider. Or making the best of a bad situation.
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Willie Wampum was banned over 20 years prior to the name change. If that was given as the reason behind the change, it's the slowest reaction in history. The school could have moved away from the Native American imagery and been fine. Golden Eagles is just so bland.
I 100% agree. Rather than own up to what we had done in the past, we attempted to sweep it under the rug. It's embarrassing really. We should have taken the opportunity to formally apologize for Willie Wampum, changed the imagery to Graeco-Roman, and educate our students why we had to change the imagery. It would have been an amazing opportunity to have educational conversations on past racism and make forward progress. Instead we tried to bury the past and pretend it never happened. The reaction was along the same lines that a small child would have.
That being said, it as twenty years ago. We have a new name. Rather than tearing ourselves down by saying how dumb it is, let's try to pride and support our alma mater.
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That ship sailed so long ago it was around with the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria. (Columbus Day) And it isn't coming back.
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MU got $$$ --> the name went away. Pretty easy.
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During the post-Gold-fiasco vote, I had an opportunity to ask Diener - then a pro with the Pacers - which name he voted for. He said, "Golden Eagles, of course. We went to the Final Four as the Golden Eagles. I was a Golden Eagle. I will always be a Golden Eagle."
I'm an old dude, and I was a Warrior, but you are exactly right. For pretty much everybody associated with the program for the last two decades, Golden Eagles is what they know.
Diener really knows that he is a Warrior. Just wants to remain PC.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Have the logo be some roman warrior with a shield and spear. Personally get calls from Rome complaining, but did we even ask eagles if was ok to use their name?
I still think the best Warrior solution I have heard is Joan of Arc for a mascot. It's unique, non-Native American (kids could wear Knights armor instead of feathers), relates to both the religious tradition of the school and a landmark campus building, and would give us the distinction of being the only, and correct me if I'm wrong, major school with a female figure as lead mascot.
But like others have said, I think the Warrior ship has sailed, unfortunately.
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As an alum who graduated 20+ years ago, we will always be the Warriors and nothing else. Will never understand why we didn't change to a different type of warrior instead of caving in to non-existent pressure.
WHAT THIS GUY SAID!!!!!
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I still think the best Warrior solution I have heard is Joan of Arc for a mascot.
That may have been my idea. I wanted us called the "Flames." Guess what we could do to a cheerleader at halftime!
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(http://www.campusexplorer.com/media/560x420/Marquette-University-BB075FE6.jpg)
I don't see no frickin Golden Eagle
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(http://www.campusexplorer.com/media/560x420/Marquette-University-BB075FE6.jpg)
I don't see no frickin Golden Eagle
I do see a Native American being told the direction to row the boat...
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During the post-Gold-fiasco vote, I had an opportunity to ask Diener - then a pro with the Pacers - which name he voted for. He said, "Golden Eagles, of course. We went to the Final Four as the Golden Eagles. I was a Golden Eagle. I will always be a Golden Eagle."
I'm an old dude, and I was a Warrior, but you are exactly right. For pretty much everybody associated with the program for the last two decades, Golden Eagles is what they know.
Diener was on local television at the time rallying for Warriors (his eligibility having ended), so I'm going to call BS on this.
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I still think the best Warrior solution I have heard is Joan of Arc for a mascot. It's unique, non-Native American (kids could wear Knights armor instead of feathers), relates to both the religious tradition of the school and a landmark campus building, and would give us the distinction of being the only, and correct me if I'm wrong, major school with a female figure as lead mascot.
Let's not copy Notre Dame…that short, ugly ginger irish chick with the beard and pipe in green knickers is an embarrassment to that school...
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I do see a Native American being told the direction to row the boat...
Exactly. The braintrust can bleach away the Warrior mascot whose imagery could have taken on a number of non-offensive symbols to make their political statement, but leaves that subservient imagery on its official seal. #hypocrisy
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It's just a nickname.
And Audrey Hepburn was just a woman...
(http://media3.onsugar.com/files/2011/10/43/2/192/1922283/e3a8701204ee3df5_FINAL-Holly-Golightly/i/Holly-Golightly-Breakfast-Tiffany.jpg)
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Found this recent article from the Marquette Journal.
http://marquettewire.org/2014/02/06/journal/latest-issue/college-life/mascot-madness/
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Diener was on local television at the time rallying for Warriors (his eligibility having ended), so I'm going to call BS on this.
I don't give a $hit whether you believe me or not. I was there and you weren't.
Go write a bunch more comments about how hiring Wojo would doom us to never getting any good recruits.
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Diener was anti-Gold, but has always been behind the Golden Eagle.
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The alumns that are all up in arms don't realize that the world has passed them by.
If you were 22 twenty one years ago you are 43 today. Add a decade and you are 53. Add two and you are 63 YEARS OLD.
The fight is over. Marquette was on the right side of history. And that's what leadership is about.
Ring Out Ahoya
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The alumns that are all up in arms don't realize that the world has passed them by.
If you were 22 twenty one years ago you are 43 today. Add a decade and you are 53. Add two and you are 63 YEARS OLD.
The fight is over. Marquette was on the right side of history. And that's what leadership is about.
Ring Out Ahoya
Sorry buckwheat, you are wrong.
GO WARRIORS!!!! ;)
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Sorry buckwheat, you are wrong.
GO WARRIORS!!!! ;)
You're funny, old man. Check back in when the name is changed back to Warriors.
Let me know when it happens.
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Diener was anti-Gold, but has always been behind the Golden Eagle.
Travis Diener, prefers Warriors. Chicago Tribune
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-08/sports/0503080280_1_marquette-career-travis-diener-basketball-court
"It is not the way the great Warriors' warrior--yes, Diener prefers Marquette's former nickname, Warriors, to the current Golden Eagles--would have chosen to end it."
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The alumns that are all up in arms don't realize that the world has passed them by.
If you were 22 twenty one years ago you are 43 today. Add a decade and you are 53. Add two and you are 63 YEARS OLD.
The fight is over. Marquette was on the right side of history. And that's what leadership is about.
Ring Out Ahoya
Wrong side of history. Right side of history. Overused by both sides. Go Warriors
(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2013/12/05/05-right-wrong-side-of-history.w529.h352.2x.jpg)
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Let's not copy Notre Dame…that short, ugly ginger irish chick with the beard and pipe in green knickers is an embarrassment to that school...
Errr... what? I don't follow you.
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It was a dry joke…implying that the annoying little N.D. leprechaun mascot that runs around football and basketball games is really a woman. I fear we are losing the intensity of the rivalry with N.D. that I enjoyed in the early 80s at MU….just trying to be a smart ass and honor that tradition.
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It was a dry joke…implying that the annoying little N.D. leprechaun mascot that runs around football and basketball games is really a woman. I fear we are losing the intensity of the rivalry with N.D. that I enjoyed in the early 80s at MU….just trying to be a smart ass and honor that tradition.
I can't believe you had to explain that. Hilarious! I thought your post could have been in the Superbar post of Who's got a good joke I can use tonight.....
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24382.0
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I don't give a $hit whether you believe me or not. I was there and you weren't.
Go write a bunch more comments about how hiring Wojo would doom us to never getting any good recruits.
I remember a conversation I had with Don Kojis in which he declared the moon was made of green cheese.
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I don't give a $hit whether you believe me or not. I was there and you weren't.
Go write a bunch more comments about how hiring Wojo would doom us to never getting any good recruits.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Marquette should have dropped the native imagery when they dropped willie. Had they done that, instead of finding a "respectable" way of depicting natives, Marquette would still be the Warriors. Really trying to do the "right thing" is why Warriors is gone now.
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I don't think the recent alums have an attachment to Golden Eagles, and I don't think they would object to a change to Warriors. In fact, there will always be a vocal minority of current students that advocate for the Warrior simply because it's rebellion against the man and that's what college students do.
Having said that, Warriors is unfortunately never coming back. Hell, it couldn't even win the Meme Tournament.
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I remember a conversation I had with Don Kojis in which he declared the moon was made of green cheese.
Kojis was and is a legend at MU. Arguably the best in MU history. So that makes him exactly right. How do you know it is not made of green cheese? And you know that nobody has ever landed on the moon to prove differently...or was that a movie?
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That may have been my idea. I wanted us called the "Flames." Guess what we could do to a cheerleader at halftime!
Can't do that. Flames; name already taken by James Brown's backup singers. The Famous Flames. One of them always threw the royal robe on James when going to his knees screeching "Please..please..please..don't go." Besides, that would be considered discriminatory.
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I do see a Native American being told the direction to row the boat...
You see a Jesuit directing an Indian which way to row the canoe. I see a Jesuit pointing to the Indian saying "He da man"
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Kojis was and is a legend at MU. Arguably the best in MU history. So that makes him exactly right. How do you know it is not made of green cheese? And you know that nobody has ever landed on the moon to prove differently...or was that a movie?
slurp slurp
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Diener was on local television at the time rallying for Warriors (his eligibility having ended), so I'm going to call BS on this.
Exactly as I said. Diener is a true warrior.
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Exactly as I said. Diener is a true warrior.
"It is not the way the great Warriors' warrior--yes, Diener prefers Marquette's former nickname, Warriors, to the current Golden Eagles--would have chosen to end it."
-- Chicago Tribune....good to see. I'd expect nothing less.
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We are the Marquette Warriors. If a youngster doesn't understand this, chalk it up to ignorance, youth or being a slurper.
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nm. got posted, then split.
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Keeping the vigil. Bump.
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Go Warriors.
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#neverforget
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Once Warriors, always Warriors, ai na?
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Once Warriors, always Warriors, ai na?
I was thinking more like the Gold.
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You are either a Warrior or a Golden Eagle and that's OK. Like most Warriors, I always thought Golden Eagles was pretty lame along with being PO'd about how the name was changed in the first place. This past summer however, I had the good fortune to watch some real golden eagles doing their thing from atop the bluff at Devils Lake and realized that these are some pretty cool, impressive animals, not at all 'lame'. No, Golden Eagles is not very original and old Warriors will probably always feel it lacks the swagger we once had, but the mental visual I now have of these majestic birds has given this old Warrior a fresh perspective. Nothing builds swagger like a trip to the F4, so let's just do it.
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It is kind of funny to hear announcers like Greg Gumble, Bill Raftery and Gus Johnson still refer to us as the Warriors. Makes it hard to move on when you have iconic announcers still bring up the glory days of the past.
I don't think I have ever heard St. Johns, in the past 10 years, be referred to as the Redmen. Obviously, that is way worse, but still.
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...Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?
Sorry...that's the first thing that came to mind.
This is outstanding!!!
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This past summer however, I had the good fortune to watch some real golden eagles doing their thing from atop the bluff at Devils Lake and realized that these are some pretty cool, impressive animals, not at all 'lame'.
We need to be the first team to just use a real photograph of the mascot. The cartoon Southern Miss rip-off makes it lame.
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As a recent alum, I am happy with Golden Eagles. Would Warriors be cooler? Yeah. But it's never happening and that's our own fault. Shouldn't have made a mascot as racist as Willie Wampum.
It's long past time to move on. When your leader makes a decision you don't like (provided its not unethical) you swallow your pride, move on, and try to make the best of it. Continuing to gripe and moan just makes us look bad.
nm
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It is kind of funny to hear announcers like Greg Gumble, Bill Raftery and Gus Johnson still refer to us as the Warriors. Makes it hard to move on when you have iconic announcers still bring up the glory days of the past.
You don't "move on." You build. You should always remember who you are and that starts with where you came from.
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You don't "move on." You build. You should always remember who you are and that starts with where you came from.
Let's go back to Hilltoppers (I'd actually prefer it over Golden Eagles).
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Let's go back to Hilltoppers (I'd actually prefer it over Golden Eagles).
Hey that would be OK with me. At least it has roots in our past and is somewhat unique. "Golden Eagles" was uninspiring and "Lightning" was very XFL-ish.
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You don't "move on." You build. You should always remember who you are and that starts with where you came from.
HMMMMM.... sounds like branding to me
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Yep, Bring back the WARRIORS, the good days, not Freakin' Golden Eagles. WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS WARRIORS, GOT IT! IT'S NOT THE
NAME OF A TRIBE. NEVER HAS BEEN.
What he said
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Not again???!!!!!
The Warrior has been banished. He's too male, too belligerent and too non-PC for today's world. I'm surprised we still play basketball, as it is a contest and not a love-in. It unleashes emotions and causes us, at times, to have belligerent feelings about other groups of people (our opposition).
We needed to go to a Golden Eagle. The eagle elicits none of these feelings. She just preys on fish and other miscreant animals because she has not learned the joy of consuming vegetables, yet. She's a proud bird, which may result in problems with the PC crowd because we're not supposed to be prideful.
Anyone for a sparrow as a mascot?
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IT'S STILL WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS, FREAKIN' EGOLDEN EAGLES IS A kitten NAME.
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To me, we will always be the Warriors.
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TO GOOOO MARQUETTE--- WE ARE MARQUETTE1
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We need to be the first team to just use a real photograph of the mascot. The cartoon Southern Miss rip-off makes it lame.
+1
Sucks that we ripped off their name/mascot.
I suppose the only thing that would make the situation worse is if Southern Miss changed their name to Warriors.
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+1
Sucks that we ripped off their name/mascot.
I suppose the only thing that would make the situation worse is if Southern Miss changed their name to Warriors.
I might have shared this before, but my family may be the only one in the U.S. that has alums from three D1 schools whose nickname is the Golden Eagles. If I can only convince one of my nieces to go to Oral Roberts, we would have all of them covered.
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One more year closer to everyone moving on
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One more year closer to everyone moving on
You spelled "passing away" wrong.
I've said it before and i'll say it again...i have friends who refer to MU grads as either Warriors or Golden Eagles depending on how the grad is perceived (Warrior > GE).
As an '88 alum and Warrior i'm one year closer to moving on...
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Never moving on
Blasts from the past
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2005_05_29_marquettebasketball_archive.html
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A golden eagle isn't even the coolest bird called an "eagle."
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+1
Sucks that we ripped off their name/mascot.
I suppose the only thing that would make the situation worse is if Southern Miss changed their name to Warriors.
lol Just conjuring up the prospect hurts.
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One more year closer to everyone moving on
One thing I think some people don't understand. It really wasn't just about the name.
It really was about a University administration that let not just the basketball program wither on the vine due to neglect, but also the University itself. And then when Kevin O'Neill came in to resurrect the program, the past was almost white-washed away. As if they were apologizing for something that didn't need to be apologized for.
It is not an understatement that the late 80s and early 90s were the darkest days in the University's history - the basketball was bad, enrollment was struggling, the neighborhood was closing in. Raynor was a great man who stuck around too long. DiUlio was a complete disaster. The Golden Eagles debacle was the capstone on that putrid era.
Due to Father Wild and his team, the University has grown from that time. The basketball is good. The academics are much better. Student demand is great. The Warrior name is the one mistake that hasn't been corrected.
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A golden eagle isn't even the coolest bird called an "eagle."
Enlighten us. I recall a video (perhaps earlier in this thread... I didn't check) posted by Chick showing a pretty bad ass golden eagle taking down (literally) some prey with malicious intent.
EDIT: Ah ha... found it.
https://www.youtube.com/e/XafAdkZIYKA
BTW - How has a student not CGI'd a badger or bulldog into this video by now? All the hack videos out there, and nothing from our future of society?!?
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Oh hell.... why not.
http://www.oddee.com/item_96800.aspx
Enjoy. Be thankful. And next time MU allows us to choose a mascot, let's have some fun with it.
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One thing I think some people don't understand. It really wasn't just about the name.
It really was about a University administration that let not just the basketball program wither on the vine due to neglect, but also the University itself. And then when Kevin O'Neill came in to resurrect the program, the past was almost white-washed away. As if they were apologizing for something that didn't need to be apologized for.
It is not an understatement that the late 80s and early 90s were the darkest days in the University's history - the basketball was bad, enrollment was struggling, the neighborhood was closing in. Raynor was a great man who stuck around too long. DiUlio was a complete disaster. The Golden Eagles debacle was the capstone on that putrid era.
Due to Father Wild and his team, the University has grown from that time. The basketball is good. The academics are much better. Student demand is great. The Warrior name is the one mistake that hasn't been corrected.
Probably your best post.
Bring back the Warriors.
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It is not an understatement that the late 80s and early 90s were the darkest days in the University's history - the basketball was bad, enrollment was struggling, the neighborhood was closing in. Raynor was a great man who stuck around too long. DiUlio was a complete disaster. The Golden Eagles debacle was the capstone on that putrid era.
Ahhhh...my era at Marquette. And yours, too. And Chicos. And quite a few others on this board. Amazing we still have fond memories of the university and remain engaged.
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Ahhhh...my era at Marquette. And yours, too. And Chicos. And quite a few others on this board. Amazing we still have fond memories of the university and remain engaged.
My era also.
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And mine too, 1985 to 89.
But I'd have it no other way, our basketball wasn't the best but we had the NC heartbreak weekend and many other bball memories that still bring lots of laughs even today. As I'm sure is the case with all of us who were at MU in the late 80's, those years have made me appreciate what we have now, and Cords hiring of KO.
We might not have won, but it was fun to go to the games and we had many great places to drink before and after the game; and of course, the Green Tree.
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One thing I think some people don't understand. It really wasn't just about the name.
It really was about a University administration that let not just the basketball program wither on the vine due to neglect, but also the University itself. And then when Kevin O'Neill came in to resurrect the program, the past was almost white-washed away. As if they were apologizing for something that didn't need to be apologized for.
It is not an understatement that the late 80s and early 90s were the darkest days in the University's history - the basketball was bad, enrollment was struggling, the neighborhood was closing in. Raynor was a great man who stuck around too long. DiUlio was a complete disaster. The Golden Eagles debacle was the capstone on that putrid era.
Due to Father Wild and his team, the University has grown from that time. The basketball is good. The academics are much better. Student demand is great. The Warrior name is the one mistake that hasn't been corrected.
There is a lot of truth to your post. Well said. But I do not agree with the bolded statement. We did need to apologize. Our choice of mascot was racist, demeaning, and a flat out embarrassment to our university. By mascot, I don't mean the choice of Warriors, I mean the choice to depict the warrior as a Native American. Having white kids dress up as the First Warrior was bad enough but we so far as to have caricatures like Willie Wampum. That is a shameful part of our history, one that the administration should have apologized for.
But they never did. You were right the university tried to white wash the past. It wasn't an apology, it was to hide the embarrassment. We were already ahead of the times by changing a Native American themed mascot. We could have been true leaders for change if we had manned up, admitted we made a mistake in the past, and then switched to a Greco-Roman type warrior (love the Joan of Arc suggestions some have made in the past). We could have created a dialogue on the subject and encouraged the schools with more blatantly offensive mascots to change. Instead, we tried to sweep it all under the rug and pray that people would forget about what had happened in the past. It was childish. We should have kept the Warrior name, just changed the imagery. Sure there would have been some backlash from alumni, but it couldn't have been worse than the backlash that still exists.
All that being said, its been what? 23 years at this point? Warriors is never coming back. If they survived all the withheld donations and angry letters this long, what's going to change in the future? What does b*tching and moaning about it get us? What does tearing down our current mascot get us? Nothing. It just makes us look petty and sad. Why trash your alma mater if the decision your upset about is never going to be reversed? None of the people who made the decision to switch are still in power. It's a completely new administration. Why are we still mad?
I am a Golden Eagle. I wish I could have been a Warrior. I should have been a Warrior. That doesn't mean I'm not proud to be a Golden Eagle.
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Probably your best post.
Bring back the Warriors.
For what it is worth, there were problems going back to the 1970s. There were rumors about cheapness even then. At one point, it was suggested that the Administration's nickeling and diming Al to death was a reason he elected to leave.
Those of us who lived through the 1970s saw it coming. The Miami of Ohio debacle was one problem. The lack of recruiting Top 5 and Top 10 talent to Marquette was another. The emergence of the original Big East was still another event that eroded our franchise as perennial also-rans like Georgetown, Boston College, Providence et al suddenly were energized. Hank, God love him, didn't have the impact of Al. It was like sending your Grandfather to the rough neighborhoods after sending a street thug in!
Marquette also had numerous questions, as I recall, about why we were a basketball institution. The fact was that basketball in the 1970s got people to look at Marquette that otherwise might not known it was there. When the basketball program faded, so did Marquette's visibility outside Wisconsin and its surrounding states.
The Golden Eagles thing had to happen. Much as I love the Warriors and will ALWAYS BE A WARRIOR, the PC Police at the NCAA won't let us be Warriors. Without Father Marquette and the Native American, the Warrior name is as worthless as a Golden Eagle name. The Native American and Father Marquette represent what Marquette is and our regional heritage.
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When is the word/term "warriors" ever used in a negative way?
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There is a lot of truth to your post. Well said. But I do not agree with the bolded statement. We did need to apologize. Our choice of mascot was racist, demeaning, and a flat out embarrassment to our university. By mascot, I don't mean the choice of Warriors, I mean the choice to depict the warrior as a Native American. Having white kids dress up as the First Warrior was bad enough but we so far as to have caricatures like Willie Wampum. That is a shameful part of our history, one that the administration should have apologized for.
But they never did. You were right the university tried to white wash the past. It wasn't an apology, it was to hide the embarrassment. We were already ahead of the times by changing a Native American themed mascot. We could have been true leaders for change if we had manned up, admitted we made a mistake in the past, and then switched to a Greco-Roman type warrior (love the Joan of Arc suggestions some have made in the past). We could have created a dialogue on the subject and encouraged the schools with more blatantly offensive mascots to change. Instead, we tried to sweep it all under the rug and pray that people would forget about what had happened in the past. It was childish. We should have kept the Warrior name, just changed the imagery. Sure there would have been some backlash from alumni, but it couldn't have been worse than the backlash that still exists.
All that being said, its been what? 23 years at this point? Warriors is never coming back. If they survived all the withheld donations and angry letters this long, what's going to change in the future? What does b*tching and moaning about it get us? What does tearing down our current mascot get us? Nothing. It just makes us look petty and sad. Why trash your alma mater if the decision your upset about is never going to be reversed? None of the people who made the decision to switch are still in power. It's a completely new administration. Why are we still mad?
I am a Golden Eagle. I wish I could have been a Warrior. I should have been a Warrior. That doesn't mean I'm not proud to be a Golden Eagle.
Some really good stuff here. Class of '88. I remember the first Warrior. I wasn't particularly political or socially aware back then, but I always felt that was degrading. Willie Wampum is just a sad embarrassment. Yes, if MU had acknowledged mistakes and embraced a new image of Warrior, that would have been best. But institutions, schools, bureaucracies, the Catholic church struggle with that. But this argument has been settled and my opinion lost.
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The University did a lot to "man-up" TAMU. For about 20 years the University tried to be respectable. Willie Wampum was clearly an offensive mascot, and it died its death in 1971 after student protest. During the 1980s, the University intentionally worked with Native groups to design a mascot that would be considered appropriate. In retrospect, the Last Warrior was an idea with noble intentions but still clung to the idea that the Warrior had to represent something Native American.
After 1987, the University eliminated the Native mascot entirely, but unfortunately not the logo. Had they done something like the Valpo Crusader at that point, the Warrior name probably would have survived. And it still could have - even in 1993. But instead the administration took the nuclear option of completely changing a name that in-and-of-itself was not offensive.
And I really am not mad about it. It has never caused me to withhold a donation. I just want the name back.
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I am a Golden Eagle. I wish I could have been a Warrior. I should have been a Warrior. That doesn't mean I'm not proud to be a Golden Eagle.
Given that you wish you could have been a Warrior and acknowledge that you should have been a Warrior, I would think you'd better understand why those of us who actually were there when the teams were called Warriors are so pissed off about the university's cavalier disposal of the nickname.
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Given that you wish you could have been a Warrior and acknowledge that you should have been a Warrior, I would think you'd better understand why those of us who actually were there when the teams were called Warriors are so pissed off about the university's cavalier disposal of the nickname.
I understand but not after 21 years. I also don't understand the need to tear down the Golden Eagle mascot.
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The Mascot was not well done....looks like a big chicken.
This could have been done much better by the University....both times. The name could have been kept. Get rid of the imagery. It's not that hard.
Also, many suspect that the abolition of the word Warrior was also in part, due to a financial transaction. DiUlio selling out to the Pottawatomi. Selling out might be a little harsh sounding, but it gets at the essence of how that alleged transaction appears.
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The Mascot was not well done....looks like a big chicken.
Looks like a damn furry bird to me! Go Furry Birds!
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The Mascot was not well done....looks like a big chicken.
This could have been done much better by the University....both times. The name could have been kept. Get rid of the imagery. It's not that hard.
Also, many suspect that the abolition of the word Warrior was also in part, due to a financial transaction. DiUlio selling out to the Pottawatomi. Selling out might be a little harsh sounding, but it gets at the essence of how that alleged transaction appears.
The first one looked alright I think. The modern one is a joke.
I hate that it's unoriginal but 22 years have gone by I think it's weird still being upset at this point.
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The golden eagles have never won a national championship.
-Badger fan
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I hate that it's unoriginal but 22 years have gone by I think it's weird still being upset at this point.
I agree it would be weird if a Warrior fan made their outrage about the nickname change a central part of their everyday existence, where they constantly protested, screamed about it, wrote letters about it...and basically acted like it was a current issue as important as a strong economy and good healthcare.
For me, it's something that I discuss when the subject is raised here, or occasionally at a game. My opinion is very strong during those conversations...but when I leave here, the rest of my takes over again.
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I hate that it's unoriginal but 22 years have gone by I think it's weird still being upset at this point.
We had the coolest nickname in college sports. AND it was unique to Marquette. Now we're a johnny come lately to the most common and boring one out there. 22 days or 22 years later how could any MU fan not be upset?
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We could have been true leaders for change if we had manned up, admitted we made a mistake in the past, and then switched to a Greco-Roman type warrior (love the Joan of Arc suggestions some have made in the past).
Are we sure that using a nickname as the Warriors and using Greco-Roman imagery wouldn't be offensive?
Now, I am completely in the boat that previous imagery MU used was very racist (Willie Wampum). But consider me completely in the camp that if Warriors with the latest logo used is offensive, then Warriors with imagery that relates specifically to ANY group of people should be considered offensive. (Which IMO is ridiculous)
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We had the coolest nickname in college sports. AND it was unique to Marquette. Now we're a johnny come lately to the most common and boring one out there. 22 days or 22 years later how could any MU fan not be upset?
Shockers and ragin cajuns are both cooler and depaul being a catholic school with a demon mascot (especially how it happened) is better as well. I agree it's a bummer we lost a very unique and awesome nickname beyond our control. A lot of people say what if we'd changed the logo, well then we'd be upset that our generic warrior was no different than sparty or the trojans etc. I'd love to be the golden avalanche or the hilltoppers obviously warrior would be awesome too but our jersies say Marquette, not golden eagles and they didn't say warriors either.
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There is a lot of truth to your post. Well said. But I do not agree with the bolded statement. We did need to apologize. Our choice of mascot was racist, demeaning, and a flat out embarrassment to our university. By mascot, I don't mean the choice of Warriors, I mean the choice to depict the warrior as a Native American. Having white kids dress up as the First Warrior was bad enough but we so far as to have caricatures like Willie Wampum. That is a shameful part of our history, one that the administration should have apologized for.
But they never did. You were right the university tried to white wash the past. It wasn't an apology, it was to hide the embarrassment. We were already ahead of the times by changing a Native American themed mascot. We could have been true leaders for change if we had manned up, admitted we made a mistake in the past, and then switched to a Greco-Roman type warrior (love the Joan of Arc suggestions some have made in the past). We could have created a dialogue on the subject and encouraged the schools with more blatantly offensive mascots to change. Instead, we tried to sweep it all under the rug and pray that people would forget about what had happened in the past. It was childish. We should have kept the Warrior name, just changed the imagery. Sure there would have been some backlash from alumni, but it couldn't have been worse than the backlash that still exists.
All that being said, its been what? 23 years at this point? Warriors is never coming back. If they survived all the withheld donations and angry letters this long, what's going to change in the future? What does b*tching and moaning about it get us? What does tearing down our current mascot get us? Nothing. It just makes us look petty and sad. Why trash your alma mater if the decision your upset about is never going to be reversed? None of the people who made the decision to switch are still in power. It's a completely new administration. Why are we still mad?
I am a Golden Eagle. I wish I could have been a Warrior. I should have been a Warrior. That doesn't mean I'm not proud to be a Golden Eagle.
We offered to change the logo but they claimed the damage was done and any warrior logo would forever associate the university with the willie wampum character.
If we had done a greco roman logo a bunch of these same old folks would be upset it was like MSU or USC and not unique enough.
Completely agree on this why trash your alma mater and try to create division as if the students of the past 23yrs went to some different university.
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We offered to change the logo but they claimed the damage was done and any warrior logo would forever associate the university with the willie wampum character.
If we had done a greco roman logo a bunch of these same old folks would be upset it was like MSU or USC and not unique enough.
I don't think that is the case at all.
Completely agree on this why trash your alma mater and try to create division as if the students of the past 23yrs went to some different university.
No one is trashing their alma mater. No one is claiming that you went to a different university. Don't exaggerate.
I guess I don't really expect you to understand, but as I said, it wasn't just about the name. It was about how the decision was made, who made it, and the grand nickname debacle of a decade ago that just succeeded in getting everyone riled up again.
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I don't think that is the case at all.
No one is trashing their alma mater. No one is claiming that you went to a different university. Don't exaggerate.
I guess I don't really expect you to understand, but as I said, it wasn't just about the name. It was about how the decision was made, who made it, and the grand nickname debacle of a decade ago that just succeeded in getting everyone riled up again.
To the first one I swear I found an old article where the head of whatever Indian tribe it was said that.
To your second point I guarantee I could find at least a handful of statements by you old folks that could certainly be taken as you guys creating a division between the two eras.
The who and the how I understand being upset at but at this point it looks like the creepy guy who still maintains he was a better couple with a girlfriend from 23yrs ago even though he's having a great time with the current one.
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To the first one I swear I found an old article where the head of whatever Indian tribe it was said that.
I meant the Greco Roman part of your quote.
To your second point I guarantee I could find at least a handful of statements by you old folks that could certainly be taken as you guys creating a division between the two eras.
Go ahead.
The who and the how I understand being upset at but at this point it looks like the creepy guy who still maintains he was a better couple with a girlfriend from 23yrs ago even though he's having a great time with the current one.
That is quite the dickish analogy.
I am simply disappointed in a decision that my alma mater made 22 years ago. I am expressing my disappointment IN A THREAD ABOUT THAT DECISION. That doesn't mean that I don't support them or am proud of them otherwise.
Don't try to make it more than that.
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There is a lot of truth to your post. Well said. But I do not agree with the bolded statement. We did need to apologize. Our choice of mascot was racist, demeaning, and a flat out embarrassment to our university. By mascot, I don't mean the choice of Warriors, I mean the choice to depict the warrior as a Native American. Having white kids dress up as the First Warrior was bad enough but we so far as to have caricatures like Willie Wampum. That is a shameful part of our history, one that the administration should have apologized for.
The First Warrior wasn't a white kid dressed up. It was Mark Denning, a native-American student at the time, and the logo was his profile. I knew him while I was at Marquette during the nickname change, and he didn't have a big problem with it at the time.
http://fox6now.com/2013/12/04/man-who-was-face-of-marquette-warriors-shares-take-on-mascot-debate/
If we would have just changed the logo in 1994 it would have been fine. Unfortunately things weren't handled that way, and instead of just changing it, they picked a really bland, generic nickname, and then a lame chicken-hawk mascot, so now we're stuck in the position we're in today. We also screwed up the Warrior resurrection/Gold issue, which is too bad, because I think the Gold would have worked. We really don't have a nickname anymore, so why not just stick with the color.
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We had the coolest nickname in college sports. AND it was unique to Marquette. Now we're a johnny come lately to the most common and boring one out there. 22 days or 22 years later how could any MU fan not be upset?
a lot of cool nicknames in college without even stooping to the Banana Slugs, I've always thought both Demon Deacons and Blue Devils in Baptist/Pentecostal country took balls
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The First Warrior wasn't a white kid dressed up. It was Mark Denning, a native-American student at the time, and the logo was his profile. I knew him while I was at Marquette during the nickname change, and he didn't have a big problem with it at the time.
Apologies, I got my Marquette mascots mixed up. It wasn't first Warrior but before Willie Wampum.
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The First Warrior wasn't a white kid dressed up. It was Mark Denning, a native-American student at the time, and the logo was his profile. I knew him while I was at Marquette during the nickname change, and he didn't have a big problem with it at the time.
Being the old f**t Warrior that I am, I need to respectfully correct you on this. The First Warrior was introduced at a game in the 1979-80 season and he was a Native American student named Cliff LaFramboise (sp?). Good guy. He knew how to perform the traditional Native American dances, and he practiced them with us (pep band drum section). The local tribes agreed to donate an authentic, traditional costume for him to wear, except they were late getting it ready and Cliff didn't actually have it in his hands until he showed up at the MECCA the night of his 'unveiling'. With his pre-game intro and associated hoopla literally only 30 minutes away, Cliff's girlfriend frantically grabbed me by the arm and pulled me into what I think was a janitors closet they had given him as a dressing room. Cliff was standing there looking very distraught in nothing but his underwear, and an assorted collection of leather pieces, laces and feathers was lying on the floor. He looks at me with shear panic in his eyes and says "How do I put this thing on?". I look at him and say "Dude, I'm a white Polack from the South Side. You're asking me?". Somehow he figured it out in the nick of time and his grand introduction actually went fairly well. True story, swear to God.
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I came in a Warrior (nh) and will always be a Warrior We are the Marquette Warriors.
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I'd love to meet whoever came up with the Willie Wampum caricature, so I can put a name/face on the person(s) who single-handedly killed any chance of the Warrior nickname from ever returning.
Frankly, the alums from the late 50s, 60s and 70s have nothing to complain about. The only one from that era who did anything meaningful was Denning... and yet, his First Warrior was so well received that it set in motion the fortuitous, back-alley rendezvous of Cookie Monster and Sloth from Goonies which gave life to the drunken personification of regret - Bleuteaux. With all due respect to Chick, it had to be a perfect storm to let that one to play out, otherwise, she'd just be another mortal alum on Scoop. Yet her legacy is forever carved in the annals of Marquette mascotology because MU students and alums at the time couldn't even bear a respectful image of a Native American.
Who really got screwed were the late 80s and early 90s alums who had to live through the change and the mid 90s-present day alums who have become the involuntary beneficiaries of a hard-line division created a generation before them. When asked by older alums if I was a Warrior or Golden Eagle, I respond "always a Warrior," even though deep down I know that essentially, I'm being asked if I should be considered a second-class alum. The fact that there are alumni today who are still withholding donations/contributions to the University because they're miffed about the name is ludicrous. But stupid is as stupid does, and as dumb as it was that MU even had to play the hand that would ultimately lead to a mascot change, it's even dumber that the sweater vests continue to complain about the cards they themselves dealt.
It's disheartening that we continue to deal with the whole Warrior-Golden Eagle debate. While not a Warrior "by birth," Warrior is in my blood, but that's where it has to stay, unfortunately... a life force, hidden from sight, which acts as a constant reminder that there's nothing you can do to change the misdeeds of your predecessors.
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I'd love to meet whoever came up with the Willie Wampum caricature, so I can put a name/face on the person(s) who single-handedly killed any chance of the Warrior nickname from ever returning.
And the bros who come to games in "headresses" now only serve to reinforce in the eyes of many the decision that was made 22 years ago.
But even if they made the decision back when willie was retired to drop the native imagery for something else, Marquette would be Warriors today. Trying to make the imagery "respectable" lead to the names demise.
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I'd love to meet whoever came up with the Willie Wampum caricature, so I can put a name/face on the person(s) who single-handedly killed any chance of the Warrior nickname from ever returning.
Frankly, the alums from the late 50s, 60s and 70s have nothing to complain about. The only one from that era who did anything meaningful was Denning... and yet, his First Warrior was so well received that it set in motion the fortuitous, back-alley rendezvous of Cookie Monster and Sloth from Goonies which gave life to the drunken personification of regret - Bleuteaux. With all due respect to Chick, it had to be a perfect storm to let that one to play out, otherwise, she'd just be another mortal alum on Scoop. Yet her legacy is forever carved in the annals of Marquette mascotology because MU students and alums at the time couldn't even bear a respectful image of a Native American.
Who really got screwed were the late 80s and early 90s alums who had to live through the change and the mid 90s-present day alums who have become the involuntary beneficiaries of a hard-line division created a generation before them. When asked by older alums if I was a Warrior or Golden Eagle, I respond "always a Warrior," even though deep down I know that essentially, I'm being asked if I should be considered a second-class alum. The fact that there are alumni today who are still withholding donations/contributions to the University because they're miffed about the name is ludicrous. But stupid is as stupid does, and as dumb as it was that MU even had to play the hand that would ultimately lead to a mascot change, it's even dumber that the sweater vests continue to complain about the cards they themselves dealt.
It's disheartening that we continue to deal with the whole Warrior-Golden Eagle debate. While not a Warrior "by birth," Warrior is in my blood, but that's where it has to stay, unfortunately... a life force, hidden from sight, which acts as a constant reminder that there's nothing you can do to change the misdeeds of your predecessors.
+1000
It doesn't say who, but this article says it was a Marquette cheerleader and his sister who created Willie Wampum.
http://marquettewire.org/3849912/journal/latest-issue/college-life/mascot-madness/
Anyone know the male cheerleaders from back in the 50s?
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And the bros who come to games in "headresses" now only serve to reinforce in the eyes of many the decision that was made 22 years ago.
I cringe everytime I see that headdress. Who knows, maybe if people stopped showing up in their old Warrior apparel (or using it as their profile pics on mu forums....) maybe they would let Warriors back onto the table.
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And the bros who come to games in "headresses" now only serve to reinforce in the eyes of many the decision that was made 22 years ago.
But even if they made the decision back when willie was retired to drop the native imagery for something else, Marquette would be Warriors today. Trying to make the imagery "respectable" lead to the names demise.
Which is why Blackhawks should be banned because of the bros that wear head dresses at games....
Please.
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I cringe everytime I see that headdress. Who knows, maybe if people stopped showing up in their old Warrior apparel (or using it as their profile pics on mu forums....) maybe they would let Warriors back onto the table.
Can I show up in my warrior apparel with a Knight on it?
Or would a Muslim think that is a crusader and anti Islam?
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Can I show up in my warrior apparel with a Knight on it?
Or would a Muslim think that is a crusader and anti Islam?
If our name was the Crusaders I would buy that. Nice try though.
Do you want the name back or not? Every time an alum shows up to a game in native themed garb, it reinforces the line of reasoning that alumni would never be able to disassociate the name Warrior from the Native American imagery. Maybe making up some apparel that says Marquette Warriors with a Greco-Roman or Medieval warrior on it is the right move. Shows loyalty to the name without being disrespectful of another culture. Would it actually lead to getting the name changed? Probably not. But its more likely than continuing to trumpet for our right as white people to use native American imagery as a prop for our sports fandom
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Which is why Blackhawks should be banned because of the bros that wear head dresses at games....
Please.
??? This has nothing to do with the Blackhawks.
I said "reinforce in the eyes of many." Such as the university administration, the BOT, people who supported the name change... When they see students wearing the headresses, it supports their assertion that the Warriors name goes hand-in-hand with native imagery and that's why "Warriors" should never return.
Perhaps I should have been more specific because of your hair-trigger defense of those who support the insulting of a minority group.
Or would a Muslim think that is a crusader and anti Islam?
I was PMing with someone about this and I predicted that you would bring this up.
<skypoint>
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Someone somewhere would be outraged by it, just the way it goes.
TAMU, I have said what the solution is. Bring the name back but align it with a symbol that will not be associated with a Native American.
People would adopt it.
This line of thinking that it justifies the decision because people wear a headdress or apparel is an utter joke. The reason they wear it is Because of the decision. They are protesting the decision. Don't want them to wear it? Simple, bring the name back and align it with a different symbol.
The GoldenState Warriors. Period. End of Argument!!
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Someone somewhere would be outraged by it, just the way it goes.
TAMU, I have said what the solution is. Bring the name back but align it with a symbol that will not be associated with a Native American.
People would adopt it.
This line of thinking that it justifies the decision because people wear a headdress or apparel is an utter joke. The reason they wear it is Because of the decision. They are protesting the decision. Don't want them to wear it? Simple, bring the name back and align it with a different symbol.
The GoldenState Warriors. Period. End of Argument!!
I'm not saying it's right that it justifies the decision. I'm just saying that it does. I can guarantee you that every time they see that headdress they say to themselves "See, even with a different mascot they still cling to that. Changing was the right decision"
I wonder if there could be a way to actually block people from wearing native apparel to games. The Central Michigan Chippewas will remove fans from sporting events who wear anything resembling native garb. Always seemed like there would be free speech issues there. Not sure how they do it. Their students do a fantastic job policing it themselves. I saw a student put on a headdress once after sneaking it. in Another student ripped it off his head and threw it over the fence outside the stadium. Maybe change the name back, change the imagery and institute a similar policy if its possible. Maybe that work.
But honestly, don't see it happening. And don't know if it should. It's been over 20 years. Continually changing your brand is not good for the university. It might be time to focus on building the Golden Eagle. Love the idea of having a live Golden Eagle for games.
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Do you want the name back or not? Every time an alum shows up to a game in native themed garb, it reinforces the line of reasoning that alumni would never be able to disassociate the name Warrior from the Native American imagery. Maybe making up some apparel that says Marquette Warriors with a Greco-Roman or Medieval warrior on it is the right move. Shows loyalty to the name without being disrespectful of another culture. Would it actually lead to getting the name changed? Probably not. But its more likely than continuing to trumpet for our right as white people to use native American imagery as a prop for our sports fandom
If the university would have kept the name and changed the imagery, then people would have started using the new imagery. However, the old imagery is all that remains, so that is what people are left with. Individual fans aren't going to create their own new imagery on their own, and placing that responsibility on them is ridiculous. I wear an old Warriors logo shirt to most home games. If I made my own logo it would look stupid since I'd be the only person with it and no one would know what the heck it is. Although I might look into a shirt that just says "Warriors".
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Guys, while I agree that continuing to use the old imagery is not a great look, eliminating it won't matter.
The continued decision to not bring back the name is a financial one dressed as a moral one. Deals were made and a name was lost forever, it would be better to start a campaign to go back to Hilltoppers
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AS I STATED BEFORE, IT'S STILL---- WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS.
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Guys, while I agree that continuing to use the old imagery is not a great look, eliminating it won't matter.
The continued decision to not bring back the name is a financial one dressed as a moral one. Deals were made and a name was lost forever, it would be better to start a campaign to go back to Hilltoppers
What financial decision? Marquette has been offered millions in donations to bring back the name. I can't imagine it outweighs this financial decision
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What financial decision? Marquette has been offered millions in donations to bring back the name. I can't imagine it outweighs this financial decision
Something having to do a deal with Potowanomi and Valley Fields I believe. One of the conditions was that the name doesn't come back. Though I have never heard of a University source verifying this.
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Something having to do a deal with Potowanomi and Valley Fields I believe. One of the conditions was that the name doesn't come back. Though I have never heard of a University source verifying this.
This is correct, there is additional financing that flows in from time to time as part of the deal. It's in both parties interest to keep the deal on the DL and I don't think it will ever get acknowledged publicly
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This is correct, there is additional financing that flows in from time to time as part of the deal. It's in both parties interest to keep the deal on the DL and I don't think it will ever get acknowledged publicly
The thing that has always bothered me about this was why did a trustee in a public setting offer the University $2 million to change the name back?
Did he not know about the agreement? Did he know about it in vague terms but not the details? Did he want the University to back out of the agreement and pay damages? Was it something spontaneous that caused more of a fire storm than he intended?
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The thing that has always bothered me about this was why did a trustee in a public setting offer the University $2 million to change the name back?
Did he not know about the agreement? Did he know about it in vague terms but not the details? Did he want the University to back out of the agreement and pay damages? Was it something spontaneous that caused more of a fire storm than he intended?
From what I heard it was the item in bold. Also I don't believe the final outcome impacted his support of the university. The real kicker is that he was that he was Vice Chair of the BOT at the time of the comment which put Father Wild in a tough position.
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From what I heard it was the item in bold. Also I don't believe the final outcome impacted his support of the university. The real kicker is that he was that he was Vice Chair of the BOT at the time of the comment which put Father Wild in a tough position.
That's kind of what I figured. But then the University and the trustee could have just handled it better. He should have just come out with a statement that said "Oh I just got caught up in the moment. I'm still going to give the University $2 million but I understand why we are committed to Golden Eagles."
End of controversy. Instead they created a sh*tstorm lasted for almost a year.
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That's kind of what I figured. But then the University and the trustee could have just handled it better. He should have just come out with a statement that said "Oh I just got caught up in the moment. I'm still going to give the University $2 million but I understand why we are committed to Golden Eagles."
End of controversy. Instead they created a sh*tstorm lasted for almost a year.
From what I know, it's a little bit of both spontaneous outburst and there is a "shadow" board within the actual board that the gentleman wasn't in on. Basically the BoT knows things in general, but there are a handful that know the full details and the commencement announcement was made based on general knowledge, not the full knowledge and spontaneously.
There are 33 members of the board, not everyone knows everything and there is a core group of 5 or 6 that are the real power behind the board. Not anything nefarious or next level illuminati crap but an organization like Marquette can't be run in committee.
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there is a "shadow" board
So both Scoop & the BOT has an 'under-board'
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So both Scoop & the BOT has an 'under-board'
There is, of course, a Scoop cabal that can't be talked about....but I've said too much already.
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Something having to do a deal with Potowanomi and Valley Fields I believe. One of the conditions was that the name doesn't come back. Though I have never heard of a University source verifying this.
Next time you're at the county recorder's office, pull title on Valley Fields... there's probably some interesting and/or esoteric stuff recorded against the land.
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Next time you're at the county recorder's office, pull title on Valley Fields... there's probably some interesting and/or esoteric stuff recorded against the land.
I have and there is :o ;D but I'm not a lawyer so I didn't follow half of it. Let's just say there seemed to be a lot of title transfers in 1994 on that lot of land.
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Bring back the hilltoppers!
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Golden State Warriors fans were given a new symbol, and they adopted it.
This has always been so simple, but MU found a way to f it up.
The old warriors are hung on to because it was ripped away. Give the name back and a new symbol, in short order that symbol will be adopted. We have a proxy case.
Cowards
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Golden State Warriors fans were given a new symbol, and they adopted it.
This has always been so simple, but MU found a way to f it up.
The old warriors are hung on to because it was ripped away. Give the name back and a new symbol, in short order that symbol will be adopted. We have a proxy case.
Cowards
I don't disagree with you. But we can't control what the administration does. We can only control our reaction to it.
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22 years ago I was in college at MU. Holy crap time flies. Glad to be the Last of the (Official) Warriors, but MU will always be Warriors.
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22 years ago I was in college at MU. Holy crap time flies. Glad to be the Last of the (Official) Warriors, but MU will always be Warriors.
Old fugg.
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And because it was taken away, and because the simple thing to do would be to simply associate a new symbol with it but they didn't, the cottage industry exists to go with the ONLY linkage there is.
So stuck up ladies and gents.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/191325697703?var=&hash=item2c8be676a7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/201443443638?var=&hash=item2ee6f703b6
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/201409028205?var=&hash=item2ee4e9e06d
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Marquette-University-Warriors-T-Shirt-Large-Made-in-the-USA-Old-Mascot-/281802570223?hash=item419cbdf9ef
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-GRAY-T-SHIRT-/252118999458?hash=item3ab376a1a2
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And because it was taken away, and because the simple thing to do would be to simply associate a new symbol with it but they didn't, the cottage industry exists to go with the ONLY linkage there is.
So stuck up ladies and gents.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/191325697703?var=&hash=item2c8be676a7
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/201443443638?var=&hash=item2ee6f703b6
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/201409028205?var=&hash=item2ee4e9e06d
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Marquette-University-Warriors-T-Shirt-Large-Made-in-the-USA-Old-Mascot-/281802570223?hash=item419cbdf9ef
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-GRAY-T-SHIRT-/252118999458?hash=item3ab376a1a2
I know PC outrage is kind of your thing on Scoop, but the association of Warriors to Native American imagery isn't the actual reason warriors isn't coming back. It certainly doesn't help and the university can continue to trot it out as a public reason for not changing.....but even if all imagery were eliminated and/or another symbol selected they will not change back for legal and financial reasons.
It is not changing back, full stop.
No matter how much people wave the PC banner, it will not change. Right or wrong, for our health and the sake of not wasting effort on a lost cause we should probably move on to something else.
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I know PC outrage is kind of your thing on Scoop, but the association of Warriors to Native American imagery isn't the actual reason warriors isn't coming back. It certainly doesn't help and the university can continue to trot it out as a public reason for not changing.....but even if all imagery were eliminated and/or another symbol selected they will not change back for legal and financial reasons.
It is not changing back, full stop.
No matter how much people wave the PC banner, it will not change. Right or wrong, for our health and the sake of not wasting effort on a lost cause we should probably move on to something else.
The point of this thread is to grouse once a year....Chico's is to Crean as mu03eng is to Warriors?
By the way I do agree that being upset that they screwed up in the mid-90's and accepting Wild's ultimate decision in the mid-00's are mutually exclusive.
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but the association of Warriors to Native American imagery isn't the actual reason warriors isn't coming back. It certainly doesn't help and the university can continue to trot it out as a public reason for not changing.....but even if all imagery were eliminated and/or another symbol selected they will not change back for legal and financial reasons.
I agree, which is why the silliness by some people here to suggest with comments like "see, Joe blow is wearing a headdress is proof positive..." is such a mentally insulting response. It's ridiculous and can be solved in a nanosecond.
I agree, it isn't coming back. So stock up on the headdresses, the shirts, the flags, keep the Warrior chants going and fuel the silliness that some people actually believe that's the reason it isn't coming back, or justifying why it doesn't.
We agree completely, it isn't coming back. Some of us will support the Warriors and MU. Some will support the Golden Eagles and MU.
(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-go-warriors-10.png)
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Do you know what I hate most about the name change? That alumni use it as their go-to excuse for not financially supporting the university.
"Yes, I got a wonderful education at Marquette that has had a profoundly positive affect on my life in many ways. But since they are no longer the Warriors, I say 'F*ck all the students who attend now and in the future!' "
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Candidly, I'm tired of debating the Warrior issue. Let's deal with the facts:
1) We're all Warriors -- at least most of us posting here.
2) No matter how much we want to be Warriors, it is never coming back. Ever. The University won't do it. The PC police at the NCAA won't let us do it. If the University would not take millions of dollars to bring back the Warriors -- and we know how Jesuits adore money -- then it will not happen.
3) The scales are tilting to the point where there either are as many living Golden Eagle alums and students as there are Warriors. This scale will get even more and more tilted toward Golden Eagles as we Warriors continue to age and die.
4) We still love our Warriors, no matter what they're called!
Anyone who has had a meaningful experience at Marquette and uses the Warrior decision to avoid contributing is lying about their motives. At this point, the Warrior issue is a smoke screen for something else.
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I agree, which is why the silliness by some people here to suggest with comments like "see, Joe blow is wearing a headdress is proof positive..." is such a mentally insulting response. It's ridiculous and can be solved in a nanosecond.
I agree, it isn't coming back. So stock up on the headdresses, the shirts, the flags, keep the Warrior chants going and fuel the silliness that some people actually believe that's the reason it isn't coming back, or justifying why it doesn't.
We agree completely, it isn't coming back. Some of us will support the Warriors and MU. Some will support the Golden Eagles and MU.
(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-go-warriors-10.png)
Fair enough, I understand your position and I agree. It is funny, because it is a cut and dry not coming back regardless of student/alumni action....that kind of frees us to do whatever we want. Where all the warriors and native american imagery you want cause it won't make a difference either way. :D
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The point of this thread is to grouse once a year....Chico's is to Crean as mu03eng is to Warriors?
By the way I do agree that being upset that they screwed up in the mid-90's and accepting Wild's ultimate decision in the mid-00's are mutually exclusive.
Oh I get the grousing, let's just do it factually :) I was in high school when the original decision was made and was barely aware of MU at the time, but I will grouse to this day about the original decision because it was a terrible one.
I hate being PC as much as anyone, I just don't want people thinking being PC has anything to do with the continuing ban on warriors at MU.
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Candidly, I'm tired of debating the Warrior issue. Let's deal with the facts:
1) We're all Warriors -- at least most of us posting here.
2) No matter how much we want to be Warriors, it is never coming back. Ever. The University won't do it. The PC police at the NCAA won't let us do it. If the University would not take millions of dollars to bring back the Warriors -- and we know how Jesuits adore money -- then it will not happen.
3) The scales are tilting to the point where there either are as many living Golden Eagle alums and students as their are Warriors. This scale will get even more and more tilted toward Golden Eagles as we Warriors continue to age and die.
4) We still love our Warriors, no matter what they're called!
Anyone who has had a meaningful experience at Marquette and uses the Warrior decision to avoid contributing is lying about their motives. At this point, the Warrior issue is a smoke screen for something else.
THIS.
My parents were Hilltoppers, my wife and I Warriors, and our kids are Golden Eagles. We ARE Marquette!
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I agree, which is why the silliness by some people here to suggest with comments like "see, Joe blow is wearing a headdress is proof positive..." is such a mentally insulting response. It's ridiculous and can be solved in a nanosecond.
Good lord. You are so busy with your rants you don't understand what people are saying.
*I* don't believe that students wearning headresses are a sign that we can't move beyond native imagery. The administration is going to use that as a reason to not bring back the name.
Stop trying to make your cultural/political points for once to actually READ what people are writing.
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Candidly, I'm tired of debating the Warrior issue. Let's deal with the facts:
2) No matter how much we want to be Warriors, it is never coming back. Ever. The University won't do it. The PC police at the NCAA won't let us do it. If the University would not take millions of dollars to bring back the Warriors -- and we know how Jesuits adore money -- then it will not happen.
(http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/post/image/818670/thumb_courage-wolf-meme-generator-do-not-go-gentle-into-that-good-night-rage-rage-against-the-dying-of-the-light-3b7b49.jpg)
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Anyone who has had a meaningful experience at Marquette and uses the Warrior decision to avoid contributing is lying about their motives. At this point, the Warrior issue is a smoke screen for something else.
Absolutely. The other dumb excuse: "I still have student loans (sniff)", often used by millenialss who think nothing of regularly dropping $50+ on a weekend night at his or her night spot of choice.
Marquette isn't asking the younger folks for 5-figure donations If those same people had one fewer beer per weekend, that is easily $250 they could donate to the place that prepared them for the career that paid for all those other beers.
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Anytime you base philanthropy on "obligation," you aren't going to be very successful at raising money.
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Anytime you base philanthropy on "obligation," you aren't going to be very successful at raising money.
Bingo.
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Absolutely. The other dumb excuse: "I still have student loans (sniff)", often used by millenialss who think nothing of regularly dropping $50+ on a weekend night at his or her night spot of choice.
Marquette isn't asking the younger folks for 5-figure donations If those same people had one fewer beer per weekend, that is easily $250 they could donate to the place that prepared them for the career that paid for all those other beers.
Now I agree that excuse is bogus since you can do recurring donations to minimize the immediate expense (it's what I did) but in all fairness $50 ain't exactly going as far these days on a weekend as it did when you were young and student loans are considerably higher than when you were young.
$250 I think is a bit much of an expectation for right out of college, I gave $50 I'll probably do $100 this year over 12 months on a credit card to get the phone-a-thon caller the biggest bonus possible.
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Now I agree that excuse is bogus since you can do recurring donations to minimize the immediate expense (it's what I did) but in all fairness $50 ain't exactly going as far these days on a weekend as it did when you were young and student loans are considerably higher than when you were young.
$250 I think is a bit much of an expectation for right out of college, I gave $50 I'll probably do $100 this year over 12 months on a credit card to get the phone-a-thon caller the biggest bonus possible.
It was just an example. My point is that any Marquette grad that has money to party has money to donate. Saying you can't afford to give anything is a lie.
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It was just an example. My point is that any Marquette grad that has money to party has money to donate. Saying you can't afford to give anything is a lie.
No but expecting them to give is unrealistic in many cases, and "guilting" them into giving is a way to prevent them from giving philanthropically later on. There are studies that show that organizations who base their solicitations of young alumni on a sense of obligation or tradition, have declining participation rates as those young alumni grow older.
Young alumni have to feel that their degree and experience have value. They are also seeking things from their alma mater that haven't traditionally been provided in the past.
http://www.eduventures.com/2015/02/college-value-impacts-alumni-giving/
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No but expecting them to give is unrealistic in many cases, and "guilting" them into giving is a way to prevent them from giving philanthropically later on. There are studies that show that organizations who base their solicitations of young alumni on a sense of obligation or tradition, have declining participation rates as those young alumni grow older.
Young alumni have to feel that their degree and experience have value. They are also seeking things from their alma mater that haven't traditionally been provided in the past.
http://www.eduventures.com/2015/02/college-value-impacts-alumni-giving/
I completely get that. But if you decide to give a reason why you are choosing not to donate, be honest about it. Don't cry poverty or blame a decision that was made two decades ago that has nothing to do with the main mission of the University.
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I completely get that. But if you decide to give a reason why you are choosing not to donate, be honest about it. Don't cry poverty or blame a decision that was made two decades ago that has nothing to do with the main mission of the University.
Oh I agree. I mean, I don't give to Marquette any longer and it has nothing to do with the name change. It just isn't all that important to me when compared to the other charities that are out there.
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Absolutely. The other dumb excuse: "I still have student loans (sniff)", often used by millenialss who think nothing of regularly dropping $50+ on a weekend night at his or her night spot of choice.
Marquette isn't asking the younger folks for 5-figure donations If those same people had one fewer beer per weekend, that is easily $250 they could donate to the place that prepared them for the career that paid for all those other beers.
God bless ya, Chick!
My Dad, who was a Hilltopper, told this Warrior long ago that we put back something of what we took. On top of that, there are foundations and philanthropists that give based on the number of Alums who give. So as he drilled into me, "even $10 counts!"
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It's over when I say it is....
http://youtu.be/q7vtWB4owdE
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Candidly, I'm tired of debating the Warrior issue. Let's deal with the facts:
1) We're all Warriors -- at least most of us posting here.
2) No matter how much we want to be Warriors, it is never coming back. Ever. The University won't do it. The PC police at the NCAA won't let us do it. If the University would not take millions of dollars to bring back the Warriors -- and we know how Jesuits adore money -- then it will not happen.
3) The scales are tilting to the point where there either are as many living Golden Eagle alums and students as there are Warriors. This scale will get even more and more tilted toward Golden Eagles as we Warriors continue to age and die.
4) We still love our Warriors, no matter what they're called!
Anyone who has had a meaningful experience at Marquette and uses the Warrior decision to avoid contributing is lying about their motives. At this point, the Warrior issue is a smoke screen for something else.
Jesuits love money? I didn't know that. Enlighten me.
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You obviously have never been hit up for money from the Jesuits and their institutions
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You obviously have never been hit up for money from the Jesuits and their institutions
Got a call last night and a letter today.
Asked them when the name is changing back. Young lady said they still hear it from alumni. My heart filled with warmth.
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Good lord. You are so busy with your rants you don't understand what people are saying.
*I* don't believe that students wearning headresses are a sign that we can't move beyond native imagery. The administration is going to use that as a reason to not bring back the name.
Stop trying to make your cultural/political points for once to actually READ what people are writing.
I read it just fine..... http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27935.msg764207#msg764207
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Do you know what I hate most about the name change? That alumni use it as their go-to excuse for not financially supporting the university.
"Yes, I got a wonderful education at Marquette that has had a profoundly positive affect on my life in many ways. But since they are no longer the Warriors, I say 'F*ck all the students who attend now and in the future!' "
I asked the gal last night that called from MU about the nickname. Said it still is asked. I will be making a donation, but it chaps my ass the decision they made. Just because one earned a solid education, doesn't mean you have to support everything the school does, either. One way to do that is with the wallet. That being said, I donate, but I donate to my other alma maters, too, when I didn't use to do that. And yes, part of it is because of the decision that was made. Not because of the PC part of it, but because a very simple solution was easily EASILY EASILY achieved. The fact that it wasn't to this day bothers me about the competency of the university at times.
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Got a call last night and a letter today.
Asked them when the name is changing back. Young lady said they still hear it from alumni. My heart filled with warmth.
As someone who worked at phone-a-thon (the people who call you from campus) that is one of the two most annoying responses I'd get. I'm wasn't calling on behalf of the Golden Eagles, nope just Marquette.
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As someone who worked at phone-a-thon (the people who call you from campus) that is one of the two most annoying responses I'd get. I'm wasn't calling on behalf of the Golden Eagles, nope just Marquette.
Thank you phone caller. I appreciate that you are calling me on behalf of Marquette. What is the nickname that our sports teams go by that represent the university? If we're just going to be Marquette, then drop the nickname completely.
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Thank you phone caller. I appreciate that you are calling me on behalf of Marquette. What is the nickname that our sports teams go by that represent the university? If we're just going to be Marquette, then drop the nickname completely.
What is the name on the front of the jersey? Because that's a heck of a lot more important. Personally I think not having a nickname would be extremely unique and would really emphasize the "we are Marquette" chant to us.
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As someone who worked at phone-a-thon (the people who call you from campus) that is one of the two most annoying responses I'd get. I'm wasn't calling on behalf of the Golden Eagles, nope just Marquette.
Always cool to hear when students are dismissive about alumni concerns.
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I read it just fine..... http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27935.msg764207#msg764207
Try again. Sultan got it exactly right. I didn't explain it out in the post you linked to, but keep reading and you'll see:
I'm not saying it's right that it justifies the decision. I'm just saying that it does. I can guarantee you that every time they see that headdress they say to themselves "See, even with a different mascot they still cling to that. Changing was the right decision"
....
But honestly, don't see it happening. And don't know if it should. It's been over 20 years. Continually changing your brand is not good for the university. It might be time to focus on building the Golden Eagle. Love the idea of having a live Golden Eagle for games.
I also said:
I don't disagree with you. But we can't control what the administration does. We can only control our reaction to it.
I don't think us not showing up to games in native imagery will actually change things. It would be nice if it would, but I doubt it could. But I do think it's more likely than continuing to say "F you administration" over and over again. I also think it's the right thing to do because it is offensive imagery and embarrassing for my alma mater. Just shirts that say Warriors, those are great. Your avatar, not so much.
I'm not even sure if it would be wise to change the name back to Warriors. We've been the Golden Eagles for 21 years now (minus the week of the Gold debacle). It might be better to just try to build the Golden Eagle brand. I don't have a problem with our mascot but it seems enough people do, so maybe update it to a different look. Would really love having a live mascot if that's possible. Auburn does it, why can't we?
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It might be better to just try to build the Golden Eagle brand.
I think this is obviously what is going to happen at this point. The nickname debate is over. It is settled. It will be Golden Eagles.
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Always cool to hear when students are dismissive about alumni concerns.
Well if the alumni concern is stupid after all these years and make it difficult to do my job then I'd say dismissive is just fine.
You know we call the ole Hilltoppers folks to and not once did one of them say "darn it we aren't the Hilltoppers anymore!" This is purely a weird thing the middle aged people have going on.
Also I'm not a student anymore I'm an alum so my concern now would be why some other alums can't get over this.
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Well if the alumni concern is stupid after all these years and make it difficult to do my job then I'd say dismissive is just fine.
You know we call the ole Hilltoppers folks to and not once did one of them say "darn it we aren't the Hilltoppers anymore!" This is purely a weird thing the middle aged people have going on.
Also I'm not a student anymore I'm an alum so my concern now would be why some other alums can't get over this.
*You* spend your free time boxing and bagpipping and then have the audacity to call *my* opinion stupid?
Okee-dokee.
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I don't think us not showing up to games in native imagery will actually change things.
That's my point. People are still showing up to games and following the team despite their hatred of the name change. If you object to it that strongly, boycotting the team is how you should protest. Apparently, their love of Marquette basketball trumps that.
But those same folks are using the name change as a reason not to support the university in ways that have absolutely nothing to do with basketball. Logically that makes no sense whatsoever, especially considering that most, if not nearly all the people who were involved in that decision are no longer actively involved in running the university.
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*You* spend your free time boxing and bagpipping and then have the audacity to call *my* opinion stupid?
Okee-dokee.
Actually I spend my free time at physical therapy, the knee's kinda been shot for about a year now. But yeah pretty much. I don't see how these are related, is complaining about MU not being the warriors your sport and hobby of choice?
Someone must be grouchy pants on St Patrick's Day, can't imagine how you are when you watch Braveheart. And in regards to boxing I'm 5'7" there's not many other sports I naturally have a shot at going professional in.
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Well if the alumni concern is stupid after all these years and make it difficult to do my job then I'd say dismissive is just fine.
You know we call the ole Hilltoppers folks to and not once did one of them say "darn it we aren't the Hilltoppers anymore!" This is purely a weird thing the middle aged people have going on.
Also I'm not a student anymore I'm an alum so my concern now would be why some other alums can't get over this.
How very inclusive and non-judgemental of you
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How very inclusive and non-judgemental of you
Ok I'm sorry perhaps stupid is a poor word. But I maintain that the alums that we were calling who'd work themselves into a frenzy and go on these rants all about hating the golden eagles and won't donate till it goes back were "stupid"
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Actually I spend my free time at physical therapy, the knee's kinda been shot for about a year now. But yeah pretty much. I don't see how these are related, is complaining about MU not being the warriors your sport and hobby of choice?
I'm making a point. Calling people's opinions "stupid" is really a dumb way to get people to listen to you. And again, I am hardly obsessed with this issue. I am talking about it in a message board thread with this very subject.
Someone must be grouchy pants on St Patrick's Day, can't imagine how you are when you watch Braveheart.
I have no idea what this has to do with St. Patrick's Day and I've never seen Braveheart so you might as well be speaking in Farsi here.
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Things have gotten a little personal here....
I think something that sometimes get lost in this debate is the perspective of the current students and young alumni. I think there is this myth that every Marquette grad post 94 hates the Golden Eagle and wish they could have been the Warriors. Some of us may have liked to be Warriors (myself included), but the vast majority of us like the Golden Eagle mascot. We identify with it. We are proud to be Golden Eagles. When we hear older alumni, who we look up to, trash the mascot, it hurts. Every time an alumni calls it a furry chicken or says that we are always the Warriors and will never support the Golden Eagle, it feels like an attack on our school. It also feels like we are being put into "2nd class alumni" status. Try to imagine how defensive the older alumni get about the Warriors. The younger alumni feel that way about the Golden Eagles. Just like the pre 94 grads wouldn't like the Warrirors insulted, the recent alums don't want the Golden Eagle insulted. Is it really surprising that younger alumni react with such dismissiveness and judgement? Two of the most reoccurring topics on here are "f*ck the Golden Eagle" and "the current student section sucks."
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Things have gotten a little personal here....
I think something that sometimes get lost in this debate is the perspective of the current students and young alumni. I think there is this myth that every Marquette grad post 94 hates the Golden Eagle and wish they could have been the Warriors. Some of us may have liked to be Warriors (myself included), but the vast majority of us like the Golden Eagle mascot.
That's my point TAMU. We Warriors are dying or dribbling. At some point, we need to move on.
If I thought there was any way in which the Warriors could come back, I'd use my limited, limited influence to help facilitate it. But it aint gonna happen and to your point, there are thousands of Golden Eagle alums who feel about the Eagle the way we felt about the Warrior.
I love our team but our mascot is still a damn furry bird.
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I'm making a point. Calling people's opinions "stupid" is really a dumb way to get people to listen to you. And again, I am hardly obsessed with this issue. I am talking about it in a message board thread with this very subject.
I have no idea what this has to do with St. Patrick's Day and I've never seen Braveheart so you might as well be speaking in Farsi here.
Well generally the bagpipes are played on St Patrick's Day you called them stupid, I can only imagine you'd be very grouchy on that day.
I walked back on my stupid comment, but if you put up with the annoying comments that we got I'm quite certain you'd call it that to.
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Well generally the bagpipes are played on St Patrick's Day you called them stupid, I can only imagine you'd be very grouchy on that day.
I actually like the bagpipes.
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I actually like the bagpipes.
You could see where I got confused...
*You* spend your free time boxing and bagpipping and then have the audacity to call *my* opinion stupid?
Okee-dokee.
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Nevermind. My point was missed.
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Things have gotten a little personal here....
I think something that sometimes get lost in this debate is the perspective of the current students and young alumni. I think there is this myth that every Marquette grad post 94 hates the Golden Eagle and wish they could have been the Warriors. Some of us may have liked to be Warriors (myself included), but the vast majority of us like the Golden Eagle mascot. We identify with it. We are proud to be Golden Eagles. When we hear older alumni, who we look up to, trash the mascot, it hurts. Every time an alumni calls it a furry chicken or says that we are always the Warriors and will never support the Golden Eagle, it feels like an attack on our school. It also feels like we are being put into "2nd class alumni" status. Try to imagine how defensive the older alumni get about the Warriors. The younger alumni feel that way about the Golden Eagles. Just like the pre 94 grads wouldn't like the Warrirors insulted, the recent alums don't want the Golden Eagle insulted. Is it really surprising that younger alumni react with such dismissiveness and judgement? Two of the most reoccurring topics on here are "f*ck the Golden Eagle" and "the current student section sucks."
As a youngish alum, I get what you are saying but I think it's a case of everyone is wrong. Is it right for warrior alumni or younger alumni who hate the chicken hawk to rip on it? Nope because there are alum/students that like/identify with it. But those alum/students who like it shouldn't be ripping on those who hate it.
Each opinion is actually valid so it should be a whatever lets cheer for the name on the front situation.
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Things have gotten a little personal here....
I think something that sometimes get lost in this debate is the perspective of the current students and young alumni. I think there is this myth that every Marquette grad post 94 hates the Golden Eagle and wish they could have been the Warriors. Some of us may have liked to be Warriors (myself included), but the vast majority of us like the Golden Eagle mascot. We identify with it. We are proud to be Golden Eagles. When we hear older alumni, who we look up to, trash the mascot, it hurts. Every time an alumni calls it a furry chicken or says that we are always the Warriors and will never support the Golden Eagle, it feels like an attack on our school. It also feels like we are being put into "2nd class alumni" status. Try to imagine how defensive the older alumni get about the Warriors. The younger alumni feel that way about the Golden Eagles. Just like the pre 94 grads wouldn't like the Warrirors insulted, the recent alums don't want the Golden Eagle insulted. Is it really surprising that younger alumni react with such dismissiveness and judgement? Two of the most reoccurring topics on here are "f*ck the Golden Eagle" and "the current student section sucks."
My 2 cents as a Class of 2010 alum:
I would love it if our official nickname is the Warriors. I will still chant "Lets Go Warriors" at games, and wear shirts that bear the name Warriors and the old logo.
I think Golden Eagles is a fairly lame nickname, but I am ok with it, really won't complain about it. Think we could have done better, but won't get worked up about it.
Now, the changing of the golden eagle logo I think was absurd. The old logo was fine and original. The new one, does look like a furry chicken, and is unoriginal. My assumption when people are making fun of "furry chicken" is in regards to the logo and not the actual nickname itself. I never heard this reference prior to the golden eagle logo changing. I refuse to purchase any MU apparel with this new logo because I think its ugly and unoriginal.
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The furry chicken and chicken-hawk comments are about the mascot, not the logo. It looks like the chicken hawk from the old foghorn leghorn cartoons. My problem with new eagle logo is that it looks exactly like the logo Southern Miss uses.
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We identify with it. We are proud to be Golden Eagles. When we hear older alumni, who we look up to, trash the mascot, it hurts.
If that really hurts you, I'm not sure how you function as an adult.
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I asked the gal last night that called from MU about the nickname. Said it still is asked. I will be making a donation, but it chaps my ass the decision they made. Just because one earned a solid education, doesn't mean you have to support everything the school does, either. One way to do that is with the wallet. That being said, I donate, but I donate to my other alma maters, too, when I didn't use to do that. And yes, part of it is because of the decision that was made. Not because of the PC part of it, but because a very simple solution was easily EASILY EASILY achieved. The fact that it wasn't to this day bothers me about the competency of the university at times.
You sound like a spiteful individual there
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That's my point TAMU. We Warriors are dying or dribbling. At some point, we need to move on.
If I thought there was any way in which the Warriors could come back, I'd use my limited, limited influence to help facilitate it. But it aint gonna happen and to your point, there are thousands of Golden Eagle alums who feel about the Eagle the way we felt about the Warrior.
I love our team but our mascot is still a damn furry bird.
Golden Eagles is ALL GOOD with me. But I still wish we had a real one that flew around the BMO BC and dive bombed Cooley. Them's bad@ss birds.
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If that really hurts you, I'm not sure how you function as an adult.
I function just fine. Still ticks me off.
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Eagles all around the globe are offended by the nickname. They just can't voice their displeasure, ai na?
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I love our team but our mascot is still a damn furry bird.
You might be onto something there...just drop one "r" and we could be the Fury Birds. Certainly unique. Somebody could probably design a pretty bad-ass Fury Bird mascot.
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You might be onto something there...just drop one "r" and we could be the Fury Birds. Certainly unique. Somebody could probably design a pretty bad-ass Fury Bird mascot.
Or...playing on the "Fury" theme, how about a nod to a classic film...coincidentally called...The Warriors. Maybe we could be the Basketball Furies.
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Things have gotten a little personal here....
Some of us may have liked to be Warriors (myself included), but the vast majority of us like the Golden Eagle mascot. We identify with it. We are proud to be Golden Eagles. When we hear older alumni, who we look up to, trash the mascot, it hurts. Every time an alumni calls it a furry chicken or says that we are always the Warriors and will never support the Golden Eagle, it feels like an attack on our school. It also feels like we are being put into "2nd class alumni" status. Try to imagine how defensive the older alumni get about the Warriors. The younger alumni feel that way about the Golden Eagles.
TAMU, I graduated last year in 2015, I am a warrior and will always be a warrior. I have never had or purchased an article of clothing with the Golden Eagle on it. I don't know where this vast generalization of people post 94 identify with the golden eagles cause we dont.
Go to the spirit shop, 95% of the gear there only says Marquette, no mention of the Golden eagles. I won't complain saying we NEED to go back to the Warriors cause I know that will not happen, but that doesn't mean a lot of the undergrad student body doesn't identify with the Warriors in some way.
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TAMU, I graduated last year in 2015, I am a warrior and will always be a warrior. I have never had or purchased an article of clothing with the Golden Eagle on it. I don't know where this vast generalization of people post 94 identify with the golden eagles cause we dont.
Go to the spirit shop, 95% of the gear there only says Marquette, no mention of the Golden eagles. I won't complain saying we NEED to go back to the Warriors cause I know that will not happen, but that doesn't mean a lot of the undergrad student body doesn't identify with the Warriors in some way.
My personal experience says difference. I'm not just talking about students who are huge basketball fans. I'm talking about all the students who are diehards, casual, and non basketball fans. Go to a soccer game or volleyball game. You'll see Golden Eagles everywhere. Basketball is the only sport that avoids it, which is a mistake IMHO.
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My personal experience says difference. I'm not just talking about students who are huge basketball fans. I'm talking about all the students who are diehards, casual, and non basketball fans. Go to a soccer game or volleyball game. You'll see Golden Eagles everywhere. Basketball is the only sport that avoids it, which is a mistake IMHO.
Don't want to lecture, but there is a lot more to the Warrior aura than the nickname. Marquette Warrior Basketball in the late 60s and 70s gave a collective middle finger to all that was socially unjust in the Establishment of the times. Let's leave that respect untouched to those players and alumni from that time as it was much more involved for them than those of us who followed know.
Included in that was dumping the paper mache mascot in 1971.
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Evil touched on a very significant point. For those of us who lived it, we know the Warriors personified the anti-establishment movement of the times, ai na?
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You sound like a spiteful individual there
I try not to reward stupidity. If that is spiteful, oh well.
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You sound like a spiteful individual there
That is not spiteful. The whole process was a sellout. Chicos is right imo.
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I played the game when it was pure back in nineteen hundred and fifty two. An entire team of men would assemble as gentlemen friends on the court and we would strap our legs together with crude leather harnesses. We'd sing hymns and twirl in circles for hours on end. Our skin would shine like freshly pressed mayonnaise. Oh how it would shine! 32 hours later, we would allow God to place an image of the sacred hoop into our minds and we would slowly shuffle up and down the court in unison. Whosoever had the ball, which was, in those days, a hefty head of lettuce, in his hands, would politely deposit the ball into the rim and we would all have to shout, THANK YOU UNCLE SAM! We'd then genuflect in the direction of our parents and shed one tear. The game would go on like this until the good Lord decided who won.
I can barely follow the action of today's games. Fierce men with last names that look like car crashes punishing the Lord our God's rim with hands so large they could pluck the sun from the sky. I mourn for our future, where there will be no polite layups of lettuce balls slurping off of the clammy hands of mayonnaise-skinned gentlemen friends. Only thunderdunks and caustic sweat. What a world.
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My personal experience says difference. I'm not just talking about students who are huge basketball fans. I'm talking about all the students who are diehards, casual, and non basketball fans. Go to a soccer game or volleyball game. You'll see Golden Eagles everywhere. Basketball is the only sport that avoids it, which is a mistake IMHO.
Fine. Let the soccer teams and the volleyball teams be Golden Eagles if that's what floats their boats. Who cares? And who cares what the "casual" and "non basketball" fans think about the basketball team's nickname? No more relevant than my opinion of what we should call the debate team.
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I played the game when it was pure back in nineteen hundred and fifty two. An entire team of men would assemble as gentlemen friends on the court and we would strap our legs together with crude leather harnesses. We'd sing hymns and twirl in circles for hours on end. Our skin would shine like freshly pressed mayonnaise. Oh how it would shine! 32 hours later, we would allow God to place an image of the sacred hoop into our minds and we would slowly shuffle up and down the court in unison. Whosoever had the ball, which was, in those days, a hefty head of lettuce, in his hands, would politely deposit the ball into the rim and we would all have to shout, THANK YOU UNCLE SAM! We'd then genuflect in the direction of our parents and shed one tear. The game would go on like this until the good Lord decided who won.
I can barely follow the action of today's games. Fierce men with last names that look like car crashes punishing the Lord our God's rim with hands so large the could pluck the sun from the sky. I mourn for our future, where there will be no polite layups of lettuce balls slurping off of the clammy hands of mayonnaise-skinned gentlemen friends. Only thunderdunks and caustic sweat. What a world.
Hate to steal a line from my friend Keefe, but THIS is an example of why I so love Scoop.
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Don't want to lecture, but there is a lot more to the Warrior aura than the nickname. Marquette Warrior Basketball in the late 60s and 70s gave a collective middle finger to all that was socially unjust in the Establishment of the times. Let's leave that respect untouched to those players and alumni from that time as it was much more involved for them than those of us who followed know.
Included in that was dumping the paper mache mascot in 1971.
Nailed it, Doctor. Those "Warriors" we're too proud, too black, too juco, too arrogant and too "just win, baby" for the establishment (i.e., NCAA). Sadly, some of our present fans would agree.
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I played the game when it was pure back in nineteen hundred and fifty two. An entire team of men would assemble as gentlemen friends on the court and we would strap our legs together with crude leather harnesses. We'd sing hymns and twirl in circles for hours on end. Our skin would shine like freshly pressed mayonnaise. Oh how it would shine! 32 hours later, we would allow God to place an image of the sacred hoop into our minds and we would slowly shuffle up and down the court in unison. Whosoever had the ball, which was, in those days, a hefty head of lettuce, in his hands, would politely deposit the ball into the rim and we would all have to shout, THANK YOU UNCLE SAM! We'd then genuflect in the direction of our parents and shed one tear. The game would go on like this until the good Lord decided who won.
I can barely follow the action of today's games. Fierce men with last names that look like car crashes punishing the Lord our God's rim with hands so large they could pluck the sun from the sky. I mourn for our future, where there will be no polite layups of lettuce balls slurping off of the clammy hands of mayonnaise-skinned gentlemen friends. Only thunderdunks and caustic sweat. What a world.
There goes ZFB, hiring UW alums to ghost-write for him again.
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There goes ZFB, hiring UW alums to ghost-write for him again.
Stolen shamelessly from the comments section of a dead spin article.
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Dudes (& dames)....it's time to move on....
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I wonder if he's still tying flies.
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I wonder if he's still tying flies.
http://www.roycedam.com/
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Dudes (& dames)....it's time to move on....
Solid necro job on this thread. Grats.
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http://www.roycedam.com/
Thanks. Christmas gifts...check.
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our mascot is still a damn furry bird.
We should take solace in the fact that in this clean shaven age our mascot still sports fur.
Somehow, it harkens back to a better time when our coach thumbed his nose at the world and we played in a cozier home that delivered competitive advantage. An age when our warriors were feared and we were always victorious. And as the tom tom beat faded we repaired back to our hogans and wigwams to find comfort in the musky richness of fur bearing friendship.
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I wonder if he's still tying flies.
I called him a few years ago after reading about him from Scoop. He talked for an hour about everything from fly fishing to his combat experience on Iwo Jima.
I bought some of his nymphs for use on the Deschutes.
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We should take solace in the fact that in this clean shaven age our mascot still sports fur.
Somehow, it harkens back to a better time when our coach thumbed his nose at the world and we played in a cozier home that delivered competitive advantage. An age when our warriors were feared and we were always victorious. And as the tom tom beat faded we repaired back to our hogans and wigwams to find comfort in the musky richness of fur bearing friendship.
I remember the arena so well, being right on top of the action. What a great home court advantage in those days. I started going to games in the early 60's when my cousin Rob Hornak played for Hickey, I was hooked ever since.
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I called him a few years ago after reading about him from Scoop. He talked for an hour about everything from fly fishing to his combat experience on Iwo Jima.
I bought some of his nymphs for use on the Deschutes.
Geography and fly fishing education in one post. Thanks to the post and the Internet, I am now more informed, generally speaking.
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I voted for Lightning as the mascot and was surprised when Golden Eagles "won." But after all of these years, I still think like most alums that Warriors is the better name. And I've moved on and don't really think much of it anymore. As I get older I find there are more pressing things to worry about.
If I had a choice between another Final Four or changing the name back to Warriors, I'd pick Final Four every time.
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If I had a choice between another Final Four or changing the name back to Warriors, I'd pick Final Four every time.
I would add world peace and winning $300,000,000.00 in Powerball to things I would pick over changing our name back to Warriors. Of course if that 300 mil comes my way I'd readily part with 50 of it to bring it back.
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Curious as to people's thoughts on this.
There are two things that keep coming up on the wish list for MU fans, but will never happen: 1. Bringing back the Warriors nickname, and 2. Bringing back D-1 football.
If you had the ability to make one or the other happen - totally ignoring politics and cost, and only focusing on the result - which would it be?
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Curious as to people's thoughts on this.
There are two things that keep coming up on the wish list for MU fans, but will never happen: 1. Bringing back the Warriors nickname, and 2. Bringing back D-1 football.
If you had the ability to make one or the other happen - totally ignoring politics and cost, and only focusing on the result - which would it be?
If I had to pick, simple: WARRIORS!
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Since this damn thing won't die, how about a bit of a twist?
NCAA looks the other way when a mascot references a specific tribe and said tribe has ok'd the use of their tribal name/mascot (e.g. Florida State, Utah, Illinois, etc.). Because "Warriors" generally references all Native American tribes (and not a specific tribe), NCAA has essentially prohibited its use even if it's still theoretically possible under certain circumstances (i.e. since the logistics of getting every Native American tribe to ok "Warriors" is logistically impossible).
Hypothetically, what if Warriors became the "Potawatomi Warriors" on the condition that MU's new logo be along the lines of the flame in:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqPmx8DeUxDfrKcWiFGX4Rw0QB6aYCC82QyOvulkEbA2ELR9RtmA)
Or some derivation thereof that basically gives the casino product placement on thirty-some regional/national TV broadcasts every year.
Would anyone be content with the potential quasi-commercialization (read: selling out) of MUBB in order to gain the Warriors nickname back?
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Curious as to people's thoughts on this.
There are two things that keep coming up on the wish list for MU fans, but will never happen: 1. Bringing back the Warriors nickname, and 2. Bringing back D-1 football.
If you had the ability to make one or the other happen - totally ignoring politics and cost, and only focusing on the result - which would it be?
Warriors.
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Curious as to people's thoughts on this.
There are two things that keep coming up on the wish list for MU fans, but will never happen: 1. Bringing back the Warriors nickname, and 2. Bringing back D-1 football a football team that goes to a major bowl every year and plays their home games in an amazing state of the art stadium on campus.
If you had the ability to make one or the other happen - totally ignoring politics and cost, and only focusing on the result - which would it be?
FIFY
Hey, if you are going into Fantasyland, you may as well go all the way.
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FIFY
Hey, if you are going into Fantasyland, you may as well go all the way.
If I was going all the way, the Warriors option would have included Hologram Al.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/j7N0GKEWqZxNC/giphy.gif)
Damnit, they took down the archives of the JS article. Curse you, Gannett media.
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Damnit, they took down the archives of the JS article. Curse you, Gannett media.
I think I took some screen shots, if I can find them, I'll post a PDF.
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Gannett has been utterly horrible to the MJS. I don't even read anymore. Taking down the archives totally sucks.
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Gannett has been utterly horrible to the MJS. I don't even read anymore. Taking down the archives totally sucks.
Gannett has been horrible to every newspaper they buy. It has become a bunch of mini USA Todays with a skeleton crew adding minimal local news coverage.
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OK, my annual rant. I'm a Warrior, not a Golden Eagle. The name reflected not just Wisconsin's heritage but also the bad ass attitude on campus that we had. We were Warriors.
First and foremost, Warriors isn't coming back. Not as long as there is an NCAA. You have a better chance of paying our basketball players a market rate for their services than you do of getting the Warrior back.
Secondly, we Warriors are dying off. The people who remember the glory years are in or near their 60s. Face it, we will be dead in a few years. Already, I'm almost willing to bet there are as many grads who know us as Golden Eagles (Furry Birds?) as there are alums who know us as Warriors.
Thirdly, we can't keep living in the past. Honor Coach Al, our players and our accomplishments, but gang, it is time to move on. I'm as excited about the next national championship (coming soon to a Marquette arena near you) as I am the last one.
Let's move on.
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Amen brother dgies.
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Let's move on.
Never! We are the Marquette Warriors. I don't wear the chicken stuff.
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First and foremost, Warriors isn't coming back. Not as long as there is an NCAA. You have a better chance of paying our basketball players a market rate for their services than you do of getting the Warrior back.
Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Has to do with the Native Indian nations and the Jesuits. As long as the mascot and logo had nothing to do with Native American Indians, the NCAA could give a wit as the Warrior name is not "offensive" by itself. But, alas, that will not happen. Forever Warriors!
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Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Has to do with the Native Indian nations and the Jesuits. As long as the mascot and logo had nothing to do with Native American Indians, the NCAA could give a wit as the Warrior name is not "offensive" by itself. But, alas, that will not happen. Forever Warriors!
As I have said many times, had Marquette dumped the Native imagery all together when they dumped Willie Wampum, we'd still be Warriors today. It was the 20 years of trying to "respectfully" use Native imagery that killed it. Those efforts seem very naive in retrospect.
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As I have said many times, had Marquette dumped the Native imagery all together when they dumped Willie Wampum, we'd still be Warriors today. It was the 20 years of trying to "respectfully" use Native imagery that killed it. Those efforts seem very naive in retrospect.
Yep.
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Never! We are the Marquette Warriors. I don't wear the chicken stuff.
Yup.
Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Has to do with the Native Indian nations and the Jesuits. As long as the mascot and logo had nothing to do with Native American Indians, the NCAA could give a wit as the Warrior name is not "offensive" by itself. But, alas, that will not happen. Forever Warriors!
Yup.
As I have said many times, had Marquette dumped the Native imagery all together when they dumped Willie Wampum, we'd still be Warriors today. It was the 20 years of trying to "respectfully" use Native imagery that killed it. Those efforts seem very naive in retrospect.
Yup.
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Doesn't it really have to do with accepting an alleged payoff from the Potawatomi? Has anyone really seen proof that this transaction took place?
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Were we the Warriors or the Golden Eagles in the 94 sweet 16?
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Were we the Warriors or the Golden Eagles in the 94 sweet 16?
Warriors
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"F" the people who changed the name. WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS, WARRIORS.
Will never change. Still Wear my "Warrior" T-shirt.
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As I have said many times, had Marquette dumped the Native imagery all together when they dumped Willie Wampum, we'd still be Warriors today. It was the 20 years of trying to "respectfully" use Native imagery that killed it. Those efforts seem very naive in retrospect.
I think its a bit of a chicken and egg type thing. I think the above is true. But I also think that if Willie Wampum had never existed and we had always used respectful imagery, we might have been able to keep Warriors as well. It was the combination of both that killed us.
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I think its a bit of a chicken and egg type thing. I think the above is true. But I also think that if Willie Wampum had never existed and we had always used respectful imagery, we might have been able to keep Warriors as well. It was the combination of both that killed us.
Doubt that. MU would have been swept into the overall negativism re Native American imagery. Sultan is spot on here.
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Forever Warriors, that is all, ai na?
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Has nothing to do with the NCAA. Has to do with the Native Indian nations and the Jesuits. As long as the mascot and logo had nothing to do with Native American Indians, the NCAA could give a wit as the Warrior name is not "offensive" by itself. But, alas, that will not happen. Forever Warriors!
That's baloney.
We could change the imagery all we wanted but when your university is named after Father Jacques Marquette and his guide is a Native American, you'll never escape the presumption that the imagery is Native American. The NCAA strongly objects, for some strange reason, to Native American imagery without some kind of tribal blessing -- a blessing usually accompanied by a large contribution to tribal welfare.
Without the Native American imagery, we lose our tie to Wisconsin and the Upper Midwest. Period. At that point, there's no difference between Warriors, Golden Eagles, Lightening or, as I wanted, Inquisition or Flames!
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That's baloney.
We could change the imagery all we wanted but when your university is named after Father Jacques Marquette and his guide is a Native American, you'll never escape the presumption that the imagery is Native American. The NCAA strongly objects, for some strange reason, to Native American imagery without some kind of tribal blessing -- a blessing usually accompanied by a large contribution to tribal welfare.
Without the Native American imagery, we lose our tie to Wisconsin and the Upper Midwest. Period. At that point, there's no difference between Warriors, Golden Eagles, Lightening or, as I wanted, Inquisition or Flames!
If, in 1971, Marquette replaced its imagery to something like this:
(http://www.naccsports.org/images/story_main/WisconsinLutheran.jpg)
(A college from Wisconsin...right down the road from Marquette.)
or this:
(http://img.mcla.us/teams/logos/128/574.png)
(Another college from the upper midwest.)
Everything would have been fine.
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Or this...
(https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/3bPDH-Kw_CCIokjsU7358Q/348s.jpg)
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Not the same article, but a Hofmann piece with his thoughts - attached.
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If, in 1971, Marquette replaced its imagery to something like this:
(http://www.naccsports.org/images/story_main/WisconsinLutheran.jpg)
(A college from Wisconsin...right down the road from Marquette.)
or this:
(http://img.mcla.us/teams/logos/128/574.png)
(Another college from the upper midwest.)
Everything would have been fine.
Wrongo, my friend!
You are missing the point. The reason for the Warrior name for us was the Native American support to Father Marquette. Take the Native American out of the equation and you have a name and symbolism that, as I said, had no tie to the historical roots of Marquette University.
That's why I recommended Inquisition or Flames. Both have distant ties to the founders of the university!!!!!!!!!!
Please understand, I'll always be a Warrior. But it aint going to happen and the NCAA was not going to let us keep Warriors unless we denied our heritage.
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You are missing the point. The reason for the Warrior name for us was the Native American support to Father Marquette. Take the Native American out of the equation and you have a name and symbolism that, as I said, had no tie to the historical roots of Marquette University.
You mean to reference the relocation of the Boston Braves to Milwaukee if you are searching for the historical roots...
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Wrongo, my friend!
You are missing the point. The reason for the Warrior name for us was the Native American support to Father Marquette. Take the Native American out of the equation and you have a name and symbolism that, as I said, had no tie to the historical roots of Marquette University.
The nickname may have started as a nod to that, but that doesn't mean it had to remain that way. Nicknames rarely have such a connection to their school. You give MU a different imagery, and they go on to win the national championship with that imagery in 1977, no one would care about the lack of connection with the historic roots of the school.
Case in point: UW-Madison. Wisconsin was named the Badger State because of a nickname given to the early lead miners in the southwest part of the state. It doesn't use that imagery. It barely uses the animal badger any longer.
That's why I recommended Inquisition or Flames. Both have distant ties to the founders of the university!!!!!!!!!!
Yes. I am sure naming the school after the Inquisition would have gone over well.
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Doesn't it really have to do with accepting an alleged payoff from the Potawatomi? Has anyone really seen proof that this transaction took place?
Someone should go down to the Register of Deeds and run a title search on the land.
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Wrongo, my friend!
You are missing the point. The reason for the Warrior name for us was the Native American support to Father Marquette. Take the Native American out of the equation and you have a name and symbolism that, as I said, had no tie to the historical roots of Marquette University.
That's why I recommended Inquisition or Flames. Both have distant ties to the founders of the university!!!!!!!!!!
Please understand, I'll always be a Warrior. But it aint going to happen and the NCAA was not going to let us keep Warriors unless we denied our heritage.
What ties does Marquette have to a golden eagle/chicken thing?
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Doubt that. MU would have been swept into the overall negativism re Native American imagery. Sultan is spot on here.
But that didn't start until 9 years later. If mu had already changed to a non native imagery by 1994 than I don't think anyone would have remembered in 2003. Hell we probably would have been praised
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But that didn't start until 9 years later. If mu had already changed to a non native imagery by 1994 than I don't think anyone would have remembered in 2003. Hell we probably would have been praised
Ok. By "respectful imagery", I thought you meant respectful Native Indian imagery as opposed to non-native imagery.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif)
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif)
I am a Warrior and I'm not dead yet. I'm sure PITA thinks that GIF is more offensive than a Warrior mascot of native american imagery.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif)
"If you don't like it, don't read it. There are countless other posts on the Interwebs that might not offend your sensibilities as much."
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Sultan 1, Chick 0
Time for popcorn!
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I am a Warrior and I'm not dead yet. I'm sure PITA thinks that GIF is more offensive than a Warrior mascot of native american imagery.
Friend, it's PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals
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Sultan 1, Chick 0
Time for popcorn!
Oh no no no. I have nothing against the chickster. Just trying to be funny.
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Friend, it's PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals
Most of this board thinks I'm a PITA.
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Oh no no no. I have nothing against the chickster. Just trying to be funny.
And it was.
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Friend, it's PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals
What if they ate them in a pita?
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And it was.
I know. Just gigging both of you. ;D
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What if they ate them in a pita?
Double nummy. PETA invented the gyro.
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Oh no no no. I have nothing against the chickster. Just trying to be funny.
In that case, the score is:
Chick 348, Sultan 0
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In that case, the score is:
Chick 348, Sultan 0
Undoubtedly.
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Ok. By "respectful imagery", I thought you meant respectful Native Indian imagery as opposed to non-native imagery.
I meant if we used respectful imagery until 1994 and then switched to non-native image without ever having Willie Wampum.
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I know. Just gigging both of you. ;D
Did someone say gigging?
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/348363/gigem.jpg)
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Yes. I am sure naming the school after the Inquisition would have gone over well.
Understand my thought process:
The historical Inquisition was at least implemented if not started by the Jesuits. We could burn a heretic at the stake at halftime.
The Flames was a tortured reference St. Joan of Arc chapel, the centerpiece of our campus.
Makes about as much sense as a damn Furry Bird, which I admit has no identity with Wisconsin or the Upper Midwest.
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I think its a bit of a chicken and egg type thing. I think the above is true. But I also think that if Willie Wampum had never existed and we had always used respectful imagery, we might have been able to keep Warriors as well. It was the combination of both that killed us.
Agreed. 100%.
Ole Willie killed the Warrior.
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Understand my thought process:
The historical Inquisition was at least implemented if not started by the Jesuits. We could burn a heretic at the stake at halftime.
The Flames was a tortured reference St. Joan of Arc chapel, the centerpiece of our campus.
Makes about as much sense as a damn Furry Bird, which I admit has no identity with Wisconsin or the Upper Midwest.
Hmmm.... given MU's track record with the LGBTQC+ community, I'm not sure "Flames" would have went over well either.
Which poses an interesting question... which nickname - in and of itself - would be more offensive in the context of today's society, Warriors or Flames?
[Hint: The answer is neither.]
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We should've just nicknamed ourselves the Germans.
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Biggest mistake you guys ever made.
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We should've just nicknamed ourselves the Germans.
Hmmm...naming ourselves the Germans in the middle of WWI. I don't know why that didn't happen.
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Which poses an interesting question... which nickname - in and of itself - would be more offensive in the context of today's society, Warriors or Flames?
[Hint: The answer is neither.]
That's why I liked the Marquette Inquisition!
I can see Homer: "The Inquisition is playing a really tortured game tonight..."
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Two dozen years of travesty, today.
Let's just build the new stadium locker rooms with the right logo and close this awful chapter of mascot history.
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Two dozen years of travesty, today.
Let's just build the new stadium locker rooms with the right logo and close this awful chapter of mascot history.
You thinking Jumpin' Jesuits?
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As always. A quick google search will return the ability to buy MU Warriors tshirt as well as MU Warriors flags.
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Did people seriously suggest Flames as an homage to Joan of Arc?
Let's go all the way and call ourselves the Dysentery to commemorate Fr. Marquette's cause of death.
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Did people seriously suggest Flames as an homage to Joan of Arc?
Let's go all the way and call ourselves the Dysentery to commemorate Fr. Marquette's cause of death.
Mr. Hankey as our mascot?
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Two dozen years of travesty, today.
Let's just build the new stadium locker rooms with the right logo and close this awful chapter of mascot history.
Hmm...a Jumpin Jesuit with Dysentery and Flames coming out his derriere.
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Did people seriously suggest Flames as an homage to Joan of Arc?
Let's go all the way and call ourselves the Dysentery to commemorate Fr. Marquette's cause of death.
Just me Chick.
I really suggested the Flames when the university asked for ideas to replace the Warrior.
I'd hate to see the mascot of the Marquette Dysentery. At least it would not be a frickin furry bird!!!!!
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Hmmm...naming ourselves the Germans in the middle of WWI. I don't know why that didn't happen.
Too formal. Could have gone with "The Huns", though.
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Just me Chick.
I really suggested the Flames when the university asked for ideas to replace the Warrior.
I'd hate to see the mascot of the Marquette Dysentery. At least it would not be a frickin furry bird!!!!!
I keep seeing that Farmer's Insurance commercial with the Flame Mascot is on fire riding in a convertible in a parade and he doesn't believe the parade watchers that he's really on fire.
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25 long years of travesty.
The arc of the logo universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
Warriors forever!
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Do you have a reminder on your calendar to bump this thread every year?
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Do you have a reminder on your calendar to bump this thread every year?
Who doesn't have a daily countdown going every day of the year for this?
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When this thing went down I was a couple years out of MU....I, along with a few other people threw in some money and we paid for a billboard on I-94 NB south of MKE. The billboard had the image of a Sturgeon and the caption was
"If it can't be the Warriors it has to be the Sturgeon"
Sponsored by the Society for the preservation of the Sturgeon....
All done very tongue in cheek... Well one of the Milwaukee radio stations found out who did this and they interviewed me. I played it so straight.... Going on about the society for the preservation of the Sturgeon and how the Sturgeon was a mighty and noble fish....Stanford is the Cardinal, MU should be the Sturgeon...Blah blah blah....Stupid I know but at the time it provided a bit of humor....
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25 long years of travesty.
The arc of the logo universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
Warriors forever!
+1. When the Warriors glorious history is written our era as the Politically Correct Eunuchs will be but a small (albeit embarrassing) footnote.
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When this thing went down I was a couple years out of MU....I, along with a few other people threw in some money and we paid for a billboard on I-94 NB south of MKE. The billboard had the image of a Sturgeon and the caption was
"If it can't be the Warriors it has to be the Sturgeon"
Sponsored by the Society for the preservation of the Sturgeon....
All done very tongue in cheek... Well one of the Milwaukee radio stations found out who did this and they interviewed me. I played it so straight.... Going on about the society for the preservation of the Sturgeon and how the Sturgeon was a mighty and noble fish....Stanford is the Cardinal, MU should be the Sturgeon...Blah blah blah....Stupid I know but at the time it provided a bit of humor....
Classic.
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Guarantee there are folks on this board who PRAISE the name change. Sad!
#WarriorsForever
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I think I have repressed memory syndrome, but how did we wind up with the Golden Chicken again? I remember why we dropped Warriors and I remember the Gold debacle, but not how we wound up with this jewel. What's the connection?
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When this thing went down I was a couple years out of MU....I, along with a few other people threw in some money and we paid for a billboard on I-94 NB south of MKE. The billboard had the image of a Sturgeon and the caption was
"If it can't be the Warriors it has to be the Sturgeon"
Sponsored by the Society for the preservation of the Sturgeon....
All done very tongue in cheek... Well one of the Milwaukee radio stations found out who did this and they interviewed me. I played it so straight.... Going on about the society for the preservation of the Sturgeon and how the Sturgeon was a mighty and noble fish....Stanford is the Cardinal, MU should be the Sturgeon...Blah blah blah....Stupid I know but at the time it provided a bit of humor....
Love it, manny. You didn't save a recording of the interview, did you? Any pix of the billboard?
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When this thing went down I was a couple years out of MU....I, along with a few other people threw in some money and we paid for a billboard on I-94 NB south of MKE. The billboard had the image of a Sturgeon and the caption was
"If it can't be the Warriors it has to be the Sturgeon"
Sponsored by the Society for the preservation of the Sturgeon....
All done very tongue in cheek... Well one of the Milwaukee radio stations found out who did this and they interviewed me. I played it so straight.... Going on about the society for the preservation of the Sturgeon and how the Sturgeon was a mighty and noble fish....Stanford is the Cardinal, MU should be the Sturgeon...Blah blah blah....Stupid I know but at the time it provided a bit of humor....
For the record, the Stanford Cardinal refers to the color, not the bird.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IMJcSI8p6hYQXS/giphy.gif)
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Has the BOT ever admitted that they made the name change because of a big fat check the Casino gave them?
Probably not....
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I think I have repressed memory syndrome, but how did we wind up with the Golden Chicken again? I remember why we dropped Warriors and I remember the Gold debacle, but not how we wound up with this jewel. What's the connection?
The school rigged it so us students could vote b/w only a couple of weak options. Lightning?! C’mon. I wanted Hilltoppers at the time.
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+1. When the Warriors glorious history is written our era as the Politically Correct Eunuchs will be but a small (albeit embarrassing) footnote.
I don't think we're changing back so I don't think we can call the Golden Eagle era a footnote. Unless we change names again we will be the Golden Eagles for longer than we were the Warriors.
The small and embarrassing footnote will be Willie Wampum. Yeesh.
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I love the fact that sportswriters, commentators and even opposing fans still sometimes refer to us as Warriors.
As for Willie Wampum - sure he looks bad through today's lens, but that type of caricature wasn't always viewed through today's lens. The right thing would have been to get rid of the mascot, keep the nickname and move forward.
And if they really needed a Plan B, they should have just gone back to Hilltoppers and stuck with it.
Much of the (well deserved) criticism comes from the misguided efforts to make students and alumni think we had a voice (the solicitations of stakeholder feedback, fake "votes" and such) when the intention was simply to change.
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The school rigged it so us students could vote b/w only a couple of weak options. Lightning?! C’mon. I wanted Hilltoppers at the time.
But what is the linkage to Marquette, the Jesuits, Fr. Marquette, Milwaukee, the Potawatomi? The Golden Eagle is primarily a Western States bird, with some nesting on the Mississippi in western Wisconsin. Does the GE have some significance to the Potowatomi since they donated Valley Fields.
I ask because I don't see/am aware of any historical, symbolic, emotional or heritage link to SE Wisconsin or the university. Where did they come up with this particular nickname?
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I love the fact that sportswriters, commentators and even opposing fans still sometimes refer to us as Warriors.
As for Willie Wampum - sure he looks bad through today's lens, but that type of caricature wasn't always viewed through today's lens. The right thing would have been to get rid of the mascot, keep the nickname and move forward.
And if they really needed a Plan B, they should have just gone back to Hilltoppers and stuck with it.
Much of the (well deserved) criticism comes from the misguided efforts to make students and alumni think we had a voice (the solicitations of stakeholder feedback, fake "votes" and such) when the intention was simply to change.
It was the Russians practicing for future elections
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It's GOLD, Jerry, GOLD!"
Go Warriors!
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Love it, manny. You didn't save a recording of the interview, did you? Any pix of the billboard?
I had one for a long time, I lost track of it though. I will make some inquiries to other members of the society.
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For the record, the Stanford Cardinal refers to the color, not the bird.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IMJcSI8p6hYQXS/giphy.gif)
I know that.....Not.
I always thought it was the Cardinal because they were being pretentious. In the vein of “The” Ohio State University.
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The first definition of "cardinal" is "of prime importance; chief; principal."
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I don't think we're changing back so I don't think we can call the Golden Eagle era a footnote. Unless we change names again we will be the Golden Eagles for longer than we were the Warriors.
The small and embarrassing footnote will be Willie Wampum. Yeesh.
I knew Willie Wampum and he was a really good student, friend and Warrior; not a footnote.
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25 long years of travesty.
The arc of the logo universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
Warriors forever!
You should memorialize this day as WarriorScoop day.
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But what is the linkage to Marquette, the Jesuits, Fr. Marquette, Milwaukee, the Potawatomi? The Golden Eagle is primarily a Western States bird, with some nesting on the Mississippi in western Wisconsin. Does the GE have some significance to the Potowatomi since they donated Valley Fields.
I ask because I don't see/am aware of any historical, symbolic, emotional or heritage link to SE Wisconsin or the university. Where did they come up with this particular nickname?
I don't think Golden Eagles has any particular significance, they just wanted us to get rid of Warriors. Lightning would have been fine with them too.
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But what is the linkage to Marquette, the Jesuits, Fr. Marquette, Milwaukee, the Potawatomi? The Golden Eagle is primarily a Western States bird, with some nesting on the Mississippi in western Wisconsin. Does the GE have some significance to the Potowatomi since they donated Valley Fields.
I ask because I don't see/am aware of any historical, symbolic, emotional or heritage link to SE Wisconsin or the university. Where did they come up with this particular nickname?
It was a tribute to newly acquired QB Brett Favre's alma mater.
I recall there being (and I'm sure there still are), TONS of Golden Eagles in the college and high school ranks.. they probably pulled it out of a 'most popular mascot' book.. had to have been a top 5 listing.
So dumb. Glad I have a student ID that has Warriors all over it, but it's a bitter joy to look at it. #WarriorsForever.
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It was a tribute to newly acquired QB Brett Favre's alma mater.
I recall there being (and I'm sure there still are), TONS of Golden Eagles in the college and high school ranks.. they probably pulled it out of a 'most popular mascot' book.. had to have been a top 5 listing.
So dumb. Glad I have a student ID that has Warriors all over it, but it's a bitter joy to look at it. #WarriorsForever.
Actually, there are only 4 D1 schools - just us, USM, Tennessee Tech, and Oral Roberts.
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Actually, there are only 4 D1 schools - just us, USM, Tennessee Tech, and Oral Roberts.
That’s a lot in DI.. where does 4 rank? (PS-the comment was re: “colleges and high schools”, so the DI info is a small piece, but gotta be a top 5, yaaas?)
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I knew Willie Wampum and he was a really good student, friend and Warrior; not a footnote.
I'm sure the student who played him was. The character was just a racist caricature.
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That’s a lot in DI.. where does 4 rank? (PS-the comment was re: “colleges and high schools”, so the DI info is a small piece, but gotta be a top 5, yaaas?)
Eagles is number 1, but that may or not include Golden. My intuitive sense is that most Eagles are not Golden. According to Wikipedia:
“The 12 most-used names of four-year college teams (exclusive of names with attached adjectives such as “Blue”, “Golden”, “Flying” or “Fighting”): Eagles (76), Tigers (46), Bulldogs (40), Panthers (33), Knights (32), Lions (32), Bears (30), Hawks (28), Cougars (27), Pioneers (28), Warriors (27) and Wildcats (27).”
But it is a generic nickname.
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I'm sure the student who played him was. The character was just a racist caricature.
Wouldn’t your claim be that the student was being racist?
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Actually, there are only 4 D1 schools - just us, USM, Tennessee Tech, and Oral Roberts.
True, only 4 Golden Eagles...but if you added other Eagles, the number jumps considerably. Distinguishing them is like distinguishing the Baylor “Bears” from the Maine “Black Bears.”
If we had to change, we should have just gone back to Hilltoppers.
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Just one game a year, perhaps with Al's Night, MU should do a throw-back Thursday game with a Back to the 70's theme and make it a Warriors game. Bring out the Killer Bees uniforms ---but have them as warmups over the current ones--and have the team call themselves Wojos Warriors for one night. Just one night. Presto. Geezers like us will be happy. Sadly I graduated from two schools that made name changes after I left. University of North Dakota and Marquette. Fighting Hawk anyone?
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That’s a lot in DI.. where does 4 rank? (PS-the comment was re: “colleges and high schools”, so the DI info is a small piece, but gotta be a top 5, yaaas?)
I was bored on the crapper so I decided to look into this. Turns out Golden Eagles is not in the top 5, they aren't even in the top 10. They are tied with a few other schools for 12th.
1. 13 Bulldogs (Alabama A&M, Butler, The Citadel, Drake, Fresno State, Georgia, Gonzaga, Louisiana Tech, Mississippi State, Samford, South Carolina State, UNC Asheville, Yale)
2. 12 Tigers (Auburn, Clemson, Grambling State, Jackson State, LSU, Memphis, Missouri, Pacific, Princeton, Tennessee State, Texas Southern, Towson)
3. 10 Wildcats (Abilene Christian, Arizona, Bethune-Cookman, Davidson, Kansas State, Kentucky, New Hampshire, Northwestern, Villanova, Weber State)
4. 9 Eagles (American, Boston College, Coppin State, Eastern Michigan, Eastern Washington, Florida Gulf Coast, Morehead State, North Carolina Central, Winthrop)
5. 8 Panthers (Eastern Illinois, Florida International, Georgia State, High Point, Milwaukee, Northern Iowa, Pitt, Prairie View A&M)
6. 7 Bears (Baylor, Brown, Central Arkansas, Mercer, Missouri State, Morgan State, Northern Colorado)
T-7. 5 Aggies (New Mexico State, North Carolina A&T, Texas A&M, UC Davis, Utah State)
T-7. 5 Cougars (BYU, Chicago State, Houston, SIU-Edwardsville, Washington State)
T-7. 5 Hawks (Hartford, Maryland Eastern Shore, Monmouth, North Dakota, St. Joe's)
T-7. 5 Huskies (UConn, Houston Baptist, Northeastern, Northern Illinois, Washington)
T-7. 5 Spartans (Michigan State, Norfolk State, UNC Greensboro, San Jose State, South Carolina Upstate)
T-12. 4 Bobcats (Montana State, Ohio, Quinnipiac, Texas State)
T-12. 4 Cardinals (Ball State, Incarnate Word, Lamar, Louisville)
T-12. 4 Golden Eagles (Marquette, Oral Roberts, Southern Miss, Tennessee Tech)
T-12. 4 Lions (Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Columbia, Loyola Marymount, North Alabama)
T-12. 4 Owls (Florida Atlantic, Kennesaw State, Temple, Rice)
T-17. 3 Bearcats (Cincinnati, Binghamton, Sam Houston State)
T-17. 3 Bison (Bucknell, Howard, North Dakota State)
T-17. 3 Broncos (Boise State, Santa Clara, Western Michigan)
T-17. 3 Cowboys (McNeese State, Oklahoma State, Wyoming)
T-17. 3 Highlanders (NJIT, Radford, UC Riverside)
T-17. 3 Hornets (Alabama State, Delaware State, Sacramento State)
T-17. 3 Jaguars (IUPUI, South Alabama, Southern)
T-17. 3 Mountaineers (Appalachian State, Mount St. Mary's, West Virginia)
T-17. 3 Rams (Colorado State, Fordham, Rhode Island)
T-17. 3 Trojans (Little Rock, USC, Troy)
T-27. 2 49ers (UNC Charlotte, Long Beach State)
T-27. 2 Blue Devils (Central Connecticut, Duke)
T-27. 2 Braves (Alcorn State, Bradley)
T-27. 2 Bruins (Belmont, UCLA)
T-27. 2 Buccaneers (Charleston Southern, East Tennessee State)
T-27. 2 Colonials (George Washington, Robert Morris)
T-27. 2 Colonels (Eastern Kentucky, Nicholls State)
T-27. 2 Crusaders (Holy Cross, Valparaiso)
T-27. 2 Dukes (Duquesne, James Madison)
T-27. 2 Falcons (Air Force, Bowling Green)
T-27. 2 Flames (Liberty, UIC)
T-27. 2 Gaels (Iona, St. Mary's)
T-27. 2 Gamecocks (Jacksonville State, South Carolina)
T-27. 2 Knights (UCF, Fairleigh Dickinson)
T-27. 2 Lancers (California Baptist, Longwood)
T-27. 2 Lumberjacks (Northern Arizona, Stephen F Austin)
T-27. 2 Mavericks (Omaha, UT Arlington)
T-27. 2 Mustangs (Cal Poly, SMU)
T-27. 2 Phoenix (Elon, UWGB)
T-27. 2 Pioneers (Denver, Sacred Heart)
T-27. 2 Pirates (East Carolina, Seton Hall)
T-27. 2 Raiders (Colgate, Wright State)
T-27. 2 Rebels (Ole Miss, UNLV)
T-27. 2 Redhawks (Miami [OH] Seattle)
T-27. 2 Roadrunners (Cal State Bakersfield, UTSA)
T-27. 2 Seahawks (UNC-Wilmington, Wagner)
T-27. 2 Titans (CSU Fullerton, Detroit Mercy)
T-27. 2 Vikings (Cleveland State, Portland State)
T-27. 2 Wolfpack (Nevada, NC State)
T-27. 2 Wolverines (Michigan, Utah Valley State)
T-57. 1 Everyone Else (159 unique names)
194/353 Division One teams share a mascot with at least one other Division One team.
This post is not for or against Golden Eagles, was honestly just curious what the breakdown was.
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Wouldn’t your claim be that the student was being racist?
Yes. I would consider the creation of Willie Wampum to be a racist action by the student. That doesn't exclude him from being a good student, friend, and Warrior as Warrior69 put it. Most good students, friends, and Warriors I know have done racist things from time to time, myself included.
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I knew Willie Wampum and he was a really good student, friend and Warrior; not a footnote.
Hell 69'er, I'm pretty sure ewe new Padre' Marquette personally, aina?
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Yes. I would consider the creation of Willie Wampum to be a racist action by the student. That doesn't exclude him from being a good student, friend, and Warrior as Warrior69 put it. Most good students, friends, and Warriors I know have done racist things from time to time, myself included.
For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.
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For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.
I think a large part of it is that these individuals want to feel good about themselves so they “speak out” about these “injustices” and there is a feeling of righteous and strength they get. Bizarre, but not uncommon.
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Self-righteous, aka #hypocrites, aina?
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For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.
I can understand why the strong rhetoric, r-word etc, triggers a defensive response. But if you want a dose of 'contra'-context, the Warriors were birthed in a Native American fever that swept Milwaukee with the arrival of the Braves from Boston - MKE had arrived as a MLB Town! No nobel cause or long lineage. Marquette celebrated the trend, adopted the Warriors as the students adopted this fever and as luck would have it become a national power in college basketball.
I personally dont think anyone had mal-intent in this endeavor - but respect the decision that the Jesuits made (particularly the second time) - that there is no going back (or at least back to this time and not back to the other two nicknames MU held).
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For the record, Willie Wampum was gone in 1971, 22 years before Marquette dropped the Warriors. I wasn't around then like some of you cats, but with the book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" being released the year before, I am pretty sure the student body universally saw Willie as a racist stereotype back then.
Fast forward, Willie had nothing to do with dropping the Warrior name two decades later other than as a convenient excuse/target. In fact, MU tried extensively to work with the Native Americans to bring in the appropriate heritage. Willie was an excuse that had long expired but a myth that lasts to this day. The MU President, who effed up everything he touched, caved when all he had to do was change the imagery.
End of the day, like most things, MU screwed the pooch and picked a mascot that has absolutely no connection to the school. A lame attempt at political correctness only made worse by the ill-fated Gold debacle. They literally picked a mascot that was a knock-off of the San Diego Chicken, made palatable by a few posters here who donned the Big Bird feathers with aplomb.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/detail.php/nickname/williewampum.jpg?id=nickname%3Awillie_wampum
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I still think the name should have been Jumpin' Jesuits.
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For the record, Willie Wampum was gone in 1971, 22 years before Marquette dropped the Warriors. I wasn't around then like some of you cats, but with the book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" being released the year before, I am pretty sure the student body universally saw Willie as a racist stereotype back then.
Fast forward, Willie had nothing to do with dropping the Warrior name two decades later other than as a convenient excuse/target. In fact, MU tried extensively to work with the Native Americans to bring in the appropriate heritage. Willie was an excuse that had long expired but a myth that lasts to this day. The MU President, who effed up everything he touched, caved when all he had to do was change the imagery.
End of the day, like most things, MU screwed the pooch and picked a mascot that has absolutely no connection to the school. A lame attempt at political correctness only made worse by the ill-fated Gold debacle. They literally picked a mascot that was a knock-off of the San Diego Chicken, made palatable by a few posters here who donned the Big Bird feathers with aplomb.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/detail.php/nickname/williewampum.jpg?id=nickname%3Awillie_wampum
Trying to work with Native Americans on appropriate heritage was the problem. If they would have changed the imagery when they dropped Willie, my guess is that they would still be Warriors today.
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For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.
That doesn't mean that Willie wasn't a racist image. It most definitely was. That doesn't mean I condemn Marquette for using the image. It was common back then. But it was still racist.
I think a large part of it is that these individuals want to feel good about themselves so they “speak out” about these “injustices” and there is a feeling of righteous and strength they get. Bizarre, but not uncommon.
It was a racist image. To recognize that fact has nothing to do with feeling good about myself. It is stating the obvious.
Self-righteous, aka #hypocrites, aina?
I love when people say stuff like this when they really have no argument against the facts. They think it makes them sound smart.
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Is EVERYTHING that is racist bad?
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Trying to work with Native Americans on appropriate heritage was the problem. If they would have changed the imagery when they dropped Willie, my guess is that they would still be Warriors today.
Agreed. It was also very awkward back then as well as it is today, in retrospect.
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Is EVERYTHING that is racist bad?
Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?
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For the life of me i don't understand why you and other bright people around here are unable to put things in context. We don't even know some of the horrible things we're all doing today because they haven't been defined as horrible yet. Geesh.
Who said I can't put things in context? I'm not calling for the student to be hunted down and shamed. I am stating a fact, Willie Wampum was a racist caricature. He was then and he is now. It was more socially acceptable back then so I absolutely understand why it happened and why it was accepted. I trust Warrior69 when he says that he was a great person and making Willie doesn't change that. He did something racist, like every other person in human history has done at multiple points in their life.
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Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?
AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.
UNCLE BEN'S Rice.
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AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.
UNCLE BEN'S Rice.
Saltine crackers
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Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?
Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?
There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist? Some might think so. I don’t.
I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such? It just might but maybe not.
Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans? If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion? Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist?
My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not. That’s racist right? I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner. So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter. She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist?
I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.
AUNT JEMIMA's Syrup and Pancake Mix.
UNCLE BEN'S Rice.
UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.
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Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?
There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist? Some might think so. I don’t.
I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such? It just might but maybe not.
Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans? If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion? Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist?
My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not. That’s racist right? I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner. So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter. She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist?
I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.
UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.
Eminem and Macklemore are two examples of white rappers. Disliking rap music is not racist. Stereotyping rap music as "black" might be racist.
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Who decides what is and what isn’t racist?
There are obvious examples like separate bathrooms and bubblers, or the use of terms such as the ‘N Word’ and Redskin, but if I say I don’t like rap music am I being racist? Some might think so. I don’t.
I like jazz, the blues, and zydeco... does that now exempt my not liking rap music as being racist by those who would deem me as such? It just might but maybe not.
Is using this example racist because I’m equating certain music genres with black Americans? If this example is racist is it intrinsically ‘bad’ as a result or is using an example that is racist ‘good’ because it is being used in the context of a discussion? Does something racist have to be ‘bad’ or ‘good’ or can it just be what it is..... racist?
My wife calls me ‘Cracker’ all the time... I’m of European descent she is not. That’s racist right? I wouldn’t say that’s bad because she uses that term in private familial settings and in an affectionate manner. So in this case, can the blatant racist term be good? Context matter. She’s also not black so is this now cultural appropriation and as a result back to being racist?
I no longer think what is and what isn’t racist is objective but has increasingly become subjective as the label has been politicized over the last two decades but that’s just my opinion and not a fact.
UNCLE BEN’S Rice is perfect every time.
Your rap example is silly because (a) there are rappers of all different races, and (b) you aren't saying "I don't like black rap music." You just dislike a certain genre. That is in no way racist.
But objectively the Willie Wampum character was racist.
Look, no one is condemning the University for using the character. No one is blaming the people who made it, who very likely had no ill intent. In fact the University tried (clumsily) to be more respectable with the Native imagery and it just didn't work.
Uncle Bens and Aunt Jemima clearly used racist imagery in the past to promote their products. While those brands still exist, and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't, the imagery used now isn't racist. Just like I think Marquette could have used non-racist imagery and kept the Warrior nickname. Which is why DiUlio and the BOT erred. (Regardless of the apparent conditions of accepting the gift from the Potowanami.)
I mean, I don't know why that is hard to understand.
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Eminem and Macklemore are two examples of white rappers. Disliking rap music is not racist. Stereotyping rap music as "black" might be racist.
Beasties, El-P, Vanilla Ice, Snow, Marky Mark, Everlast, Mac Lethal... long list
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I was bored on the crapper so I decided to look into this. Turns out Golden Eagles is not in the top 5, they aren't even in the top 10. They are tied with a few other schools for 12th.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I imagine Warriors is not used officially by anyone? We would be unique?
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Thank you for taking the time to do this. I imagine Warriors is not used officially by anyone? We would be unique?
No. Hawaii is the Warriors. We would be one of two in Division 1
Edit, my mistake. I missed that Hawaii switched back to Rainbow Warriors a few years ago.
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Just like I think Marquette could have used non-racist imagery and kept the Warrior nickname.
Maybe a nice drawing of the Hoan Bridge.
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Can you please provide an example of something racist that is "good"?
Huckleberry Finn, Uncle Tom's Cabin, To Kill a Mockingbird.
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No. Hawaii is the Warriors. We would be one of two in Division 1
Edit, my mistake. I missed that Hawaii switched back to Rainbow Warriors a few years ago.
But we would have been the only one with just Warriors (Rainbow Warriors is a combo name)?
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But we would have been the only one with just Warriors (Rainbow Warriors is a combo name)?
Yes. Like I said, my mistake I missed that Hawaii switched back to Rainbow Warriors a few years ago. They were just the warriors for awhile.
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Yes. Like I said, my mistake I missed that Hawaii switched back to Rainbow Warriors a few years ago. They were just the warriors for awhile.
Got it, misunderstood you. Thank you
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Stereotyping rap music as "black" might be racist.
I disagree. Claiming rap music is part white music might be extremely racist.
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Huckleberry Finn, Uncle Tom's Cabin, To Kill a Mockingbird.
Gone with the Wind, Blazing Saddles, Shaft
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Gone with the Wind, Blazing Saddles, Shaft
Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks? (Shaft)
You're damn right
Who is the man that would risk his neck for his brother, man? (Shaft)
Can ya dig it?
Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about? (Shaft)
Right on
You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother (Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft (Then we can dig it)
He's a complicated man but no one understands him but his woman (John Shaft)
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Were Rochester (Jack Benny, y'all) and Bill Crosby, Uncle Toms, hey?
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Fighting Hawk anyone?
War Eagles.
It would make our name a lot less generic, and be a nod to the past.
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Thank you for taking the time to do this. I imagine Warriors is not used officially by anyone? We would be unique?
They’re not D1 but Wayne St University in Detroit is the Warriors
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War Eagles.
It would make our name a lot less generic, and be a nod to the past.
Great idea!
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They’re not D1 but Wayne St University in Detroit is the Warriors
So is Wisconsin Lutheran College
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Hey, this thread lost some weight😜
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Hey, this thread lost some weight😜
Maybe this article will plump it up...
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/12/poll-finds-80-americans-including-minority-groups-reject-political-correctness?intcmp=ob_article_footer
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Maybe this article will plump it up...
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/12/poll-finds-80-americans-including-minority-groups-reject-political-correctness?intcmp=ob_article_footer
Well yeah. People don’t like “political correctness” as a concept, but they don’t say that people are in agreement about what political correctness actually is.
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Maybe this article will plump it up...
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/12/poll-finds-80-americans-including-minority-groups-reject-political-correctness?intcmp=ob_article_footer
This post is why we can’t have nice things. ::)
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Well yeah. People don’t like “political correctness” as a concept, but they don’t say that people are in agreement about what political correctness actually is.
As Justice Stevens once said, "I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it".
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nm
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Oh look. MUScoop bringing back this discussion after it was moved and locked? Color me shocked that this group can't move on, or at least move this discussion to Superbar where it belongs.
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Oh look. MUScoop bringing back this discussion after it was moved and locked? Color me shocked that this group can't move on, or at least move this discussion to Superbar where it belongs.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/856456b4fac99f838d6946c988a34f7b/tenor.gif?itemid=8607839)
You're right. I gave my last post the old "nm" treatment.
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Honestly, it's not directed at any one person MUBurrow. I just find these constant back and forth diatribes, re-litigating the past aggravating. I know it'll probably sound like yelling into the void, but as a daily visitor to the site (though infrequent poster), it does sometimes make me with there was another active Marquette forum worth a damn. MUScoop is as close as it gets, so I deal, despite my fraying patience that prompted the post.
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Maybe this article will plump it up...
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/12/poll-finds-80-americans-including-minority-groups-reject-political-correctness?intcmp=ob_article_footer
A Fox News poll. LOL! This is as legitimate as the Daniel Snyder poll that claimed Native Americans overwhelmingly supported his team's racist name. Elizabeth Warren was more Native than the individuals who were able to "self-identify" to participate in that poll.
The right has done a wonderful job taking extreme examples to fuel the persecution complex among their own to claim "PC run amok." In reality, when the right says "PC run amok" what it really means is the inability to use the N word and other racist, sexist and bigoted slurs in public without consequence.
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A Fox News poll. LOL! This is as legitimate as the Daniel Snyder poll that claimed Native Americans overwhelmingly supported his team's racist name. Elizabeth Warren was more Native than the individuals who were able to "self-identify" to participate in that poll.
The right has done a wonderful job taking extreme examples to fuel the persecution complex among their own to claim "PC run amok." In reality, when the right says "PC run amok" what it really means is the inability to use the N word and other racist, sexist and bigoted slurs in public without consequence.
You honestly believe this??
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You honestly believe this??
Well to me Fox is the WWE of news
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Cut it out guys. Seriously.
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I just find these constant back and forth diatribes, re-litigating the past aggravating. I know it'll probably sound like yelling into the void, but as a daily visitor to the site (though infrequent poster), it does sometimes make me with there was another active Marquette forum worth a damn. MUScoop is as close as it gets, so I deal, despite my fraying patience that prompted the post.
May I interest you in some Arby's sauce with your beef n cheddar?
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NM. And I really mean NM.
There. I said it!
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In reality, when the right says "PC run amok" what it really means is the inability to use the N word and other racist, sexist and bigoted slurs in public without consequence.
Someone who can type this doesn't take a back seat to anyone in the bigotry department.
He does, however, take a back seat (I hope) to almost any MU alum when it comes to sentence structure.
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A Fox News poll. LOL!
You might want to read a bit more, Chico. It isn't a Fox News Poll. The Atlantic published the same poll. The same poll appears to have been picked up and republished by many different outlets the last two days.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/
It was not commissioned by Fox, or MSNBC. The research was conducted by a firm called MOREINCOMMON, a group that is reaching out to the middle and trying to unite people on what they have in common, not the polarization bullcrap that dominates both sides. What a concept. The CEO of MOREINCOMMON comes from a long background at the UN Peacekeeping Operations, not exactly a right wing incubator.
This is the firm that put the data together. https://www.moreincommon.com/governance/
This is the actual report, which is quite interesting. Goes to actually show how much various groups of society have in common. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a70a7c3010027736a22740f/t/5bbcea6b7817f7bf7342b718/1539107467397/hidden_tribes_report-2.pdf
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The right has done a wonderful job taking extreme examples to fuel the persecution complex among their own to claim "PC run amok." In reality, when the right says "PC run amok" what it really means is the inability to use the N word and other racist, sexist and bigoted slurs in public without consequence.
And you wonder why our side is not in power right now, because of crap statements like this. All you are doing is alienating many good people with that broad based comment.
I look forward to a world where the middle reclaims civility.
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And you wonder why our side is not in power right now, because of crap statements like this. All you are doing is alienating many good people with that broad based comment.
I look forward to a world where the middle reclaims civility.
So his statement wasn't pc enough for you?
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And you wonder why our side is not in power right now, because of crap statements like this. All you are doing is alienating many good people with that broad based comment.
I look forward to a world where the middle reclaims civility.
So if you're for the middle....why have you only called out one side of the spectrum since coming back here? ?-(
So his statement wasn't pc enough for you?
Nice
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::)
And you wonder why our side is not in power right now, because of crap statements like this. All you are doing is alienating many good people with that broad based comment.
I look forward to a world where the middle reclaims civility.
::)
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You might want to read a bit more, Chico. It isn't a Fox News Poll. The Atlantic published the same poll. The same poll appears to have been picked up and republished by many different outlets the last two days.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/
It was not commissioned by Fox, or MSNBC. The research was conducted by a firm called MOREINCOMMON, a group that is reaching out to the middle and trying to unite people on what they have in common, not the polarization bullcrap that dominates both sides. What a concept. The CEO of MOREINCOMMON comes from a long background at the UN Peacekeeping Operations, not exactly a right wing incubator.
This is the firm that put the data together. https://www.moreincommon.com/governance/
This is the actual report, which is quite interesting. Goes to actually show how much various groups of society have in common. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a70a7c3010027736a22740f/t/5bbcea6b7817f7bf7342b718/1539107467397/hidden_tribes_report-2.pdf
Sounds socialist!
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Clearly the mods don't follow their own rules because there's no way this whole thread shouldn't be Superbar-ed at this point.
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It's just a mascot.
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The one (only?) perk of being a mod: You can keep your threads alive forever!
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/062b0072b9006b2b0578054a0850860b/tenor.gif?itemid=4795022)
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You mean how CNN reported that the lava hit the water in Hawaii and instantly spawned 'hydrochloric" acid"......LOL!......
So every left wing rag over the next week was saying that the deadly "hydrochloric cloud" could kill anyone that came close.....
Was quite amusing.....
I guess libs don't take "chemistry class".....
Dumbases......It is sulfur.....in Lava......and sulfuric acid that is formed.....
You can not make up how dumb the left is.....When they think they are so so smart!
Hard to see where they are wrong, it is HCL gas. Also, the signs you speak of, they say Volcanic Fumes are dangerous, but no mention of Sulfuric acid.
http://nautiluslive.org/blog/2018/08/16/where-lava-meets-sea-mapping-k%C4%ABlaueas-ocean-entry
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My anger was so thick this weekend in remembrance, this bump is two days late.
The 25th is the Silver Anniversary .. 26th is the Arby's Anniversary, if you were wondering.
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Golden years...bop bop bop....golden years...
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My anger was so thick this weekend in remembrance, this bump is two days late.
The 25th is the Silver Anniversary .. 26th is the Arby's Anniversary, if you were wondering.
It takes 27 years to judge....
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It takes 27 years to judge....
Well crap... Guess I'm going out to pasture soon.
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As Justice Stevens once said, "I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it".
Not Justice Stevens - but you’re close - his name does start with an “s”.
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I, for one, am not giving up hope for a reversal. Why, just the other day, I saw a group of golden eagles flocking together to discuss forming a protest committee, no doubt.
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Happy Columbus Day
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Well, I remember one article where he said "We could either build a fence around the place or work to improve the neighborhood." They did the latter and it was a good choice. The neighborhood around campus is much better than it was 25 years ago when I was in school - it's still not great, but it's better.
What is considered the neighborhood? I mean, how far out? Early 80’s I lived on 24th &wells. Walking, running and yes, sometimes stumbling, no issues. And that was dahmer territory
One incident I will never forget was 1980, walking down wisco ave, broad daylight with one of my room mates. At approx 20th/ 21st a car load of, umm guys, pulls up to us and asks us where 5th and fly our is...I proceed to naively tell him how to get there as he raises a gun while the “group” in the car start laughing their big arses off while we put our heads down and ran dropping a trail of...we never reported it to public safety or the police figuring, what?
I don’t think the neighborhood has improved. As a matter of fact, I believe it’s gotten worse. the intro of public safety being armed, the shuttles and cell phones have provided some nice insulation. No physical walls, but beefing up the interior had to help
Norte dame, if I recall, had a big fence around their campus, right? Only been their once for a b-ball game
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I, for one, am not giving up hope for a reversal. Why, just the other day, I saw a group of golden eagles flocking together to discuss forming a protest committee, no doubt.
“Flocking”? We used to call it something else ;D
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What is considered the neighborhood? I mean, how far out? Early 80’s I lived on 24th &wells. Walking, running and yes, sometimes stumbling, no issues. And that was dahmer territory
rocketman, you and I were neighbors!
My junior year (80-81), I lived on the northwest corner of 24th and Wells. Conveniently located kitty-corner from Midget Tavern and 3 blocks away from a George Webb.
It was a dive of a 4-bedroom apartment owned by an attorney. Cost us a total of $265/month -- $66.25 each, which was dirt cheap even back then. You get what you pay for. We had roaches galore, stopped sinks, a rickety deck we were afraid to go on, etc. One day, we got so fed up that 3 of us marched to the attorney's office, talking big about all the demands we were gonna make. We got there, said a few words ... and by the time he was finished with us, we were apologizing for taking his time.
Despite the conditions and the obviously terrible neighborhood, my buddies and I have lots of great memories. One of my roomies from back then, and his wife, just visited me and Mrs. 82 in Charlotte a couple weeks ago, and we reminisced about all the silliness.
LOVED my 4 years at Marquette so much!! Go Warriors!
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Well, I remember one article where he said "We could either build a fence around the place or work to improve the neighborhood." They did the latter and it was a good choice. The neighborhood around campus is much better than it was 25 years ago when I was in school - it's still not great, but it's better.
A lot better in my opinion.
We were 21st and Michigan and also 23rd and Wisconsin. Roommates mugged several times coming home.
Putting the police in there was a smart move.
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rocketman, you and I were neighbors!
My junior year (80-81), I lived on the northwest corner of 24th and Wells. Conveniently located kitty-corner from Midget Tavern and 3 blocks away from a George Webb.
It was a dive of a 4-bedroom apartment owned by an attorney. Cost us a total of $265/month -- $66.25 each, which was dirt cheap even back then. You get what you pay for. We had roaches galore, stopped sinks, a rickety deck we were afraid to go on, etc. One day, we got so fed up that 3 of us marched to the attorney's office, talking big about all the demands we were gonna make. We got there, said a few words ... and by the time he was finished with us, we were apologizing for taking his time.
Despite the conditions and the obviously terrible neighborhood, my buddies and I have lots of great memories. One of my roomies from back then, and his wife, just visited me and Mrs. 82 in Charlotte a couple weeks ago, and we reminisced about all the silliness.
LOVED my 4 years at Marquette so much!! Go Warriors!
Yes! It was own by Ralph anzivino. He taught at the law school. I lived on the first floor across from this young mom and 2/3 kids whose husband/boyfriend was in prison for assaulting his boxing manager
Do you remember the guys in the middle section having a finals party? They were inviting people over to do “shots” I never heard anything but legend has it they were shooting at stuffed animals in their fireplace.
This is crazy all around!
Kitty corner from a laundromat and 2 blocks up from the talk of the town. I managed that for Wayne b for a semester. Fulfilled one of al’s Prerequisites for a diploma! And yes I learned a lot there. I guess you could say it was within my major-biology🤷🏼♂️
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Was there extremely high lead levels in the water in that 23rd/24th neighborhood?
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Was there extremely high lead levels in the water in that 23rd/24th neighborhood?
LOL on that on doc, maybe some formaldehyde from Jeffrey’s place but everyone knows guns werent legal and conceal carry was only for the “bad guys” ::)
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Yes! It was own by Ralph anzivino. He taught at the law school. I lived on the first floor across from this young mom and 2/3 kids whose husband/boyfriend was in prison for assaulting his boxing manager
Do you remember the guys in the middle section having a finals party? They were inviting people over to do “shots” I never heard anything but legend has it they were shooting at stuffed animals in their fireplace.
This is crazy all around!
Kitty corner from a laundromat and 2 blocks up from the talk of the town. I managed that for Wayne b for a semester. Fulfilled one of al’s Prerequisites for a diploma! And yes I learned a lot there. I guess you could say it was within my major-biology🤷🏼♂️
22 and Michigan my senior year (87-88) That was my laundromat.
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A lot better in my opinion.
We were 21st and Michigan and also 23rd and Wisconsin. Roommates mugged several times coming home.
Putting the police in there was a smart move.
Junior year, 932 n 18th, a 50 yard crawl to Lenny's Tap at 18th and State.
Senior year, 23rd and Wisconsin - Camelot East apartments. Northeast corner, just east of the Ambassador Hotel. Hope you didn't get our apartment - we left it in something less than pristine condition.
September 1968 - June 1970. Not great neighborhoods, but none of my roommates or I ever had any problems.
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Norte dame, if I recall, had a big fence around their campus, right? Only been their once for a b-ball game
South of Eddy and Angela Blvd is rough. South of Edison and SB Ave is really rough. As in Chicago multi gang killings in one night rough.
Many parts, not all, have turned into Gary.
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Junior year, 932 n 18th, a 50 yard crawl to Lenny's Tap at 18th and State.
Senior year, 23rd and Wisconsin - Camelot East apartments. Northeast corner, just east of the Ambassador Hotel. Hope you didn't get our apartment - we left it in something less than pristine condition.
September 1968 - June 1970. Not great neighborhoods, but none of my roommates or I ever had any problems.
You musta been such a legend there, they named a tap after you-cool! Remember tomas? Celebrated getting into d-school there. That couldn’t have been more than a 25 yard crawl from those apartments with the balcony and underground parking. Moving on up there baby
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How ironic that the announcement came on what I understand is now referred to not as Columbus Day but as Indigenous Peoples Day (in some PC circles).
What's more indigenous, a Genoan sailing under a Spanish flag, or our Warrior? Mo contest.
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Yes as a proud Alum still hate the Golden Eagles. The Hill Toppers and The Avalanche were previous names and should of been an alternative. There was a suggestion I thought was great during the discussion. Have a Hittite Warrior as a mascot since the Israelites slew them many millennium go and there is no one left to complain. I also remember a lot of talk from some of the academics that warrior is a violent oppressive name and should never be used. Maybe we'd never get the Warriors back but lose the lame Golden Eagles.
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Yes! It was own by Ralph anzivino. He taught at the law school. I lived on the first floor across from this young mom and 2/3 kids whose husband/boyfriend was in prison for assaulting his boxing manager
Do you remember the guys in the middle section having a finals party? They were inviting people over to do “shots” I never heard anything but legend has it they were shooting at stuffed animals in their fireplace.
This is crazy all around!
Kitty corner from a laundromat and 2 blocks up from the talk of the town. I managed that for Wayne b for a semester. Fulfilled one of al’s Prerequisites for a diploma! And yes I learned a lot there. I guess you could say it was within my major-biology🤷🏼♂️
That's so effen funny, rocket. We used to call it the Anzivino Dive. You'd turn on the bathroom light at night and the roaches would go scurrying. I never brought my girlfriend there because it was such an embarrassing dive; I was always at her place.
On Sundays my roommates and I would watch football and whoever got the low card on the cut had to go make the Mickey D's run.
We went to Midget pretty much every night. Harp and Shamrock was our other main hangout that year, and lots of late nights at Webb's on 27th.
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Yes as a proud Alum still hate the Golden Eagles. The Hill Toppers and The Avalanche were previous names and should of been an alternative. There was a suggestion I thought was great during the discussion. Have a Hittite Warrior as a mascot since the Israelites slew them many millennium go and there is no one left to complain. I also remember a lot of talk from some of the academics that warrior is a violent oppressive name and should never be used. Maybe we'd never get the Warriors back but lose the lame Golden Eagles.
One day the baby goats will come out in force to picket, so people know that Golden Eagles can be even more violent and oppressive. Of course, they will be ignored by those bigoted against dumb animals.
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Yes as a proud Alum still hate the Golden Eagles. The Hill Toppers and The Avalanche were previous names and should of been an alternative. There was a suggestion I thought was great during the discussion. Have a Hittite Warrior as a mascot since the Israelites slew them many millennium go and there is no one left to complain. I also remember a lot of talk from some of the academics that warrior is a violent oppressive name and should never be used. Maybe we'd never get the Warriors back but lose the lame Golden Eagles.
I believe the final vote was between Golden Eagles and Hilltoppers.
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Yes as a proud Alum still hate the Golden Eagles. The Hill Toppers and The Avalanche were previous names and should of been an alternative. There was a suggestion I thought was great during the discussion. Have a Hittite Warrior as a mascot since the Israelites slew them many millennium go and there is no one left to complain. I also remember a lot of talk from some of the academics that warrior is a violent oppressive name and should never be used. Maybe we'd never get the Warriors back but lose the lame Golden Eagles.
Or how about Warriors, and donate a portion of all apparel sales to the Wounded Warriors project. That way we associate with American heroes and it is pretty hard to argue against that.
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What is considered the neighborhood? I mean, how far out? Early 80’s I lived on 24th &wells. Walking, running and yes, sometimes stumbling, no issues. And that was dahmer territory
One incident I will never forget was 1980, walking down wisco ave, broad daylight with one of my room mates. At approx 20th/ 21st a car load of, umm guys, pulls up to us and asks us where 5th and fly our is...I proceed to naively tell him how to get there as he raises a gun while the “group” in the car start laughing their big arses off while we put our heads down and ran dropping a trail of...we never reported it to public safety or the police figuring, what?
I don’t think the neighborhood has improved. As a matter of fact, I believe it’s gotten worse. the intro of public safety being armed, the shuttles and cell phones have provided some nice insulation. No physical walls, but beefing up the interior had to help
Norte dame, if I recall, had a big fence around their campus, right? Only been their once for a b-ball game
I haven't heard of this happening recently, so yeah, the neighborhood has gotten better. What is your reasoning to say it has gotten worse?
When parents are reduced to complaining about the "sketchy people" at the 16th street bus stop, you know that it is safer than in our day.
As far as defining the neighborhood, the LIMO map is a good guide:
https://www.marquette.edu/campus-safety/documents/limo-boundaries.pdf
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Or how about Warriors, and donate a portion of all apparel sales to the Wounded Warriors project. That way we associate with American heroes and it is pretty hard to argue against that.
Awesome idea
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Or how about Warriors, and donate a portion of all apparel sales to the Wounded Warriors project. That way we associate with American heroes and it is pretty hard to argue against that.
Best idea in Scoop history.
So I'm assuming there's no chance.
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Best idea in Scoop history.
So I'm assuming there's no chance.
I am completely against the idea, so thankfully, there is no chance.
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I'd rather go back to Warriors and use Joan of Arc as the mascot
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I'd rather go back to Warriors and use Joan of Arc as the mascot
This!
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That's so effen funny, rocket. We used to call it the Anzivino Dive. You'd turn on the bathroom light at night and the roaches would go scurrying. I never brought my girlfriend there because it was such an embarrassing dive; I was always at her place.
On Sundays my roommates and I would watch football and whoever got the low card on the cut had to go make the Mickey D's run.
We went to Midget pretty much every night. Harp and Shamrock was our other main hangout that year, and lots of late nights at Webb's on 27th.
I miss the Midget Tap. Recently came across photos with Frank Herald. What a nice gentleman.
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That's so effen funny, rocket. We used to call it the Anzivino Dive. You'd turn on the bathroom light at night and the roaches would go scurrying. I never brought my girlfriend there because it was such an embarrassing dive; I was always at her place.
On Sundays my roommates and I would watch football and whoever got the low card on the cut had to go make the Mickey D's run.
We went to Midget pretty much every night. Harp and Shamrock was our other main hangout that year, and lots of late nights at Webb's on 27th.
This is great! You ain’t kidding! That place was the Hilton of roach motels! Used to take a can of spray like a flame thrower into the John. It sure made for quick deucers and showers..yikes! Needed group therapy after that stay.
I had 2 other roommates. Hobs and I got there first and grabbed the 2 best bed rooms leaving the small one for Freddy. The room was soooo damn pink ya broke into a sweat Just looking at it. Took about 4/5 coats of paint to cover
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This is great! You ain’t kidding! That place was the Hilton of roach motels! Used to take a can of spray like a flame thrower into the John. It sure made for quick deucers and showers..yikes! Needed group therapy after that stay.
I had 2 other roommates. Hobs and I got there first and grabbed the 2 best bed rooms leaving the small one for Freddy. The room was soooo damn pink ya broke into a sweat Just looking at it. Took about 4/5 coats of paint to cover
On our last night there, one of my roommates puked into the living room windowsill, and we just left it. I was sure Anzivino would use it as an excuse to not return our security deposit, but we did get it back.
I miss the Midget Tap. Recently came across photos with Frank Herald. What a nice gentleman.
Frank was the best. We called him "The Senator" (though I have absolutely no idea why). Whenever we'd go there, he'd always buy us a round -- bought a lot of goodwill by giving a few knuckleheads a 7-ounce Schlitz (regular price: 35 cents). His wife Fern was a sweetheart, too.
I actually golfed quite a bit with him, his son Kelly and longtime Midget bartender Mike Duggan. Frank was a damn good golfer -- 160 yards right down the middle, 140-yard 3-wood, pitch or chip it onto the green, make a putt for par or 2-putt for bogey. Like clockwork.
I was on Kelly's softball team the summer between my junior and senior years, when I stayed in town to work and make up a class I had dropped.
One of the funniest regular occurrences: Ma Kernan always taking a cab the 2 1/2 blocks from Midget to Harp. I mean, she was about 1,000 years old, so I guess she needed to take a cab, but it still always cracked us up.
My friends and I shed a tear the day we heard that Frank had died, and another the day we heard that the Midget had burned down.
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I haven't heard of this happening recently, so yeah, the neighborhood has gotten better. What is your reasoning to say it has gotten worse?
When parents are reduced to complaining about the "sketchy people" at the 16th street bus stop, you know that it is safer than in our day.
As far as defining the neighborhood, the LIMO map is a good guide:
https://www.marquette.edu/campus-safety/documents/limo-boundaries.pdf
By neighborhood, I was referring to the outer rings. Campus proper, I believe got safer due to the ability of PS being armed and the focus on the blue light shuttles. The areas surrounding campus, mainly southwest-24/25th Michigan, to west/northwest, 24th wells, kilbourn, state etc. east to 10th kilbourn and state and out.
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By neighborhood, I was referring to the outer rings. Campus proper, I believe got safer due to the ability of PS being armed and the focus on the blue light shuttles. The areas surrounding campus, mainly southwest-24/25th Michigan, to west/northwest, 24th wells, kilbourn, state etc. east to 10th kilbourn and state and out.
Marquette has only had armed police for five years. The area around campus is better than it was 30 years ago when I was in school. Don't get me wrong, it's not great and I wouldn't be buying a house there, but Marquette has had a positive affect on the neighborhood.
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Or how about Warriors, and donate a portion of all apparel sales to the Wounded Warriors project. That way we associate with American heroes and it is pretty hard to argue against that.
I made a similar proposal a few years ago. or endow several Native American scholarships. Either way, not going to happen.
Go Warriors.
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Junior year, 932 n 18th, a 50 yard crawl to Lenny's Tap at 18th and State.
Senior year, 23rd and Wisconsin - Camelot East apartments. Northeast corner, just east of the Ambassador Hotel. Hope you didn't get our apartment - we left it in something less than pristine condition.
September 1968 - June 1970. Not great neighborhoods, but none of my roommates or I ever had any problems.
We were at the Weston apartments, next to Scrub A Dub and the south side of Wisconsin.
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By neighborhood, I was referring to the outer rings. Campus proper, I believe got safer due to the ability of PS being armed and the focus on the blue light shuttles. The areas surrounding campus, mainly southwest-24/25th Michigan, to west/northwest, 24th wells, kilbourn, state etc. east to 10th kilbourn and state and out.
That's not the "Marquette neighborhood", and kids have no reason to venture out that far.
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Every time I've gone to campus the last few years, I've been impressed with how nice the neighborhood has become.
Agree with chickadee on the definition of "neighborhood." Venture too far outside it, and yes, it's not great. Same can be said of a great many city campuses nationwide. I'm proud of the infrastructure Marquette has put in place, and the way they've improved the territory they can control.
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We were at the Weston apartments, next to Scrub A Dub and the south side of Wisconsin.
I had friends that lived in that building (if it's the same one I am thinking of). One of them had painted the "Fame" logo on their living room wall, and you could see it from the street through the big picture window. When they told people that they lived in the Fame Apartment, everyone knew exactly what they were talking about.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7~oAAOxyuCJRfPdE/s-l300.jpg)
They were also on a first-name basis with a prostitute who plied her trade in front of the building.
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That's not the "Marquette neighborhood", and kids have no reason to venture out that far.
They don’t?? Some live outside of MU proper. Cheezus, west hall was on 26th Wisconsin. Not all of us were as well off as you chick. Some venture out a little bit. as we all know, the costs did come with more risk. I was pushing it a little bit at 24 th and wells back in early 80’s
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We were at the Weston apartments, next to Scrub A Dub and the south side of Wisconsin.
Hey Chico’s, I lived there as well my junior year before moving to roach motel. 1st floor, left side, right next to the no tell motel parking lot across from ambassador before it was remodeled.
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They don’t?? Some live outside of MU proper. Cheezus, west hall was on 26th Wisconsin. Not all of us were as well off as you chick. Some venture out a little bit. as we all know, the costs did come with more risk. I was pushing it a little bit at 24 th and wells back in early 80’s
Yeah butt Ma is cheap, aina?
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They don’t?? Some live outside of MU proper. Cheezus, west hall was on 26th Wisconsin. Not all of us were as well off as you chick. Some venture out a little bit. as we all know, the costs did come with more risk. I was pushing it a little bit at 24 th and wells back in early 80’s
You know that west Hall has been gone for 20 years, right? I don't know how long it's been since you have spent any time around campus, but very few (if any) students live west of 21st or north of State. The housing stock is vastly improved from our days. Today's parents wouldn't tolerate the conditions we lived in.
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You know that west Hall has been gone for 20 years, right? I don't know how long it's been since you have spent any time around campus, but very few (if any) students live west of 21st or north of State. The housing stock is vastly improved from our days. Today's parents wouldn't tolerate the conditions we lived in.
Gone are the days when the Beer Can was the high water mark. West Hall was next to a brothel, yet George Webb's was a short sprint away (on the plus side...pick your plus).
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Here was the "Soup Schedule" that was on the wall at the Webb's on 27th and Wells:
MONDAY - Bean and potato.
TUESDAY - Bean and ham.
WEDNESDAY - Bean and potato.
THURSDAY - Bean and ham.
FRIDAY - Bean and potato.
SATURDAY - Bean and ham.
SUNDAY - Bean.
As if that's not precious enough, the best thing about it was that they never had any of those soups. All they had was bean and bacon! I couldn't make that up. It was amazing!!
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I believe the final vote was between Golden Eagles and Hilltoppers.
Your belief is FALSE!
The final two was Golden Eagles and Lightning.
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rocketman, you and I were neighbors!
My junior year (80-81), I lived on the northwest corner of 24th and Wells. Conveniently located kitty-corner from Midget Tavern and 3 blocks away from a George Webb.
It was a dive of a 4-bedroom apartment owned by an attorney. Cost us a total of $265/month -- $66.25 each, which was dirt cheap even back then. You get what you pay for. We had roaches galore, stopped sinks, a rickety deck we were afraid to go on, etc. One day, we got so fed up that 3 of us marched to the attorney's office, talking big about all the demands we were gonna make. We got there, said a few words ... and by the time he was finished with us, we were apologizing for taking his time.
Despite the conditions and the obviously terrible neighborhood, my buddies and I have lots of great memories. One of my roomies from back then, and his wife, just visited me and Mrs. 82 in Charlotte a couple weeks ago, and we reminisced about all the silliness.
LOVED my 4 years at Marquette so much!! Go Warriors!
OMG, a couple of my buddies lived in that building in 1970-72! It wasn't a paradise then, either.
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Hey Chico’s, I lived there as well my junior year before moving to roach motel. 1st floor, left side, right next to the no tell motel parking lot across from ambassador before it was remodeled.
We were second floor, left side front of building. Interesting part of town. Seminary or something on one side, Scrub A dub on the other...Ambassador across the street. Late night breakfast at Michaels.
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You know that west Hall has been gone for 20 years, right? I don't know how long it's been since you have spent any time around campus, but very few (if any) students live west of 21st or north of State. The housing stock is vastly improved from our days. Today's parents wouldn't tolerate the conditions we lived in.
I think you are right. My freshman year the class was so large they had to put a bunch of students in West Hall and in the study areas of dorms. What an absolute cluster that was.
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Your belief is FALSE!
The final two was Golden Eagles and Lightning.
He may have been referring to the vote in 2005
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You know that west Hall has been gone for 20 years, right?
I loved my year at West. I thought it was funny that the boundary on the LIMO map you linked is still two blocks short of where West was located. It really was a bad place for a dorm, but it was a great place to live.
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I just realized that three of the four places I lived at Marquette (McCormick, West and Carmel) are gone. Wow. I really need to get back to campus. It's been a long, long time.
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I just realized that three of the four places I lived at Marquette (McCormick, West and Carmel) are gone. Wow. I really need to get back to campus. It's been a long, long time.
Glad you never lived in my hometown, SaW!!
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He may have been referring to the vote in 2005
That wasn’t the line of discussion, but he often gets confused.
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I loved my year at West. I thought it was funny that the boundary on the LIMO map you linked is still two blocks short of where West was located. It really was a bad place for a dorm, but it was a great place to live.
I was there the year it opened as a dorm. Old hotel and it actually was a great dorm. Lounge on top was great. Area was sh## but West Hall was much nicer that anything on campus.
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He may have been referring to the vote in 2005
2005 isn't anywhere near 26 years ago by my math. JB is right. Golden Eagles and Lightning were the finalists when "Warriors" was dropped.
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Yes, thank you for correcting my faulty memory. I forgot about the whole Lightning thing. For good reason.
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The correct answer was always to not have a mascot. We Are Marquette. Ring Out Ahoya. No mention of a mascot in either of those. Let the media call us what they want. We would've met the Potowatomi request and not strayed from the roots that mean so much to so many. It was the right answer when we first went away from Warriors, it was the right answer in 2005, and it should be the right answer today.
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The correct answer was always to not have a mascot. We Are Marquette. Ring Out Ahoya. No mention of a mascot in either of those. Let the media call us what they want. We would've met the Potowatomi request and not strayed from the roots that mean so much to so many. It was the right answer when we first went away from Warriors, it was the right answer in 2005, and it should be the right answer today.
So are we the Marquette We Are Marquettes? Or the Marquette Whatever You Want To Call Us? Or just the Marquette?
And when we take on UNC for the national championship again, will the headlines read "The UNC Tar Heels and the Marquette meet tonight for all the marbles".
I don't care if we don't have a mascot - but no nickname? We used to have the coolest nickname in college bball. Cool and unique. But unique without the cool (see "Gold" or no nickname at all) is (IMHO) lame.
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So are we the Marquette We Are Marquettes? Or the Marquette Whatever You Want To Call Us? Or just the Marquette?
And when we take on UNC for the national championship again, will the headlines read "The UNC Tar Heels and the Marquette meet tonight for all the marbles".
I don't care if we don't have a mascot - but no nickname? We used to have the coolest nickname in college bball. Cool and unique. But unique without the cool (see "Gold" or no nickname at all) is (IMHO) lame.
Just Marquette. No the, that's unnecessary. "The North Carolina Tarheels take on Marquette."
The natural consequence is announcers and fans would've still used Warriors, it just wouldn't have been official.
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We used to have the coolest nickname in college bball. Cool and unique. But unique without the cool (see "Gold" or no nickname at all) is (IMHO) lame.
We did? Um, ok. There’s another college in Milwaukee with the same nickname, and a NBA team.
Now, Golden Avalanche (my vote in 2005), THAT would have been cool and unique. Warriors was meh without a good back story to its adoption (jumping on board to be similar with other mascots in Milwaukee at the time).
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I voted for Scalpin' Savages.
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The correct answer was always to not have a mascot. We Are Marquette. Ring Out Ahoya. No mention of a mascot in either of those. Let the media call us what they want. We would've met the Potowatomi request and not strayed from the roots that mean so much to so many. It was the right answer when we first went away from Warriors, it was the right answer in 2005, and it should be the right answer today.
No thanks.
The media and others would call us the nothings....” a nothing performance today by the nothings”...writes itself. Dumb, not forward thinking and open to bad pub time and again. It is hard for me to think of any team anywhere that doesn’t have a symbol or nickname associated with it for good reason.
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The correct answer was always to not have a mascot. We Are Marquette. Ring Out Ahoya. No mention of a mascot in either of those. Let the media call us what they want. We would've met the Potowatomi request and not strayed from the roots that mean so much to so many. It was the right answer when we first went away from Warriors, it was the right answer in 2005, and it should be the right answer today.
I think Gold could have served this purpose and worked out OK. No real mascot or nickname, just Marquette, but if people have to fill in the blank for some reason, they could just default to Gold. It would have at least been better than Golden Eagles.
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No thanks.
The media and others would call us the nothings....” a nothing performance today by the nothings”...writes itself. Dumb, not forward thinking and open to bad pub time and again. It is hard for me to think of any team anywhere that doesn’t have a symbol or nickname associated with it for good reason.
No they wouldn't. That's just stupid and ignorant. Do they call national teams "the nothings"? Do they call football clubs "the nothings"? No.
Both prove you can function perfectly fine without an official mascot, and fans will often attach an unofficial mascot name, such as Italy referred to as The Azzuri, Arsenal FC referred to as The Gunners, or Atlanta United being referred to as The Five Stripes.
We would've officially been Marquette, and unofficially remained Warriors. Everyone would've been happy.
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No they wouldn't. That's just stupid and ignorant. Do they call national teams "the nothings"? Do they call football clubs "the nothings"? No.
Both prove you can function perfectly fine without an official mascot, and fans will often attach an unofficial mascot name, such as Italy referred to as The Azzuri, Arsenal FC referred to as The Gunners, or Atlanta United being referred to as The Five Stripes.
We would've officially been Marquette, and unofficially remained Warriors. Everyone would've been happy.
The national teams they call the Americans.
Ok, cool....the fans will attach a name.....the fans will attach Warriors as the name. I love the idea.
Marquette Warriors
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I look forward to the year this thread isn't bumped. It was two days late this year, progress
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I look forward to the year this thread isn't bumped. It was two days late this year, progress
I'm with you. I've never heard Stanford grads complain over their nickname change from Indians, nor Dartmouth. One would think now that Golden Eagles is well past drinking age people would stop living in the past over a nickname. Nicknames don't win games.
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I'm with you. I've never heard Stanford grads complain over their nickname change from Indians, nor Dartmouth. One would think now that Golden Eagles is well past drinking age people would stop living in the past over a nickname. Nicknames don't win games.
The front of the Jersey always said marquette it's weird how caught up in this people still are.
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I'm with you. I've never heard Stanford grads complain over their nickname change from Indians. One would think now that Golden Eagles is well past drinking age people would stop living in the past over a nickname. Nicknames don't win games.
You are kidding, right? The Stanford students have sarcastically adopted a floppy tree as their mascot to make fun of the change.
As to Warriors, the nickname represents a time in history when the MU students and basketball team protested social injustice by thumbing it’s nose at the establishment and won by breaking through barriers. Learn your history Billy...even your doppelgänger agrees with this.
The Warrior mascot on the other hand...
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I look forward to the year this thread isn't bumped. It was two days late this year, progress
"don't give up, don't ever give up"
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You are kidding, right? The Stanford students have sarcastically adopted a floppy tree as their mascot to make fun of the change.
As to Warriors, the nickname represents a time in history when the MU students and basketball team protested social injustice by thumbing it’s nose at the establishment and won by breaking through barriers. Learn your history Billy...even your doppelgänger agrees with this.
The Warrior mascot on the other hand...
+1.Sad that Billy and others know so little and care even less about Marquette's storied history. It's one they would (or at least should) be proud of.
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You are kidding, right? The Stanford students have sarcastically adopted a floppy tree as their mascot to make fun of the change.
As to Warriors, the nickname represents a time in history when the MU students and basketball team protested social injustice by thumbing it’s nose at the establishment and won by breaking through barriers. Learn your history Billy...even your doppelgänger agrees with this.
The Warrior mascot on the other hand...
actually, the Tree is the band's mascot. It was chosen because it was so popular with fans during a time when Stanford did not have an official mascot.
And Warriors was chosen to jump aboard the train with the Milwaukee Braves coming to town. Even the guy who portrayed the First Warrior and was the actual face of the last logo was in favor of dumping it.
Best case scenario would have been never dumping Hilltoppers.
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I'm with you. I've never heard Stanford grads complain over their nickname change from Indians, nor Dartmouth. One would think now that Golden Eagles is well past drinking age people would stop living in the past over a nickname. Nicknames don't win games.
I work with a Stanford grad that has a Stanford Indian sign in his office. He detests “the bush”....which is his nickname for the tree.
He is retiring next year after 40+ years of service.
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Disagree on the donations piece. Sure, there are some people that use it as an excuse and may have never wanted to donate, but there are no doubt people that have said this is the last straw...and stop.
Just as there are lifelong church goers that stopped going, or brand loyal consumers that never buy a product from a specific company ever again. It happens. People were pissed, some shook it off after time, some never have and never will despite years of support. I know this for a fact because I can tell you at least through about 6 years ago there were some alumni that gave every year and stopped back when the decision was made and never gave again...still living. We cannot ignore that reality...feel free to judge, but they have their reasons and principles, too.
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I work with a Stanford grad that has a Stanford Indian sign in his office. He detests “the bush”....which is his nickname for the tree.
He is retiring next year after 40+ years of service.
Lots of us dudes detest da bush, aina?
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Lots of us dudes detest da bush, aina?
You made me laugh Doc...definitely made me laugh.
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My uncle, an MU grad, was traveling in France a few years ago. His wife, my aunt(duh) had a toothache. Looked up a dentist who advertised that he was bilingual. Turns out he was an MU grad. First thing he said to them after finding out uncle was an alumni was, why the hell did they change the warrior name!!!
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Not long after the vote, I asked Diener, then a backup PG with the Pacers, which name he picked.
"Golden Eagles," he said. "That's all I know, and that's what I want to be."
Most people younger than 40 could give a rat's rump that we were Warriors when I and Doc and Lenny and Goose and so many other Scoopers attended Marquette. Forty years from now -- and actually, probably a lot sooner than that -- most won't even know we were ever the Warriors.
I liked being the Warriors. If there was more of a will to do so at the time, the school possibly could have saved the name minus the imagery. But they didn't, and that's that.
Frankly, in 2019, it's hard to believe this is even a "thing" for MU folks any more.
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Ya wanna know why we hang onto the warriors? We won A LOT as the warriors! And we won the BIG ONE as warriors.
It was changed almost overnight and unilaterally how arrogant can one be, automatically assuming that the term warriors is all about them. All we had to do was drop all references to “native Americans” and focus on the positive attributes of a “warrior”. It would have taken time, just as it took time for the term to become a “negative” connotation. But those in positions of knowing better and having more “compassion” than us had already made up their minds. People know when they’ve been made a fool of. Might as well have dipped our fingers in purple ink-fair is fair, eyn’a?
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I'm with you. I've never heard Stanford grads complain over their nickname change from Indians, nor Dartmouth. One would think now that Golden Eagles is well past drinking age people would stop living in the past over a nickname. Nicknames don't win games.
I think the main rub is that a great deal of people would have understood had Marquette dropped a name like "Indians", "Redskins" or "Redmen." Those names are antiquated and should be dropped.
However Warriors doesn't fit in the same category. Yes, Marquette hung onto the Native imagery too long and was hard to separate from the name itself. And everytime some douchy frat boy at a game shows up with a "headress" on his pudgy face, it reinforces that notion. But if that imagery would have been dropped back in 1972, Marquette would likely still be Warriors today.
That being said, I'm largely over it. Life moves on.
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Not long after the vote, I asked Diener, then a backup PG with the Pacers, which name he picked.
"Golden Eagles," he said. "That's all I know, and that's what I want to be."
Most people younger than 40 could give a rat's rump that we were Warriors when I and Doc and Lenny and Goose and so many other Scoopers attended Marquette. Forty years from now -- and actually, probably a lot sooner than that -- most won't even know we were ever the Warriors.
I liked being the Warriors. If there was more of a will to do so at the time, the school possibly could have saved the name minus the imagery. But they didn't, and that's that.
Frankly, in 2019, it's hard to believe this is even a "thing" for MU folks any more.
Young and dumb. With age comes wisdom. Bad decision then doesn’t make it any less bad now. Go Warriors.
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Ya wanna know why we hang onto the warriors? We won A LOT as the warriors! And we won the BIG ONE as warriors.
It was changed almost overnight and unilaterally how arrogant can one be, automatically assuming that the term warriors is all about them. All we had to do was drop all references to “native Americans” and focus on the positive attributes of a “warrior”. It would have taken time, just as it took time for the term to become a “negative” connotation. But those in positions of knowing better and having more “compassion” than us had already made up their minds. People know when they’ve been made a fool of. Might as well have dipped our fingers in purple ink-fair is fair, eyn’a?
+ 100. The elite always know better than the commoners and they make super duper decisions.
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+ 100. The elite always know better than the commoners and they make super duper decisions.
So, when Travis Diener or anyone else under 40 has a thought contrary to your own, they're "young and dumb."
And then you post this?
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So, when Travis Diener or anyone else under 40 has a thought contrary to your own, they're "young and dumb."
And then you post this?
I think sarcasm is lost on you.
I also don’t believe MU82 based on 2005 article. Maybe he was for it before he was against it?
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Not long after the vote, I asked Diener, then a backup PG with the Pacers, which name he picked.
"Golden Eagles," he said. "That's all I know, and that's what I want to be."
Most people younger than 40 could give a rat's rump that we were Warriors when I and Doc and Lenny and Goose and so many other Scoopers attended Marquette. Forty years from now -- and actually, probably a lot sooner than that -- most won't even know we were ever the Warriors.
I liked being the Warriors. If there was more of a will to do so at the time, the school possibly could have saved the name minus the imagery. But they didn't, and that's that.
Frankly, in 2019, it's hard to believe this is even a "thing" for MU folks any more.
Then there is this from the Chicago Tribune...
It is not the way the great Warriors’ warrior--yes, Diener prefers Marquette’s former nickname, Warriors, to the current Golden Eagles--would have chosen to end it.
Until this season, Diener had never missed a basketball game because of injury. For Lent, “I gave up not getting injured,” he joked. (Avani Patel, Tribune staff reporter. Chicago Tribune. Chicago, Ill.: Mar 8, 2005. pg. 6)
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Then there is this from the Chicago Tribune...
It is not the way the great Warriors’ warrior--yes, Diener prefers Marquette’s former nickname, Warriors, to the current Golden Eagles--would have chosen to end it.
Until this season, Diener had never missed a basketball game because of injury. For Lent, “I gave up not getting injured,” he joked. (Avani Patel, Tribune staff reporter. Chicago Tribune. Chicago, Ill.: Mar 8, 2005. pg. 6)
I asked him myself, he answered, I recorded it and I wrote it.
Of course, Warriors was not a choice offered by MU for the name, and that was the question I asked him.
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I asked him myself, he answered, I recorded it and I wrote it.
Of course, Warriors was not a choice offered by MU for the name, and that was the question I asked him.
Maybe you should have asked him what he preferred....like many of us, we wrote in Warriors because the other choices were pathetic.
Good to see even the under 40 year olds got it right.
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27 years. The flame still burns.
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I still blame Al...
Al DiUlio, that is.
Who was the worst President in MU history DiUlio or Pilarz?
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The Yellow!
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Should've at least changed back to the Hilltoppers. At least that's somewhat unique.
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Should've at least changed back to the Hilltoppers. At least that's somewhat unique.
That was what I voted for.
To my knowledge, Western Kentucky is the only D1 school with that nickname. There are about 842 Eagles or Golden Eagles.
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I wanted the Inquisition after a period in time brought to you by the Jesuits.
Or, the Flames, after what was done to Joan of Arc, whose chapel is the centerpiece of our campus.
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Should've at least changed back to the Hilltoppers. At least that's somewhat unique.
This is why Golden Eagles is so loathed. It represents nothing of our school or our geographic area. Hilltoppers, Explorers or Golden Avalanche would have been much better to align with our "independent brand".
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This is why Golden Eagles is so laothed. It represents nothing of our school or our geographic area. Hilltoppers, Explorers or Golden Avalanche would have been much better to align with our "independent brand".
Golden Eagles is lame.
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I wanted the Inquisition after a period in time brought to you by the Jesuits.
Or, the Flames, after what was done to Joan of Arc, whose chapel is the centerpiece of our campus.
Well, the center of campus was the Avalanche Bar, which is why the Golden Avalanche had resonance. But, lo and behold, it too was bulldozed in the middle of the night like the Warriors/Gold fiascos, FFP and the KoC mansion. Alumni engagement hasn't been a traditional strength over the decades. Basketball has been the stitch holding things together.
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Well, the center of campus was the Avalanche Bar, which is why the Golden Avalanche had resonance. But, lo and behold, it too was bulldozed in the middle of the night like the Warriors/Gold fiascos, FFP and the KoC mansion. Alumni engagement hasn't been a traditional strength over the decades. Basketball has been the stitch holding things together.
If FFP referrs to the Freshman Frontier Program, that's still there. https://www.marquette.edu/ffp/
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If FFP referrs to the Freshman Frontier Program, that's still there. https://www.marquette.edu/ffp/
Thankfully restored after its was Pilarzed.
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It’s not the same FFP.
FFP before, as we all know, was to give kids a shot at attending MU who wouldn’t normally get in. It was a chance to enroll early for a couple summer classes and get used to college life and get acclimated with MU.
Now it’s for kids who want to get a head start on college and could’ve easily gotten into MU without FFP.
I’m a proud alum of FFP and the fact that it’s gone is a travesty
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It’s not the same FFP.
FFP before, as we all know, was to give kids a shot at attending MU who wouldn’t normally get in. It was a chance to enroll early for a couple summer classes and get used to college life and get acclimated with MU.
Now it’s for kids who want to get a head start on college and could’ve easily gotten into MU without FFP.
I’m a proud alum of FFP and the fact that it’s gone is a travesty
I don't think the bolded is entirely accurate. Sure Marquette admits the students prior to them attending the program (the marketplace pretty much demands they do that), but this program is pushed for those who are on the academic margins. I mean, it is run by the same people who deal with students who have academic issues during the year.
You just can't run the same programs you did decades ago without changing them.
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VERY SAD DAY IN MARQUETTE HISTORY.
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29 years. Never surrender.
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This is why Golden Eagles is so laothed. It represents nothing of our school or our geographic area. Hilltoppers, Explorers or Golden Avalanche would have been much better to align with our "independent brand".
[/quote
This.
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29 years. Never surrender.
I don't see anything for 2021. You're slipping mate.
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MU has a proud history of changing its nickname. Next year, after 30 years, we should change again.
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To go from Warriors to Golden Eagles. Yikes.
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To go from Warriors to the Gold to Golden Eagles. Yikes.
FTFY can't forget the process!
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FTFY can't forget the process!
Warriors to Golden Eagles to Gold to Golden Eagles.
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Warriors to Golden Eagles to Gold to Golden Eagles.
First Warrior ready to go! Pre-game vs Notre Dame ‘82 or ‘83
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They should change it to Dentists
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They should change it to Dentists
Given the rampant crime around campus we hear so much about, this fits.
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They should change it to Dentists
Thought we were trying to get less offensive.
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I'm still holding out for a return to warriors, but with an equestrian student dressed up as Joan of Arc astride a big horse, clad in chain mail and holding a lance when riding out onto the court. She would scare the crap out of opponents during timeouts. And if Cooley was afraid of a little bat, just think what would happen if a horse was bearing down on him. He'd have to rush back to the locker room and change his underwear.
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MU has a proud history of changing its nickname. Next year, after 30 years, we should change again.
Cannot wait until we change to the TikTokkers
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Dentists attract the wrong element.
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Dentists attract the wrong element.
fluorine?
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Thought we were trying to get less offensive.
+1
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They should change it to Dentists
Carnivores has a nice ring to it
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They should change it to Dentists
Let's go Yankers, let's go!
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I'm still holding out for a return to warriors, but with an equestrian student dressed up as Joan of Arc astride a big horse, clad in chain mail and holding a lance when riding out onto the court. She would scare the crap out of opponents during timeouts. And if Cooley was afraid of a little bat, just think what would happen if a horse was bearing down on him. He'd have to rush back to the locker room and change his underwear.
Dressed as St Joan of Arc?
Why not Lady Godiva?!
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Let's go Yankers, let's go!
https://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2001/07/18
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Dressed as St Joan of Arc?
Why not Lady Godiva?!
Only if you promise to ride out pregame.
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https://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2001/07/18
Still my favorite comic of all time after Calvin and Hobbes. Bucky is so brilliantly written. "As such..."
I'm still holding out for a return to warriors, but with an equestrian student dressed up as Joan of Arc astride a big horse, clad in chain mail and holding a lance when riding out onto the court. She would scare the crap out of opponents during timeouts. And if Cooley was afraid of a little bat, just think what would happen if a horse was bearing down on him. He'd have to rush back to the locker room and change his underwear.
While entirely implausible and unrealistic, especially an indoor basketball arena, but a whole dramatic Medieval Times entrance with the horse riding around the corner after the lights drop, just before the introductions sounds INCREDIBLE.
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Still my favorite comic of all time after Calvin and Hobbes. Bucky is so brilliantly written. "As such..."
While entirely implausible and unrealistic, especially an indoor basketball arena, but a whole dramatic Medieval Times entrance with the horse riding around the corner after the lights drop, just before the introductions sounds INCREDIBLE.
Screw plausibility and realism. If we can get a basketball court made that can handle the horse, are you in?
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I'm still holding out for a return to warriors, but with an equestrian student dressed up as Joan of Arc astride a big horse, clad in chain mail and holding a lance when riding out onto the court. She would scare the crap out of opponents during timeouts. And if Cooley was afraid of a little bat, just think what would happen if a horse was bearing down on him. He'd have to rush back to the locker room and change his underwear.
I've always been a big fan of the St. Joan of Arc Warriors idea. Would have been a much better idea than switching to Golden Eagles (though I don't know if the world was ready for a female primary mascot yet). Unfortunately, they went with Golden Eagles. And Golden Eagles we will stay.
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Marquette may not always been Golden Eagles, but Marquette will never return to Warriors.
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time to move on from this. it aint comin back. ppl act like we had the best possible name and now have the worst or somthin
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time to move on from this. it aint comin back. ppl act like we had the best possible name and now have the worst or somthin
That's pretty dang close to accurate.
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And scoop is coming up on sweet 16.
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Marquette Mopes.
1. Alliteration works in nicknames.
2. Mope Squad on Scoop would be happy they were thrown a bone.
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Marquette Mopes.
1. Alliteration works in nicknames.
2. Mope Squad on Scoop would be happy they were thrown a bone.
I don’t think you guys need a bone thrown to you
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Marquette may not always been Golden Eagles, but Marquette will never return to Warriors.
O ye of little faith.
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I don’t think you guys need a bone thrown to you
2 of 10
Expect something at least a little clever from the Mopes’ #1 spokesperson. Sad.
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2 of 10
Expect something at least a little clever from the Mopes’ #1 spokesperson. Sad.
I’ll do better on the new message board
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I’ll do better on the new message board
Scoop Social?
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Some mopes were upset that not everybody agreed with them.
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First Warrior ready to go! Pre-game vs Notre Dame ‘82 or ‘83
Having not been at MU when the First Warrior was there, was the reception really as negative as I’ve read it was? Seems that if it worked out we’d still be the Warriors.
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Having not been at MU when the First Warrior was there, was the reception really as negative as I’ve read it was? Seems that if it worked out we’d still be the Warriors.
Yes, students booed while he performed.
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Neva happen now. MU has gone all woke, aina?
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Neva happen now. MU has gone all woke, aina?
Basic human decency is 'woke' now.
Not sure what that makes you, but I think you can figure it out.
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Basic human decency is 'woke' now.
Not sure what that makes you, but I think you can figure it out.
I'd like to think there's some ground between decent human being and "woke" with names such as warriors, chiefs, and Indians.
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Neva happen now. MU has gone all woke, aina?
Woke! 😂😂
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Woke! 😂😂
He has never been awake....
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Basic human decency is 'woke' now.
Not sure what that makes you, but I think you can figure it out.
Being OK with the nickname “Warriors” means one stands against “basic human decency”? LMFAO. You couldn’t have made 4ever’s point better if you tried.
Crystal clear what that makes you, no figuring out necessary.
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Being OK with the nickname “Warriors” means one stands against “basic human decency”? LMFAO. You couldn’t have made 4ever’s point better if you tried.
Crystal clear what that makes you, no figuring out necessary.
Yeah you'll don't like real history, we know.
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Yeah you'll don't like real history, we know.
Evidently “you’ll don’t like” real English.
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Evidently “you’ll don’t like” real English.
You would use you all (you'll). Reality is MU tried to stay with the Native American theme of Warrior and it backfired.
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You would use you all (you'll). Reality is MU tried to stay with the Native American theme of Warrior and it backfired.
You’ll = you will
Y’all = you all
But yes, trying to make native imagery “respectable” is what caused the loss of the name.
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Having not been at MU when the First Warrior was there, was the reception really as negative as I’ve read it was? Seems that if it worked out we’d still be the Warriors.
…was my housemate at MU for my jr & sr years, had a lot of fun with the role for his four years at Marquette, and was quite outspoken with MU in support of remaining Warriors. I won’t mention his name since I don’t have permission (suppose you can easily look it up) but he’s a great guy, served in the military for 20 yrs including a tour in Iraq, and is quite successful. That picture was at Schroeder Hall, 10-north.
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Basic human decency is 'woke' now.
Not sure what that makes you, but I think you can figure it out.
spare us your bs
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You’ll = you will
Y’all = you all
But yes, trying to make native imagery “respectable” is what caused the loss of the name.
Cool
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spare us your bs
Cool
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…was my housemate at MU for my jr & sr years, had a lot of fun with the role for his four years at Marquette, and was quite outspoken with MU in support of remaining Warriors. I won’t mention his name since I don’t have permission (suppose you can easily look it up) but he’s a great guy, served in the military for 20 yrs including a tour in Iraq, and is quite successful. That picture was at Schroeder Hall, 10-north.
They did an article including his full heritage, including tribal name.
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Cool
Cool? That's such a woke thing to say.
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Cool? That's such a woke thing to say.
And nice
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…was my housemate at MU for my jr & sr years, had a lot of fun with the role for his four years at Marquette, and was quite outspoken with MU in support of remaining Warriors. I won’t mention his name since I don’t have permission (suppose you can easily look it up) but he’s a great guy, served in the military for 20 yrs including a tour in Iraq, and is quite successful. That picture was at Schroeder Hall, 10-north.
Thanks for the info there. I read one interview with the individual who was the model for the warrior silhouette logo and he was in favor of changing it because he didn’t like his likeness on merch like boxers. Were there more than one students who portrayed the First Warrior?
Obviously it’s a moot point, but for you old timers (I was never a warrior at MU) would you have accepted an amorphous creature such as an improved Bleuteaux like mascot with just the Warriors nickname? Kind of like X’s Blue Blob? Would Bleauteaux work today?
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I'm still holding out for a return to warriors, but with an equestrian student dressed up as Joan of Arc astride a big horse, clad in chain mail and holding a lance when riding out onto the court. She would scare the crap out of opponents during timeouts. And if Cooley was afraid of a little bat, just think what would happen if a horse was bearing down on him. He'd have to rush back to the locker room and change his underwear.
If you saw the highlights of the SMU game last night you’d have seen having a horse on the court isn’t a great idea.
https://sports.yahoo.com/navy-smu-game-delayed-several-minutes-after-pony-mascot-defecates-on-field-032646202.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANiuf5roalemUSY3SY8F3MI5lNcI_rMXWvlE02wfoNwx1I1KfWqTWjrIh8h_124fgzltcf13tshm6KMUSqlbtY0V49a8PdaEF3VYS6BCYjD2fV0GYEQySVVn_N44HEXCGefimEyVf-KK1yRHNBa4Z03TJqy1sOJYZLYKLs1RzAiF
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Obviously it’s a moot point, but for you old timers (I was never a warrior at MU)
We believe you Cheeks!
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Basic human decency is 'woke' now.
Not sure what that makes you, but I think you can figure it out.
"basic human decency is woke"??
is that like taking millions of dollars meant for "the cause" and buying mansions and paying exorbitant salaries to your peeps? is this considered "human decency"??
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2020/07/21/marquette-first-warrior-mark-denning-now-advocates-mascot-changes/5449879002/
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Thank you for that.
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You’ll = you will
Y’all = you all
Newsie slept through the 2nd grade. Got a one year jump on the Big Guy.
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Newsie slept through the 2nd grade. Got a one year jump on the Big Guy.
Welp, English is not my first language. But as I recall that is how they spelled it in Virginia when I was in 9th grade. I'm just a sorry ass woke minority.
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Welp, English is not my first language. But as I recall that is how they spelled it in Virginia when I was in 9th grade. I'm just a sorry ass woke minority.
Go back to the country you came from!
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Go back to the country you came from!
Hi chick, you're back or still away?
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"basic human decency is woke"??
is that like taking millions of dollars meant for "the cause" and buying mansions and paying exorbitant salaries to your peeps? is this considered "human decency"??
You'd have to ask Bannon about that scenario
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Evidently “you’ll don’t like” real English.
First post: defends 4ever
Next post: Criticizes someone's English
Can't make this crape up
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First post: defends 4ever
Next post: Criticizes someone's English
Can't make this crape up
Crape? LOL
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Crape? LOL
I guess you are unfamiliar with Scoop's filter as well.
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I guess you are unfamiliar with Scoop's filter as well.
Oh, crap!
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Oh, crap!
Sh ite even. But anything that works to detract from your hypocrisy I guess.
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"basic human decency is woke"??
is that like taking millions of dollars meant for "the cause" and buying mansions and paying exorbitant salaries to your peeps? is this considered "human decency"??
Buy Large Mansions.
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Here ya go ...
(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/10/kanye-black-lives-matter-copy.jpg)
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Thanks for the info there. I read one interview with the individual who was the model for the warrior silhouette logo and he was in favor of changing it because he didn’t like his likeness on merch like boxers. Were there more than one students who portrayed the First Warrior?
Obviously it’s a moot point, but for you old timers (I was never a warrior at MU) would you have accepted an amorphous creature such as an improved Bleuteaux like mascot with just the Warriors nickname? Kind of like X’s Blue Blob? Would Bleauteaux work today?
in Marquette’s university seal is a Native American in a canoe with the explorer Marquette. Something similar to the attached pic. Should that be dropped? I’d say no…that’s an accurate depiction of what took place at the time. Bravo to MU for not changing that. I understand Marquette’s past imagery around Warriors made it tricky to keep ‘Warriors’ as the nickname. But, the options presented were pathetic. Golden Eagles? Please. Not sure what would have worked…maybe retain Warriors with no mascot. Do we need one? Regardless, Warriors / Marquette is forever a footnote.
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in Marquette’s university seal is a Native American in a canoe with the explorer Marquette. Something similar to the attached pic. Should that be dropped? I’d say no…that’s an accurate depiction of what took place at the time. Bravo to MU for not changing that. I understand Marquette’s past imagery around Warriors made it tricky to keep ‘Warriors’ as the nickname. But, the options presented were pathetic. Golden Eagles? Please. Not sure what would have worked…maybe retain Warriors with no mascot. Do we need one? Regardless, Warriors / Marquette is forever a footnote.
Who wants to break the news?
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Here ya go ...
(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/10/kanye-black-lives-matter-copy.jpg)
… struggling with white guilt, MU82? Have a couple Oreo cookies and listen to some Ye. You’ll feel better.
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Who wants to break the news?
’forever a footnote’ needs explanation?
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… struggling with white guilt, MU82? Have a couple Oreo cookies and listen to some Ye. You’ll feel better.
Uh-huh. Financially comfortable white men like us still can't catch a break in America.
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in Marquette’s university seal is a Native American in a canoe with the explorer Marquette. Something similar to the attached pic. Should that be dropped? I’d say no…that’s an accurate depiction of what took place at the time. Bravo to MU for not changing that. I understand Marquette’s past imagery around Warriors made it tricky to keep ‘Warriors’ as the nickname. But, the options presented were pathetic. Golden Eagles? Please. Not sure what would have worked…maybe retain Warriors with no mascot. Do we need one? Regardless, Warriors / Marquette is forever a footnote.
You behind
https://today.marquette.edu/2022/02/board-of-trustees-approves-updated-university-seal-that-honors-catholic-jesuit-tradition-and-indigenous-nations/
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Hard to believe he missed an opportunity for outrage.
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You behind
https://today.marquette.edu/2022/02/board-of-trustees-approves-updated-university-seal-that-honors-catholic-jesuit-tradition-and-indigenous-nations/
I will admit…I definitely missed that.
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Hard to believe he missed an opportunity for outrage.
It’s never too late to be outraged and a victim
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Sh ite even. But anything that works to detract from your hypocrisy I guess.
LOL. Anything that works to distract us from the fact that you’re making sh!t up (again), I guess.
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LOL. Anything that works to distract us from the fact that you’re making sh!t up (again), I guess.
First post, in defense or 4ever:
Being OK with the nickname “Warriors” means one stands against “basic human decency”? LMFAO. You couldn’t have made 4ever’s point better if you tried.
Crystal clear what that makes you, no figuring out necessary.
Very next post, criticizing Newsie’s English:
Evidently “you’ll don’t like” real English.
Buy yeah, it's not that you are a hypocrite, it's that I'm making things up!
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First post, in defense or 4ever:Very next post, criticizing Newsie’s English:Buy yeah, it's not that you are a hypocrite, it's that I'm making things up!
I didn’t defend 4ever’s English, I defended his very obvious point - (to all but the bat crap crazy) - that supporting a nickname like Warriors, Braves, Chiefs, etc., did not make one an enemy of basic common decency.
My mocking Newsie’s English and your spelling had zero, zilch, nothing to do with that point. It was just a bit of fun. So there was no connection, except in your confused head, between the two. Your attempt to turn it into an hypocrisy was silly. Your doubling down on it went beyond silly. FFS, quit while you’re behind.
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in Marquette’s university seal is a Native American in a canoe with the explorer Marquette. Something similar to the attached pic. Should that be dropped? I’d say no…that’s an accurate depiction of what took place at the time. Bravo to MU for not changing that. I understand Marquette’s past imagery around Warriors made it tricky to keep ‘Warriors’ as the nickname. But, the options presented were pathetic. Golden Eagles? Please. Not sure what would have worked…maybe retain Warriors with no mascot. Do we need one? Regardless, Warriors / Marquette is forever a footnote.
Outside of the fact that you missed that MU dropped this image, how on earth would you know if this is an accurate depiction?
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Outside of the fact that you missed that MU dropped this image, how on earth would you know if this is an accurate depiction?
Those writing history never include fables to show themselves in a better light.
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Being OK with the nickname “Warriors” means one stands against “basic human decency”? LMFAO. You couldn’t have made 4ever’s point better if you tried.
Crystal clear what that makes you, no figuring out necessary.
Racism is a strange hill to die on. So is caring about a mascot that hasn't been a part of the program in almost 30 years.
Mascots are for kids... you do know that, don't you?
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in Marquette’s university seal is a Native American in a canoe with the explorer Marquette. Something similar to the attached pic. Should that be dropped? I’d say no…that’s an accurate depiction of what took place at the time. Bravo to MU for not changing that. I understand Marquette’s past imagery around Warriors made it tricky to keep ‘Warriors’ as the nickname. But, the options presented were pathetic. Golden Eagles? Please. Not sure what would have worked…maybe retain Warriors with no mascot. Do we need one? Regardless, Warriors / Marquette is forever a footnote.
Hold on a second, are you seriously saying that a painting done in 1869 is an accurate depiction of an event that occurred TWO HUNDRED years earlier? Were you around to see the events that occurred? Yikes, man.
Also, Marquette changed the seal.
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I didn’t defend 4ever’s English, I defended his very obvious point - (to all but the bat crap crazy) - that supporting a nickname like Warriors, Braves, Chiefs, etc., did not make one an enemy of basic common decency.
My mocking Newsie’s English and your spelling had zero, zilch, nothing to do with that point. It was just a bit of fun. So there was no connection, except in your confused head, between the two. Your attempt to turn it into an hypocrisy was silly. Your doubling down on it went beyond silly. FFS, quit while you’re behind.
Sure it does. It means you don't respect people or what they would or would not like to be called.
Basic human decency. I guess it's a bridge too far for you though.
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For my birthday, my son bought me a great t-shirt commemorating the 2003 Final Four run for the Marquette Golden Eagles. In the middle of the shirt is the Golden Eagles symbol MU featured back then.
There was a time when I wouldn't have worn it because, dammit, we were Warriors back in my day!
But reality is reality. They were the Golden Eagles when they made that great run in 2003, and people my son's age (mid-30s) and younger have only known us as the Golden Eagles.
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That ship sailed almost as long ago as the Titanic.
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That ship sailed almost as long ago as the Titanic.
Some people love living lives as victims
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Sure it does. It means you don't respect people or what they would or would not like to be called.
Basic human decency. I guess it's a bridge too far for you though.
You disrespect actual people here all the time. And you call them degrading names no one would like to be called.
But you’re all about people’s feelings when names meant to honor rather than degrade make some of those folks feel like victims.
Now there’s some real, first class hypocrisy - so typical, so sad!
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Some people love living lives as victims
Some people lump the world into two groups - oppressors and victims - based on gender, race and other accidents of birth. They are constantly guilty about being one or angry about being the other. The most pathetic of the guilty are angry on top of their guilt - on behalf of the groups they condemn to a life of victimhood.
Others view everyone they meet as individuals of equal worth who deserve to be treated as such.
For those who choose the former I feel genuinely sorry.
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You disrespect actual people here all the time. And you call them degrading names no one would like to be called.
But you’re all about people’s feelings when names meant to honor rather than degrade make some of those folks feel like victims.
Now there’s some real, first class hypocrisy - so typical, so sad!
Because individuals who don't deserve respect don't get it. You and your old nerds literally hunted down my name and history, and tried to get another poster here fired. I've called you guys old, nerdy, or dumb. Toughen up, snowflake. Please explain why any of you deserve any respect. You went from a decent person on this board to a total jackass in under five years. Read your post history. Is that the person you want to be? It's probably time for some self reflection so you don't end up spiraling like rocket. 4elder is just a dude doing a character (sad in its own way) but you're just being you. And right now, it's not a great look.
The 'meant to honor' BS is exactly that. BS. It's racism plain and simple.
I know you're getting older, but this isn't difficult to understand.
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Some people lump the world into two groups - oppressors and victims - based on gender, race and other accidents of birth. They are constantly guilty about being one or angry about being the other. The most pathetic of the guilty are angry on top of their guilt - on behalf of the groups they condemn to a life of victimhood.
Others view everyone they meet as individuals of equal worth who deserve to be treated as such.
For those who choose the former I feel genuinely sorry.
Says a lot from my perspective....very simplistic unrealistic view of the real world.
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Says a lot from my perspective....very simplistic unrealistic view of the real world.
Yeah, life and relationships are way more gray than that.
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You behind
https://today.marquette.edu/2022/02/board-of-trustees-approves-updated-university-seal-that-honors-catholic-jesuit-tradition-and-indigenous-nations/
Okay, I am belatedly outraged.
I knew they changed the seal, but did not know they dropped "Numen Flamenco" ("God and the River Dance") for "Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam" ("To the Greater Glory of Advertising Majors")
Fortunately, despite my outrage, I am too lazy to change my signature.
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Okay, I am belatedly outraged.
I knew they changed the seal, but did not know they dropped "Numen Flamenco" ("God and the River Dance") for "Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam" ("To the Greater Glory of Advertising Majors")
Fortunately, despite my outrage, I am too lazy to change my signature.
Understandable
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I always thought it referenced a Seinfeld character's pink bird.
Newman flamingo.
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I will admit…I definitely missed that.
Yep. 13 students were offended, so…
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Yep. 13 students were offended, so…
Marquette is great in leading the way about such things. Better to have changed it now at the first signs rather than have to explain why it wasn't changed the next time someone is offended.
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Yep. Really need to study up on Jesuit teachings and philosophy.
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Because individuals who don't deserve respect don't get it. You and your old nerds literally hunted down my name and history, and tried to get another poster here fired. I've called you guys old, nerdy, or dumb. Toughen up, snowflake. Please explain why any of you deserve any respect. You went from a decent person on this board to a total jackass in under five years. Read your post history. Is that the person you want to be? It's probably time for some self reflection so you don't end up spiraling like rocket. 4elder is just a dude doing a character (sad in its own way) but you're just being you. And right now, it's not a great look.
The 'meant to honor' BS is exactly that. BS. It's racism plain and simple.
I know you're getting older, but this isn't difficult to understand.
LOL. The idea that I “hunted down your name and history” is 100% a lie. I have no idea what your name is or what you do other than what I’ve read (from yourself and others) on this board. The idea that I ever tried to get anyone (on this board or anywhere else) fired from their job is likewise 100% a lie.
Need to judge people you don’t even know to feel good about yourself? That’s sad enough.
Need to lie about people to justify your judgements? That’s even worse.
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LOL. The idea that I “hunted down your name and history” is 100% a lie. I have no idea what your name is or what you do other than what I’ve read (from yourself and others) on this board. The idea that I ever tried to get anyone (on this board or anywhere else) fired from their job is likewise 100% a lie.
Need to judge people you don’t even know to feel good about yourself? That’s sad enough.
Need to lie about people to justify your judgements? That’s even worse.
I said you and your friends here. The people you surround yourself with. The dudes you've met in person and defend breathlessly in your posts. Pay attention, goldfish.
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Yep. Really need to study up on Jesuit teachings and philosophy.
Is there such a thing?
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One of my favorite books is 'The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything' by James Martin. It comes as close as anything to spelling out the Jesuit ethos.
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One of my favorite books is 'The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything' by James Martin. It comes as close as anything to spelling out the Jesuit ethos.
I was just being sarcastic but thanks
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Scoop Lawyers: What is the statute of limitations on outrage?
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Scoop Lawyers: What is the statute of limitations on outrage?
The older you get, the longer the statute. Mostly because you’re always outraged
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(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/029/970/trainn.jpg?1260328965)
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(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/029/970/trainn.jpg?1260328965)
Par for the course
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Thanks for sharing. I’m not sure this subject has been discussed previously. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
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45 years ago today'Why bring that up now?': IU's Kent Benson was punched by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in NBA debut (https://www.muscoop.com/'Why bring that up now?': IU's Kent Benson was punched by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in NBA debut)
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Says a lot from my perspective....very simplistic unrealistic view of the real world.
Newsie
I think a life based on principle IS pretty simple - not simplistic or unrealistic - but simple.
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Newsie
I think a life based on principle IS pretty simple - not simplistic or unrealistic - but simple.
Not how it works trust me
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Newsie
I think a life based on principle IS pretty simple - not simplistic or unrealistic - but simple.
I think there is truth in this. I suspect our choices of principles may be slightly different.
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I think their is truth in this. I suspect our choices of principles may be slightly different.
Maybe, but I think people can sometimes disagree on solutions even when guided by the same or similar principles.
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The 'meant to honor' BS is exactly that. BS. It's racism plain and simple
ding-ding-ding-ding
ya gotta use your strongest point early and often man-what took ya so long??
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Particularly potent new cylinder of nitrous, I see.
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The 'meant to honor' BS is exactly that. BS. It's racism plain and simple
ding-ding-ding-ding
ya gotta use your strongest point early and often man-what took ya so long??
Giving this a 9 out of 10
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Giving this a 9 out of 10
I'll give it an 8.5, no need to highlight racism, we all know.
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The 'meant to honor' BS is exactly that. BS. It's racism plain and simple
ding-ding-ding-ding
ya gotta use your strongest point early and often man-what took ya so long??
(https://cdm16280.contentdm.oclc.org/digital//iiif/2/p16280coll1:7271/full/605,/0/default.jpg)
If you don't think this thing is racist and is meant to honor, you're dumber than I thought you were. And you're more racist than I thought you were.
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(https://cdm16280.contentdm.oclc.org/digital//iiif/2/p16280coll1:7271/full/605,/0/default.jpg)
If you don't think this thing is racist and is meant to honor, you're dumber than I thought you were. And you're more racist than I thought you were.
Very fine people still love Willie Wampum.
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(https://cdm16280.contentdm.oclc.org/digital//iiif/2/p16280coll1:7271/full/605,/0/default.jpg)
If you don't think this thing is racist and is meant to honor, you're dumber than I thought you were. And you're more racist than I thought you were.
That mascot made it just ten years from 1961-1971, with the Voting Rights Act happening in the middle of this. Retired for the very reason you state, and supported by many posters here as students I am guessing. The Warriors name lasted 22 more years with various mascots more tastefully done (one could argue) or fully balls that weren't?
The point remains: Is it the name or that paper mache costume that is the issue? Or for most, was it the non-engaged, non-truthful way the MU admin handled this and many other university issues?
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/nickname/willie_wampum
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That mascot made it just ten years from 1961-1971, with the Voting Rights Act happening in the middle of this. Retired for the very reason you state, and supported by many posters here as students I am guessing. The Warriors name lasted 22 more years with various mascots more tastefully done (one could argue) or fully balls that weren't?
The point remains: Is it the name or that paper mache costume that is the issue? Or for most, was it the non-engaged, non-truthful way the MU admin handled this and many other university issues?
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/nickname/willie_wampum
All valid topics, but the mascot and use of the nickname with Native American imagery was racist. Perhaps not entirely intentionally by everyone involved, but there is a good reason the nickname was changed. The motivations of the university's decision to change or it's methods are irrelevant.
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That mascot made it just ten years from 1961-1971, with the Voting Rights Act happening in the middle of this. Retired for the very reason you state, and supported by many posters here as students I am guessing. The Warriors name lasted 22 more years with various mascots more tastefully done (one could argue) or fully balls that weren't?
The point remains: Is it the name or that paper mache costume that is the issue? Or for most, was it the non-engaged, non-truthful way the MU admin handled this and many other university issues?
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/nickname/willie_wampum
Whether the university botched the name change (it did) doesn't make the name change bad.
And if it were the way the admin handled this that were the "real" issue here, nobody would be here discussing it today. The university has messed up lots of things over the past three decades. This is the only one people still obsess over.
I mean, when was the last time you read the name Assata Shakur here? Where's the "x years ago today" posts about Jodi O'Brien?
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'Warriors' is not an inherently racist word. MU's history with that name certainly has imagery that, in hindsight, can certainly be called racially insensitive.
It would have been difficult to completely purge the negative associations if the name was kept.
Yes, if something like Joan of Arc had been the imagery all along, MU would likely have kept 'Warriors. ' It didn't happen. The Golden Eagles mascot is approaching middle age.
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All valid topics, but the mascot and use of the nickname with Native American imagery was racist. Perhaps not entirely intentionally by everyone involved, but there is a good reason the nickname was changed. The motivations of the university's decision to change or it's methods are irrelevant.
It was clearly racist and was voted at the time as such. Many will disagree on the process over the next generation plus that followed, however, and mistrust reached much deeper than a nickname change.
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I wonder what our mascot would have been if the Boston Braves relocated somewhere else than Milwaukee
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Fair.
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I've said this many times....
If they had gotten rid of the native imagery when they got rid of Willie Wampum, Marquette would still be Warriors today. The University's well intentioned desire to stick with such imagery in a "respectful" manner is why the name went away.
And I used to be fired about it. But I stopped caring awhile ago. It's been a generation - time to move on.
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Whether the university botched the name change (it did) doesn't make the name change bad.
And if it were the way the admin handled this that were the "real" issue here, nobody would be here discussing it today. The university has messed up lots of things over the past three decades. This is the only one people still obsess over.
I mean, when was the last time you read the name Assata Shakur here? Where's the "x years ago today" posts about Jodi O'Brien?
If there is on tradition MU has is that as a university we don’t have actual traditions.
At least we didn’t have to move a rock. We’ve go that going for us.
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I've said this many times....
If they had gotten rid of the native imagery when they got rid of Willie Wampum, Marquette would still be Warriors today. The University's well intentioned desire to stick with such imagery in a "respectful" manner is why the name went away.
And I used to be fired about it. But I stopped caring awhile ago. It's been a generation - time to move on.
my assumption is that MU has some pretty smart people ("experts") making decisions, yes? if they really wanted to keep the nickname, as the majority seemed to voice, then why didn't they just change the imagery?
i'm going to answer that one pat, for $100-why MU (ivory tower) did not want to keep the warrior nickname. that is why this topic continues to be discussed. the "unwashed" did NOT want the name changed while the "experts" had already made their decision.
so the "experts" put it to a vote in a (dog & pony)show of (sheecogo style) "democracy". i may be wrong, but despite them not even putting warriors on the ballot, i believe the write-ins-warriors won anyway. might as well have voted in person and dipped our fingers in purple ink. hey, sadam, putin and kim jong-unfatso have never lost an election either, eyn'a?
and that is the rest of the story
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my assumption is that MU has some pretty smart people ("experts") making decisions, yes? if they really wanted to keep the nickname, as the majority seemed to voice, then why didn't they just change the imagery?
i'm going to answer that one pat, for $100-why MU (ivory tower) did not want to keep the warrior nickname. that is why this topic continues to be discussed. the "unwashed" did NOT want the name changed while the "experts" had already made their decision.
so the "experts" put it to a vote in a (dog & pony)show of (sheecogo style) "democracy". i may be wrong, but despite them not even putting warriors on the ballot, i believe the write-ins-warriors won anyway. might as well have voted in person and dipped our fingers in purple ink. hey, sadam, putin and kim jong-unfatso have never lost an election either, eyn'a?
and that is the rest of the story
This is such incredible work. Yet, I can’t give it a 10 out of 10 due to lack of any ellipsis. So, it’ll be a 9 out of 10.
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my assumption is that MU has some pretty smart people ("experts") making decisions, yes? if they really wanted to keep the nickname, as the majority seemed to voice, then why didn't they just change the imagery?
Because 30 years ago, Marquette wasn't being run by pretty smart people who wanted to keep the nickname.
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What about the rumor that someone (Potawotami?) offered a large payment and some land (Valley Fields) to MU in exchange for the promise to drop the Warriors name forever? That story keeps coming up, but is it true?
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What about the rumor that someone (Potawotami?) offered a large payment and some land (Valley Fields) to MU in exchange for the promise to drop the Warriors name forever? That story keeps coming up, but is it true?
that's always been out there and hasn't (and probably never will be) confirmed. The more likely story, which I read in an article about mascot changes in the MULS Sports Law Review, is the Native Americans the Jesuits worked with on a reservation in South Dakota expressed their opinion that the use of "Warrior" was offensive to the NA population and that's what was the what spurred Fr. DiUlio and other MU leaders to make the change.
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What about the rumor that someone (Potawotami?) offered a large payment and some land (Valley Fields) to MU in exchange for the promise to drop the Warriors name forever? That story keeps coming up, but is it true?
#donedeal
And they continue to swap properties to this day.
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that's always been out there and hasn't (and probably never will be) confirmed. The more likely story, which I read in an article about mascot changes in the MULS Sports Law Review, is the Native Americans the Jesuits worked with on a reservation in South Dakota expressed their opinion that the use of "Warrior" was offensive to the NA population and that's what was the what spurred Fr. DiUlio and other MU leaders to make the change.
MOPES